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Texans DE J.J. Watt undergoes back surgery (out for season 9/27)

TexansSeminole said:
I'm not really one to get insider info nor set up to recieve it, given I don't live in Houston. But, I got this information from someone I know 100% isn't lying or exaggerating. How it plays out, I don't know, but it doesn't sound good.
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I've got 2 questions.

1. Does your source live here in Houston?

2. Does your source work for the Texans?
 
Not sure if the 'JJ is out for the year or an indefinable time' is true or not but the odds of the Texans winning the Bowl was 45-1 a couple weeks ago.
It was 55-1 three days ago and jumped to 60-1 today.

Read into that all you want, but Vegas knows it's shyt.
 
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Watching the 6 o'clock news right now and a mome t ago it said JJ posted a pic on Instagram with a football in hand with the caption of 'SOON'.. so, who knows.
 
TexansSeminole said:
I have it on good authority that the disk is still severely herniated and will require another surgery. What that means as far as rehab is unknown to me, but I would assume 6 weeks at least. Take the information for what you will.
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My mama knows the same guy. He also told my mama that Kaitlyn Jenner is a women. I think he just needs some quality H2O.
 
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I would rather him be out for the yr than comeback too early and ruin his career.

I think he will make it back but probably be a shell of himself. Rarely do guys make it all the way back from this type of back injury. See: Shaun Cody
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Rapoports's report spread like wild fire throughout the sports media. He needs to use some common sense in evaluating his sources' information. You don't go from a anti-gravity treadmill to football practice in 1 week.
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You're only saying that because no-one ever has!!! :)
 
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Texian said:
Anytime they open you up and take body parts out of your back I don't think you will ever be the same person you were before.
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I normally would tend to agree but with the combination of JJ being a hard worker and the advances is modern surgery, I would not bet against JJ making a strong and convincing come back and also him coming back to play the first game of the season.

I do fear JJ rushing it too soon but I will have faith he knows his body well enoough to make an instant impact while coming back sooner than expected. I hope I am right.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
So that this thread again is not derailed, I'll answer your question in this thread in relationship to Watt. Tiger has had at least 3 surgeries on his left knee. This took its toll on his golf mechanics, with expected compensatory maladjustments to his core............almost assuredly leading to his back problems. He's had 2 microdiscectomies, like JJ's. If you think of a vertebral disc as a jelly donut, you can sort of picture how a disc works. The outside dough is a solid containment wall for the jelly within the center. If you place too much pressure on the top of the jelly roll, it will create a tear somewhere around its perimeter. The jelly will then protrude through the defect placing pressure on the nerve which then in turn causing pain over the nerve's distribution. The microdiscectomy simply removes the portion of "jelly" that is bulging beyond the disc wall, and the wall is then repaired with a suture or two. It typically relieves the nerve pressure symptoms, but has nothing to do with any associate back pains or the reason the disc herniated/ruptured in the first place. In other words, it is usually a temporary partial fix for the nerve aspect. But the source of the back pain and disc herniation/rupture (vertebral anatomy, inflammation, continued stress placed on the disc) has not been addressed. Once Tiger had undergone his first disc procedure, he should have backed off of any very heavy lifting, especially overhead and dead lifts, because it would recreate the same environment for the jelly donut to be further compressed and subsequently rupture once again, as it did. As Tiger has always been somewhat of a workout warrior, he didn't follow his body's warnings.

And that brings me back to Watt, whose inability to engage in very heavy lifting will be more of a problem than to a golfer. Watt is more likely to worry about losing some of his strength than heeding his body's warning and worrying about the inevitable consequences.

20131113-266257-crandonut8-edit-thumb-625xauto-367560.jpg
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Thnaks for this educated post on back injuries of JJ Watts nature. I learned a lot. You made it hard for me to be optimistic. I will expect the worst but have faith the best case scenario takes place.
 
Sonny said:
Not sure if the 'JJ is out for the year or an indefinable time' is true or not but the odds of the Texans winning the Bowl was 45-1 a couple weeks ago.
It was 55-1 three days ago and jumped to 60-1 today.

Read into that all you want, but Vegas knows it's shyt.
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I have $50 on JJ at 100:1 to win MVP this year. Since making the bet the odds have come down to varying from 25:1 to 60:1 depending on site. Adrian Peterson was also 100:1 following his knee surgery. Shouldn't write off seasons of extremely motivated players returning from injury.
 
Well.. as compelling as that may be... I was just pointing out that if Vegas moved that fast there may have been some credence to the rumor that JJ will have extended issues.
However...
I'm on the 'JJ will be back with a vengeance' train now so, until Dr. Cloak tells me otherwise.... I'm hopeful ANNNND I'm taking my Bowl odds.
 
I'm going to have to go back to last nights game but I swear I heard that JJ had already passed his conditioning test and wanted to play last night but OB nixed the idea and the idea of him returning on his own accord. Something about it's out of his hands and that the Dr's would be the ones saying when he would return.
 
PapaL said:
I'm going to have to go back to last nights game but I swear I heard that JJ had already passed his conditioning test and wanted to play last night but OB nixed the idea and the idea of him returning on his own accord. Something about it's out of his hands and that the Dr's would be the ones saying when he would return.
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Mama told me she heard he had passed his conditioning test and wanted to start practicing on Monday but coach of the fooseball team said you are JJ Watt not Dr Watt, will have to wait until the Dr's release you.
 
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PapaL said:
I'm going to have to go back to last nights game but I swear I heard that JJ had already passed his conditioning test and wanted to play last night but OB nixed the idea and the idea of him returning on his own accord. Something about it's out of his hands and that the Dr's would be the ones saying when he would return.
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I don't know about the conditioning test, but he did say he wanted to play. John Harris kind of dismissed it as JJ can say whatever he wants when he knows the doctors aren't going to let him.
 
It was in pre-game when peanut and the bald dude (Jay Glazer) joined the broadcast in their director chairs. Jay Glazer was the mouthpiece bringing the good news
 
Rich Schmidt said:
It was in pre-game when peanut and the bald dude (Jay Glazer) joined the broadcast in their director chairs. Jay Glazer was the mouthpiece bringing the good news
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Glad I'm not the only one that heard that. Figured it would have been brought up here already. That's a great sign...or the conditioning test is easy. One of the two.
 
They could always "weekend at Bernie's" him - you know. tie one hand and foot to Wilfork and Mercilius... he would probably still be our second best DL.
 
Report: J.J. Watt Passed Conditioning Test; Ready For Practice
http://houston.cbslocal.com/2016/08/29/report-j-j-watt-passed-conditioning-test-ready-for-practice/

Houston (CBS HOUSTON) – The Houston Texans are being cautious with their superstar defensive lineman J.J. Watt. After back surgery that some speculated could keep him out four weeks of the regular season Watt might be back on the practice field this week.

“J.J. Watt, he actually lifted on Friday, passed his conditioning test (Sunday),” Fox Sports’ Jay Glazer said on the pregame show before the Texans beat the Cardinals 34-24 in their third preseason game. “He wants to practice this week. Head coach Bill O’Brien said, ‘hey let’s slow it down.’

“Anybody else, I don’t think they’d be back week 1. J.J. Watt is not like anybody else. I think there is a very strong chance he does play.”

Passing a conditioning test is typically one of the last steps in a player getting back onto the practice field. The Texans really only need to see Watt on the field practicing the week before Week 1 to make sure he’s healthy and ready to go against the Chicago Bears.

Watt has yet to miss a regular season game in his career since he was drafting in 2011, 11th overall by the Texans
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Based on some information I have read here on this forum (mostly from CnD) and read outside of the forum, orthopedic surgeons often look at the option of an epidural steroid injection prior to settling on surgery. It's either been confirmed or heavily implied that JJ had one or several of these prior to his (first) back surgery. I would not be surprised if he recently (last week) had another one of those. CnD would be able to give more information on this possibility and what it means. I believe the consensus is that in elite athletes, the injection tends to last for about 4 months before pain and inflammation is no longer reduced by the injection, if it works at all.

I do not have any additional information, but I would assume that they did an injection in his back and are hoping that it works for him sometime this week, as it takes about a week to kick in to my limited knowledge. My understanding is that it doesn't address the real issue with the back, as it only helps with pain and inflammation, and to continue operating as an elite athlete, or even normal person, with this injury may lead to some or even many compensatory injuries, much like the injuries that JJ sustained last year to his core.

So, is that good news or bad news?
 
TexansSeminole said:
Based on some information I have read here on this forum (mostly from CnD) and read outside of the forum, orthopedic surgeons often look at the option of an epidural steroid injection prior to settling on surgery. It's either been confirmed or heavily implied that JJ had one or several of these prior to his (first) back surgery. I would not be surprised if he recently (last week) had another one of those. CnD would be able to give more information on this possibility and what it means. I believe the consensus is that in elite athletes, the injection tends to last for about 4 months before pain and inflammation is no longer reduced by the injection, if it works at all.

I do not have any additional information, but I would assume that they did an injection in his back and are hoping that it works for him sometime this week, as it takes about a week to kick in to my limited knowledge. My understanding is that it doesn't address the real issue with the back, as it only helps with pain and inflammation, and to continue operating as an elite athlete, or even normal person, with this injury may lead to some or even many compensatory injuries, much like the injuries that JJ sustained last year to his core.

So, is that good news or bad news?
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100% bad news. I, for one, wouldn't be mad if the Texans IR'd (designated for return) jJ. The Texans need him, but not that badly. There's a big difference between playing through pain and playing through injury. The former is admirable, the latter is stupid.
 
TexansSeminole said:
Based on some information I have read here on this forum (mostly from CnD) and read outside of the forum, orthopedic surgeons often look at the option of an epidural steroid injection prior to settling on surgery. It's either been confirmed or heavily implied that JJ had one or several of these prior to his (first) back surgery. I would not be surprised if he recently (last week) had another one of those. CnD would be able to give more information on this possibility and what it means. I believe the consensus is that in elite athletes, the injection tends to last for about 4 months before pain and inflammation is no longer reduced by the injection, if it works at all.

I do not have any additional information, but I would assume that they did an injection in his back and are hoping that it works for him sometime this week, as it takes about a week to kick in to my limited knowledge. My understanding is that it doesn't address the real issue with the back, as it only helps with pain and inflammation, and to continue operating as an elite athlete, or even normal person, with this injury may lead to some or even many compensatory injuries, much like the injuries that JJ sustained last year to his core.

So, is that good news or bad news?
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His surgery should have addressed the cause of his back pain (the removal of the portion of the disc that was irritating his nerve)

I'd be shocked if they gave him an epidural after having surgery. One of the main ideas in rehab is pain free motion. He needs to be able to feel what's going to to determine if he's healing properly. The other thing with the back is making sure he has proper strength and endurance in his core musculature. As he is a freaky athlete, I wouldn't be surprised if he regained this very quickly. He also needs to stop lifting tractor tires lol
 
otisbean said:
His surgery should have addressed the cause of his back pain (the removal of the portion of the disc that was irritating his nerve)

I'd be shocked if they gave him an epidural after having surgery. One of the main ideas in rehab is pain free motion. He needs to be able to feel what's going to to determine if he's healing properly. The other thing with the back is making sure he has proper strength and endurance in his core musculature. As he is a freaky athlete, I wouldn't be surprised if he regained this very quickly. He also needs to stop lifting tractor tires lol
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That's interesting. I've read on multiple sites that an epidural can be used after surgery for pain relief. Is that simply not the case for high level athletes?
 
I looked for JJ on the sidelines yesterday and didn't see him. I gave my binoculars to 4 other people and they couldn't find him either.
 
TexansSeminole said:
That's interesting. I've read on multiple sites that an epidural can be used after surgery for pain relief. Is that simply not the case for high level athletes?
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I'm not a Dr, just a sports performance coach, but I have studied the rehabilitation process quite a bit (you can't produce high level performance in an unhealthy athlete). I can see where initially they would use an epidural to control pain immediately after surgery. About 10 years ago, I had knee surgery. The Dr told me in 2 days my knee would hurt because they had injected a pain killer in my knee and it would wear off in 48hrs. First 2 days after surgery my knee felt great, day 3 it hurt like a SOB, day 4 it felt much better. I can see something like that with a back surgery as well, to help make the patient comfortable during the initial recovery period. If you've ever had a serious back injury, it can be very difficult to get comfortable

However, once you start the rehab process you'd want to be able to feel what's going on in the area. You have to start retraining the core musculature to be able to protect/buttress the spine. The key is pain free exercise, pain would indicate you are over stressing the area. It's a delicate process, you need to regain strength and endurance but you also need to let the repaired tissue heal. If you couldn't feel what's going on because of an epidural, you could be irritating/damaging the repaired area during rehab. Hopefully that makes sense
 
otisbean said:
I'm not a Dr, just a sports performance coach, but I have studied the rehabilitation process quite a bit (you can't produce high level performance in an unhealthy athlete). I can see where initially they would use an epidural to control pain immediately after surgery. About 10 years ago, I had knee surgery. The Dr told me in 2 days my knee would hurt because they had injected a pain killer in my knee and it would wear off in 48hrs. First 2 days after surgery my knee felt great, day 3 it hurt like a SOB, day 4 it felt much better. I can see something like that with a back surgery as well, to help make the patient comfortable during the initial recovery period. If you've ever had a serious back injury, it can be very difficult to get comfortable

However, once you start the rehab process you'd want to be able to feel what's going on in the area. You have to start retraining the core musculature to be able to protect/buttress the spine. The key is pain free exercise, pain would indicate you are over stressing the area. It's a delicate process, you need to regain strength and endurance but you also need to let the repaired tissue heal. If you couldn't feel what's going on because of an epidural, you could be irritating/damaging the repaired area during rehab. Hopefully that makes sense
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Good information, it definitely makes sense.

The reason I brought up the injection is that I do strongly believe what I heard last week regarding the condition of his back. I'm almost certain (99%) that it is accurate. The only thing that I know of that would allow for him to be back at practice without another surgery is an epidural injection. Maybe there are other routes for them to take that would allow him to play without the surgery?

Having said that, I think CnD has said that an injection has about a 50% success rate (in reducing pain and inflammation) the first time around and then the success rate dramatically decreases with each injection after. So, assuming he has already had a number of these, the success rate would be heavily diminished for this go round. Given that information, I do agree that it wouldn't be all that smart to do an injection after his surgery. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean they didn't do it.
 
Posted this in the injury thread but am post it here as well since it may be deleted there.

If Pancakes says it, it must be true!

Count on J.J. Watt and Derek Newton playing in Texans' opener
http://www.houstonchronicle.com/spo...-Watt-and-Derek-Newton-playing-in-9191713.php

The Texans have not made it official, but you can count on defensive end J.J. Watt and right tackle Derek Newton playing in the regular-season opener against Chicago, and left tackle Duane Brown missing the Bears game.
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That's the whole "article".
If Pancakes says it, it must be true!
 
PapaL said:
Posted this in the injury thread but am post it here as well since it may be deleted there.

If Pancakes says it, it must be true!

Count on J.J. Watt and Derek Newton playing in Texans' opener
http://www.houstonchronicle.com/spo...-Watt-and-Derek-Newton-playing-in-9191713.php



That's the whole "article".
If Pancakes says it, it must be true!
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All the talk has been about how much time Watt will miss, I am more concerned about Duane Brown. Not hearing anything and he isn't giving any indications of being ready to play at all this season much less game 1.
 
I am thinking O'Brien and the Texans are putting the information that Watt will be back so teams have to include that in their game plan. Watt probably won't be starting in the first couple of games.
 
TexansSeminole said:
Based on some information I have read here on this forum (mostly from CnD) and read outside of the forum, orthopedic surgeons often look at the option of an epidural steroid injection prior to settling on surgery. It's either been confirmed or heavily implied that JJ had one or several of these prior to his (first) back surgery. I would not be surprised if he recently (last week) had another one of those. CnD would be able to give more information on this possibility and what it means. I believe the consensus is that in elite athletes, the injection tends to last for about 4 months before pain and inflammation is no longer reduced by the injection, if it works at all.

I do not have any additional information, but I would assume that they did an injection in his back and are hoping that it works for him sometime this week, as it takes about a week to kick in to my limited knowledge. My understanding is that it doesn't address the real issue with the back, as it only helps with pain and inflammation, and to continue operating as an elite athlete, or even normal person, with this injury may lead to some or even many compensatory injuries, much like the injuries that JJ sustained last year to his core.

So, is that good news or bad news?
Click to expand...
otisbean said:
I'm not a Dr, just a sports performance coach, but I have studied the rehabilitation process quite a bit (you can't produce high level performance in an unhealthy athlete). I can see where initially they would use an epidural to control pain immediately after surgery. About 10 years ago, I had knee surgery. The Dr told me in 2 days my knee would hurt because they had injected a pain killer in my knee and it would wear off in 48hrs. First 2 days after surgery my knee felt great, day 3 it hurt like a SOB, day 4 it felt much better. I can see something like that with a back surgery as well, to help make the patient comfortable during the initial recovery period. If you've ever had a serious back injury, it can be very difficult to get comfortable

However, once you start the rehab process you'd want to be able to feel what's going on in the area. You have to start retraining the core musculature to be able to protect/buttress the spine. The key is pain free exercise, pain would indicate you are over stressing the area. It's a delicate process, you need to regain strength and endurance but you also need to let the repaired tissue heal. If you couldn't feel what's going on because of an epidural, you could be irritating/damaging the repaired area during rehab. Hopefully that makes sense
Click to expand...

TexansSeminole said:
Good information, it definitely makes sense.

The reason I brought up the injection is that I do strongly believe what I heard last week regarding the condition of his back. I'm almost certain (99%) that it is accurate. The only thing that I know of that would allow for him to be back at practice without another surgery is an epidural injection. Maybe there are other routes for them to take that would allow him to play without the surgery?

Having said that, I think CnD has said that an injection has about a 50% success rate (in reducing pain and inflammation) the first time around and then the success rate dramatically decreases with each injection after. So, assuming he has already had a number of these, the success rate would be heavily diminished for this go round. Given that information, I do agree that it wouldn't be all that smart to do an injection after his surgery. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean they didn't do it.
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To re-inforce Otisbean's preliminary comments (his 1st paragraph) regarding epidurals performed at the completion of discectomy/back surgery, there is a May 2014 medical review article of this subject published in BMC Musculoskeletal Disorders . It's conclusions:

".........evidence in support of intraoperative epidural steroids reducing early postoperative pain (within the first two weeks) can be considered relatively strong.

...........evidence in support of intraoperative epidural steroids reducing intermediate postoperative pain (from two weeks to two months) can be considered relatively weak.

...........evidence in support of intraoperative epidural steroids not reducing late postoperative pain (from 2 months to one year) can be considered relatively strong."
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Intraoperative epidural steroid injections, therefore, are only effective for postoperative surgical pain within the 2 week postoperative period. However, it should be noted that it is not associated with lower incidence of scar formation or failed back syndrome. Symptoms associated with epidural scar tissue forming around the nerve root tend to appear anywhere from 4 to 12 weeks after the back surgery (within JJ's present postoperative rehab period). This is often preceded by an initial period of pain relief, after which the patient slowly develops recurrent leg pain or weakness, or back pain.

If, despite adequate rehab techniques being instituted, leg numbness, weakness and/or pain persists without improvement, or recurs (especially with increased activity) and begins to increase because the microdiscectomy's success has strongly come into question, the surgeon is again faced with the need to re-evalutate the player in terms of the potential eventual treatment options of epidural steroid injection vs. another microdiscectomy vs. even more invasive back surgery.

Typically, if the epidural route is pursued, depending on clinical response, the injections are usually performed in no shorter intervals than 2 weeks, and no more than 3 in a 12 month period because wandering outside those parameters can lead to loss of integrity of muscle, ligament and/or bone. If the first injection does not relieve your symptoms within two weeks, it may be recommended to have a second injection. Similarly, if the second injection does not relieve your symptoms in another two weeks, it may be recommended to have a third injection. However, not uncommonly, each poor or non-response makes it less likely that the next will invoke an effective response.
 
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The last few messages were off topic, but that's ok with me. Doc, do you think JJ will be back for the Bears? If so, will he aggravate his problems by returning too soon?
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
To re-inforce Otisbean's preliminary comments (his 1st paragraph) regarding epidurals performed at the completion of discectomy/back surgery, there is a May 2014 medical review article of this subject published in BMC Musculoskeletal Disorders . It's conclusions:



Intraoperative epidural steroid injections, therefore, are only effective for postoperative surgical pain within the 2 week postoperative period. However, it should be noted that it is not associated with lower incidence of scar formation or failed back syndrome. Symptoms associated with epidural scar tissue forming around the nerve root tend to appear anywhere from 4 to 12 weeks after the back surgery (within JJ's present postoperative rehab period). This is often preceded by an initial period of pain relief, after which the patient slowly develops recurrent leg pain or weakness, or back pain.

If, despite adequate rehab techniques being instituted, leg numbness, weakness and/or pain persists without improvement, or recurs (especially with increased activity) and begins to increase because the microdiscectomy's success has strongly come into question, the surgeon is again faced with the need to re-evalutate the player in terms of the potential eventual treatment options of epidural steroid injection vs. another microdiscectomy vs. even more invasive back surgery.

Typically, if the epidural route is pursued, depending on clinical response, the injections are usually performed in no shorter intervals than 2 weeks, and no more than 3 in a 12 month period because wandering outside those parametes can lead to loss of integrity of muscle, ligament and/or bone. If the first injection does not relieve your symptoms within two weeks, it may be recommended to have a second injection. Similarly, if the second injection does not relieve your symptoms in another two weeks, it may be recommended to have a third injection. However, not uncommonly, each poor or non-response makes it less likely that the next will invoke an effective response.
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Yeah Doc you've been missed man, not just for your medical expertise either.
 
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