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Official Brock Osweiler MVP Watch Thread!

Texecutioner said:
You do realize that rookie wr's rarely are ever "major" contributers as rookies don't you? The WR position and the CB position Are two of the hardest positions to transition to in the NFL. I'm not saying they can't do it, but I'd curb those expectations some based on the history of that position.
Click to expand...
I hear what your saying about transitioning into the position in the NFL and your right, rarely does a rookie receiver make a large impact.
I'll bet the farm on it that Fuller and Miller will be better than Martin and Posey ever were.
Lord


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Texecutioner said:
A bit off topic, but that is the beauty of Hawaii. I never experienced a bad bathroom anywhere. Even on the beach the port o pots were clean as can be.
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OK, Tex.

It's too troublesome to go find the post that I want to quote you on, but in a nutshell, you said to expect that the offense won't gel until later.
While it does have merit, I think you overstate the situation.

Some people use the fact that O'Brien took a 2-14 team and turned it into a 9-7 team and declared that he's a good coach.
The same thing applies here.
That 9-7 team didn't need a whole lot of time to gel, now, did it?

.................

You look at guys like Brady, Luck, or Newton.

Let's say Newton.
He came in the league with Rivera as a first time NFL HC, which is 2 years fewer than O'Brien have entering this year.
All the offensive players on that Panthers team had to learn from a brand new HC, and not just that, Rivera has always been on the defensive side of football.

Then, let's look at the offensive players that support him.
His second receiver was Naenee, a former 5th round draft pick, who was in his first year with the Panthers; his previous high was 24 receptions.
His number one receiver, Steve Smith, had seen a drop in production for 3 years in a row.
His number one TE, Greg Olsen, was in his first year with the Panthers
His second TE, Shockey, was also in first year with the Panthers, and his last in the NFL.

He does have 2 old veterans on the left side in Jordan Gross and Travelle Wharton.
Do you even know who they are?

His Center, Kalil, is good, but the RG was a no-name in his first year with the Panthers and his RT, Byron Bell, was an undrafted rookie.

He had no other help from the draft either.
Yet he was responsible for 35 of his team 47 TDs.
Remember how he threw for 854 yards in the first two games of his career.

So, yes.
I think it's an excuse if you don't expect Osweiler to perform right away.
Either that, or he's simply MEDIOCRE.

What say you?
 
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76Texan said:
I'm not exactly sure what type of fallacy in argument that you're making here; probably this:

Correlation proves causation (post hoc ergo propter hoc) – a faulty assumption that correlation between two variables implies that one causes the other.

You're assuming that Osweiler was a better backup QB than the other.

Those 3 QBs that went 3-0 lack the knowledge/familiarity of the system.
They were put under a more difficult situation than Osweiler on that end alone.
Click to expand...

Well lets get some perspective here. You keep calling him a back up. He was playing behind Peydon freaking Manning the entire time that he was a backup. In that time Maning threw for over 35 TD's like 3 times while having the best receiving core in the league for the most part. Manning is a HOF player. Was Oz really supposed to take the job from Manning in those circumstances? When he did get his chance to start he had some ups and downs like just about every beginner starting QB does, and he still went 5-2 with the help of a great defense of course. But calling him a backup being compared to other backups isn't speaking that accurately considering the circumstances especially since Denver did in fact try to extend his contract and pay him pretty handsomely TO BE THEIR STARTER.
 
Yeah we are paying the guy $19M a year. To be the guy for the Texans. And the face. Just hope that things calm on down for him!
 
Texecutioner said:
Well lets get some perspective here. You keep calling him a back up. He was playing behind Peydon freaking Manning the entire time that he was a backup. In that time Maning threw for over 35 TD's like 3 times while having the best receiving core in the league for the most part. Manning is a HOF player. Was Oz really supposed to take the job from Manning in those circumstances? When he did get his chance to start he had some ups and downs like just about every beginner starting QB does, and he still went 5-2 with the help of a great defense of course. But calling him a backup being compared to other backups isn't speaking that accurately considering the circumstances especially since Denver did in fact try to extend his contract and pay him pretty handsomely TO BE THEIR STARTER.
Click to expand...
I was using his (steelb) words (that Osweiler was a backup.)

And he was a backup.
 
76Texan said:
OK, Tex.

It's too troublesome to go find the post that I want to quote you on, but in a nutshell, you said to expect that the offense won't gel until later.
While it does have merit, I think you overstate the situation.

Some people use the fact that O'Brien took a 2-14 team and turned it into a 9-7 team and declared that he's a good coach.
The same thing applies here.
That 9-7 team didn't need a whole lot of time to gel, now, did it?

.................

You look at guys like Brady, Luck, or Newton.

Let's say Newton.
He came in the league with Rivera as a first time NFL HC, which is 2 years fewer than O'Brien have entering this year.
All the offensive players on that Panthers team had to learn from a brand new HC, and not just that, Rivera has always been on the defensive side of football.

Then, let's look at the offensive players that support him.
His second receiver was Naenee, a former 5th round draft pick, who was in his first year with the Panthers; his previous high was 24 receptions.
His number one receiver, Steve Smith, had seen a drop in production for 3 years in a row.
His number one TE, Greg Olsen, was in his first year with the Panthers
His second TE, Shockey, was also in first year with the Panthers, and his last in the NFL.

He does have 2 old veterans on the left side in Jordan Gross and Travelle Wharton.
Do you even know who they are?

His Center, Kalil, is good, but the RG was a no-name in his first year with the Panthers and his RT, Byron Bell, was an undrafted rookie.

He had no other help from the draft either.
Yet he was responsible for 35 of his team 47 TDs.
Remember how he threw for 854 yards in the first two games of his career.

So, yes.
I think it's an excuse if you don't expect Osweiler to perform right away.
Either that, or he's simply MEDIOCRE.

What say you?
Click to expand...

Are you saying a 6-10 team result is not as important as Osweiler throwing for 855 yards in his first two games?
 
Seegara said:
When taking a car trip across Texas, we stopped in a town that had the principal grocery store and Ace Hardware in the same building, connected by a short hall. The bathrooms were in that hall. The men's room had some liquid surrounding the toilet so I used the women's room instead and it was a lot better.

Instead of comparing posters to dirty bathrooms, why don't we just admit that there's truth in what they say at least part of the time? Oz is not a franchise QB but the Texans must have thought he was the best they could do.
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But the thing is, we don't really know if he is or isn't. But if I were a gambling man I would bet Elway and company thought he was their franchise quarterback. Thus the reason why he is so butt hurt that he left.
 
Texecutioner said:
I haven't been to that resort, but I've been all over that island Texian. One of my favorite places in the world.
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Me too! I was fortunate enough that for 25 years I got to spend at least a month every year in the Hawaii. I love all the islands but that view from Princeville is my favorite.
 
Texian said:
Me too! I was fortunate enough that for 25 years I got to spend at least a month every year in the Hawaii. I love all the islands but that view from Princeville is my favorite.
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How did you get to spend a month there every year for 25 years?
 
Texian said:
Me too! I was fortunate enough that for 25 years I got to spend at least a month every year in the Hawaii. I love all the islands but that view from Princeville is my favorite.
Click to expand...

How did you get to spend a month there every year for 25 years?
 
Texecutioner said:
How did you get to spend a month there every year for 25 years?
Click to expand...
I was in the travel business and I represented a couple of Insurance companies who did big incentives for the top sales people. I would always go to Hawaii the week before Thanksgiving as a combo site inspection vacation, the week after Thanksgiving being business. Then when the groups would arrive, usually in the Winter, I would go back for another 2 -3 weeks to operate the programs. One of life's simple pleasures was knowing it was midnight and freezing back home and I was on the golf course.
 
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Kaiser Toro said:
Are you saying a 6-10 team result is not as important as Osweiler throwing for 855 yards in his first two games?
Click to expand...
Haha, KT, let's not go arround and around.

I could easily bring up these points:

Newton, rookie.
Panthers 2-14 in 2010 ==> New HC and new a lot of things.

Osweiler, veteran, who went 5-2 the year before.
He comes to a team that went 9-7

Which guy should be treated as a rookie?
 
76Texan said:
Haha, KT, let's not go arround and around.

I could easily bring up these points:

Newton, rookie.
Panthers 2-14 in 2010 ==> New HC and new a lot of things.

Osweiler, veteran, who went 5-2 the year before.
He comes to a team that went 9-7

Which guy should be treated as a rookie?
Click to expand...

I am trying to find out what you are positioning, so not to go round and round.

So that is your question, your gripe - Os being treated like a rookie?
 
Texecutioner said:
Well lets get some perspective here. You keep calling him a back up. He was playing behind Peydon freaking Manning the entire time that he was a backup. In that time Maning threw for over 35 TD's like 3 times while having the best receiving core in the league for the most part. Manning is a HOF player. Was Oz really supposed to take the job from Manning in those circumstances? When he did get his chance to start he had some ups and downs like just about every beginner starting QB does, and he still went 5-2 with the help of a great defense of course. But calling him a backup being compared to other backups isn't speaking that accurately considering the circumstances especially since Denver did in fact try to extend his contract and pay him pretty handsomely TO BE THEIR STARTER.
Click to expand...

Brock came into that type of situation just like Rodgers who had Farve. There so many cases like that. Hopefully Brock net some of the same success. If so, we are set for at least 10 years.
 
76Texan said:
OK, Tex.

It's too troublesome to go find the post that I want to quote you on, but in a nutshell, you said to expect that the offense won't gel until later.
While it does have merit, I think you overstate the situation.

Some people use the fact that O'Brien took a 2-14 team and turned it into a 9-7 team and declared that he's a good coach.
The same thing applies here.
That 9-7 team didn't need a whole lot of time to gel, now, did it?
Click to expand...

Well yeah it kind of did. They had a lot of ups and downs that year mainly due to poor QB play. No one really expected them to go far that season which is why many of us laugh at this idea that OB didn't perform well or win a SB his first year here when he was turning over a roster.

.................

76Texan said:
You look at guys like Brady, Luck, or Newton.

Let's say Newton.
He came in the league with Rivera as a first time NFL HC, which is 2 years fewer than O'Brien have entering this year.
All the offensive players on that Panthers team had to learn from a brand new HC, and not just that, Rivera has always been on the defensive side of football.

Then, let's look at the offensive players that support him.
His second receiver was Naenee, a former 5th round draft pick, who was in his first year with the Panthers; his previous high was 24 receptions.
His number one receiver, Steve Smith, had seen a drop in production for 3 years in a row.
His number one TE, Greg Olsen, was in his first year with the Panthers
His second TE, Shockey, was also in first year with the Panthers, and his last in the NFL.

He does have 2 old veterans on the left side in Jordan Gross and Travelle Wharton.
Do you even know who they are?

His Center, Kalil, is good, but the RG was a no-name in his first year with the Panthers and his RT, Byron Bell, was an undrafted rookie.

He had no other help from the draft either.
Yet he was responsible for 35 of his team 47 TDs.
Remember how he threw for 854 yards in the first two games of his career.
Click to expand...

Actually Cam Newton is not really a great QB to make your point. I think it is an example that backs mine a lot more. Cam had a great rookie season. Then he regressed the next season. Then he came back and had a really good season again. Then he had a slightly above average season. Then last year he won the MVP and played spectacular. Throughout all of that Cam Newton has not been consistent. He has had ups and downs while he has been learning how to become a dominant QB. He found that stride last season. Lets see if he can sustain that level of play. He might not.

The last 5 years of the NFL there has been all types of bizarre results. RG3 and Kaepernick set the world on fire as rookies, and both stink up the joint years later for different reasons, but both of them turned into busts for their teams after being so good so early. Even Andrew Luck which was the best looking prospect the league has ever seen in most people's eyes, and then last season when many thought he'd be an MVP candidate he totally stinks up the joint. No one saw that coming. QB's in the NFL have been very inconsistent actually. The sticking point that I've noticed is that it takes a great deal of work and commitment to sustaining excellent play on the field as the general and very few have managed to do it. Even Matt Ryan who was a very good top 10 QB for a few years has turned into a very average guy. Flacco plays like an elite guy in the playoffs, then improves the next season and plays pretty bad last year.

76Texan said:
So, yes.
I think it's an excuse if you don't expect Osweiler to perform right away.
Either that, or he's simply MEDIOCRE.

What say you?
Click to expand...

You sound like you have your mind made up either way. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm not even convinced myself on Osweiler. I do think he has nice potential though. As far as him putting out great results right away, well again I think you're being pretty unreasonable and it almost seems like you want him to fail at this point. You don't seem to take into account that other than Hopkins, the rest of his receivers are rookies and a 1 year guy in Strong. As I told another guy, the WR position is the hardest position to transition to other than QB or CB in the NFL. They rarely set the world on fire in year one. It isn't just Osweiler learning this new "complicated" offense. It is two other rookie WR's that have to as well. That kind of thing usually doesn't just turn into an elite offense right away. I simply cannot just ignore those circumstances, and the Texans have a very questionable Oline that I think will make things pretty difficult for Oz.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Brock came into that type of situation just like Rodgers who had Farve. There so many cases like that. Hopefully Brock net some of the same success. If so, we are set for at least 10 years.
Click to expand...

Brock didn't get to stay on the same team with the same WR's playing in the same system like Rodgers did though. Brock went to a completely different team and is learning a new complicated system along with a bunch of young WR's (2 rookies) that are also having to learn that same complicated system. Not the same thing at all.
 
76Texan said:
I was using his (steelb) words (that Osweiler was a backup.)

And he was a backup.
Click to expand...

You didn't really address what I said though, and you're trying to simplify him as some mere backup, when you clearly know that wasn't the case. He was behind Manning for god sakes, do I have to say it again? Manning is gone and the coaching staff wanted him to be their franchise, so with that being the case, no he wasn't a back up when we got him. He was the new starter in Denver until he took a left turn and told them to **** themselves to come here.

I get it you don't like Brock, and you think he is going to crash badly. Fine, you have that free will to predict that or feel that way. I wasn't exactly ecstatic about the signing myself when it first happened. However, there is only one guy that I think we may have had a shot at that would have been a better candidate and that was Jimmy G, and for all I know I could be dead wrong on that. After we landed some nice receivers in the draft along with Miller, the situation looked like a situation with a lot of potential to me if the right things happen and the team chemistry comes together. Maybe it won't. We'll see, but man you really seem like you want to say "I told you so" at the end of this instead of wanting to be wrong about it. I've been in your shoes a lot regarding the Texans, but I've always wanted to be wrong if I felt pessimistic.
 
76Texan said:
OK, Tex.

It's too troublesome to go find the post that I want to quote you on, but in a nutshell, you said to expect that the offense won't gel until later.
While it does have merit, I think you overstate the situation.

Some people use the fact that O'Brien took a 2-14 team and turned it into a 9-7 team and declared that he's a good coach.
The same thing applies here.
That 9-7 team didn't need a whole lot of time to gel, now, did it?
.................
You look at guys like Brady, Luck, or Newton.

Let's say Newton.
He came in the league with Rivera as a first time NFL HC, which is 2 years fewer than O'Brien have entering this year.
All the offensive players on that Panthers team had to learn from a brand new HC, and not just that, Rivera has always been on the defensive side of football.

Then, let's look at the offensive players that support him.
His second receiver was Naenee, a former 5th round draft pick, who was in his first year with the Panthers; his previous high was 24 receptions.
His number one receiver, Steve Smith, had seen a drop in production for 3 years in a row.
His number one TE, Greg Olsen, was in his first year with the Panthers
His second TE, Shockey, was also in first year with the Panthers, and his last in the NFL.

He does have 2 old veterans on the left side in Jordan Gross and Travelle Wharton.
Do you even know who they are?

His Center, Kalil, is good, but the RG was a no-name in his first year with the Panthers and his RT, Byron Bell, was an undrafted rookie.

He had no other help from the draft either.
Yet he was responsible for 35 of his team 47 TDs.
Remember how he threw for 854 yards in the first two games of his career.

So, yes.
I think it's an excuse if you don't expect Osweiler to perform right away.
Either that, or he's simply MEDIOCRE.

What say you?
Click to expand...
Lot of words; still, not sure what yer point is?
Cam Newton led the Panthers (who were 2-14 the year before with Jimmy Clausen) to a 6-10 record.
Oh and Newton was the consensus 1-1 pick. That obviously doesn't apply to Osweiler as he was a late 2nd rd pick.
Are you saying Goff or Wentz are/will be as good as Luck or Newton and we should have bet the future to get one of them? I couldn't disagree more if that's your point.

then again, not sure what your point is....
:thinking:
 
Brock might not work out but he definitely won't be worse than Ryan or Brian and he does have some NFL experience behind one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time if not the greatest.
 
ObsiWan said:
Lot of words; still, not sure what yer point is?
Cam Newton led the Panthers (who were 2-14 the year before with Jimmy Clausen) to a 6-10 record.
Oh and Newton was the consensus 1-1 pick. That obviously doesn't apply to Osweiler as he was a late 2nd rd pick.
Are you saying Goff or Wentz are/will be as good as Luck or Newton and we should have bet the future to get one of them? I couldn't disagree more if that's your point.

then again, not sure what your point is....
:thinking:
Click to expand...

I still haven't quite figured it out either. It just seems like he is winding up a lot of diatribe written in a way where he can come in and tell us all how he told you so if Brock and the Texans crash and burn, but if they do well he can say that he wasn't really suggesting that would happen. I think. I'm still confused as to what his purpose is. :hmmm:
 
Texecutioner said:
I still haven't quite figured it out either. It just seems like he is winding up a lot of diatribe written in a way where he can come in and tell us all how he told you so if Brock and the Texans crash and burn, but if they do well he can say that he wasn't really suggesting that would happen. I think. I'm still confused as to what his purpose is. :hmmm:
Click to expand...

well, there is over 500 replies of mostly football conversation....
 
Mollywhopper said:
... and what's the conclusion?
Click to expand...
that he was right....

53075450.jpg


:D
LoL
 
I was/am happy with the Os signing. I would've been just fine going with Savage as the starter. I love what the Texans did in the draft and see the team doing very well in the future. Time will tell and I'm not one to second guess people when I don't have all of the information that went into the decision making.

I'm very DB on this. Football is entertainment and I will be entertained, one way or the other. I refuse to get too much heartburn over the failures while immensely enjoying the successes with the same immensity. That's a good place to be in and a place where I think most fans should be. One thing is for sure: I'll always be a Texans fan unless they move to a different city.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
I am trying to find out what you are positioning, so not to go round and round.

So that is your question, your gripe - Os being treated like a rookie?
Click to expand...
Let's go back to the title of the thread, which I created.

It reads, "I'm skeptical".
Skeptical is never meant to be "total conviction".

Skeptic and conviction are two very different words, right?

........

The thing about Osweiler needing time to gel with the rest of the team stemmed from Tex' comment as not to expect too much, too soon.
I responded by saying that the comment has merit, but can also be thought of as a built-in excuse.

There are other guys who had come in a new situation with a new HC, new OC, new teammates, etc. and they performed well.

Where they were drafted is irrelevant; especially considering that Osweiler has been in the league for a while.
 
76Texan said:
Let's go back to the title of the thread, which I created.

It reads, "I'm skeptical".
Skeptical is never meant to be "total conviction".

Skeptic and conviction are two very different words, right?

........

The thing about Osweiler needing time to gel with the rest of the team stemmed from Tex' comment as not to expect too much, too soon.
I responded by saying that the comment has merit, but can also be thought of as a built-in excuse.

There are other guys who had come in a new situation with a new HC, new OC, new teammates, etc. and they performed well.

Where they were drafted is irrelevant; especially considering that Osweiler has been in the league for a while.
Click to expand...

Simple question, are we better this year at the QB position than last year?

To show my cards, I 100% believe that we are much stronger at that position than we were the last three and half years.
 
Texecutioner said:
Well lets get some perspective here. You keep calling him a back up. He was playing behind Peydon freaking Manning the entire time that he was a backup. In that time Maning threw for over 35 TD's like 3 times while having the best receiving core in the league for the most part. Manning is a HOF player. Was Oz really supposed to take the job from Manning in those circumstances? When he did get his chance to start he had some ups and downs like just about every beginner starting QB does, and he still went 5-2 with the help of a great defense of course. But calling him a backup being compared to other backups isn't speaking that accurately considering the circumstances especially since Denver did in fact try to extend his contract and pay him pretty handsomely TO BE THEIR STARTER.
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I only respond to this to let you know that, as stated, I was using steelb's exact words.

Whatever my thinking (about Osweiler at that time) has no co-relation with this particular post. It was all about steelb.

I did not state what my belief was at the time.

The one thing I did say was that Manning was the starter, so yeah, technically, Osweiler was the backup.

Just like Tom Brady was backup to Drew Bledsoe at one time.
 
76Texan said:
Let's go back to the title of the thread, which I created.

It reads, "I'm skeptical".
Skeptical is never meant to be "total conviction".

Skeptic and conviction are two very different words, right?

........

The thing about Osweiler needing time to gel with the rest of the team stemmed from Tex' comment as not to expect too much, too soon.
I responded by saying that the comment has merit, but can also be thought of as a built-in excuse.

There are other guys who had come in a new situation with a new HC, new OC, new teammates, etc. and they performed well.

Where they were drafted is irrelevant; especially considering that Osweiler has been in the league for a while.
Click to expand...

OK, so let's compare where Os is at after 2 pre-season games to those guys. What are their names?
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Simple question, are we better this year at the QB position than last year?

To show my cards, I 100% believe that we are much stronger at that position than we were the last three and half years.
Click to expand...
Yes, but I still do not like the QB situation enough.
Even if Osweiler can be the good Schaub.

Remember how a lot of folks didn't think the good Schaub was enough to go the distance.

I didn't blame them even though I thought that the Texans can win with a total team effort.

I'm just joining that train of thought; that's all.
 
sandman said:
OK, so let's compare where Os is at after 2 pre-season games to those guys. What are their names?
Click to expand...
Trust me, I've watched the QB prospects that I had discussed (and also those I didn't even discuss) in their PS games.

Those in "scrutiny" got longer looks.
I even get torrents of the games so I can watch them any time since I no longer subscribe to NFL Rewind.
 
Truthfully, the first two games will mean squat in the whole scheme of things. There have been instances where a teams starting quarterbacks first two games were extremely good only to see those quarterbacks fall apart and end up as bust.

I think we should see how the first half dozen games go. Also lets determine Brocks play by taking into account other factors like how our offensive line performs and how our defense fares early without JJ Watt playing.

Brock may or may not be what we need at the quarterback position but I think we need to be realistic in regards to his performance early on.

I almost forgot another factor. How do our young wide outs do early on? If they are in sync with Brock that will help a lot. If Brock struggles early we need to look at all the factors outside of Brock and not just be quick to throw Brock under the bus!
 
76Texan said:
Trust me, I've watched the QB prospects that I had discussed (and also those I didn't even discuss) in their PS games.

Those in "scrutiny" got longer looks.
I even get torrents of the games so I can watch them any time since I no longer subscribe to NFL Rewind.
Click to expand...

I think you misunderstand. You said there were guys with new teams, HC, OC, teammates, etc. that performed well. I'm assuming you meant historically that you could look back to as a benchmark to judge where Os is currently at with the Texans. I was simply asking to give us some of those guys so we can see the comparisons that you are using. Not saying they are wrong, just asking for details.
 
sandman said:
I think you misunderstand. You said there were guys with new teams, HC, OC, teammates, etc. that performed well. I'm assuming you meant historically that you could look back to as a benchmark to judge where Os is currently at with the Texans. I was simply asking to give us some of those guys so we can see the comparisons that you are using. Not saying they are wrong, just asking for details.
Click to expand...
I had named a couple besides Newton in that first post.
Brady and Luck were the other two, but there were others (that I did not name) who were not as prominent.
 
You look at Luck for example.

New HC and everything.
I said he will be a good one, but I also want people to temper the thought that he will be the definite best one of his generation.
 
76Texan said:
Yes, but I still do not like the QB situation enough.
Even if Osweiler can be the good Schaub.

Remember how a lot of folks didn't think the good Schaub was enough to go the distance.

I didn't blame them even though I thought that the Texans can win with a total team effort.

I'm just joining that train of thought; that's all.
Click to expand...

Throughout this entire discussion, I haven't seen you present any other options that we could have done that were much better options to choose from in this off season. You can't sit here and dump on Oz over and over without presenting other routes that we could have realistically done. I at least did that myself by mentioning Jimmy G and even admitted that I could be wrong on that as well. I wasn't in love with the OZ situation at first as I said before, but realistically it was either take him or reach for one of these rookies that I wasn't in love with either. If elite QB's were so easy to get then every team would have one. I have probably been one of the most critical people on this site towards Rick Smith and Mcnair over the years. This is not one of those moves where they deserve it with all things considered.
 
TxnsJuggernaut said:
Truthfully, the first two games will mean squat in the whole scheme of things. There have been instances where a teams starting quarterbacks first two games were extremely good only to see those quarterbacks fall apart and end up as bust.

I think we should see how the first half dozen games go. Also lets determine Brocks play by taking into account other factors like how our offensive line performs and how our defense fares early without JJ Watt playing.

Brock may or may not be what we need at the quarterback position but I think we need to be realistic in regards to his performance early on.

I almost forgot another factor. How do our young wide outs do early on? If they are in sync with Brock that will help a lot. If Brock struggles early we need to look at all the factors outside of Brock and not just be quick to throw Brock under the bus!
Click to expand...

I've said pretty much all of this myself. Good post man.
 
sandman said:
OK, so you are naming a couple of 1:1 picks in their rookie seasons along with arguably the greatest QB draft anomaly in the history of the game? Way to really break out the hardcore analytics.
Click to expand...
It's not to compare them.
It's not even about where they were drafted.
So, at least, we agree that Osweiler is no Brady.

Just to further point out that the more of a built-in excuse one has for a QB, the lesser his chance of success.

Even if I want to build confidence in a child, I wouldn't go this way.
The child needs challenge as well as support.
But then gain, Osweiler is no child.

..................


Now, that was my original thought when I wanted to respond to you; however, I think ít's better to take a step back.

Myself, too.

But before I take a break, I'd like to re-iterate the word "Mediocre".

I never chewed out O'Brien for letting Keenum go, even though I thought it was not the best decision.

I can understand that as a new HC, he doesn't need the distraction of the hardcore local fans.

Football wise; however, I have said all along that Keenum can be at least a very inexpensive and efficient backup.

As I had "asked for" the acquisition of Schaub over the upcoming draft where Kolb was there for the taking, I believe I
sandman said:
OK, so you are naming a couple of 1:1 picks in their rookie seasons along with arguably the greatest QB draft anomaly in the history of the game? Way to really break out the hardcore analytics.
Click to expand...

It seems like this interface can sometimes acts up.

What I think is most ỉmportant is to share one thought; regardless as to who's right and who's wrong.

Otherwise, it totally defeats the purpose, the reason I joined this MB.
 
76Texan said:
Let's go back to the title of the thread, which I created.

It reads, "I'm skeptical".
Skeptical is never meant to be "total conviction".

Skeptic and conviction are two very different words, right?

........

The thing about Osweiler needing time to gel with the rest of the team stemmed from Tex' comment as not to expect too much, too soon.
I responded by saying that the comment has merit, but can also be thought of as a built-in excuse.

There are other guys who had come in a new situation with a new HC, new OC, new teammates, etc. and they performed well.

Where they were drafted is irrelevant; especially considering that Osweiler has been in the league for a while.
Click to expand...

Every Quarterback that has played this game needs to build cohesiveness and chemistry with its offense. That is not a built in excuse it's a known fact of football or any other team sport.

Now can he come in and experience some success like many others have, heck yeah. Shoots he's already experienced that success in Denver. You do know Kubiak wasn't the Broncos coach until last year. Brock had to learn a brand new offense. He went 5-2 for the Broncos.
 
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