Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

Texans relees Brian Hoyer

The Pencil Neck said:
I disagree. Picking the wrong QB sets you back more than waiting for the right QB. If you pick the wrong QB, you have to hand him the reins and give him his opportunity. And in the process, you waste a draft pick that you could have used to make the team better, and you doom a coach to be judged by that QB's performance even if that QB wasn't a guy the coach wanted to tie his performance to.
Click to expand...

You're assuming that the QB doesn't work out, and that the player that was picked instead does.

The exact opposite can happen too.

You can "wait for the right QB" and pass on some QB's that you can win with, and meanwhile pick guys at other positions that don't help or barely help at all. You can set yourself back or keep your team from progressing with either method.

One thing is for sure though....If you don't try then it won't happen.

The Pencil Neck said:
And over the course of 3-4 seasons, that coach/GM combo have to find 1 guy and make him The Guy. Because over the course of 3-4 seasons, they should have the opportunity to land a guy who is good and who will be a fit. The coach/GM combo don't get a free pass to skip every year because they don't see the perfect guy
Click to expand...

But what if they don't though? What if after 3-4 years they still don't think they've had the opportunity to land the guy they think checks off all the boxes? At that point it's ok to take a guy just to take one? If that is considered setting your franchise back in year one, then isn't that still setting your franchise back in year 3 or 4?

If in year 3 or 4 they are just taking the best guy they can find simply because...well, it's been long enough...
Why not get started on that earlier?
 
Last edited:
infantrycak said:
And it's doubly odd because you fall in love with 2-3 destined to be backup QBs each year and declare the ratings all screwy.
Click to expand...

Yeah... I thought I covered that.

I had no problem with Winston & Mariota 1 & 2. I had no problem with Luck & RGIII 1 & 2. I just don't think Bortles, Bridgewater, & Carr belong in that group.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
But what if they don't though? What if after 3-4 years they still don't think they've had the opportunity to land the guy they think checks off all the boxes? At that point it's ok to take a guy just to take one? If that is considered setting your franchise back in year one, then isn't that still setting your franchise back in year 3 or 4?

If in year 3 or 4 they are just taking the best guy they can find simply because...well, it's been long enough...
Why not get started on that earlier?
Click to expand...

When you get to year three or four, then you've got to start investing free agent dollars. Not 3 to 5 million dollars on Fitz or Hoyer. I'm talking Schaub/Flynn/Brees/Osweiler type money.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
You're assuming that the QB doesn't work out, and that the player that was picked instead does.

The exact opposite can happen too.

You can "wait for the right QB" and pass on some QB's that you can win with, and meanwhile pick guys at other positions that don't help or barely help at all. You can set yourself back or keep your team from progressing with either method.

One thing is for sure though....If you don't try then it won't happen.
Click to expand...

You're reading up to a point and then stopping instead of taking what I said in its entirety, but more on that later.

But what if they don't though? What if after 3-4 years they still don't think they've had the opportunity to land the guy they think checks off all the boxes? At that point it's ok to take a guy just to take one? If that is considered setting your franchise back in year one, then isn't that still setting your franchise back in year 3 or 4?

If in year 3 or 4 they are just taking the best guy they can find simply because...well, it's been long enough...
Why not get started on that earlier?
Click to expand...

And this is what I'm saying. If they don't find a guy in 3-4 years, can 'em and start over because they're not the guys to find someone to lead your team.

And this applies to the first point as well. If they pass on a guy who turns out to be the real deal and use that pick on someone who turns out not to help the team, then you can them and start over because they're not the guys to find someone to lead your team.

In our particular case and looking back at the way things have developed:

1) I don't mind that they drafted Clowney, and didn't waste their time with Bortles/Bridgewater/Manziel, but I do mind that they drafted Sua Filo without picking up Carr or Garropolo when they had the chance. That's a big strike to me.
2) I do mind that they thought Hoyer/Mallett could carry this team and that they put Savage on IR without designation to return. If anything, they should have just gone on with a competition between Fitzy, Mallett, and Savage, OR they should have cut Mallett if they knew he had maturity issues. So last year's handling of the QB position is another huge strike against them and their ability to judge QBs.
3) Despite all the cock-ups they've had over the first two years of their partnership, they've still managed to get to the play-offs each year and OB has managed to beat Indy in Indy. So, those are pluses.
4) I like that they made a gutsy move with Osweiler. But he's got to produce and he's got to produce early or OB and Smith should be fired.

That's where I'm at with it.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
If this story is true, then it kinda pisses me off.

According to this, Smith thinks he could have possibly gotten a pick for Hoyer but as a favor to Hoyer, they let him go so he could work out his own deal and figure out where he wanted to go.

Seriously? They should have traded his azz to the highest bidder.
Click to expand...

This says it all to me...
Although general manager Rick Smith was unable to find a trade partner for Hoyer
Click to expand...

The rest is just speculation from Smith about woulda, coulda, if's and maybe's

Also by releasing him now after not finding a partner and before any organized work begins he ain't around to spread his stink on the team any further
 
The Pencil Neck said:
If this story is true, then it kinda pisses me off.

According to this, Smith thinks he could have possibly gotten a pick for Hoyer but as a favor to Hoyer, they let him go so he could work out his own deal and figure out where he wanted to go.

Seriously? They should have traded his azz to the highest bidder.
Click to expand...

I read that completely different. In my version the question was had they kept him longer did he think we could have got a pick for him. Rick answered definitely but the organization felt they didn't want him mucking up the picture when we started offseason activities.

Do the Texans need to deal with the charade that Hoyer is #2 on our depth chart, to maximize that trade, or would we be better off letting Weeden & Savage handle their business.

Not that there was any bid at all at this time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ROO
WolverineFan said:
And what makes you think next year is going to be any different? You say this every year. Then we get to next year and it's the same thing. Eternally waiting on the perfect QB to come out is no different than picking the wrong one. They both set you back.
Click to expand...

This yr is a good yr for QB. If you dont like this QB class as an org, you either do what the Texans did with Os or load up on picks so that you can move up and get a QB you have targeted in the 2017 class. I just dont believe in forcing picks. That leads to Locker/Gabbert/Losman type decisions.

The best QB prospect in college right now wont be eligible until 2018. Josh Rosen
 
The Pencil Neck said:
If this story is true, then it kinda pisses me off.

According to this, Smith thinks he could have possibly gotten a pick for Hoyer but as a favor to Hoyer, they let him go so he could work out his own deal and figure out where he wanted to go.

Seriously? They should have traded his azz to the highest bidder.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a cop out to me.

Knew it wasn't worth trying because everyone knew he was gone anyway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JB
ChampionTexan said:
Serious question - what exactly does the individual year qualification mean? What happens if there's two or three (or more) years in a row where you simply don't see a QB you love or at least like a whole lot?
Click to expand...

Pretty much what TPN said earlier - if you're coaching staff goes on 3+ years without swinging can their butts because they either aren't looking for strikes or can't see them.
 
JB said:
This says it all to me...

The rest is just speculation from Smith about woulda, coulda, if's and maybe's

Also by releasing him now after not finding a partner and before any organized work begins he ain't around to spread his stink on the team any further
Click to expand...
Unbelievable we have a GM this stupid. What the hell do the Texans owe to Brian ******* Hoyer? He put us fans through absolute hell last season and our moronic GM passes on getting a late round pick for this chump? He deserved to be tarred and feathered and ridden out on a rail for the playoff performance he had. I haven't hated a Texans player more than Hoyer. I saw Rick Smith at the gym today. I wish I threw a coke at him and told him to his face how much he sucks. This idiot is the constant and the reason why we haven't made serious noise in the playoffs.
 
Last edited:
TexansFight said:
Unbelievable we have a GM this stupid. What the hell do the Texans owe to Brian ******* Hoyer? He put us fans through absolute hell last season and our moronic GM passes on getting a late round pick for this chump? He deserved to be tarred and feathered and ridden out on a rail for the playoff performance he had. I haven't hated a Texans player than Hoyer. I saw Rick Smith at the gym today. I wish I threw a coke at him and told him to his face how much he sucks. This idiot is the constant and the reason why we haven't made serious noise in the playoffs.
Click to expand...

That's just it. He couldn't get even a 7th for him, but wanted everyone to think he was just being nice guy.
 
I must have a different view. Everyone saw him crap the bed in the playoffs.everyone knew that he isn't in the texans plan, everyone knows he can save the texans 5mil in cap space. I don't think he was in demand. Last couple of paragraphs in the article nailed it ..yes we gave the player time to find a team plus releasing him know leaves us off the hook for if he got injured. I believe it was an organizational decision about him, just not ricks only decision. Bob (both) made that
 
TexansFight said:
Unbelievable we have a GM this stupid. What the hell do the Texans owe to Brian ******* Hoyer? He put us fans through absolute hell last season and our moronic GM passes on getting a late round pick for this chump? He deserved to be tarred and feathered and ridden out on a rail for the playoff performance he had. I haven't hated a Texans player more than Hoyer. I saw Rick Smith at the gym today. I wish I threw a coke at him and told him to his face how much he sucks. This idiot is the constant and the reason why we haven't made serious noise in the playoffs.
Click to expand...
From a purely practical standpoint, the reason you don't crap on these guys going out the door, and in fact try to treat them decently regardless of how they performed for you is because other players - some of whom you might be trying to sign as a free agent one day - pay attention to this kind of stuff.
 
I completely agree with the decision of getting rid of Hoyer-ribble as soon as we could. I didn't want his sucky, loser QB play to infect Osweiler. The main issue I have is that Rick Smith (1) does not seem to work the phones looking at making trades and adding value to the team (2) horrible mid round draft pick record which is where good teams find depth and occasional stars. It is telling to me that he has only made one draft day trade in the first round during his 10+ years here. He is a mediocre at best GM and should have been fired back in 2010.
 
ChampionTexan said:
From a purely practical standpoint, the reason you don't crap on these guys going out the door, and in fact try to treat them decently regardless of how they performed for you is because other players - some of whom you might be trying to sign as a free agent one day - pay attention to this kind of stuff.
Click to expand...
Money and winning are what talks. The Patriots and Belichick are cold and calculating and don't engage in such sentimentality and it has 0 impact on them being able to attract free agents.
 
infantrycak said:
Pretty much what TPN said earlier - if you're coaching staff goes on 3+ years without swinging can their butts because they either aren't looking for strikes or can't see them.
Click to expand...

TPN said if a QB we passed on hits in the NFL.

If they're all mediocre I'm inclined to believe the GM & coach know what they're doing.
 
thunderkyss said:
TPN said if a QB we passed on hits in the NFL.
Click to expand...

He said a lot more than that:

The Pencil Neck said:
...(about forcing a pick into a particular year)...

BUT!!!!

No one should wait for the "perfect" QB because those are too rare and opportunities to land them too few. A coach and his staff and his offensive system has to find a guy that can win games and then lift him up, prop him up, give him the resources he needs to be a winner. If that means digging through the trash heap and starting 8 QBs over the course of two seasons, fine.

And over the course of 3-4 seasons, that coach/GM combo have to find 1 guy and make him The Guy. Because over the course of 3-4 seasons, they should have the opportunity to land a guy who is good and who will be a fit. The coach/GM combo don't get a free pass to skip every year because they don't see the perfect guy.

If any of those guys they skipped over turn out to be good QBs, then that Coach/GM have to be held accountable for missing an opportunity.

But I will never, ever agree with just picking a guy because you need to have a guy.
Click to expand...
 
TexansFight said:
I completely agree with the decision of getting rid of Hoyer-ribble as soon as we could. I didn't want his sucky, loser QB play to infect Osweiler. The main issue I have is that Rick Smith (1) does not seem to work the phones looking at making trades and adding value to the team (2) horrible mid round draft pick record which is where good teams find depth and occasional stars. It is telling to me that he has only made one draft day trade in the first round during his 10+ years here. He is a mediocre at best GM and should have been fired back in 2010.
Click to expand...

Rick Smith got draft picks for Broke Schaub, Yates, Keenum and Fitzy and you're complaining about the one scrub QB he didn't get a pick from.
 
TexansFight said:
Money and winning are what talks. The Patriots and Belichick are cold and calculating and don't engage in such sentimentality and it has 0 impact on them being able to attract free agents.
Click to expand...
infantrycak said:
That's a good perspective - he finally didn't pull a rabbit out of his ass.

But he was stupid in his comments - shouldn't have mentioned a trade at all other than to say one didn't happen.
Click to expand...
So what's the harm beyond subjecting himself to a little bit of ridicule? He threw a bone to Hoyer (you didn't suck so bad we couldn't have traded you, we just chose not to drag this out), and he attempted - however successfully - to put a positive light on the franchise.
 
QB Hoyer Completes Visit With Broncos
April 23, 2016 3:35 PM

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. (The Sports Xchange) – Veteran free agent quarterback Brian Hoyer completed his visit with the Denver Broncos after talking to the New York Jets earlier in the week.

According to Pro Football Talk, Hoyer’s current plan is to head home for a few days before talking some more with the Jets and Broncos.

Four or five other teams reportedly are interested in talking to the 30-year-old Hoyer.

Broncos executive vice president of football operations/general manager John Elway continues to keep his options open.

“We had a good visit,” Elway said Thursday of Hoyer. “I think he’s got another trip lined up. He’s a possibility. He’s a good football player. We wanted to have him in to get a chance to meet him and get to know him a little bit. Nothing to report there.”
Click to expand...
 
I know some of y'all may not actually put it all together and think about it, but these guys are actual people. Yeah, he sucked at his job, but it wasn't because he wasn't diligent, conscientious, or put in the required effort. He just wasn't good enough. These people build actual relationships with the other players, coaches, and front office personnel on the team. Successful teams know where that relationship ends and business begins, but they also aren't needless assholes like some of the posters on the internet.

Glad to see Hoyer gone, but he didn't do anything to deserve to be tarred and feathered, have **** thrown in his face, or other ridiculous claims. He failed at his job. That's all. A job that, by the way, none of us can do, and really, not even 32 people on the planet can do. I bet some of you have sucked at your job before. I'm pretty damn good at what I do, but I've had a 30-0 debacle in my career.

Perspective, people. Jeez.
 
I don't blame Hoyer at all for the fiasco. O'b is the one who deserves to be tarred & feathered. McNair & Rick should be publicly whipped for not being able to see what we all saw when O'b was hired.

Well some of us saw this happening (not me, I didn't see it until we actually signed Hoyer).
 
thunderkyss said:
I don't blame Hoyer at all for the fiasco. O'b is the one who deserves to be tarred & feathered. McNair & Rick should be publicly whipped for not being able to see what we all saw when O'b was hired.

Well some of us saw this happening (not me, I didn't see it until we actually signed Hoyer).
Click to expand...

While I agree with you on the accountability aspect of the situation, MAYBE we should tone down the hyperbole and rhetoric. We are talking about football here, and you want to whip a black man in public.
 
eriadoc said:
I know some of y'all may not actually put it all together and think about it, but these guys are actual people. Yeah, he sucked at his job, but it wasn't because he wasn't diligent, conscientious, or put in the required effort. He just wasn't good enough. These people build actual relationships with the other players, coaches, and front office personnel on the team. Successful teams know where that relationship ends and business begins, but they also aren't needless assholes like some of the posters on the internet.

Glad to see Hoyer gone, but he didn't do anything to deserve to be tarred and feathered, have **** thrown in his face, or other ridiculous claims. He failed at his job. That's all. A job that, by the way, none of us can do, and really, not even 32 people on the planet can do. I bet some of you have sucked at your job before. I'm pretty damn good at what I do, but I've had a 30-0 debacle in my career.

Perspective, people. Jeez.
Click to expand...

You need to quit with all this "perspective" bullshit man. Seriously. We're trying to put together a decent lynch mob here and you're harshing the buzz with all this reality stuff.
 
Hervoyel said:
You need to quit with all this "perspective" bullshit man. Seriously. We're trying to put together a decent lynch mob here and you're harshing the buzz with all this reality stuff.
Click to expand...

I don't have either a rope or a horse, what have you got?
 
eriadoc said:
I know some of y'all may not actually put it all together and think about it, but these guys are actual people. Yeah, he sucked at his job, but it wasn't because he wasn't diligent, conscientious, or put in the required effort. He just wasn't good enough. These people build actual relationships with the other players, coaches, and front office personnel on the team. Successful teams know where that relationship ends and business begins, but they also aren't needless assholes like some of the posters on the internet.

Glad to see Hoyer gone, but he didn't do anything to deserve to be tarred and feathered, have **** thrown in his face, or other ridiculous claims. He failed at his job. That's all. A job that, by the way, none of us can do, and really, not even 32 people on the planet can do. I bet some of you have sucked at your job before. I'm pretty damn good at what I do, but I've had a 30-0 debacle in my career.

Perspective, people. Jeez.
Click to expand...
You are describing the soft, not ready for prime time and not willing to win at all costs Texans to a T. Winning organizations like the Patriots, Ravens, Broncos and Packers would have gotten a pick for the garbage that is Hoyer if they could or just shut their traps and released him without saying anything about possibly getting something unlike our idiot GM. Ownership and the GM of the Texans is what is holding us back. I want an owner and GM that wants to win at all costs. Sign me up for upper management like that.
 
TexansFight said:
You are describing the soft, not ready for prime time and not willing to win at all costs Texans to a T. Winning organizations like the Patriots, Ravens, Broncos and Packers would have gotten a pick for the garbage that is Hoyer if they could or just shut their traps and released him without saying anything about possibly getting something unlike our idiot GM. Ownership and the GM of the Texans is what is holding us back. I want an owner and GM that wants to win at all costs. Sign me up for upper management like that.
Click to expand...

Again... They got draft picks for Schaub, Yates, Keenum and Fitz. But they are idiots because they only got draft picks on 4 out of 5 scrub QB's over the last two years.
 
eriadoc said:
I know some of y'all may not actually put it all together and think about it, but these guys are actual people. Yeah, he sucked at his job, but it wasn't because he wasn't diligent, conscientious, or put in the required effort. He just wasn't good enough. These people build actual relationships with the other players, coaches, and front office personnel on the team. Successful teams know where that relationship ends and business begins, but they also aren't needless assholes like some of the posters on the internet.

Glad to see Hoyer gone, but he didn't do anything to deserve to be tarred and feathered, have **** thrown in his face, or other ridiculous claims. He failed at his job. That's all. A job that, by the way, none of us can do, and really, not even 32 people on the planet can do. I bet some of you have sucked at your job before. I'm pretty damn good at what I do, but I've had a 30-0 debacle in my career.

Perspective, people. Jeez.
Click to expand...

I always assume that fans are talking metaphorical / allegorical when they say these things. And I also assume they are talking about Hoyer (or whoever) "the player", not Hoyer the human being. And when I say fans, I figure folks who are sort of assuming that passionate attitude of vicariously living through entertainment than actually representing themselves as people. Of course, I could be wrong, or perhaps only safe to assume these things about 99% of fans, where there could always be a sociopath or two mixed in any given crowd.

I doubt anyone really wants actual harm to come to Brian Hoyer. I would find it very sad if someone really wanted the guy to suffer in pain for a bad game / career.

Of course, it is always interesting to note that there is real world emotion about this stuff. Anyone that suffered through 35-3 knows what I'm talking about. That said, folks have got to let it go.
 
eriadoc said:
I know some of y'all may not actually put it all together and think about it, but these guys are actual people. Yeah, he sucked at his job, but it wasn't because he wasn't diligent, conscientious, or put in the required effort. He just wasn't good enough. These people build actual relationships with the other players, coaches, and front office personnel on the team. Successful teams know where that relationship ends and business begins, but they also aren't needless assholes like some of the posters on the internet.

Glad to see Hoyer gone, but he didn't do anything to deserve to be tarred and feathered, have **** thrown in his face, or other ridiculous claims. He failed at his job. That's all. A job that, by the way, none of us can do, and really, not even 32 people on the planet can do. I bet some of you have sucked at your job before. I'm pretty damn good at what I do, but I've had a 30-0 debacle in my career.

Perspective, people. Jeez.
Click to expand...

I totally get your point but he was paid millions of dollars to not suck, but he sucked. He knew when he decided to take money for his "skills" that displaying shitty skills or a lack of skills would result in exactly what it resulted in. Big boy got paid big bucks so he can take the lumps like he took the money.
I too am a human being and I'd take ten times the written or verbal abuse he took if I was compensated like he was.
 
infantrycak said:
Common sense to be analogous to the discussion in this case.

Mid-season roster spots are critical, that and having a backup QB - which they signed the next day.
Click to expand...
I guess I was a little confused not knowing exactly how this game was being played and since Mallett was a starting QB like the rest.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top