What to do in 1st round?

[WolverineFan]

Hoyer-esque

 

[mussop]

Hoyer-esque

In the Utah game (last clip) make a gif for each of the five int's he threw and the fumble he had. Then go ahead and make 4 more gifs of the passes that hit the defenders in the hands that could of been intercepted and yes that's very hoyer-esque.

 

[WolverineFan]

In the Utah game (last clip) make a gif for each of the five int's he threw and the fumble he had. Then go ahead and make 4 more gifs of the passes that hit the defenders in the hands that could of been intercepted and yes that's very hoyer-esque.

He had a very poor game against Utah, yet still threw multiple absolute dimes and had his team in the redzone with a chance to win at the end before his receiver dropped a 4th down conversion.

The comparison is just way off base. Hoyer is a 30 year old vet who makes zero wow throws and numerous wtf throws a game. There is zero upside with him because even if you eliminate the wtf throws he still won't wow you. Goff is a 21 year old prospect who throws multiple wow throws and a few wtf throws a game. If he can improve his decision making (again, he's 21) then there is a lot left to work with.

A more apt comparison would be someone like Jameis Winston or Matt Ryan. Guys who made tons of wow throws but also numerous wtf throws as they struggled with decision making and tended to force the ball.

Btw, every college QB that has ever come out into the draft has had a game like that. Andrew Luck is the only exception in my experience. Narrowing your focus on the evaluation of the kid to one game limits the picture that you see. Did you also evaluate the Stanford game a month later when he threw for 350 and no turnovers against a top defense? Did you judge Peyton Manning just off his Nebraska and Florida film and ignore his other games?

 

[steelbtexan]

He had a very poor game against Utah, yet still threw multiple absolute dimes and had his team in the redzone with a chance to win at the end before his receiver dropped a 4th down conversion.

The comparison is just way off base. Hoyer is a 30 year old vet who makes zero wow throws and numerous wtf throws a game. There is zero upside with him because even if you eliminate the wtf throws he still won't wow you. Goff is a 21 year old prospect who throws multiple wow throws and a few wtf throws a game. If he can improve his decision making (again, he's 21) then there is a lot left to work with.

A more apt comparison would be someone like Jameis Winston or Matt Ryan. Guys who made tons of wow throws but also numerous wtf throws as they struggled with decision making and tended to force the ball.

Btw, every college QB that has ever come out into the draft has had a game like that. Andrew Luck is the only exception in my experience. Narrowing your focus on the evaluation of the kid to one game limits the picture that you see. Did you also evaluate the Stanford game a month later when he threw for 350 and no turnovers against a top defense? Did you judge Peyton Manning just off his Nebraska and Florida film and ignore his other games?

Elway/Marino/Kelly were pretty good as young QB's.

 

[thunderkyss]

I don't really have an opinion on Goff just yet. I've watched a few of his cut ups & I understand the interest. I really like his feet & how they allow him to set up & deliver quickly in small spaces.

But... like I said, I don't know if he's in my top three.

Is that crazy? Do we think 32 teams have the top 3 relatively the same?

Now, just like Bridgewater wasn't in my top 3 i don't know if I would have passed on him at 22, if I needed a QB. Same with Goff.

Two of my top 3 will probably be gone. If Goff is there at 22... I'm leaning towards Cook, but I'll probably have to use every second I have on the clock to turn my card in.

 

[Uncle Rico]

So this fanbase is going to pass up good QB's waiting on the Manning,Elway,Marino,Luck type players? Alrighty then. Smoke em if you got em boys its gonna be a long stretch if some of these guys get their way.

 

[Mollywhopper]

Two of my top 3 will probably be gone. If Goff is there at 22... I'm leaning towards Cook, but I'll probably have to use every second I have on the clock to turn my card in.

Why Cook over Goff?

 

[JB]

So this fanbase is going to pass up good QB's waiting on the Manning,Elway,Marino,Luck type players? Alrighty then. Smoke em if you got em boys its gonna be a long stretch if some of these guys get their way.

Been drinking?

 

[thunderkyss]

Why Cook over Goff?

Cook has been at the top of my QB list since last season.

Funny you didn't ask why Lynch or Wentz over Goff.

 

[Mollywhopper]

Cook has been at the top of my QB list since last season.

Funny you didn't ask why Lynch or Wentz over Goff.

- I was curious of any particulars.

- Not funny really, given what I quoted.

 

[thunderkyss]

- I was curious of any particulars.

- Not funny really, given what I quoted.

Cook is still at the top of my list. He's the most NFL ready in my opinion. I don't see the inaccuracy issue. & that concerns me because it's there,plain as day in his numbers.

It could be Lynch, or Wentz there at 22 & I'd still have to take the whole 4 minutes (or whatever it is) trying to figure out what I missed.

But right now, for me... If I were the Texans I'm not too interested in trading up, because I feel Cook will be there at 22 & I have no problem taking him there..

 

[Mollywhopper]

Cook is still at the top of my list. He's the most NFL ready in my opinion. I don't see the inaccuracy issue. & that concerns me because it's there,plain as day in his numbers.

It could be Lynch, or Wentz there at 22 & I'd still have to take the whole 4 minutes (or whatever it is) trying to figure out what I missed.

But right now, for me... If I were the Texans I'm not too interested in trading up, because I feel Cook will be there at 22 & I have no problem taking him there..

Okey doke.

 

[DocBar]

I was a clowney proponent in 2014 ,but i didn't know then that rooting for clowney meant skipping any young qb talent. Knowing what i do now i'd have rooted for bortles not that it would change anything. We have to secure a qb splash because we spent the last 2 off-seasons with a finger up our azzhole @ qb. All rookies have flaws.

We both agree that we need a splash QB, but it's my contention that the best QB in this draft isn't a top 5 from 2014. Being the "best" prospect in a given draft doesn't necessarily mean a good prospect, imo.
I was also a Cloowney @ 1.1 proponent and didn't think The Texans would miss out on any good, young talent.
That's another reason I'm good with giving Savage a shot. Maybe Savage is that young talent, if you don't get hung up on draft position.

 

[DocBar]

Cook is still at the top of my list. He's the most NFL ready in my opinion. I don't see the inaccuracy issue. & that concerns me because it's there,plain as day in his numbers.

It could be Lynch, or Wentz there at 22 & I'd still have to take the whole 4 minutes (or whatever it is) trying to figure out what I missed.

But right now, for me... If I were the Texans I'm not too interested in trading up, because I feel Cook will be there at 22 & I have no problem taking him there..

Why do you rate Cook so highly? Most "experts" have him on the board at 22, 44 and 66. A couple of "expert's" opinions. I'm asking earnestly, not being a smartass.

 

[Mollywhopper]

it's my contention that the best QB in this draft isn't a top 5 from 2014.

You would really rate five QB's from 2014 ahead of Jared Goff?

 

[thunderkyss]

Why do you rate Cook so highly? Most "experts" have him on the board at 22, 44 and 66. A couple of "expert's" opinions. I'm asking earnestly, not being a smartass.

To keep it in perspective, Aj McCarron was my top rated QB in the 2014 draft.

I've got an old & obviously antiquated way of grading QB prospects. Some of the major components of that grade:

Size, major school, major conference, traditional football program, pro offense, prolific, big stages, I want to see them go through their progressions, I want to see a good understanding of ball placement.

One thing I like about Cook over Goff is the deep out. I know Cook can throw it. I've seen it many times. I've rarely seen Goff throw it. Doesn't mean that he can't just that I haven't seen it.

People want to talk about "strong enough to make all the throws" well I want to see the 10~15 yard out. Anyone can make the throw, not everyone can put it on a rope.

It looks like Cal's offense was more about pushing the ball down field, so maybe that's why it wasn't thrown as often, I don't know & won't know until the combine if he throws, or his pro day if he doesn't.

But anyway, Cook checks off more of my boxes than the other "top" QBs in this draft.

 

[thunderkyss]

& it looks like this is a much better QB draft than 2014. Of the 1st rounders in 2014, Bridgewater is the only one close to this group of possible 1sts.

IMO

 

[DocBar]

To keep it in perspective, Aj McCarron was my top rated QB in the 2014 draft.

I've got an old & obviously antiquated way of grading QB prospects. Some of the major components of that grade:

Size, major school, major conference, traditional football program, pro offense, prolific, big stages, I want to see them go through their progressions, I want to see a good understanding of ball placement.

One thing I like about Cook over Goff is the deep out. I know Cook can throw it. I've seen it many times. I've rarely seen Goff throw it. Doesn't mean that he can't just that I haven't seen it.

People want to talk about "strong enough to make all the throws" well I want to see the 10~15 yard out. Anyone can make the throw, not everyone can put it on a rope.

It looks like Cal's offense was more about pushing the ball down field, so maybe that's why it wasn't thrown as often, I don't know & won't know until the combine if he throws, or his pro day if he doesn't.

But anyway, Cook checks off more of my boxes than the other "top" QBs in this draft.

So it's just your gut instinct.

 

[Seegara]

Ron Rivera for Texans coach!

 

[mussop]

He had a very poor game against Utah, yet still threw multiple absolute dimes and had his team in the redzone with a chance to win at the end before his receiver dropped a 4th down conversion.

The comparison is just way off base. Hoyer is a 30 year old vet who makes zero wow throws and numerous wtf throws a game. There is zero upside with him because even if you eliminate the wtf throws he still won't wow you. Goff is a 21 year old prospect who throws multiple wow throws and a few wtf throws a game. If he can improve his decision making (again, he's 21) then there is a lot left to work with.

A more apt comparison would be someone like Jameis Winston or Matt Ryan. Guys who made tons of wow throws but also numerous wtf throws as they struggled with decision making and tended to force the ball.

Btw, every college QB that has ever come out into the draft has had a game like that. Andrew Luck is the only exception in my experience. Narrowing your focus on the evaluation of the kid to one game limits the picture that you see. Did you also evaluate the Stanford game a month later when he threw for 350 and no turnovers against a top defense? Did you judge Peyton Manning just off his Nebraska and Florida film and ignore his other games?

He had a very poor game against Utah, yet still threw multiple absolute dimes and had his team in the redzone with a chance to win at the end before his receiver dropped a 4th down conversion.

The comparison is just way off base. Hoyer is a 30 year old vet who makes zero wow throws and numerous wtf throws a game. There is zero upside with him because even if you eliminate the wtf throws he still won't wow you. Goff is a 21 year old prospect who throws multiple wow throws and a few wtf throws a game. If he can improve his decision making (again, he's 21) then there is a lot left to work with.

A more apt comparison would be someone like Jameis Winston or Matt Ryan. Guys who made tons of wow throws but also numerous wtf throws as they struggled with decision making and tended to force the ball.

Btw, every college QB that has ever come out into the draft has had a game like that. Andrew Luck is the only exception in my experience. Narrowing your focus on the evaluation of the kid to one game limits the picture that you see. Did you also evaluate the Stanford game a month later when he threw for 350 and no turnovers against a top defense? Did you judge Peyton Manning just off his Nebraska and Florida film and ignore his other games?

He cost his team that game by making some horrible throws. And the only comparison I was making to Hoyer was their similar game outcome. Like I said they both play well for awhile and then out of nowhere throw horrible passes that put their team in bad positions. Not their skillet or abilities.

My focus is fine. I've watched nearly all his games. Even the Stanford game they lost. In that Stanford game he piled up stats but there weren't tons of throws that were good nfl level throws and he was lucky at least once that he didn't get intercepted.

As I've said before (which is basically what you just repeated) I wouldn't be unhappy if we drafted him but he's no Andrew Luck which is they way people are acting around here. He's a first round talent but one with plenty of risk. No way in hell is he so much better than the other top QBs in this draft that I'm going to sell the house to move up to top 5 and draft him.

His chances of being great aren't any better than some of the other first round bust of the last few drafts.

 

[TexansSeminole]

The ideal QB for my viewing pleasure is one that is more of a gunslinger with resolve. I like guys that aren't afraid to throw the ball down the field, guys that take chances, and don't get rattled when things are going poorly. That's one of the reasons I loved watching Winston in college. He had/has some bad games/throws, but he comes right back and makes a play. Give me a QB like that and I'm happy with whatever the outcome. It's maddening to watch a 30 year old QB float 5 yard passes into a defenders hands and then meltdown.

 

[Marshall]

The ideal QB for my viewing pleasure is one that is more of a gunslinger with resolve. I like guys that aren't afraid to throw the ball down the field, guys that take chances, and don't get rattled when things are going poorly. That's one of the reasons I loved watching Winston in college. He had/has some bad games/throws, but he comes right back and makes a play. Give me a QB like that and I'm happy with whatever the outcome. It's maddening to watch a 30 year old QB float 5 yard passes into a defenders hands and then meltdown.

That sure sounds like you are describing Ken Stabler. He was very exciting, but not that successful in the playoffs. He could get you to the playoffs and then take you out of the playoffs.

 

[DX-TEX]

Eric Galko @OptimumScouting
2016 #SeniorBowl darling Carson Wentz at 6052, 233 pounds with 10 inch hands. Could expectations be any higher? #NorthDakotaSt

He even has huge freaking hands. Trade up for this kid! Do whatever it takes!

 

[Seegara]

That sure sounds like you are describing Ken Stabler. He was very exciting, but not that successful in the playoffs. He could get you to the playoffs and then take you out of the playoffs.

Stabler escaped lots of interceptions because he was left handed. Defensive backs weren't used to holding on to a ball spinning the wrong way.

 

[infantrycak]

Stabler escaped lots of interceptions because he was left handed. Defensive backs weren't used to holding on to a ball spinning the wrong way.

Lol - yeah right...or left.

 

[badboy]

Stabler escaped lots of interceptions because he was left handed. Defensive backs weren't used to holding on to a ball spinning the wrong way.

uh..well.. I never heard that opinion before...uh.. heh heh.. uh

 

[Marshall]

uh..well.. I never heard that opinion before...uh.. heh heh.. uh

Yeah. It's an old opinion from the dark ages. It was also used as a reason his completion percentage was lower than right handers.

That was in a era when there were right handers and wrong handers.

 

[powda]

uh..well.. I never heard that opinion before...uh.. heh heh.. uh

I've heard it mentioned more then once durring broadcasts as well.

 

[infantrycak]

I've heard it mentioned more then once durring broadcasts as well.

I've heard it mentioned "more than once" that there are aliens in Area 51. They're both stupid.

Have you never caught a football?

 

[JB]

I've heard it mentioned "more than once" that there are aliens in Area 51. They're both stupid.

Have you never caught a football?

There ARE aliens in area 51... illegal ones

The spin argument is silly, as is the supposition that Stabler or any other left handed QB "escaped" lots of interceptions because of it.

 

[DocBar]

For all of you Wentz fans out there:
Carson Wentz Meets With the Texans At the Senior Bowl

 

[DocBar]

Here's a list of all QB's drafted since 1980. It shows me just how risky a proposition finding the right one is.

Here's an interesting read: Which School is Quarterback U?

 

[powda]

Stabler escaped lots of interceptions because he was left handed. Defensive backs weren't used to holding on to a ball spinning the wrong way.

uh..well.. I never heard that opinion before...uh.. heh heh.. uh

I've heard it mentioned more then once durring broadcasts as well.

I've heard it mentioned "more than once" that there are aliens in Area 51. They're both stupid.

Have you never caught a football?

Some people have careers in broadcasting and football...instead of just moderating. Some people are hall of famers and describe the difference below.

Have you never caught a football?



http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-84168686/

Spin city
Jeff Christensen is certain he has at least part of the answer for the current shortage. A former NFL quarterback who was a fifth-round pick by the Bengals in 1983, Christensen runs and leads Throw It Deep, a quarterback and receiver training academy in the Chicago area. In rough numbers, Christensen said he's instructing 150 quarterbacks across all levels. Yet whereas in recent years he'd have 15 to 20 left-handers, at present he's tutoring only seven.
Part of the decline, Christensen is convinced, can be traced to wide receivers, the particular playmakers who like passes to settle into their hands with few complications. Yet lefty quarterbacks deliver a ball that spins differently than most receivers are accustomed to seeing.
Suddenly, rapport becomes harder to build.
"I truly believe the receivers drove the train in this whole deal," Christensen theorizes. "At the top, big-money receivers got more of a voice. And it filtered down to college, then down to high school and down below that."
Christensen's most notable work with a left-handed quarterback came with his son Jake, who won the IHSA Class 8A state championship at Lockport in 2003 and went on to become a starter at both Iowa and Eastern Illinois.
Jake Christensen believes there is some credence in his dad's theory.
But, says Jake, "I don't think a coach would ever have a scenario where it's, 'Look, I have this left-handed quarterback who is obviously much better than my right-handed quarterback. But I'm going to play the righty because the receivers like his ball more.' Still, the spin can lead to more drops. And if at the end of the day you have a righty with a 65 percent completion percentage and you have a lefty at 57 — even if the difference is based almost entirely on drops — that can affect a coach's thought process."
The spin complaints are familiar to Brunell and Greene. On deep balls in particular, both quarterbacks acknowledge that a left-hander's passes will turn over and tail left instead of right at the end, requiring an adjustment. But is that a huge deal?

http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/left-southpaw-quarterbacks-nearly-extinct/

The spin
Young ran into Esiason once in a while when they were pros. Young liked playing catch with him, another lefty, a freak like him.
“We’d have a catch,” said Young, “and I would think, ‘Man, that guy throws funny.’ ”
Visualize Esiason’s pass flying at your face. It’s spinning counter-clockwise. A righty’s pass spins clockwise. Esiason’s rotation is the opposite of normal. It looks different and, according to Brent Jones, it feels different, too. Jones caught passes from Montana and Young, so he should know.
“Maybe it’s because I grew up always catching a right-handed quarterback,” Jones said. “All of a sudden, to add a left-handed quarterback into the mix is like, ‘Oh, wow.’ ”
Receivers have the best hands in the world and they’re the best athletes on the team, but the spin still feels funky at first. So, receivers spend extra time at practice catching passes from the lefty quarterback to grow accustomed to the feel of his throws.
“I can’t tell you how many times I was throwing with a new receiver,” said Simms, “and either I would make the joke or one of the equipment guys would make the joke, ‘Oh, I forgot to bring out the left-handed footballs.’ And you’d be shocked at how many receivers would bite on that. ‘Oh, really? There are left-handed footballs?’ ”
The tail
When the quarterback throws the ball, the spin hits the air and the ball tails one way or the other. For a right-hander, it tails to the right. For a left-hander, it tails to the left. The tail is subtle on shorter passes and dramatic on deeper ones.
Think about it from the perspective of Fred Biletnikoff, the Raiders’ Hall of Fame flanker in the ’60s and ’70s. No team threw deep more often than the Raiders.
Biletnikoff lined up on the right — always. When Daryle Lamonica, a righty, threw deep to Biletnikoff, Lamonica’s pass would tail toward the sideline. If Biletnikoff ran a comeback route, Lamonica’s pass would tail away from him.
When Stabler threw deep down the right side, Biletnikoff knew the ball never would sail out of bounds — it would tail back into the field. And if he ran a comeback route, Stabler’s pass would tail toward him, not away from him.
“I thought it was more of an advantage, for me anyway, to have the flight of the ball coming in that direction,” Biletnikoff said of Stabler’s passes.

 

[infantrycak]

Have you never caught a football?

No really, have you never caught a football?

 

[powda]

No really, have you never caught a football?

And?

That's the type of mindless response I expected.

 

[Shishkabob]

And?

That's the type of mindless response I expected. Glad to educate you (again.)

eh dont worry to much about it, he gets butt hurt when people dont agree with him

 

[infantrycak]

And?

That's the type of mindless response I expected. Glad to educate you (again.)

And says no.

If you'd ever caught a football you'd know this is foolishness.

 

[powda]

And says no.

You expect me to recite my Al Bundy highschool football days or talk about running routes for a left handed college quarterback and believe it? There's no point. Most people dont get enough rotation on the ball to make a difference when your throwing it around in the yard. On the pro level? Well you read the articles didn't you? I guess not.

 

[infantrycak]

eh dont worry to much about it, he gets butt hurt when people dont agree with him

Do we have an issue because I don't even know who the f'k you are?

 

[JB]

So exciting when a disagreement over the meaning of a inconsequential statement devolves into personal attacks that go on and on and on. Gonna be a real long off-season

 

[JB]

Do we have an issue because I don't even know who the f'k you are?

maybe he's Texian in disguise? Or more likely, someone that got banned in his past life

 

[infantrycak]

You expect me to recite my Al Bundy football days or talk about running routes for a left handed college quarterback and believe it? There's no point. Most people dont get enough rotation on the ball to make a difference when your throwing it around in the yard. On the pro level? Well you read the articles didn't you? I guess not.

Well still not seeing where you say it makes a difference. If you say you have personal experience I'll believe you. Just not my experience. But hey, I was a DB and couldn’t catch.

 

[Shishkabob]

Do we have an issue because I don't even know who the f'k you are?

No i dont have an issue with you i just get a laugh at how defensive and hostile you get the moment someone disagrees with you

 

[Shishkabob]

maybe he's Texian in disguise? Or more likely, someone that got banned in his past life

I disagree with Texian way to much to be him in disguise lol

 

[infantrycak]

No i dont have an issue with you i just get a laugh at how defensive and hostile you get the moment someone disagrees with you

I'm hostile to stupid. Don't recall you being stupid.

 

[Texian]

I disagree with Texian way to much to be him in disguise lol

Maybe you're my alter ego? Forget about Cak, he's half Jackass and half Jerk.

 

[infantrycak]

Maybe you're my alter ego? Forget about Cak, he's half Jackass and half Jerk.

Hey give me some credit. I'm all jackass.

 

[powda]

Well still not seeing where you say it makes a difference. If you say you have personal experience I'll believe you. Just not my experience. But hey, I was a DB and couldn’t catch.

We played a wishbone offense in hs so being a wr you didn't get many chances per game. I played catch with a guy for maybe 20 minutes after a game once and he was a back up qb for UT or A&M - early 90's.I was a freshman and he was a buddy of one of the coaches. He kept overthrowing me on routes because he was used to taller and faster targets. I have no idea why he bothered to toss it with me or the other 2 wr's. His passes were drastically different. They literally hummed on ropes for 20-30 yards without effort (you could HEAR it spinning from the moment it left his hand till it hit the ground like a flock of birds flying by.) The left spin sucked! I knew guys who could HEAVE it 60 yards but this was the only guy I ever tossed with who had arm talent.

Had i not spent 20 minutes with the guy i'd likely think the same way you do.

Saw Gary Kubiak in our field house that year to one weekend. I knew who he was but didn't want to risk pissing off a coach to say hello.

 

[thunderkyss]

Hey give me some credit. I'm all jackass.

I'll second that.

 

[badboy]

What the world needs now is love, sweet love but the Texans need a QB and I care less which way he spins the ball