I agree and that's a great comparison. I think BOB has ability but has made some mistakes. I'm hopeful he's learned some lessons this season and we'll be a better team in the future because of it.
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Save us Savage!!!!!!!
- Thread starter PockyAF
- Start date
I agree and that's a great comparison. I think BOB has ability but has made some mistakes. I'm hopeful he's learned some lessons this season and we'll be a better team in the future because of it.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Barring any significant damage to his rotator cuff or labrum at the time of his A-C separation, I suspect he is most likely to be brought into the starting position, with undoubtedly a vet backup (NOT HOYER), and a rookie that still may not be picked in the 1st round.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Great analogy.............just hope OB proves to be a quicker learner...........and recognizes the need for change, and pursues and affects those positive-impacting changes here before he follows Carroll's path.
Watching one of the NFLN shows... I think "A football Life" with Belichick, I was surprised that he looked to Jimmy Johnson as a mentor. Not Parcells.
I'm sure he learned a lot from Parcells & probably still talks to him now, but I'd have never put Belichick & Jimmy Johnson in the same room, so it shocked me that he actually has the relationship he has with Jimmy Johnson & that they share so much in the way they think about NFL football.
It would be nice if O'Brien could find a mentor that would help him "re-evaluate" in the offseason. This off-season.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
The only mentor BoB really has is BB. I highly doubt they get together and evaluate BoB's season lol. He has to figure it out himself. Isn't Jim Bernhardt his "advisor"?
IMO one of our biggest issues on the offensive side of coaching is that we have way too many college coaches with very little if any NFL experience. They are just not cut out to be in this league.
Who are these offensive coaches with too little NFL experience? OB & Godsey coached in New England. Mike Devlin's been coaching in the NFL for a while, nine seasons with the Jets. Charles London has been with the Bears & Eagles before he was here. That's head coach, offensive line, & RBs.
Like I said, I never would have put Belichick & Johnson together. I'm hoping there's someone out there we don't know about with O'Briens ear.
EVOLVIST
Kid A
Yeah, and that's what I've been sayin', Doc. The need for change needs to happen now, like the 2016 season, now, because that timer for an NFL HC is really a'tickin'.
OB could very well pull it off. There are many things that I like about him, even though he hasn't earned my trust yet. O' what a crucible 2016 will be. Harden like steel or melt into the sludge.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
How do you know a car is good quality and fast just by looking at it on the show room floor ? You don't....
Norg
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
not much hes thrown a few passes he played QB in college Hope........ I guess he has got a shot yet at sucking
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I see it, just don't understand it. Savage has 1st round tools and intangibles too...I see no reason why where a guy was drafted should drastically change how you look at their potential when they have the same physical tools & intangibles unless there's something drastically different in how those tools are put to use when they play (accuracy, pocket awareness etc..).
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
I buy into Savage as much as hoyer
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
That's sad....
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Umm, no he has 4th round tools and intangibles. Hence where he was drafted.
I agree that where a guy gets drafted shouldn't necessarily predict what they can offer, but there's a difference between where a guy's graded and where he's drafted. And I'd disagree if you think Savage was a first round grade.
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Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I have more faith in Savage b/c he's got 1st round tools...b/c he's not a rookie...b/c he's been in this system longer than 2-3 weeks....
Weeden has better tools than Savage, was actually drafted in the 1st round, and flashed more ability in his limited time with the Texans than Savage ever has.
And I'm not suggesting the Texans shouldn't draft a 1st round QB because they have Weeden.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
You spoke of tools and intangibles...I took that to mean physical tools which is why i said what i said. His arm strength & physical stature is right up there with the crop of guys that are slated to come out this year & last year that everyone's clamoring for. If you meant something different then i misinterpreted what you meant. Regardless, we know the primary reason why Savage went in the 4th & to my knowledge, the majority of it had nothing to do with his tools and intangibles.
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michaelm
vox nihili
I don't think anyone in this thread has said they have complete faith in Savage to be the starter.
Several of us have shared what we think are good traits that he displays, and several of you have taken that to mean that we are anointing him as a pro bowler.
There is a middle ground people.
I listed the traits that I believe he exhibits, but nowhere have I stated he is the next starting QB.
It's just an evaluation.
Y'all are the ones drawing a line in the sand and taking sides as if we are on the Savage bandwagon.
So freaking all or nothing with some people with no middle ground or gray area.
Several of us have shared what we think are good traits that he displays, and several of you have taken that to mean that we are anointing him as a pro bowler.
There is a middle ground people.
I listed the traits that I believe he exhibits, but nowhere have I stated he is the next starting QB.
It's just an evaluation.
Y'all are the ones drawing a line in the sand and taking sides as if we are on the Savage bandwagon.
So freaking all or nothing with some people with no middle ground or gray area.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Not really. I think it has more to do with him being the unknown commodity among a group of misfits.
I've got zero faith in any of our QBs. I'd hope OB doesn't roll into next season thinking any of these cats are the answer. He and the Fluffer need to be aggressive in finding the one they think can take this team to the next level. Otherwise, it's same ole same ole
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Savage in his limited playing time as a rookie looked about the same as Weeden did in his time playing here as a 4 year vet.
“Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.”
―Edmund Burke
For a minute there I thought someone had pulled up an old Mallet thread. Or Keenum. Or some other backup/diamond in the rough quarterback flavor of the day.
―Edmund Burke
For a minute there I thought someone had pulled up an old Mallet thread. Or Keenum. Or some other backup/diamond in the rough quarterback flavor of the day.
When I say tools and intangibles I'm talking about more than just body size and arm strength. Accuracy, pocket awareness, processing speed, pro concepts. These are all things that can be observed and noted ... and they're all things Savage was lacking in coming out of school, all things that at least a couple of guys coming out this year have more of. He wasn't drafted only in the fourth after tearing it up at Pitt. He was drafted in the fourth after having a rocky college career, a decent senior year, and a big arm that saved him from being drafted even later.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
On what scale? Savage had a 51.9 rating v. Weeden's 107.7. That's not about the same.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Gotcha, I can see what you mean & pretty much agree with what you're saying..1st round tools was maybe a little strong from me. i still think that he's as good or better than at least half of these young guys coming out that will possibly earn 1st round grades though..Namely Cook & Lynch. How much do you estimate his rocky college career dropped him though? I'm asking you b/c you seem to be 1 of a few guys whose ego isn't hurt when someone disagrees with you on certain prospects. I look at it from the perspective of had he been able to play maybe 1 more season, he's not a 4th round guy, he's taken at least 1 round earlier.
Cars models typically have history and reviews. This is just a stupid comparison. Might as well say how do you know that apple doesn't taste like an orange. Savage hasn't done anything. He may be good, but for everyone to want to crown him as the savior doesn't make any sense to me.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Ever heard of a lemon, hence a lot of 1st round QBs. Then lets just trade up to the #1 spot, draft the best QB in the draft. That should take care of our QB troubles right ???
PHILLYTEXANFAN
Saddle Up Partner
Savage hasn't shown he ISNT worth being the starter either..... Give him a legit shot this year, THAN move on if it doesn't work
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
No scale, just the eye test. I didn't see Weeden make any play or throw that Savage couldn't have made. The difference was basically Weeden's veteran experience & the caliber of the teams each played against.
A little break down of the preseason games comparing all three QB's:
Dallas game:
Savage: 18-29 135 yds 2 TD's 1 INT 62% 81.8 QB rating
Mallett: 0-2 0 yds. 0 TD's ) INT's 0.00% 39.6 QB rating
Hoyer no stats
Saints game:
Savage: 5-7 58 yds 1 TD 0 INT 71.4% 135.7 QB rating
Hoyer: 7-11 82 yds 0 TD's 0 INT's 63.6% 86.2 QB rating
Mallett: 9-17 77 yds 1 TD 0 INT's 42.9% 84.7 QB rating
Denver game:
Savage: 15-24 168 yds 0 TD's 0 INT's 62.5% 83.3 QB rating
Hoyer: 7-11 52 yds 0 TD's 0 INT's 63.6% 74.8 QB rating
Mallett: 5-7 23 0 TD's 0 INT's 71.4% 75.3 QB rating
49ers game:
Savage: 8-14 97 yds 1 TD's 0 INT's 62.1% 102.4 QB rating
Hoyer: 2-4 67 yds 1 TD 0 INT's 50% 135.4 QB rating
Mallett: 10-11 90 yds 0 TD's 0 INT's 90.9% 100.8 QB rating
Preseason totals:
Savage: 46-74 458 yds 4 TD's 1 INT 62.1% 100.8 QB rating over 4 games
Hoyer: 16-26 201 yds 1 TD 0 INT 61.5% 98.8 QB rating over 3 games
Mallett: 24-37 190 yds 1 TD 0 INT 64.9% 75.1 QB rating over 4 games
All stats are from the box scores on ESPN.
Preseason is what it is, but I like how Savage has improved and I like his attitude about being on IR. IMO, he's going to force OB to give him a shot.
Dallas game:
Savage: 18-29 135 yds 2 TD's 1 INT 62% 81.8 QB rating
Mallett: 0-2 0 yds. 0 TD's ) INT's 0.00% 39.6 QB rating
Hoyer no stats
Saints game:
Savage: 5-7 58 yds 1 TD 0 INT 71.4% 135.7 QB rating
Hoyer: 7-11 82 yds 0 TD's 0 INT's 63.6% 86.2 QB rating
Mallett: 9-17 77 yds 1 TD 0 INT's 42.9% 84.7 QB rating
Denver game:
Savage: 15-24 168 yds 0 TD's 0 INT's 62.5% 83.3 QB rating
Hoyer: 7-11 52 yds 0 TD's 0 INT's 63.6% 74.8 QB rating
Mallett: 5-7 23 0 TD's 0 INT's 71.4% 75.3 QB rating
49ers game:
Savage: 8-14 97 yds 1 TD's 0 INT's 62.1% 102.4 QB rating
Hoyer: 2-4 67 yds 1 TD 0 INT's 50% 135.4 QB rating
Mallett: 10-11 90 yds 0 TD's 0 INT's 90.9% 100.8 QB rating
Preseason totals:
Savage: 46-74 458 yds 4 TD's 1 INT 62.1% 100.8 QB rating over 4 games
Hoyer: 16-26 201 yds 1 TD 0 INT 61.5% 98.8 QB rating over 3 games
Mallett: 24-37 190 yds 1 TD 0 INT 64.9% 75.1 QB rating over 4 games
All stats are from the box scores on ESPN.
Preseason is what it is, but I like how Savage has improved and I like his attitude about being on IR. IMO, he's going to force OB to give him a shot.
Playing musical schools definitely hurt his draft stock. Even more so it hurt is actual on field development. Had he had a place to settle into in college and learn a system front to back and thereby show his tools more efficiently maybe we could have seen more than a kid just winging a big arm, and sure he could have earned a higher grade. Likewise if he had had a chance to get on the field this year we may have seen him start to finally settle into a system somewhere. His career stock is still just completely up in the air though as of now.
And I agree that people too often get butthurt defending prospects, as though it's a measure of who they actually are. This is supposed to be fun.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
I'm perfectly fine with giving Savage a legitimate shot at the starting job next year. However, I do it with a 1st round QB trying to take the job from him. I would be perfectly fine with a 1st round QB sitting a couple years like Rodgers did if Savage proves capable.
Number19
Hall of Fame
That first round QB would be Weeden.
Next season, with our tough schedule, there is a reasonable chance, irregardless who the QB is, we could go 6-10 or 7-9.
We pick a QB in the 3rd or 4th and go into the season with Savage, Weeden and draft pick. We see if Savage is our QB. Then, if he hasn't secured the position, we draft a QB #1 in 2017. We go into the 2017 season with Savage, 2016 pick and the #1 2017 pick.
That 2017 first round selection will likely be considerably higher than 21 or 22.
Or maybe Savage proves to be our guy, negating the need to draft a QB at #1.
From what I saw of Weeden, I actually like him. He wasn't a slouch in Dallas this season, either. Dallas' defense gave up an average of 26.5 ppg when Weeden played and the offense averaged 18.5. I'd like to see a Savage, Weeden, Yates QB battle this offseason. Players are listed in alphabetical order, not order of preference. IF one of the top 5 QB prospects fall to the Texans in the 1st two rounds, I wouldn't be butt hurt if the Texans drafted him. I just don't want to see the team draft a QB in the 1st two rounds "just because we need a QB".
Why would you ditch Weeden and keep Savage when it was Savage who couldn't nail down the starting job in your scenario? And why not give Yates another shot? He looked pretty dang OK before tearing his ACL.
htowntexans1985
1st Round Pick
At this rate we'll be the Cleveland Browns. Neither of those guys are starting quarterbacks.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
I'm fine with Savage remaining here and if he shows he improved a great deal, being given a chance to start. There is still potential there even at 26.
But going into the season with him slated to be the starter and not taking another qb high in this draft?
That sounds like an awful idea.
But going into the season with him slated to be the starter and not taking another qb high in this draft?
That sounds like an awful idea.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
No. I would draft a QB in the first round this year at pick #22. If O'Brien sticks with Savage/Weeden/Yates, none of which have shown us enough to go into next season with confidence, then he deserves to get fired next season. I'm sick & tired of OB getting shitty QB's to be our starter. Draft a QB in the 1st round or do a Matt Schaub caliber trade to get your QB. Whatever he does, I don't care. Just make a ******* decision at the position already. Of course, we could say he already made his decisions at the position bringing in Hoyer/Fitzpatrick the past two seasons, but in that case he deserves to get fired now.
Norg
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Still tho looking at the first two years by going with Hoyer/Fitz/Mallett he almost got us to back to back post season berths so if we win the divison next year with misfit land of toys at QB then well hat would be good he just didn't know our QB would implode
Number19
Hall of Fame
It's just one possibility. Of course, Weeden might just beat out Savage.
I would take only three QB's into camp to maximize snaps. Yates is the odd man out. If we want 4 QB's in camp, I'd be fine with Yates.
OK, I don't know what to say about that. So I won't.
What I will say is, I don't really care how O'Brien fixes the QB position. As long as it's fixed. If he wants to try Savage, sign RG3, draft Hackenberg and give him the job as a rookie...fine. I don't care.
As long as his arse is on the line for the results. Because the results have to be there in 2016. I like O'Brien. I really do. I like the attitude this team has now. What I don't like is his stubbornness. And what I really don't like is how he has bumbled the QB position his 1st two seasons. Had O'Brien addressed the position from the jump, the Texans would be ready to roll in 2016. So he doesn't get the benefit of another two seasons to sort this out.
2016 or bust, Bill.
Number19
Hall of Fame
Worst case, it postpones taking the high draft QB one year. And in that case, the pick could be top 10 or top 15, given our tough schedule next season.
He would be slated to be the starter only if he wins the position in camp. Weeden may very well beat him out.
Savage is OB's 2014 selection over several other highly thought of prospects. Weeden was a former 1st round selection but is an unknown, although still showing promise this past season in limited action.
I'm wanting to upgrade the offense in other areas, particularly the OL, while seeing what we currently have in Savage and Weeden. Then we take a QB #1 in 2017 if we still need to.
I seem to have more patience in the building process than most on this board.
I have a hard ti
Continuity of the OL and upgrading skill positions would significantly upgrade this offense. Between inaccurate passes, dropped passes and 3 yards and a cloud of dust, this offense is far more than a QB away from being good. I'm good with Savage, Weeden and Yates as the QB's in 2016.
Number19
Hall of Fame
I wouldn't cry in my beer if it was Yates over a draft pick.
At 22, I'd almost cry tears of joy if they didn't pick a QB. I'm
Not real big on this years crop. It's either Goff or 3 d round to me.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
I don't expect anyone to care, and to have some "Bye Felicia's" thrown at me......
But if the Texans went into next year with that QB group, I'd just stop paying attention to them at all.
Going into the season with that group at QB would tell me the Texans simply don't give a F*ck.