Naija Texan
Waterboy
Yeah, seems like another issue where this team misunderstands a person's injury and sends them back out to sustain another one. Seems to be a bit of a trend and not just for Clowney, although he is the most visible.
Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread
- Thread starter Marshall
- Start date
Yeah, seems like another issue where this team misunderstands a person's injury and sends them back out to sustain another one. Seems to be a bit of a trend and not just for Clowney, although he is the most visible.
Might not be considered smart, but people play hurt. 8 games into the season, I doubt anyone is playing without some form of injury.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
I liked the pick. Especially with what was available at 1.1 that year. I still like him, but damn, the dude just can't catch a break health wise.
I don't think Crennel knows how to utilize him when he is healthy. I don't think he's meant to play the role he's been forced to play. He should stay in one spot with his hand in the dirt. Watt has proven he can play in a similar role that Clowney has been playing.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Do you understand that a ZBS team is going to cut the outside rusher? Doesn't matter if the depth chart says OLB or DE.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I hope you're not trying to equate Clowney with his post microfracture knee which can little tolerate any additional mechanics abnormalities (already dealing with recent ankle and now muscular hip/back injuries) to cracked ribs, which with wearing flack jackets today, besides requiring pain tolerance, affords little additional risk. If you want Clowney to have no chance of returning to any semblance of adequate performance, the best way to do it is to ignore any injuries further affecting normal lower limb or core mechanics.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
An educated opinion often differs from an uneducated one. I suspect there is little confidence in the sideline medical team by the coaches. That needs to be fixed and PRONTO.
The cause of this probable rift may be medical personnel who say what the coaches want to hear or visa versa. It may also be macho garbage about playing through INJURY like "in the old days."
Whatever the root cause, I see this as a greater problem than the GM or QB.
One of the more difficult memories I have is of jumping on the bandwagon the year JR Richard started complaining about arm troubles about his psychological problem rather than a physical one. He was extremely effective so it COULDN'T be physical.
Then he had the STROKE! I learned I shouldn't pretend to know what was going on when it comes to matters of medicine. Most coaches have not experienced this and have not progressed beyond it yet. But it is a lesson that can be learned without the experience.
We need competent medical people unafraid to deliver their best medical advice and coaches who defer to their judgement because they have confidence in those judgements.
Last edited:
Dre_80
Waterboy
Thats the problem. Hes trying hard yet he's not playing well. And please stop praising him for showing effort. The kid got 30 mil. guaranteed from us, he better show some effort. He hasn't done **** in 2 years, he's been robbing us. Its time for him to deliver and chip in a little. I know the injuries are a big issue and they have probably changed him as a player, I don't expect him to become an impact type guy, an elite pass rusher anymore at this point.
Mercilus was also a downlineman, a DE in college but now in his fourth year in the NFL he's finally acclimating to being a standup OLB while Clowney is basically still in his rookie year in the NFL. It takes time, and JD is coming around gradually.
It was indeed a really good game for Mecilus vs the Titans, but he still doesn't have the a talent and upside of Clowney.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
4 years $22 mil. It's not your money don't know why you are acting butt hurt over it.
The guy got injured. We'll never know what he would have looked like. Just bad luck.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Bi-polar post of the week...
I've seen some disruptive play from JD this year. He's basically a rookie, as far a playing time goes, and still trying to adjust to the speed of the game at the NFL level. Couple that with the injuries, I'm going to have a little patience and see what happens. Considering the microfracture surgery, I think all of us fans have considerably lower expectations for JD being a long term impact player.
PapaL
Loose Screw
This is my mindset as well. I figured mid to end of season things would start clicking. Coupled with a healthy off-season he'd be good to go next year.
If the medical and coaching staffs keep throwing a limping D out there, his offseason might start early. LOL
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
The thing that works somewhat against this scenario is the fact that the pseudo cartilage created following microfracture surgery of the knee will continue to buildup and strengthen only through the 1st 18 months, but will deteriorate following that period........and these are findings in the general population where there are not continuous severe stresses placed on the knee such as seen in an active tall heavy NFL football player.
I'm happy for Mercilus. & I understand he's playing a totally different position in the NFL than he's ever played in his life. Same as #1 overall JaDaveon Clowney.
But... these guys are LBs & need to drop into coverage & support pass protection. Our ILBs are a problem, but "never" expecting our OLBs to drop only exacerbates the situation. I understand you want your pass rushers rushing all the time, but when you add that unpredictabilty to your base package, it can only help.
It's a transition many college DEs have had to make... James Harrison for one.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
He had injury concerns due to the bone spurs from his last college season. He had production issues which many tried to spin as the bone spurs ailing him. Most objective people saw a guy that lacked effort on the field that didn't go all out on every play. This team has had him for 28 games since he was drafted and literally nothing to show for it.
The only guys that are still excusing this bust of a pick are the folks that bought into this hype machine before that draft and excused the mistake of not drafting a QB or a productive defensive player that didn't have tons of concerns like Clowney did. Those guys see that train wreck now, and don't want to call it what it is.
The woosification by a lot of Texans fans over the years to spin the busted draft picks of Rick Smith especially by guys that are robbing the Texans still is as sad as its ever been. That is why. It's hard to watch.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Clowney has been every bit the bust that Texian, myself, and a few others promised.
10 years strong and you're still picking little cat fights for yourself on behalf of Rick Smith's failures. Where has any of this gotten you? After this long I would have thought you would have given up on that failed fight. It's like the guy whose wife is cheating with every guy in town, but he simply refuses to accept that his wife isn't dirty. Meanwhile, everyone else stops feeling bad for him, because his loyalty becomes a faithful ignorance to a fault. Clowney is just another major miss of an opportunity of Rick Smith's logic.
Dre_80
Waterboy
How am I acting butt hurt? Nobody wants to hear this "he shows effort" crap. David Carr showed effort, what does that mean? He still sucked. I didn't hate the guy, I didn't think he was lazy. People act like this guy deserves a medal for showing up to work and for TRYING. Great, he's like any other decent human being that is being paid money to do something. That's not something to praise him for. It's the least thing you can ask for when you pay him 20+ million dollars and you give up a top draft choice on top of that. We've gotten 1 sack in 2 years out of him. Do I blame him for the injuries? No. It sucks but that doesn't mean he's been an impact player for us, that he was worth the pick, worth the money. He wasn't. Maybe he'll turn it around? Miracles happen. Maybe he'll shake off the injury bug and get completely healthy somehow which physically isn't even possible considering all the damage in his legs/knees after all those surgeries. At the end of the day it doesn't matter if he's lazy, injured or just plain sucks. It changes the way you look at him but business wise it doesn't matter.
Dude, do you even know what argument you're making at this point?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
10 years strong & you still can't seem to stick to the facts instead choosing to apply misplaced analogies to your backwards ass logic...Dude had microfracture surgery on his knee in large part b/c he was hustling after the qb trying to sack him & is in the process of trying to make it back from that. Cloak has detailed in numerous threads just how long it really takes for a player to come back to their true self (or at least what you will be going forward).......Your ass comes in here talking about bone spurs in a completely different part of his body and cite effort as a reason for his lack of production...and why he's a bust when there's fundamentally no evidence that any of that has been a cause for his production Are you kidding me?
& for good measure, you somehow interpret me not ready to declare Clowney a bust as to me defending Rick Smith. Lol, I honestly don't even know why i respond to you anymore...Do me a favor and ignore my posts from here on out, you're beyond rational thought at this point.
I agree.
My contention before the draft was we need a whole lot more than one player and you don't put all your eggs in one basket. The pick had more value than could be realized from drafting one player being that there was no "possible" franchise QB (see Luck and so far even he may be questionable) you trade down. So keeping the pick was the major miss in my mind.
What trade down did they not accept?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Exactly.....easier said than done. This aint the NBA 2k...you trade down guys fail to understand that there has to be a willing party to execute that trade down. We know what the pts. chart says about what you should get for #1 overall picks....& I'm sure most of you..including myself would've been screaming bloody murder if Ricky accepted any deal less than what the draft trade chart said he was supposed to get.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
From what I remember, there were rumors that the Texans were trying to trade down, but no takers. It's just plain bad luck that the three times the Texans had the #1 overall, there were no consensus top QB in the draft.
The bolded assumes that this wasn't a pre-existing condition from his college years. It certainly wasn't from landing on a seam in the middle of a pallet.
In truth, the Texans own medical brain trust never did an MRI last year until AFTER putting him back out on the field, AFTER having him undergo surgery on the meniscus tear. That's when they discovered the cartilage issue and IR'd him for the micro-fracture surgery.
There's a decent likelihood that the Texans bought damaged goods...and wasted a pick. This wasn't Nix in the 3rd round, this was 1-1, the player you expect to be a cornerstone.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
The last team to pull off the trade down scenario was the rams.....& they
Don't these guys go thru extensive physicals at the combine though? Have to believe it would've been seen then by NFL medical personnel if it was indeed a pre-existing condition.
Regardless, it still doesn't negate what I said about what's been going on with him having nothing to with frickin' bone spurs and effort.
In fact, everything this kid has done in getting back from the surgery on his knee and when he's been healthy and on the field runs contrary to lack of effort, work ethic or whatever adjective folks want to use to describe him.
Don't these guys go thru extensive physicals at the combine though? Have to believe it would've been seen then by NFL medical personnel if it was indeed a pre-existing condition.
Regardless, it still doesn't negate what I said about what's been going on with him having nothing to with frickin' bone spurs and effort.
In fact, everything this kid has done in getting back from the surgery on his knee and when he's been healthy and on the field runs contrary to lack of effort, work ethic or whatever adjective folks want to use to describe him.
The combine physicals will catch glaring issues, but not mri-level scans. He skipped position drills at the combine for what he said was a hip-flexor issue.
I've got no issue with his effort though. From what I've seen, he can certainly "bring it". I just think we bought a damaged player. That's on Rick and the brain-trust though.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
FYI, through the pre-Draft process, at least 1 team knew that Clowney would need surgery for a sports hernia. He played through 2013 with not only a bone spur problem, but with a "groin injury." Clowney was known to have almost cancelled his Pro Day because of it. A sad follow up to the Ed Reed fiasco.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Yep, I said before the draft that if you liked Aundray Bruce then you're going to love JaDeveon Clowney.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Does predicting failure make you happy? Are you happier being right or wrong when you do it?
Texian
Hall of Fame
No, I just try and get it right, that's all. You know, like Leroy Jethro Gibbs and Abby Sciuto. No agenda, harder to get it right if there is. The Clowney saga much like Bruce story, both same size, both played DE in college, both OLB in the Pros, both 1st pick in the draft, Bruce was touted as the next Lawrence Taylor, Clowney is going to be the best ever. Clowney's 3 sacks in his final college year said no he's not the greatest, he may be a little bit better than average. His 1 tackle against Michigan blew up his fame and notoriety and made him out to be much more than he is. I find satisfaction in being right and being right doesn't = failure. To the contrary. For my next prediction, you'll find fault and disagree with this post because that's what you do. How do I know? There's a strong pattern of behavior there.
Last edited:
Norg
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
well we are stuck with him for 2 more years so guess we better get what we can get outta him ..............
its kinda fun tho to look back think of all the other great players we could of got for that No 1 pick o heck even traded back ...... o well that's rick smith and the Texans for ya
its kinda fun tho to look back think of all the other great players we could of got for that No 1 pick o heck even traded back ...... o well that's rick smith and the Texans for ya
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I don't know what anyone is crowing about. Nothing we were predicting has come about. He had a fluke knee injury. I argued at length with CnD on this one and he still said he would take Clowney. Frankly gloating over bad result = bad result "I am king" is more than a little jackass.
Mike Vrabel sees progress from oft-injured Texans linebacker Jadeveon Clowney
*******************************************************************
Despite a myriad of injuries limiting his production since being drafted first overall last year, Texans outside linebacker Jadeveon Clowney has flashed skill and instincts. At least when he’s healthy.
That’s been the primary obstacle blocking Clowney’s contributions, appearing in seven games with six starts this season while dealing with a sprained right ankle, a lower back injury and an illness. Last season, Clowney had seven tackles and no sacks in four games and two starts while undergoing microfracture knee surgery, a meniscus procedure, a sports hernia surgery and dealing with a concussion.
This year, Clowney has 21 tackles, one sack and a forced fumble with three pass deflections.
“I think his progress is when he has been healthy and when he has been able to work for us, he works,” said linebackers coach Mike Vrabel of Clowney, a former college defensive end who’s signed to a four-year, $22.272 million guaranteed contract that includes a $14.518 million signing bonus. “I think we just have to continue to show him what it is to be a 3-4 outside linebacker, show him what we want, teach him what we want from an end. There are certain packages that he’s an end and there are certain packages where he is an outside linebacker.
“No different than we did with John Simon, when he first got here last year, and with Whitney (Mercilus), JD is the same. He is continuing to learn. He is always, he wants to be going forward and we need to keep him going forward the best that we can, but there are certain things that, he’s got good instincts, I think that when he can drop, he’s done a good job of that as well.”
http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexan...t-injured-texans-linebacker-jadeveon-clowney/
*******************************************************************
Despite a myriad of injuries limiting his production since being drafted first overall last year, Texans outside linebacker Jadeveon Clowney has flashed skill and instincts. At least when he’s healthy.
That’s been the primary obstacle blocking Clowney’s contributions, appearing in seven games with six starts this season while dealing with a sprained right ankle, a lower back injury and an illness. Last season, Clowney had seven tackles and no sacks in four games and two starts while undergoing microfracture knee surgery, a meniscus procedure, a sports hernia surgery and dealing with a concussion.
This year, Clowney has 21 tackles, one sack and a forced fumble with three pass deflections.
“I think his progress is when he has been healthy and when he has been able to work for us, he works,” said linebackers coach Mike Vrabel of Clowney, a former college defensive end who’s signed to a four-year, $22.272 million guaranteed contract that includes a $14.518 million signing bonus. “I think we just have to continue to show him what it is to be a 3-4 outside linebacker, show him what we want, teach him what we want from an end. There are certain packages that he’s an end and there are certain packages where he is an outside linebacker.
“No different than we did with John Simon, when he first got here last year, and with Whitney (Mercilus), JD is the same. He is continuing to learn. He is always, he wants to be going forward and we need to keep him going forward the best that we can, but there are certain things that, he’s got good instincts, I think that when he can drop, he’s done a good job of that as well.”
http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexan...t-injured-texans-linebacker-jadeveon-clowney/
I was really impressed with the way he uses hands. It was somethinghe lacked coming out of college & with all the off time due to injury, you can tell he put in some work.
silvrhand
All Pro
Texans OLB Jadeveon Clowney (back) has yet to resume practicing, and coach Bill O'Brien is unsure of his status.
BOB had previously called Clowney day to day, but now it sounds like he'll miss Sunday's game against the Bengals. Nov 9 - 1:58 PM
Source: Aaron Wilson on Twitter
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Throwing him back into the last game after his initial hip/back injury while he was still limping is just another example of how the Texans seem to be trying everything to ensure that Clowney never has a chance to regain any semblance of productivity.
The particular knee injury Clowney had is career ending for most players. He could be an exception if lucky. Physical
I agree....playing Clowney (and other players too ) when he isn't 100% is criminal....This has become a sick MO of this coaching staff. Coaches desperate to do anything to save their asses from being replaced. I'm burned out on trashing the owner/GM/coaches cause none of them are getting fired & maybe ( that's a real big maybe) at some point they'll get it together but putting your key players in games when they aren't 100% ready and are trying to come back from serious injuries is really hard to stomach.
Dread-Head
Hall of Fame
After a year and a half he finally got a sack. Draft pic well spent.
The outside linebacker, who left the Week 8 win over Tennessee with a back injury, took part on a limited basis Wednesday morning at the Houston Methodist Training Center.
"He was out there and he's day-to-day," head coach Bill O'Brien said. "But it was good to see him out there in pads."
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/a...practice/7fb1db26-a1eb-4e5f-9544-79c60c432a5a
"He was out there and he's day-to-day," head coach Bill O'Brien said. "But it was good to see him out there in pads."
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/a...practice/7fb1db26-a1eb-4e5f-9544-79c60c432a5a
Dread-Head
Hall of Fame
I remember the first game of last season when someone didn't pronounce his name correctly and he sprained his baby toe.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Better than most expected? Lol! Speak for yourself.
A lot of you have no business criticizing the coaches or even Rick Smith, when the players these guys choose get a pass. The players are who the GM picked, but the somehow they get a pass for making the GM look bad? Bizarre.
Clowney is on the same list as Jamarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf right now.
badboy
Hall of Fame
My comment stands. Most and IIRC you did not expect him to do anything this season. You are probably speaking about his career and I did not. I did not want Clowney; nor do I want Smith and would not be oppositional if OBrien was fired.
Russell IIRC was fat and had no talent and Leaf was just pure failure; neither can be said for Clowney, who has shown when healthy to have skills and speed.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Same folks who said Clowney would bust said Bortles would boom ... just sayin'
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I don't remember anyone saying Bortles would boom! I was one of the ones that was very high on him, and I still am. He has potential, and he would have easily been a better pick. That can't be argued at all at this point. BOrtles has put up some really nice numbers offensively as of late. His INT numbers need to go down, but his yards keep increasing and he is getting more TD passes. He needs more weapons, and a better defense and he'd have more wins.