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49ers @ Texans, 7:00 PM **Official GameDay Thread** Preseason Game 1

One thing I noticed is that OB had Polk and Blue on the punt coverage team and each was the first player to reach the return guy and each looked bad and missed the tackle. I don't understand having offensive players running down to make tackles. These guys should be DB's and LB's. Maybe because it's just a pre-season game.
 
Number19 said:
One thing I noticed is that OB had Polk and Blue on the punt coverage team and each was the first player to reach the return guy and each looked bad and missed the tackle. I don't understand having offensive players running down to make tackles. These guys should be DB's and LB's. Maybe because it's just a pre-season game.
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Pretty routine practice. There's only so many speedy backups with the right size to fill the spots.

I don't get the folks who are happy with the RBs this evening. 3, 2.9 and .8 is not a good outing for the committee.
 
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infantrycak said:
Pretty routine practice. There's only so many speedy backups with the right size to fill the spots.

I don't get the folks who are happy with the RBs this evening. 3, 2.9 and .8 is not a good outing for the committee.
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Your stats are off. Blue ran 9 for 59; 6.6 ypc.
 
Tom Savage had nice touch on his balls and made good decisions. Why not roll with him to start the season? He has a higher upside than any of the other 2 QBs (admittedly it is not that high). I have heard from someone who's kid is working at TC that its not close. Hoyer is beating Mallett every day in practice :(. I would rather see Savage or Mallett than Hoyer. Hoyer can't make NFL throws the other 2 can make. Watch our game against Cleveland last year. Hoyer missed so many damn throws it was ridiculous.
 
TexansFight said:
Tom Savage had nice touch on his ball,made good decisions. Why not roll with him to start the season? He has a higher upside than any of the other 2 QB amittedly it is not that high). I have heard from someone who's kid is working at TC that its not close. Hoyer is beating Mallett every day in practice :(. I would rather see Savage or Mallett than Hoyer. Hoyer can't make NFL throws the other 2 can make. Watch our game against Cleveland last year. Hoyer missed so many damn throws it was ridiculous.
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I'll take that with a grain of salt about Hoyer beating out Mallet that badly. Still, there's a part of me that says perhaps Hoyer is just best suited for the NE style of offense, which means that he hasn't been used right since he left.

In other words, let the best man win, but Mallet's command of the offense from my armchair looks like a high caliber starting QB.

I'll bet that next game we see Mallet start with the ones. What Hoyer got wasn't very many reps even if he IS the favorite at the moment.

To your original point about Savage, it would sure be nice to see him with the ones before the preseason is over, but it's not likely to happen.

If Savage keeps growing, however, he might just be the future of this team. He shows signs. You never know how it will look a couple of years from now.
 
I also liked what I saw from Savage. He repeatedly got out of trouble when the blocking broke down on him. Other times he stood in the face of the rush and took a couple of hits while making a quality throw. And he was the only one of the three who actually threw a couple of deep balls. The other two guys didn't even seem to look deep.
 
hradhak said:
The offense looked a lot better than I expected them to. All 3 QBs looked good. The 2nd string O line and defense were the clear weakness in this game.
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Which line are you considering the 2nd team OL?

The line that came out on Mallet's first drive was more of a shuffle than anything; Newton at LT, Ben Jones at LG, Ferenze at C, Brandon Brooks at RG, and Jeff Adams at RT. We'll probably never see that line-up during the season , but those guys may be playing those spots due to injury.

Mallet's second series, he came out with Lamm at Lt, Mancz at LG, Ferentz at Center, White at RG, and Aaron Adams at RT. Ferentz & Mancz are likely the only ones to make the 53. Maybe White.
 
thunderkyss said:
Which line are you considering the 2nd team OL?

The line that came out on Mallet's first drive was more of a shuffle than anything; Newton at LT, Ben Jones at LG, Ferenze at C, Brandon Brooks at RG, and Jeff Adams at RT. We'll probably never see that line-up during the season , but those guys may be playing those spots due to injury.

Mallet's second series, he came out with Lamm at Lt, Mancz at LG, Ferentz at Center, White at RG, and Aaron Adams at RT. Ferentz & Mancz are likely the only ones to make the 53. Maybe White.
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We'll be carrying two backup OT's. J. Adams will be one. I have A. Adams as the second, although this slot is available to be taken.

I have White being our first backup at OG. I have Mancz as the second, although this is the first word I've seen that Mancz has been taking snaps at OG. Both can backup OC. Mancz played most of the second half (maybe all).

Ferentz seems to be a favorite. I don't see him making the squad, but we'll see. I don't think it likely that both Ferentz and Mancz make the 53 unless we carry ten OL'men, which I think is unlikely. One will go to the PS.

How do you see the OL shaking out on the final 53?
 
PapaL said:
Your stats are off. Blue ran 9 for 59; 6.6 ypc.
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Although I am rooting for Blue to step up, I have to tether my enthuisiasm for Blue's stats this game. You're correct, Blue did run 9 for 59 ypc. But when you look at those numbers closer, you have to note that 32 yds came on ONE of his runs............leaving a 27 yd performance on the remainder of his 8 carries.......for 3.4 ypc.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Although I am rooting for Blue to step up, I have to tether my enthuisiasm for Blue's stats this game. You're correct, Blue did run 9 for 59 ypc. But when you look at those numbers closer, you have to note that 32 yds came on ONE of his runs............leaving a 27 yd performance on the remainder of his 8 carries.......for 3.4 ypc.
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YPC is part of the equation, catching and blocking are the others. Next week I expect us to be slinging the ball to get a better handle on pass pro and receiving from our RBs, against a very good rush defense.

Yesterday's offensive game was more about getting guys on film - 60/40 run to pass. Of the 20 completions we had 13 different receivers.

We dominated time of possession, no turnovers and 50%+ on 3rd down conversions. The recipe for success is there, consequently I liked what I saw for the first pre season game.
 
TexansFight said:
Tom Savage had nice touch on his balls and made good decisions. Why not roll with him to start the season? He has a higher upside than any of the other 2 QBs (admittedly it is not that high). I have heard from someone who's kid is working at TC that its not close. Hoyer is beating Mallett every day in practice :(. I would rather see Savage or Mallett than Hoyer. Hoyer can't make NFL throws the other 2 can make. Watch our game against Cleveland last year. Hoyer missed so many damn throws it was ridiculous.
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Remember Savage pouted & stomped away from Rutgers because he wasn't the unquestioned starter. He then did it again when he learned Arizona wasn't going to feature his talents either.

I'd like to see Savage get to a level where he feels he's on Apr with the other two to see how he acts, knowing he won't get to start. How does he prepare? If he gets an opportunity will he be ready?
 
beerlover said:
Another bright spot for sure but do you think Texans might stash him on PS & give Bonnor the nod since he looks like a better receiver option?
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Tough decision for sure. But I got to thinking, a kick returner is going to get the ball at least 8-10 times a game. If Worthy can prove he can handle the kicks cleanly and without fumbling, then I think his value to the team would be greater than with Bonner handling the kicks plus spot duty as a receiver. We have three more games to see how it all shakes out, but right now, I'm giving the nod to Worthy. I see Mumphery as getting more snaps as receiver than Bonner.
 
Number19 said:
How do you figure. Giving up only 10 to 17 points per game is maybe 3 to 4 KO's. Plus 5-6 punt returns. This is pretty good defense.
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How I figure it is kicks and punts are separate. It's right there on the depth chart. And very often probably most of the time they are not the same person.
 
Mollywhopper said:
I don't think Bonner looks that much better a receiver option.
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Not as returner for sure, Worthy has nose for seams in return duties, not as explosive as Holiday but more straight ahead.

Texans have more Wr's than even listed by ourlads. So I think they will likely keep six active & stash couple on practice squad. Therefor I would expect Bonner to be #6. However first injury(s) Worthy will be worthy of a call up, then he has better chance to stick as primary returner/slot WR. Both Bonnor & Johnson are coming off injury's.

53-
Hopkins
Short
Washington
Neachukwu
Johnson
Bonnor

PS-
Mumphrey
Worthy
Labhart
Davis

Cut-
Keshawn Martin
 
beerlover said:
Not as returner for sure, Worthy has nose for seams in return duties, not as explosive as Holiday but more straight ahead.

Texans have more Wr's than even listed by ourlads. So I think they will likely keep six active & stash couple on practice squad. Therefor I would expect Bonner to be #6. However first injury(s) Worthy will be worthy of a call up, then he has better chance to stick as primary returner/slot WR. Both Bonnor & Johnson are coming off injury's.

53-
Hopkins
Short
Washington
Neachukwu
Johnson
Bonnor

PS-
Mumphrey
Worthy
Labhart
Davis

Cut-
Keshawn Martin
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BL, aren't you forgetting Strong?
 
I've never really understood having two players handling return duties, although I'm aware that this is often the case. I'm seeing Worthy as a return specialist handling both duties. If not, then the value of carrying someone solely as a returner goes down.

Which two players do you see as making the 53 who would handle KO's and punts?
 
beerlover said:
53-
Hopkins
Short
Washington
Neachukwu
Johnson
Bonnor

PS-
Mumphrey
Worthy
Labhart
Davis

Cut-
Keshawn Martin
Click to expand...

53
Hopkins
Washington
Shorts
Strong
Mumphrey
Worthy

PS? - Is Labhart and EZ even eligible for the PS anymore?

I'm afraid that if you put Mumphrey on the PS he'll get snatched up. This is a star ready to happen, and from all TC reports he's been like a vet out there. More so than Strong, even?
 
EVOLVIST said:
53
Hopkins
Washington
Shorts
Strong
Mumphrey
Worthy

PS? - Is Labhart and EZ even eligible for the PS anymore?

I'm afraid that if you put Mumphrey on the PS he'll get snatched up. This is a star ready to happen, and from all TC reports he's been like a vet out there. More so than Strong, even?
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I like it. Trending forward certainly possible. Troy produces flashy players & excited that Mumphrey looks like transition to NFL already better than fellow MSU 4th rd. selection Keshawn!
 
Number19 said:
I've never really understood having two players handling return duties, although I'm aware that this is often the case. I'm seeing Worthy as a return specialist handling both duties. If not, then the value of carrying someone solely as a returner goes down.

Which two players do you see as making the 53 who would handle KO's and punts?
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Years ago when this question came up, I tried to point out the skill sets for each is quite different. This article articulates well this important differentiation. Few have ever managed to excel in both.
Why do teams have different punt and kickoff returners?
17 November 08


Leon Washington does it all for the Jets, averaging 29.6 yards on kickoff returns and 12.9 yards on punt returns.
Despite the fact that returning kickoffs and returning punts seem to require similar skills, most teams in the NFL employ different players for each job. This year only seven teams have a player who has fielded 15 punts and 15 kicks so far. There are, of course, some notable exceptions. Return specialists like Chicago’s Devin Hester and Buffalo’s rookie Leodis McKelvin can do it all. But most others end up concentrating on one skill or the other. Why?

“Punt return and kickoff return are two totally different things,” said veteran dual returner Allen Rostrum. “They are two totally different balls. One is a tight spiral that at times turns over and at times doesn’t. Kickoff is an easier catch because it is a spiral and you can tell where it is going to land. It’s a totally different mindset. You can run forward and catch a kickoff return. Not many people can run forward with a full head of steam and catch a punt. You have to be set with punt returns because the ball can change at any moment because of the style of kick that it is.”

It’s not just fielding the kick that is different. Kickoffs can be more dangerous because the coverage team has built up speed and the returner runs right into them (Take it from Tim Brown). On punt coverage players are more likely to slow down. This means that teams aren’t willing to risk good position players on kick return. They tend to choose straight-forward speedsters who can secure the ball well.

Punt returners have to make a lot more decisions quickly. Only about half of all punts are returned. The player must decide in a split second whether to let the punt go, to fair catch, or to try for a return. If he does go for it, he must have not have excellent footwork and agility in addition to speed. While kickoff returners need to follow their blockers, see the hole, and hit it, punt returners usually have to elude a tackler or two immediately. They cannot build up speed before they must cut left and right.

Devin Hester, by the way, has seen a great drop in return production this year, causing the Bears to replace him on kick-offs last week. Perhaps multi-tasking is impossible.
Click to expand...
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Although I am rooting for Blue to step up, I have to tether my enthuisiasm for Blue's stats this game. You're correct, Blue did run 9 for 59 ypc. But when you look at those numbers closer, you have to note that 32 yds came on ONE of his runs............leaving a 27 yd performance on the remainder of his 8 carries.......for 3.4 ypc.
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I love most of your post and they are typically very helpful, however in this case I don't see the logic. Doesn't this apply to every running back, well ever? You can't take out the longer runs and say "well if you don't count the runs over 10 yards he is only averaging 3 ypc". Because every running back is that way.

Carry 1 - 2 yard loss
Carry 2 - 3 yard gain
Carry 4 - 5 yard gain
Carry 5 - 15 yard gain

Guy is terrible if I don't include the 15 yard gain. But I'm sure if you look at most running backs carry by carry this is more the norm than the outlier. If you had a running back that truly averaged 5.5 ypc on every run and never broke off a 30 yard run everyone would say, solid back but lacks big play potential.

I would be completely happy with a back that averages 3.4 ypc on the mundane (move the chains plays) those runs on 1st and 2nd leave the team in 3rd and short every time, and has the ability to break off 2 or 3 10-15 yard runs per game.

15 carries at 3.5 = 52.5
4 carries at 10 = 40

Yeah I'll take the 19 carries for 92 yards.
 
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--houstontexans.com
 
FuzzyLogic said:
Yeah I'll take the 19 carries for 92 yards.
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And every coach around just about would prefer a back that nailed down steady 4.85 ypc.

It matters how you get there. Steady 4+ is a whole lot of 3rd and 2s and a bunch of 1st downs. 1 32 yarder in with a bunch of 1-3 yd runs is one 1st down and a lot of punts after failed 3rd and 6-7s.
 
DeAndre Hopkins and Jaelen Strong are two physical beasts with size. They could become the next Julio Jones and Roddy White of the Falcons. We may soon have the two youngest and best WR duo in the league.
 
infantrycak said:
And every coach around just about would prefer a back that nailed down steady 4.85 ypc.
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I'm not so sure on this in today's NFL, seems most are preferring people with big play potential over a steady 4.5 per carry. Maybe I should just keep my mouth shut since I don't currently have the time to go and look or do the research but I would be hard pressed to name a back that is averaging 4.5+ ypc if you take out any runs longer than say 8+?

That is the basic point I am trying to make. Is a runner like Blue really any different than your average starting running back in ypc.
 
FuzzyLogic said:
I love most of your post and they are typically very helpful, however in this case I don't see the logic. Doesn't this apply to every running back, well ever? You can't take out the longer runs and say "well if you don't count the runs over 10 yards he is only averaging 3 ypc". Because every running back is that way.

Carry 1 - 2 yard loss
Carry 2 - 3 yard gain
Carry 4 - 5 yard gain
Carry 5 - 15 yard gain

Guy is terrible if I don't include the 15 yard gain. But I'm sure if you look at most running backs carry by carry this is more the norm than the outlier. If you had a running back that truly averaged 5.5 ypc on every run and never broke off a 30 yard run everyone would say, solid back but lacks big play potential.

I would be completely happy with a back that averages 3.4 ypc on the mundane (move the chains plays) those runs on 1st and 2nd leave the team in 3rd and short every time, and has the ability to break off 2 or 3 10-15 yard runs per game.

15 carries at 3.5 = 52.5
4 carries at 10 = 40

Yeah I'll take the 19 carries for 92 yards.
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I appreciate your take, but when 8 runs go essentially nowhere and only one run goes very well, those stats will make me still think about a high ypc............ until I see a consistency of ypc over the longer haul.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Although I am rooting for Blue to step up, I have to tether my enthuisiasm for Blue's stats this game. You're correct, Blue did run 9 for 59 ypc. But when you look at those numbers closer, you have to note that 32 yds came on ONE of his runs............leaving a 27 yd performance on the remainder of his 8 carries.......for 3.4 ypc.
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While I understand your reluctance to get your hopes up, I also note that a good run or two alongside mediocre production often separates those mediocre and the good. Four or five good rune alongside mediocre production get's into star territory. Getting 7 and 8 yards a pop is usually a sign of a dominating line rather than a dominating back.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I appreciate your take, but when 8 runs go essentially nowhere and only one run goes very well, those stats will make me still think about a high ypc............ until I see a consistency of ypc over the longer haul.
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Blue still lacks vision IMO. To be honest regardless of numbers I liked Polk running style and Hillard next. Blue IMO needs to really improve patience and vision.
 
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Marshall said:
While I understand your reluctance to get your hopes up, I also note that a good run or two alongside mediocre production often separates those mediocre and the good. Four or five good rune alongside mediocre production get's into star territory. Getting 7 and 8 yards a pop is usually a sign of a dominating line rather than a dominating back.
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Or a good quarterback.
 
Number19 said:
Tough decision for sure. But I got to thinking, a kick returner is going to get the ball at least 8-10 times a game. If Worthy can prove he can handle the kicks cleanly and without fumbling, then I think his value to the team would be greater than with Bonner handling the kicks plus spot duty as a receiver. We have three more games to see how it all shakes out, but right now, I'm giving the nod to Worthy. I see Mumphery as getting more snaps as receiver than Bonner.
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I assume you are combining Kick returns and Punt returns to reach that number at 4-5 each. Perhaps a bit more in a turnover free game.
 
Number19 said:
I've never really understood having two players handling return duties, although I'm aware that this is often the case. I'm seeing Worthy as a return specialist handling both duties. If not, then the value of carrying someone solely as a returner goes down.

Which two players do you see as making the 53 who would handle KO's and punts?
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The primary difference is acting as a safety in the event of a fake for punt returners. Kick offs are pretty vanilla until the end of the game when safeties are often brought in to protect from onside kick recoveries. This is why you tend to see more defensive backs returning punts and WRs returning kicks.
 
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CloakNNNdagger said:
Years ago when this question came up, I tried to point out the skill sets for each is quite different. This article articulates well this important differentiation. Few have ever managed to excel in both.
Click to expand...
Good read and an excellent explanation of the difference between the two. It also highlights the value which can be placed on those players who can do both and last night Worthy had opportunities as both kick returner and punt returner. We need improvement on the 6.1 yds on punt returns and the 21.1 yds on kickoff returns we had last year and Worthy has the quickness and speed to provide this if he can handle the duel responsibility.
 
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