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Joseph extended (formerly Texans shopping Jonathan Joseph?)

CloakNNNdagger said:
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Sometimes rumors have no basis and sometimes they are just part of a ploy by either the team or the player's agent. I suspect a simple feel for his market value (pretty much a continuous process) has become the basis of SHOPPING his services.

If the Texans think he has lost value, it gives them the information required for an extension proposal or a basis for finding his replacement.
 
Brandon420tx said:
I don't know why people are arguing this. Cak is right. There is no value in trading Joseph unless you get a player who beefs up the team long term. Cap space at this point doesn't matter, it's not like there are FA's out there worth 8.5M
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FYI, there is some benefit in 2016 from cap space in 2015 due to rollover. But it probably won't be a deciding factor in the analysis. I suspect it has more to do with deciding whether to seek an extension or not and at what price. Three high caliber Corners is becoming a necessity it the pass happy league and in particular our division.
 
mussop said:
Not the last two years he wasn't. He's become an average CB. He defiantly isn't worth what we are paying him.
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Average or not isn't the question here in my mind. Bigger question is does the FO think Johnson is day one ready or any of the depth behind JJo is ready to take his place?

I'm not so sure of either. I think it'd be a mistake to trade or cut him at this point.
 
Goldensilence said:
Average or not isn't the question here in my mind. Bigger question is does the FO think Johnson is day one ready or any of the depth behind JJo is ready to take his place?

I'm not so sure of either. I think it'd be a mistake to trade or cut him at this point.
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Compensation is the key
 
mussop said:
Compensation is the key
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You can point to compensation but, still do you feel like Johnson is a day one starter or the depth we currently have on roster can step up in his spot? Do you feel like anyone we could sign for in FA would command less or be worth the cap space we'd supposedly save? At least someone realistically available?

If your answer is no then cutting him just to save the cap space makes zero sense.
 
Goldensilence said:
You can point to compensation but, still do you feel like Johnson is a day one starter or the depth we currently have on roster can step up in his spot? Do you feel like anyone we could sign for in FA would command less or be worth the cap space we'd supposedly save? At least someone realistically available?

If your answer is no then cutting him just to save the cap space makes zero sense.
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I don't agree with that. It reaffirms to the players that we expect them to continue to produce at an elite level after being paid elite money.
 
Goldensilence said:
Nice redirect as well, but still doesn't answer the question of who steps in?
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I've said from the beginning of the off season we need one of Jjo or Kjax I'm sure I am in the minority of believing Bouye or Morris, or maybe even the rookie will do fine behind an improved pass rush. I do think adding Wilfork improves our pass rush.

Minority opinion, I know. But I'm just not too concerned abut possibly losing Jjo
 
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CB Johnathan Joseph is still worth the money for Texans
Tania Ganguli, ESPN

HOUSTON -- Johnathan Joseph won't pretend he was deaf to the talk.

For the past two offseasons, people wondered if Joseph was in danger of becoming a salary cap casualty. His cap charge was $11.25 million in 2014 and this season it will be $12.5 million. There was just one problem. The Texans needed Joseph.

"Obviously I read the newspaper sometimes or I look on the Internet," said Joseph, who turned 31 in April. "When you go out in public, you hear things and people ask you questions and that’s part of the game. Any time you sign a big contract, you get in those later years, the expectations are high to play at a high level. And I think I’ve done that, so I’ve never really had that thought in my head. Management never came to me and said anything to me. I kind of never really thought about it once, really."

Joseph has been the Texans' starting cornerback since signing a five-year contract that averaged $9.75 million per year. He was a major free agent signing for the Texans, helping a dramatic turnaround for a pass defense that went from one of the worst in the NFL in 2010 to one of the best in 2011.

"I look at this defense, first and foremost, I always have a job," Joseph said. "A lot of times I go and face the top receiver and that’s a task … it comes with the territory and I never back down from that challenge. It’s one of those things I look forward to each and every year. Any time I have a chance to do that, I think I have a chance to live up to my contract."

In his time with the Texans, Joseph saw fellow cornerback Kareem Jackson's transformation from a struggling young corner to one who earned a four-year deal worth $8.5 million per year this offseason. The two are heading into their fifth season playing together.

"We know exactly what each other’s thinking without even having to communicate," Joseph said. "Although we communicate every play, I can look over to him and just give him a look, he reads my mind and knows exactly what I’m thinking. Just overall understanding the football itself. We kind of see it through the same set of eyes."

Joseph remained a fixture on the outside for the Texans. Last season the Texans often used Jackson as a slot corner when the defense called for one and outside when it didn't. It illustrated the importance of having three starting-caliber corners in today's NFL, and the Texans kept an eye toward that when drafting cornerback Kevin Johnson in the first round this year.

Johnson's addition doesn't make Joseph expendable, but it might hint at a succession plan if Joseph doesn't return to the Texans next season. He entering the final year of his contract with the Texans if he doesn't sign an extension before the season starts

Joseph believes he has a lot more to give.

He feels healthier than he has in the past two seasons, both of which followed offseason surgeries. After the 2012 season, Joseph had two sports hernia surgeries. He suffered a toe injury during the 2013 season that required surgery. This year Joseph is not coming off any surgeries.

"I’ve always been hungrier and said that I wanted to make a third contract in this league and get to that point," Joseph said. "I want my team to win and to be the best player I can possibly be. I still think I have some better years ahead of me. I think this will probably be my best season just from being healthy, being able to go through a full OTA session, being in this defense for a second year and obviously having great players around me."​
 
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Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli

CB Johnathan Joseph's extension with the #Texans is a three-year deal (two new years) per source.

#Texans have extended cornerback Johnathan Joseph, as McBerman reported.​

PDS ‏@PatDStat

This extension mean zero in terms of Kevin Johnson and his development.

As @taniaganguli reports, there will be two new years added. Joseph’s contract extended to the 2017 season. #Texans

CB Johnathan Joseph's extension with the #Texans is a three-year deal (two new years) per source.

Joseph’s cap hit was $12.25 this season. Wonder if the team has something up their sleeve to possibly add something to the roster. #Texans

#Texans realize the value of the cornerback position. JJo, Kareem and Kevin Johnson are a solid group moving forward.

#Texans extend Johnathan Joseph.​
 
Cool - that was one of the extensions I wanted to see. May not have an elite member of the secondary but as a group they should be top tier for awhile now.
 
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Wow, thought this was a Texans farewell tour for JJo for sure following the draft. Looking forward to JJo, KJ, KJo, and Moore (RMo?) being a welcome handful for opposing qbs for a good couple years now.
 
infantrycak said:
Cool - that was one of the extensions I wanted to see. May not have an elite member of the secondary but as a group they should be top tier for awhile now.
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I agree. I'm just wondering why it took so long to extend? Could they have kept Lewis, or done more in free agency if this had happened sooner?
 
In today's game there's no such thing as too many good cornerbacks. If the rookie pans out we'll have 3 high end starters at the position for a few years which goes a very long way when preparing and calling the defense.
 
I'm surprised by this, but I'm not opposed to the move by the Texans because J.Joe is still our top CB and CB is still one of the most valuable and strategic positions on the team, on any NFL team. So good corners are very valuable and obviously the Texan feel that J.Joe even at 31 will remain very good if not quite elite for at least a couple more years. And with the selection of top Draft pick CB Kevin Johnson just being added to the roster in last months Draft this goes to show that there's really 3 not just 2 starting CBs on todays NFL teams.
 
frethack said:
Is all of the guaranteed money up front in the first year?

I think this is a great move. Joseph is a damned good corner still, and it looks like our secondary will remain a strength for a while to come. Strong D-line...strong secondary...good recipe for turnovers.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/05/08/shadow-cornerbacks-the-big-four/
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Some of the reported numbers are not lining up with each other. Once the contract is sent to NFLPA I'll have the details. I don't know if all the new money is in year 1, or if it is a straight cash guarantee meaning they GTD'd some of his 2016 salary. Probably Monday before I get all the details.
 
Very good move by the Texans, JJo and Kareem have a great chemistry together and I think ranking him ~25 in the league up thread is a little unfair. JoJo plays through injuries, I've seen him play injured loads over the time he's been on the Texans, I can't remember him having a clean season injury wise but most of the time he stays on the field. That pulls his stats down somewhat. I'm hoping he can have a few clean seasons and be an effective defender well into his 30's. I'm also confident that we have a great rookie in Johnson, who can play outside in nickel allowing Kareem to work the slot.
 
In his time with the Texans, Joseph saw fellow cornerback Kareem Jackson's transformation from a struggling young corner to one who earned a four-year deal worth $8.5 million per year this offseason. The two are heading into their fifth season playing together.

"We know exactly what each other’s thinking without even having to communicate," Joseph said. "Although we communicate every play, I can look over to him and just give him a look, he reads my mind and knows exactly what I’m thinking. Just overall understanding the football itself. We kind of see it through the same set of eyes."
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This part was really cool to read for me. Squad longevity is often overlooked when analyzing effectiveness, but a good squad that has years of playing together make the whole better than the individual parts. It is one of those intangible benefits often mentioned with offensive lines, but it is certainly a mentality that works for other units, as well.
 
Double Barrel said:
This part was really cool to read for me. Squad longevity is often overlooked when analyzing effectiveness, but a good squad that has years of playing together make the whole better than the individual parts. It is one of those intangible benefits often mentioned with offensive lines, but it is certainly a mentality that works for other units, as well.
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Just what I was thinking. We went from a fantastic overall line in 2011 and haven't been quite the same since.
 
Double Barrel said:
This part was really cool to read for me. Squad longevity is often overlooked when analyzing effectiveness, but a good squad that has years of playing together make the whole better than the individual parts...
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Agree, continuity is so important. And that unspoken level of communication helps.

Plus JJo is a willing, unselfish mentor for the young guys.
 
disaacks3 said:
Just what I was thinking. We went from a fantastic overall line in 2011 and haven't been quite the same since.
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Yes. Exactly!

Just about every time the Texans have got a position group built and working smoothly they've either decided that they needed to fix something that wasn't broken, or sacrifice "something" there to spend money elsewhere to fix something that was broken, or just plain gone out and done something stupid. We've all seen it happen over and over again. Aaron Glenn is mentoring Dunta Robinson perfectly..... Kick him to the curb and trade for Buchanon. The example you gave with the offensive line is a big one. Sometimes we haven't been able to help it but we often let guys go like Mario Williams when he went to get paid (nothing we could have done about it) and seen a chance for greatness go out the door while we start over. Glover Quinn is a beast now but we couldn't wait for him to develop here (even though he was already a fine safety). We had to go get that asshat hobo from Baltimore.

I hope this kind of thing is something that the team makes a point of focusing on. I don't expect us to keep guys forever who aren't producing. The Patriots turn over their roster at a pretty fair pace but they don't break up units every single time those units get working like a well oiled machine. Bad teams do that.
 
I like this extension. It ensures our secondary stays solid. JJo is not a bad player. He's our best CB, and it wouldn't make sense to release him. He's got another 2 or 3 good years left in him, and he'll be there to mentor Kevin Johnson.
 
I read only page 5 yesterday and missed the extension then seeing Thorn's message today I was like "wait..what?" Thorn is usually a little more clear than that post so went back to clarify and WOW! I wanted J Joseph but felt he was gone after this season. From Spotrac: 2015 cap hit $11.75 2016 & 2017 base $6.5 m with .5 m roster bonus. 2015 guaranteed + $4.5 of 2016= $16 million so front loaded & can let him go the third year if needed. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/johnathan-joseph/

Looks like another super team friendly contract. I just hope we can get a couple healthy years as he could be shut down type again. I wished Kendrick Lewis had remained.

Like Chapman, I think there maybe another big deal in the works.
 
So in six weeks we go from Mort saying J-Jo is on the trading block to Tania breaking news about his contract extension.
Sorry ESPN but you
:faildetector:
 
So the team gave Joseph $3 million security to potentially keep him an extra year if needed. Given the CB market and the current roster, I see no issues with this. Team can release after the 2015 season with small consequence.
 
badboy said:
I read only page 5 yesterday and missed the extension then seeing Thorn's message today I was like "wait..what?" Thorn is usually a little more clear than that post so went back to clarify and WOW! I wanted J Joseph but felt he was gone after this season. From Spotrac: 2015 cap hit $11.75 2016 & 2017 base $6.5 m with .5 m roster bonus. 2015 guaranteed + $4.5 of 2016= $16 million so front loaded & can let him go the third year if needed. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/johnathan-joseph/

Looks like another super team friendly contract. I just hope we can get a couple healthy years as he could be shut down type again. I wished Kendrick Lewis had remained.

Like Chapman, I think there maybe another big deal in the works.
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LOL. Sorry about that, I was just being my usual nonsensical self.
 
Troy Chapman said:
So the team gave Joseph $3 million security to potentially keep him an extra year if needed. Given the CB market and the current roster, I see no issues with this. Team can release after the 2015 season with small consequence.
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I'd love to see details of the Option Bonus to see what that's all about. Perhaps 2018 is also in play in this contract.
 
SOTT RUNDOWN: TEXANS LOCK UP JOHNATHAN JOSEPH

In an unexpected move, the Houston Texans locked up veteran cornerback Johnathan Joseph through the 2017 season. With Joseph in his last year of the deal he signed with the team in 2011 as a free agent, the extra two years of the extension gives Joseph $22 million over the next three seasons, with $11.5 million guaranteed.

Joseph was scheduled to make $8.5 million this year and with his new deal not much changes in terms of his cap hit which is now $11.75 million ($12.25 million prior to the extension). The Texans gave him an extra $3 million dollars to lock him up for the 2016 and 2017 seasons keeping his dead money to a relatively low numbers at $4.5 million in that span. With zero guaranteed money in his final year of the contract in 2017, it is an easy deal to get out from under if needed after this season.

There are some potential issues with the deal, especially the aspect of paying Joseph, who turned 31 in April, this type of money. He will be 33 when the deal finally expires, which will, more than likely, get him close to the end of his playing days. The futures of players like A.J. Bouye, Darryl Morris, and Jumal Rolle come into question, especially since all three are under the age of 25. All three are getting to the end of their contracts. Bouye and Morris will be restricted free agents after this season and Rolle after the 2017 season. What happens to players like them with whom the Texans have control over their futures with the team bringing back Joseph? Time will tell.

The Texans appear to have their top three cornerbacks returning for at least the next three years with Kareem Jackson, Kevin Johnson, and Joseph. That group looks good on paper and with the position at a premium, the Texans front office was proactive keeping Joseph in the fold.
Key stats for Joseph.

A two-time Pro Bowl selection with 240 total tackles, 11 interceptions, and two touchdowns since arriving with the Texans in 2011, Joseph currently also has 128 passes defended, which is top among active players since 2006.

Injury history is an interesting topic concerning him and there seems to be a consensus that he is missing games. Joseph has had his collection of health issues, a groin that required surgery prior to 2012 and a foot injury that kept him out of the final game of the 2013 season, which also required surgery. Plus normal in game nicks that would require trainers to take a look at during game time that all NFL players deal with.

Look at the numbers.
Code: 
YEAR  TARGETS  REC.  COMP.%  YDS    AVG   YAC  LONG  TDS  INT   PD
2014    117    68    58.1    814    12    201   80    4    2    6
2013     87    42    48.3    518    12.3  163   58    5    3    9
2012    109    61    56      743    12.2  175   45    2    3    5
2011     91    51    56      602    11.8  168   56    3    5    10

CH1MQK2WUAAUNHO.png

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CH1MQK2WUAAUNHO.png

The Texans are keeping one of their most productive defensive players on the roster and his arrival in 2011 helped the defense find an identity that was looking for a shutdown cornerback. Still able to play at an above average level, Joseph is also a well-respected leader in the locker room. Bill O’Brien has complete control of the 53-man roster and this was a move he wanted for the future of his team. Valuing smart and players with leadership qualities, Joseph is a key piece as one of the core players for the Texans.

A proactive move and keeping a cornerback depth chart filled with solid players, Joseph’s deal is about keeping strong players on and off the field.​
 
Marshall said:
I'd love to see details of the Option Bonus to see what that's all about. Perhaps 2018 is also in play in this contract.
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I wouldn't call it an option bonus. I don't have the details (yet) but it looks like a $1m roster bonus this year, guaranteed salary for 2015, and a portion of his 2016 salary is guaranteed. What level of guarantee the 2016 salary is, is another detail I am waiting on.
 
Troy Chapman said:
I wouldn't call it an option bonus. I don't have the details (yet) but it looks like a $1m roster bonus this year, guaranteed salary for 2015, and a portion of his 2016 salary is guaranteed. What level of guarantee the 2016 salary is, is another detail I am waiting on.
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You've probably already seen this but Spotrac has it as $500k in per game roster bonuses for each of the 3 years and then a $500k workout bonus this year. And a $1.25 mil option bonus this year. $11.5 guaranteed being $7 mil base this year and $4.5 mil of his 2016 base (no info on level of guarantee).
 
infantrycak said:
You've probably already seen this but Spotrac has it as $500k in per game roster bonuses for each of the 3 years and then a $500k workout bonus this year. And a $1.25 mil option bonus this year. $11.5 guaranteed being $7 mil base this year and $4.5 mil of his 2016 base (no info on level of guarantee).
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Yes sir and Spotrac is incorrect on some information (not the first time), and likely guessing on the other parts (workout bonus) to arrive at the reported $11.75m cap charge for 2015. The $1.25m option bonus is listed incorrectly, they show him to have a $5m option bonus in 2012. In Sept 2012 Joseph restructured $5m of his base salary converting to signing bonus.

In reality, they tore up his old contract, which left $3.75m in dead money (pro-rated signing bonus) for 2015. Started a new 3 year contract with the new parameters. I think they are guessing on the 2015 work out & roster bonus...Houston rarely incorporates workout bonuses. I am guessing they did a $1m roster bonus (one time payment), and don't start the per game roster bonus pay until 2016 (like they did with Mercilus).

But hey I could be wrong as well, as I am also guessing on some parts of the contract at this moment. Once the contract hits the NFLPA system I'll know for sure. I haven't published my thoughts on the extension, but I will do so once I get confirmation on details of the deal. If it drags out, I'll email a few people to get the details that way.
 
Thorn said:
LOL. Sorry about that, I was just being my usual nonsensical self.
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No..you had responded to a post I did not initially read so did not understand your comment. It actually got me to go back another page and learn about the new contract. I wished someone had started a thread about the extension. Anyway thanks.
 
I am still surprised at this move and extremely pleased with this off season. Will it result in better roster? It is hard for me not to be optimistic.
 
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