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The Johnny "Football" Manziel NFL thread

Say Watt said:
Besides, ever thought that maybe, just MAYBE, it's been the substance abuse issues bringing out the irritant known as Johnny Football, the entertainer?
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Its also entirely possible that whatever substance he was on allowed him to relax enough and be the player that he was at A&M. We won't know until he steps back on the field. In any event it appears the kid is finally facing his demons. All anybody really needs to be saying right now is good for him.
 
Mr teX said:
Its also entirely possible that whatever substance he was on allowed him to relax enough and be the player that he was at A&M. We won't know until he steps back on the field. In any event it appears the kid is finally facing his demons. All anybody really needs to be saying right now is good for him.
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Call me suspicious. I hope he has really faced his demons, but the chances that he has are slim. There's too much money at stake to believe this was anything more than than a show to buy a second chance.

Even if it is true, success rates are smaller than for microfracture surgery.
 
Marshall said:
Call me suspicious. I hope he has really faced his demons, but the chances that he has are slim. There's too much money at stake to believe this was anything more than than a show to buy a second chance.

Even if it is true, success rates are smaller than for microfracture surgery.
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I think so too, let's see how he prepares and the way he plays this time around. Does he get it? Can he get it done? We'll see.
 
chicagotexan2 said:
I think so too, let's see how he prepares and the way he plays this time around. Does he get it? Can he get it done? We'll see.
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See i don't think his success on the field is a good indicator as to whether or not he's truly trying to face his substance abuse problems. As DB coop says, he may just stink as an NFL qb sober or not sober.
 
Mr teX said:
See i don't think his success on the field is a good indicator as to whether or not he's truly trying to face his substance abuse problems. As DB coop says, he may just stink as an NFL qb sober or not sober.
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If I remember correctly, you were anti-Manziel all throughout the draft process... be that as it may, I see a host of tools in him that would allow him to be a successful QB - pinpoint accuracy, mobility, and a decent arm in particular. However, it's clear that A&M and spread offenses like A&M's (Oregon, Tech, etc.) don't prepare QBs for the huge mental aspect of the job. I still believe Manziel's two greatest enemies are himself and the playbook and system. If he's committed to solving the two issues, he'll have a career because the talent and tools are there.
 
htownfan32 said:
If I remember correctly, you were anti-Manziel all throughout the draft process... be that as it may, I see a host of tools in him that would allow him to be a successful QB - pinpoint accuracy, mobility, and a decent arm in particular. However, it's clear that A&M and spread offenses like A&M's (Oregon, Tech, etc.) don't prepare QBs for the huge mental aspect of the job. I still believe Manziel's two greatest enemies are himself and the playbook and system. If he's committed to solving the two issues, he'll have a career because the talent and tools are there.
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correct...i was and still am anti-manziel..largely b/c of the bolded in your post and b/c like VY, most of the time when plays had to be made, he was running..not sitting back in the pocket and dealing.

I only said what i said in my previous post b/c many are operating under the assumption that he sucked in his little time as the starter for the browns b/c his substance abuse problems were out of control at that point...I'm just saying its entirely possible that he may just suck b/c he sucks. He's not the 1st first round draft picked qb that couldn't play on the next level, and he sure as hell won't be the last.
 
Marshall said:
Call me suspicious. I hope he has really faced his demons, but the chances that he has are slim. There's too much money at stake to believe this was anything more than than a show to buy a second chance.

Even if it is true, success rates are smaller than for microfracture surgery.
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I went into rehab thinking just what you said - it wasn't about getting clean it was about a second chance. I went in thinking I'll tell them what they want to hear and go thru the motions until I can get out and it wont matter if I do drink when I leave.
I didn't think I had a problem because I wasn't a daily drinker like the typical alcoholic , the kind we all think of when we hear the word. I might have had a drink once a month or several days in a row then not for several months.

Reality sank in when one of the councilors asked me two questions:

1) Can you handle the consequences of your drinking - answer No. (hell I'm in rehab that's pretty obvious isn't it ?!)

2) Do you know what will happen after the first drink - answer No. (Nope , don't know if I'll have one drink or one bottle and if I have one bottle all bets are off).

Upon that realization , I started taking my stay there seriously. It became about me getting and staying clean .... all the reasons for going in the first place didn't matter.


For Johnny Football , the amount of time he spent there says a lot. He could have waked out at any time from day one. He likely successfully completed the "course" on day 28 which would have satisfied any court orders (not that there were court orders) yet he stayed another 32 days. You don't willingly subject yourself to 32 days of that hell if you don't have to / think YOU need the help.
 
Corrosion said:
For Johnny Football , the amount of time he spent there says a lot. He could have waked out at any time from day one. He likely successfully completed the "course" on day 28 which would have satisfied any court orders (not that there were court orders) yet he stayed another 32 days. You don't willingly subject yourself to 32 days of that hell if you don't have to / think YOU need the help.
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Yep and if they get the impression you're just going thru the motions they'll boot you out pretty quick
 
Corrosion said:
I went into rehab thinking just what you said - it wasn't about getting clean it was about a second chance. I went in thinking I'll tell them what they want to hear and go thru the motions until I can get out and it wont matter if I do drink when I leave.
I didn't think I had a problem because I wasn't a daily drinker like the typical alcoholic , the kind we all think of when we hear the word. I might have had a drink once a month or several days in a row then not for several months.

Reality sank in when one of the councilors asked me two questions:

1) Can you handle the consequences of your drinking - answer No. (hell I'm in rehab that's pretty obvious isn't it ?!)

2) Do you know what will happen after the first drink - answer No. (Nope , don't know if I'll have one drink or one bottle and if I have one bottle all bets are off).

Upon that realization , I started taking my stay there seriously. It became about me getting and staying clean .... all the reasons for going in the first place didn't matter.


For Johnny Football , the amount of time he spent there says a lot. He could have waked out at any time from day one. He likely successfully completed the "course" on day 28 which would have satisfied any court orders (not that there were court orders) yet he stayed another 32 days. You don't willingly subject yourself to 32 days of that hell if you don't have to / think YOU need the help.
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I sincerely hope that is what has happened. I guess I'm just tired of dealing with an acquaintance that says all the right things an hour before another binge.
 
chicagotexan2 said:
oooooh you're gonna make the Manziers or whatever they call themselves mad.
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It's called "the Bro"

273
 
Marshall said:
I guess I'm just tired of dealing with an acquaintance that says all the right things an hour before another binge.
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Stop.

Tell him/her he can't be in your life still drinking, and that you hope he can stop.

Sometimes we need to lose more before we become willing to change.
 
Playoffs said:
Stop.

Tell him/her he can't be in your life still drinking, and that you hope he can stop.

Sometimes we need to lose more before we become willing to change.
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Yeah , most of the time addicts have to hit rock bottom before they are willing to admit they have a problem much less take action to solve the problem and everyone's rock bottom is different.

More often than not when people attempt to help an addict before he starts helping himself , they are enabling , doing more harm than good ....

Let them hit bottom and help themselves cause nothing you can do can help them until they do.
 
Corrosion said:
Yeah , most of the time addicts have to hit rock bottom before they are willing to admit they have a problem much less take action to solve the problem and everyone's rock bottom is different.

More often than not when people attempt to help an addict before he starts helping himself , they are enabling , doing more harm than good ....

Let them hit bottom and help themselves cause nothing you can do can help them until they do.
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yep, every assist and every forgiveness is just another crutch
 
We all remember the excuses when Manziel was arrested for PI or didn't show up for QB camps because he was hung over.

How many fans of Manziel in college are willing to admit they enabled this behavior?
 
JB said:
But is a 19 year old kid really a grown ass man?
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The average age for those who fought in Vietnam was 19. Age is an arbitrary number. Maybe he's too immature to be considered a grown ass man, but that's more about his head than his birth date.
 
DBCooper said:
If you are old enough to fight and die for your country, you are grown.
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17 year old kids do that, I wouldn't call them grown. I'm not making any excuses for JM, but I wouldn't call him a grown ass man either, no matter what his age is.
 
JB said:
17 year old kids do that, I wouldn't call them grown. I'm not making any excuses for JM, but I wouldn't call him a grown ass man either, no matter what his age is.
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Like Double barrel said, the age is arbritrarily assigned by our society, some people never "grow up".

My point is that if society places a number on it, that number should be the same across the board.
 
DBCooper said:
Like Double barrel said, the age is arbritrarily assigned by our society, some people never "grow up".

My point is that if society places a number on it, that number should be the same across the board.
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agreed

He's responsible for his actions in any case
 
DBCooper said:
Like Double barrel said, the age is arbritrarily assigned by our society, some people never "grow up".

My point is that if society places a number on it, that number should be the same across the board.
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I don't know about that .... I know it complicates matters when things aren't "equal" but each person is so different , some mature much earlier while others never do , we aren't a one size fits all species. What applies to one often doesn't apply to another.
My 10 year old is more responsible than my 16 year old .... He thinks before he acts while the older one just goes thru life taking it as it comes. Its rather interesting how they are so totally different. I'm sure many other parents see the same things between siblings.

When you read the two definitions of arbitrary .... they are just as polar opposite as my kids:

1) based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.

2) (of power or a ruling body) unrestrained and autocratic in the use of authority.
 
Dan B. said:
He's a grown ass man now, but the excuse used to be that he was just a kid doing what kids do.

What would you expect to happen when no one held him accountable for his actions before?
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You hit the nail on the head with the bolded. We see this in a lot of talented athletes these days.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I just keep thinking about him leaving the manning camp early. You're on the cusp of being an nfl qb. You are at the mannings football camp.

Big red flag.
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A friend of mine was at that camp with his son. He saw it firsthand, and said Manziel showed up late with bloodshot eyes and reeked of booze. He was immediately asked to leave.
 
Statement from Browns QB Johnny Manziel
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news...-Manziel/4b19b920-8197-4e46-a166-a4ca62d872fe
"I would like to thank my family, friends, the Browns organization, my teammates, and Browns fans everywhere, for your patience, understanding, and support during my stay at Caron. The doctors and staff have been amazing and what I’ve learned in the last couple of months has been tremendous.

I owe private apologies to a lot of people that I disappointed but a very public one to the Browns organization and the fans that I let down. I take full responsibility for my actions and it’s my intention to work very hard to regain everyone’s trust and respect. I understand that will take time and will only happen through what I do and not what I say.

I also understand there’s a lot of curiosity about this but anyone who has a friend or family-member that’s been through things like this knows it’s an ongoing process. I’m going to continue to ask folks to try to respect my privacy as I determine to what degree I am comfortable talking about a subject which I consider very personal. Most of you have been considerate about that and I thank you for it.

I look forward to seeing my teammates next week and focusing on football and my desire to be the best possible player, teammate, and man that I can be.”
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He was paying attention at rehab.
 
Playoffs said:
Statement from Browns QB Johnny Manziel
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news...-Manziel/4b19b920-8197-4e46-a166-a4ca62d872fe

I may be wrong, but this sounds like a very carefully constructed statement composed by anyone other than Manziel.

He was paying attention at rehab.
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On the other hand, as I'm sure you know, for some, rehab simply serves to teach the addict all the correct things he is expected to say and do publicly to satisfy those around him...............that is, how to play the game better. In time, we will find out how he has chosen to use his recent period of "education." As I truly wish him all the best, I remain quite skeptical that Johnny Manziel can rid himself of his old friend "Johnny Football."
 
Most are either a skeptic waiting for an I told you so or "glad we have that behind us" for people landing back in the real world after treatment. The truth is ~80% relapse before they find lasting recovery. And I have no reason to think Manziel didn't do his own writing there. He's not unintelligent, and that's how everybody who wants it sounds coming out of a 12 step based rehab.
 
"Johnny's been great,'' DeFilippo said after the second rookie camp practice Saturday. "He's been fantastic. What he wants to talk about, before he stepped foot back in this building is his business. All I know is Johnny the football player, and he's been awesome. He's been working hard, very hard with myself and (quarterbacks coach Kevin O'Connell), and doing what we want him to do on the field."
...

"All I know is this: From the moment he stepped in this building from the last two weeks, he's been nothing but a consummate professional,'' DeFilippo said. "He's spent every hour that he's been allowed to spend in this building. We give them worksheets every Tuesday and every Friday, and they're done to the unbelievable detail that we need an NFL quarterback to do. From that standpoint, like I said I can't predict the future, but all I can do is tell you right now Johnny Manziel is putting himself in a position to be a quarterback in the NFL."
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http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/05/browns_oc_john_defilippo_johnn.html
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
On the other hand, Difilippo has virtually flipped over how well McCown has shown. He's already at advantage in that he can see over the barrels. :)
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McCown started the first three games for the Bucs. Take a look at his game log... I wouldn't think of it as McCown having the lead, or the advantage... more like whoever the other dude is will probably get a few extra weeks to warm up, or get ready.
 
thunderkyss said:
McCown started the first three games for the Bucs. Take a look at his game log... I wouldn't think of it as McCown having the lead, or the advantage... more like whoever the other dude is will probably get a few extra weeks to warm up, or get ready.
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Josh McCown taking ‘command’ as Browns install offense

Posted May 12, 2015

Andrew Gribble Senior Staff Writer @Andrew_Gribble

Veteran signal-caller earning his teammates’ respect

John DeFilippo didn’t want to see a new version of Josh McCown.

Since the veteran quarterback joined the Browns two months ago, the first-year offensive coordinator has gotten exactly what he wanted.

DeFilippo’s memories of working with McCown in Oakland in 2007 were warm enough to know he wanted him as the veteran presence in the Browns quarterback room. What DeFilippo’s seen from from the 35-year-old veteran through the first four weeks of offseason workouts has not only confirmed what he knew about McCown, but also impressed him by how quickly he’s been able to embrace a leadership role.

“He’s the exact same person, the exact same player,” DeFilippo said. “He seems like he hasn’t aged a bit in terms of his arm strength or his athleticism. Josh has been the total guy we thought he would be.

“He’s taken command of this offense and he’s taken command of the room. The guys respect him.....”
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linkhttp://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/article-5/Josh-McCown-taking-%E2%80%98command%E2%80%99-as-Browns-install-offense/639f96a1-d3b4-462c-8b5b-823252a5568e
 
Joe Haden says Johnny Manziel intends to start: 'He said he took things for granted; he's living his dream'
Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media
Aurora, Ohio ---Browns cornerback Joe Haden, who's close to Johnny Manziel and hangs out with him, said it's his buddy's intention to start the season regardless of who has the edge right now.

"Oh for sure,'' Haden said at the Browns Foundation golf outing at Barrington Golf Club. "He's a competitor. I think it's all about competition. We have Josh McCown. We have Johnny. We have (Connor) Shaw. All those guys. Just all of them feel like they can win the starting job.

"Competition brings out the best in you and I think that's good for Johnny and all the other quarterbacks who are going to compete against each other.''

Haden, who has Manziel over to his house and also plays basketball with him, said Manziel realizes now more than ever the opportunity at hand.

"He said he took a lot of things for granted,'' said Haden. "Just being able to go back there and realize that the is in the NFL. He's living his dream. He's a quarterback in the National Football League and what that entitles him. I think he understands that and I'm very happy for him.''

Four weeks into the offseason program, Haden has seen Manziel maintaining his feverish post-rehab work ethic. Manziel attended the golf outing and shook hands with reporters, but declined to be interviewed.

"I can see just him trying to be involved a little bit more in the offense,'' he said. "(I see) him studying a lot more, him being in the facility a lot more. Him being involved with his coaches, just staying after and getting that one-on-one and being able to understand what he has to do. Just a different mentality. I'm really excited about it.''

Browns coach Mike Pettine declared last week that Josh McCown is the favorite to start the season and that he doesn't want an open competition in camp, but Haden isn't the only one not counting out Manziel. Browns general manager Ray Farmer, who loves competition, is eager to see how it all plays out.
...

"My conversations with him have been pretty deliberate, like 'you've got to come and compete,''' said Farmer. "This is still the National Football League. There's no rest for the weary. We get it. We're supportive of him and his personal endeavors and he's got to come out and perform and demonstrate that he's worthy of being on the 53-man roster.''

He's been encouraged by everything he's seen so far from the post-rehab Manziel, including his move to a nice, quiet golf community in a west side suburb.

"The positives are the positives,'' he said. "At the end of the day I feel good that he is a young man that's doing the best he can with the circumstances he has. He wants to give himself the best opportunity. Whatever he thinks those adjustments need to be, those are things that he's going to do.''

Football-wise, he's still seeing some of the same flashes of excellence that he saw on film, the ones that prompted him to trade up from No. 26 to No. 22 to draft Manziel last year.

"I would contend that I see a guy that's doing everything he can to put himself in the best situation possible, so like I said, I think he's throwing the ball well,'' he said. "Again, I'm not an offensive coordinator. I can't tell you if he made the right read on the dig or he should've thrown it to the wheel route, but even in those situations, you watch what the guy's doing. Right now it's not competitive. There's not defenders running in there. It's all air. (But) when you see the guy throw the ball, he can throw it. It looks good right now, so we'll see.''
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http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/05/joe_haden_says_johnny_manziel.html
 
Of course Browns fans want Manziel to start. Their FO used a 1st on him and McCown is a 36 year old placeholder. Starting McCown is pretty much giving up on that pick and saying that after 20 years of trying they have still failed to find a QB.

Brian Hoyer is the most successful Cleveland QB of the last 2 decades and Cleveland didn't even consider re-signing him. Think about that for a moment.
 
WolverineFan said:
Of course Browns fans want Manziel to start. Their FO used a 1st on him and McCown is a 36 year old placeholder. Starting McCown is pretty much giving up on that pick and saying that after 20 years of trying they have still failed to find a QB.

Brian Hoyer is the most successful Cleveland QB of the last 2 decades and Cleveland didn't even consider re-signing him. Think about that for a moment.
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That was hard to believe (even for the Factory of Sadness) until I looked at the stats. Ouch.
 
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