Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

Mariota

Lambert said:
I might say that having 3 first picks out of 12 years is pretty much stinking up the NFL.
Click to expand...

ObsiWan said:
Every team has bad stretches. In the mid-70s the Cowboys picked 1-1 (1974), 1-2 (1975), and 1-2 (1976). Then they had another stretch where they picked at 1-1 in 1989 and 1991. I won't say who they got with those picks because it'll just piss you off (think triplets :)).
Click to expand...

Imo, just because you didn't have the #1 pick, doesn't mean that you didn't suck. So I like to look at a range. We could say top 5 pick, top 10, or top 15 to define the teams that suck. Here, I used top 5 going back to 2002. The Houston Texans have had a top 5 pick in 4 of those drafts. Three of them in their first five years, which should be expected since two of them were in their first two years as an NFL franchise.


Detroit 6
Washington 5
Houston 4
Kansas City 4
Oakland 4
St Louis 4
Arizona 3
Buffalo 3
Cincinnati 3
Cleveland 3
Jacksonville 3
Miami 3
Tampa 3
NYJets 2
San Diego 2
Atlanta 1
Carolina 1
Carolina 1
Chicago 1
Dallas 1
Denver 1
Green Bay 1
Indianapolis 1
Minnesota 1
New Orleans 1
NYGiants 1
NYJets 1
Philadelphia 1
San Fran 1
Seattle 1
Tennessee 1


The Texans are now going into their 14th draft. In the last six (going back to 2009) we've only had one top 5 pick. In fact, we didn't have a top 10 pick other than 2014. In four of the last five years, we haven't had a top 15 pick.

That's progress imo.
 
thunderkyss said:
Imo, just because you didn't have the #1 pick, doesn't mean that you didn't suck. So I like to look at a range. We could say top 5 pick, top 10, or top 15 to define the teams that suck. Here, I used top 5 going back to 2002. The Houston Texans have had a top 5 pick in 4 of those drafts. Three of them in their first five years, which should be expected since two of them were in their first two years as an NFL franchise.


Detroit 6
Washington 5
Houston 4
Kansas City 4
Oakland 4
St Louis 4
Arizona 3
Buffalo 3
Cincinnati 3
Cleveland 3
Jacksonville 3
Miami 3
Tampa 3
NYJets 2
San Diego 2
Atlanta 1
Carolina 1
Carolina 1
Chicago 1
Dallas 1
Denver 1
Green Bay 1
Indianapolis 1
Minnesota 1
New Orleans 1
NYGiants 1
NYJets 1
Philadelphia 1
San Fran 1
Seattle 1
Tennessee 1


The Texans are now going into their 14th draft. In the last six (going back to 2009) we've only had one top 5 pick. In fact, we didn't have a top 10 pick other than 2014. In four of the last five years, we haven't had a top 15 pick.

That's progress imo.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the good research!

However, if you stand a certain distance from a wall, and halve that distance with every forward step, it's progress, but you'll never reach the wall. :shades:
 
Lambert said:
Thanks for the good research!

However, if you stand a certain distance from a wall, and halve that distance with every forward step, it's progress, but you'll never reach the wall. :shades:
Click to expand...

Great post,

However I do believe either Mallett is BOB's guy or Hackenberg will be a Texan in 2016.
 
Lambert said:
Thanks for the good research!

However, if you stand a certain distance from a wall, and halve that distance with every forward step, it's progress, but you'll never reach the wall. :shades:
Click to expand...

Texans fans who follow the "three #1 overall picks in 12 years" is like the Cowboy fans who always bring up their 5 Super Bowls.


That's all I"m saying.
 
Lambert said:
However, if you stand a certain distance from a wall, and halve that distance with every forward step, it's progress, but you'll never reach the wall. :shades:
Click to expand...

That's only true if you have no arms to reach out and touch the wall.

I get it that you want us to spend draft picks to get a qb and we can do that and eventually find a Tom Brady or maybe a Russel Wilson type. If we do that tho, we won't have any team to put around him and his career will be somewhere from Fitzpatrick to Stafford or at best a Warren Moon type. We'll always be saying there's always next year. If only we had X
 
You have to pick the QB that you think will perform his best in big games. This is the hardest thing to figure out in all of sports. It's the difference between 2 great HOF QB's.

Montana vs Moon as an example.
 
JB said:
That's only true if you have no arms to reach out and touch the wall.

I get it that you want us to spend draft picks to get a qb and we can do that and eventually find a Tom Brady or maybe a Russel Wilson type. If we do that tho, we won't have any team to put around him and his career will be somewhere from Fitzpatrick to Stafford or at best a Warren Moon type. We'll always be saying there's always next year. If only we had X
Click to expand...

Measure your distance from the wall anyway you like----stretched out arms, distance from your nose, etc. Halve it with each step and you'll make progress but still never get to the wall.

I know picking a to-be great QB is very difficult. But we sure aren't going to ever have THAT guy if we keep drafting other positions over QB's. I guess I might say that it's a blind spot in this team's priorities ranking.
 
Lambert said:
Measure your distance from the wall anyway you like----stretched out arms, distance from your nose, etc. Halve it with each step and you'll make progress but still never get to the wall.

I know picking a to-be great QB is very difficult. But we sure aren't going to ever have THAT guy if we keep drafting other positions over QB's. I guess I might say that it's a blind spot in this team's priorities ranking.
Click to expand...

If I measure from the tip of my nose, my toes will surely touch the wall.

Our first first pick in history we took that QB over all other positions. It was a colossal fail. You don't draft a QB just because he's a QB. You have to believe that he will be great, or you take the player you do think will be great.
 
JB said:
If I measure from the tip of my nose, my toes will surely touch the wall.

Our first first pick in history we took that QB over all other positions. It was a colossal fail. You don't draft a QB just because he's a QB. You have to believe that he will be great, or you take the player you do think will be great.
Click to expand...


You keep taking like that and surely your nose will be the first to touch the wall. :deadhorse


I guess I'm a draft for need guy, as opposed to a BPA guy. The thing is that even if you are not sure a QB will be great, you draft him if you need a QB. You don't go out and draft a DE/OLB #1 when you need a QB.
 
Lambert said:
You keep taking like that and surely your nose will be the first to touch the wall. :deadhorse


I guess I'm a draft for need guy, as opposed to a BPA guy. The thing is that even if you are not sure a QB will be great, you draft him if you need a QB. You don't go out and draft a DE/OLB #1 when you need a QB.
Click to expand...

:D

You do if you also need a DE/OLB and they are the BPA.... :cool:


I understand your point, I just disagree that you draft a QB #1 just because you need a QB
 
JB said:
:D

You do if you also need a DE/OLB and they are the BPA.... :cool:


I understand your point, I just disagree that you draft a QB #1 just because you need a QB
Click to expand...


We didn't need a DE/OLB last year, we needed a QB. Now, we need an OLB cause we have no one to replace Reed, but we also need a QB---consider, how many games have any of the QB's on our roster played for us---combined? 2, that's how many. We need quality depth in the most important position on the field---QB. If we draft an OLB and he's a bust, we can deal with it---Simon will be there, etc. If our three QB's don't workout, and there is no real track record that says they will, WTF do we do?
 
Lambert said:
We didn't need a DE/OLB last year, we needed a QB. Now, we need an OLB cause we have no one to replace Reed, but we also need a QB---consider, how many games have any of the QB's on our roster played for us---combined? 2, that's how many. We need quality depth in the most important position on the field---QB. If we draft an OLB and he's a bust, we can deal with it---Simon will be there, etc. If our three QB's don't workout, and there is no real track record that says they will, WTF do we do?
Click to expand...

Agreed, but just throwing a pick at a QB ain't the answer. And throwing multiple picks trying to damn sure ain't the answer. That's the Cleveland Browns way... that who you want to emulate?
 
JB said:
Agreed, but just throwing a pick at a QB ain't the answer. And throwing multiple picks trying to damn sure ain't the answer. That's the Cleveland Browns way... that who you want to emulate?
Click to expand...

Kind of like the man or woman who never marries.

Remember the song "The Rose"? "it's the heart afraid of breaking that never learns to dance."
 
Lambert said:
Kind of like the man or woman who never marries.

Remember the song "The Rose"? "it's the heart afraid of breaking that never learns to dance."
Click to expand...

wow


I'm glad you have absolutely no say in the direction of the Texans.




:clown:

I'm done here
 
Lambert said:
You keep taking like that and surely your nose will be the first to touch the wall. :deadhorse


I guess I'm a draft for need guy, as opposed to a BPA guy. The thing is that even if you are not sure a QB will be great, you draft him if you need a QB. You don't go out and draft a DE/OLB #1 when you need a QB.
Click to expand...

Unless BOB thinks Mallett will be a franchise QB. Then drafting a DE/OLB makes sense. If he's wrong Hackenberg will be in next yrs draft and I'm sure the Texans will try to find a way to draft him.

Obviously you don't think Mallett can be a franchise QB. After seeing Mallett in college and him working in the Pats system for yrs I can understand BOB's thinking and hope he's right that Mallett is the guy.
 
steelbtexan said:
Unless BOB thinks Mallett will be a franchise QB. Then drafting a DE/OLB makes sense. If he's wrong Hackenberg will be in next yrs draft and I'm sure the Texans will try to find a way to draft him.

Obviously you don't think Mallett can be a franchise QB. After seeing Mallett in college and him working in the Pats system for yrs I can understand BOB's thinking and hope he's right that Mallett is the guy.
Click to expand...

I hope so too. I liked Mallett in the first game he took over for Fitz. I know he was injured in the second, but was his performance due to his injury----and if so should the medical staff have let him play?

He did well in college, despite rumors of drugs, etc., towards his draft, which hurt him.

I think if you don't have an obvious starter, Luck, one of the Mannings, Roethlisberger, etc., you try to find him in the draft---any draft.
 
Lambert said:
I hope so too. I liked Mallett in the first game he took over for Fitz. I know he was injured in the second, but was his performance due to his injury
Click to expand...

He tore the pectoral muscle proximal to his throwing arm badly enough to end his season. How would you think this wouldn't affect his performance?
 
Mollywhopper said:
He tore the pectoral muscle proximal to his throwing arm badly enough to end his season. How would you think this wouldn't affect his performance?
Click to expand...

If it was that serious, why was he allowed to play, why allowed to continue to play after the half? Is this an incompetent medical staff, a bad coaching decision, or an injury that shouldn't have affected his throwing? Why not put Fitz back in?----oh yeah, cause we didn't think we had an adequate back up QB. Is this something that you think we would be very anxious to address in the coming draft?
 
Lambert said:
If it was that serious, why was he allowed to play, why allowed to continue to play after the half? Is this an incompetent medical staff, a bad coaching decision, or an injury that shouldn't have affected his throwing? Why not put Fitz back in?----oh yeah, cause we didn't think we had an adequate back up QB. Is this something that you think we would be very anxious to address in the coming draft?
Click to expand...

No. I think Hoyer would be considered a completely suitable backup.
 
steelbtexan said:
You have to pick the QB that you think will perform his best in big games. This is the hardest thing to figure out in all of sports. It's the difference between 2 great HOF QB's.

Montana vs Moon as an example.
Click to expand...

Don't leave out the importance of who was coaching them.
Montana had Bill Walsh.
Moon had Jerry Glanville and Jack Pardee.
'nuff said.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Who's been in opposition of a top flight qb?
Click to expand...

He hasn't presented an argument yet on who this top flight qb is yet. Mariota maybe? He wants to trade up to #2 even if it takes two years worth of drafts to do it on the premise that it just might turn out to be a good qb.
Gotta take the chance to have a chance after all

:rolleyes:
 
Lambert said:
We didn't need a DE/OLB last year, we needed a QB. Now, we need an OLB cause we have no one to replace Reed, but we also need a QB---consider, how many games have any of the QB's on our roster played for us---combined? 2, that's how many. We need quality depth in the most important position on the field---QB. If we draft an OLB and he's a bust, we can deal with it---Simon will be there, etc. If our three QB's don't workout, and there is no real track record that says they will, WTF do we do?
Click to expand...

Our QB-guru head coach drafted a QB last year. What's the problem? Don't you have any faith in O'Brien??
 
JB said:
He hasn't presented an argument yet on who this top flight qb is yet. Mariota maybe? He wants to trade up to #2 even if it takes two years worth of drafts to do it on the premise that it just might turn out to be a good qb.
Gotta take the chance to have a chance after all

:rolleyes:
Click to expand...


Really? I have said either Mariota or Winston would do, but I think Tampa will take Winston. Maybe they take a OLB and let us have our pick, LOL.

You're right, "gotta take a chance to have a chance". Good saying!

And I thought you said you were through?
 
Lambert said:
No, not as a GM, or a draft picker. As a coach, he's great!
Click to expand...

Well, you're going to be disappointed because O'Brien basically has final say on the draft picks. Word is that was a condition of his taking the job here.
 
Lambert said:
No, not as a GM, or a draft picker. As a coach, he's great!
Click to expand...

Well, you're going to be disappointed because O'Brien basically has final say on the draft picks. Word is that was a condition of his taking the job here.

On second thought, you might like this arrangement. Every QB currently on our roster was selected by O'Brien so, if he's a "great" coach, we should be in good shape.
 
Lambert said:
No, not as a GM, or a draft picker. As a coach, he's great!
Click to expand...

Well, you're going to be disappointed because O'Brien basically has final say on the draft picks. Word is that was a condition of his taking the job here.

On second thought, you might like this arrangement. Every QB currently on our roster was selected by O'Brien so, if he's a "great" coach, we should be in good shape.
 
Lambert said:
No, not as a GM, or a draft picker. As a coach, he's great!
Click to expand...

Well, you're going to be disappointed because O'Brien basically has final say on the draft picks. Word is that was a condition of his taking the job here.

On second thought, you might like this arrangement. Every QB currently on our roster was selected by O'Brien so, if he's a "great" coach, we should be in good shape.
 
Lambert said:
I guess I'm a draft for need guy, as opposed to a BPA guy. The thing is that even if you are not sure a QB will be great, you draft him if you need a QB. You don't go out and draft a DE/OLB #1 when you need a QB.
Click to expand...

IMO, that's the wrong way to go about it. You'll primarily be spending your time teaching a QB how to play instead of teaching your team how to win. Everything changes when you change QBs... everything changes as that QB gets better.

So the Jags started with Blaine Gabbert two years ago... the OL, the WRs, the RBs, TEs all had to learn to do things a certain way because Gabbert was back there. He didn't work out, they moved on to Henne. Now the offense has to change everything they're doing as Henne gets up to speed, learning how to read defense, take his drops, drift left or right, climb the pocket, hitting their marks... everything. They start last year with Henne, all through training camp & the preseason they're learning to do things a certain way. Three games into the season, everything changes as they make their move to Bortles.

Still, everything changes week to week as Bortles gets better, or gets worse.

There was a time when that team would challenge for the division with a guy like David Garrard. Their defense was among the best in the league, their running game was among the best in the league. Then all of a sudden they started focusing on QB & they're at the bottom of the division.
 
ObsiWan said:
Well, you're going to be disappointed because O'Brien basically has final say on the draft picks. Word is that was a condition of his taking the job here.
Click to expand...

Whoa... slow down. OB has final say on the 53 man roster. That's not the same as having final say on draft picks. That would be Rick Smith... or McNair really.
 
thunderkyss said:
Whoa... slow down. OB has final say on the 53 man roster. That's not the same as having final say on draft picks. That would be Rick Smith... or McNair really.
Click to expand...

meh, it's all semantics. No one is going to select a player OB doesn't want
 
JB said:
meh, it's all semantics. No one is going to select a player OB doesn't want
Click to expand...

I don't know.

Maybe no one is going to kick a guy off the 53 that Rick Smith picked.

I honestly think that was the issue with Ben Jones & Brandon Harris. All conjecture on my part, I don't have proof.

Well, we have Ed Reed.

Bottom line, the coach & the GM need to work together.
 
ObsiWan said:
Well, you're going to be disappointed because O'Brien basically has final say on the draft picks. Word is that was a condition of his taking the job here.

On second thought, you might like this arrangement. Every QB currently on our roster was selected by O'Brien so, if he's a "great" coach, we should be in good shape.
Click to expand...


There are limits to what a great coach can do---I'll bet there are a few "great coaches" out there buying Viagra......:)
 
NFL insiders are starting to say the Marcus Mariota-to-Philly rumors are real
While fans have long speculated that Eagles coach Chip Kelly would attempt to trade up for the quarterback he recruited and coached at Oregon, some of the most high-profile NFL insiders are now hopping on board.

ESPN's Adam Schefter went on 97.5 The Fanatic in Philadelphia on Monday and said Kelly trading up for Mariota is now a "possibility" (via Eliot Schorr-Parks of NJ.com):

"Count me in the camp that does consider that an option and a possibility. And I was not in that camp a month ago, but I've come over to that side."

Another NFL writer, CBS' Jason La Canfora, is even more bullish on the Eagles making a run at Mariota.

Canfora wrote about Kelly's thinking, saying, "He coached Mariota. He loves Mariota. He's willing to do whatever he thinks is best for his organization, conventional wisdom and consequences be damned. He simply doesn't care. He's capable of pretty much anything and his peers don't believe for a minute he'll watch someone else draft Mariota without a fight. No one will explore more options than Kelly, and if he pulls something huge off, few would be surprised. It would be more surprising if he just uses his picks as presently subscribed."

John Conzano, a columnist for the Oregonian who covered Kelly in college, says Kelly is going to go all-in:
Covered Chip Kelly long enough to know he gets what he wants. And we all know what he wants in the draft. There’s a visor at the poker table...

@capnkeystone He’ll get it done. Only question is what it will ultimately cost him. He doesn’t leave draft without Mariota.
--22 Apr 2015
Click to expand...

"What it will ultimately cost him," is the big sticking point here.
...
Kelly has said that he doesn't believe in trading a boatload of picks to move up in the draft — something the Washington Redskins did in the Robert Griffin III trade in 2012. While it's wise to never believe anything Kelly says publicly, there's reason to think he's being honest here. All the numbers say trading multiple high draft picks for a top-five selection is irrational. The NFL's smartest teams all trade down in the draft, not up.

Kelly is considered one of the most forward-thinking coaches in the league. It's simply hard to see him going against the analytics and going all-in on Mariota in a straight swap of draft picks. Just look at what Washington had to give up to get RGIII:
Click to expand...
http://www.businessinsider.com/marcus-mariota-eagles-nfl-draft-rumors-2015-4#ixzz3Y571a9aO
 
ObsiWan said:
Don't leave out the importance of who was coaching them.
Montana had Bill Walsh.
Moon had Jerry Glanville and Jack Pardee.
'nuff said.
Click to expand...
Damn good point. Of course, the vastly overrated Moon was basically uncoachable. His slow recognition made him helpless under a blitz. He needed a good running game to take the pressure off him, so he was a misfit in Pardee's run-n-shoot.
 
I haven't really been following this forum super close this year, so if this stuff has been said or I'm posting in the wrong place please forgive me.

I am trying to gauge the feel for Mariotta and if he's going to Titans or not so I went into their message board.

They have a poll up about what they think the Titans WILL/should do:

http://www.gotitans.com/threads/pick-2-your-final-prediction.93640/

Basically 16 for Mariotta / 24 for Trade out / 3 for other.

What was super funny to me is those NOT wanting Mariotta, but wanting a trade all felt that if they did pull off a trade, their GM would get worked over, lol. Titans fans are pretty funny.
 
I wonder if any of the other student athletes will be doing this for the players they're loosing to the NFL?
 
thunderkyss said:
I wonder if any of the other student athletes will be doing this for the players they're loosing to the NFL?
Click to expand...

I heard at Flordia State they were tossing morning after Plan B pills and DNA kits at Winston as he left school.

I kid, I kid.
 
John Clayton @ClaytonESPN
Two first round picks from the Browns to the Titans is clearly not enough to spark a trade for Mariota. Browns would need another No. 1
Click to expand...

Browns offered 2, Titans want 3 first round picks.
 
Playoffs said:
John Clayton @ClaytonESPN


Browns offered 2, Titans want 3 first round picks.
Click to expand...
If I ran the Browns, I'd give it to them. Before they changed their minds. Hell, I'd throw in Johnny Football. How could they turn that down?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top