Inelligible receiver... Belicheat??

[Speedy]

But I do think that there is a definite intent to deceive.

Ya think? Kinda like play-action, bootlegs, a reverse, a flea flicker, a halfback pass, and so on?

The name of the game is deception, and the defense does it too with all their oddball formations, movement before the ball is snapped, showing blitz, faking blitz, d-linemen dropping into coverage, it's all about deception.

I'm not trying to be a Belichick apologist, but if Vereen reports non-eligible on one play and is suppose to report again if he stays in, that's on the refs, not Belichick.

 

[Texecutioner]

What I find funny is the typical "selectiveness" on this subject as usual. The Patriots are just finding ways to play well just like every other team. The Patriots have just done a much better job at it.

I don't hear anyone wanting to take away the Bucs SB or fine them for what Brad Johnson did in the SB where he actually paid a commission to have it done. He talked about it over a year ago, and no one even batted an eye. No one cared. All of a sudden there is a story about the Patriots doing it in a game where their running game alone destroyed the other team, and this a story the media creates to stir up controversy and it sure as hell causes the emotion knowing damn well it didn't matter hardly at all considering the fact that the Colts couldn't even score more than 7 points.

And where is the outrage about Rogers and other QB's who clearly are out there doing the same stuff? Rogers has his footballs with extra air, and this is not a problem though? If the media wanted to start a witch hunt and go after Rogers for using air expanded footballs so he could get the velocity that he is known for on his passes due to the higher weight in the ball, then they could get all of you guys all worked up about Rogers with no problem what so ever.

We're headed into the final game of the year. The SB, and everyone wants to talk about some stupid footballs being deflated in a game where one team was blown out for like 4th time in three years by the other team. If people want to take issue with this, it should be an issue with the NFL for allowing situations where teams can change the air pressure in a football. This is a league thing. Not a Patriot thing. The league is the entity that should be criticized for negligence more than anything. Teams around the NFL are going to get their advantages when they can. Every team in the league will.

 

[Lucky]

I don't hear anyone wanting to take away the Bucs SB or fine them for what Brad Johnson did in the SB where he actually paid a commission to have it done. He talked about it over a year ago, and no one even batted an eye. No one cared.

You'll find in life that more people are concerned about what's happening in the present than the past. Did you know of the Brad Johnson story prior to inflategate?

 

[infantrycak]

What I find funny is the typical "selectiveness" on this subject as usual.

Well that's true like:

And where is the outrage about Rogers and other QB's who clearly are out there doing the same stuff? Rogers has his footballs with extra air, and this is not a problem though? If the media wanted to start a witch hunt and go after Rogers for using air expanded footballs so he could get the velocity that he is known for on his passes due to the higher weight in the ball, then they could get all of you guys all worked up about Rogers with no problem what so ever.

Who are all these QBs doing this and when has Rogers been caught with an over-inflated ball?

Yes some of the criticism is jealousy or just unwarranted like ***** ing about the tuck rule, but you're making up facts to try to dismiss Patriot misconduct.

And the inflation has nothing to do with weight. It's about feel. A couple lbs of psi difference is less than a gram and NFL footballs vary by up to 28g.

 

[steelbtexan]

Maybe Dungy is reading the rule book more than Belichick.



Link

Casts a new light on "it was perfectly legal."

So Belichick is putting on the officials to know the rule book?

What a novel idea. It's legal if the officials don't call a penalty. Kind of like holding or interference. Fact is people like Dungy etc... don't like Belichick because he constantly beat Dungy's teams.

People don't like singe minded people like Belichick who will do whatever it takes to win. If that means bending/breaking the rules so be it. I admire singleminded people.

BTW, Carroll has some of the same qualities. He doesn't care about a players background, he just cares about if that player can help him win games. Other teams could learn a few lessons from Belichick/Carroll.

 

[bah007]

Ya think? Kinda like play-action, bootlegs, a reverse, a flea flicker, a halfback pass, and so on?

The name of the game is deception, and the defense does it too with all their oddball formations, movement before the ball is snapped, showing blitz, faking blitz, d-linemen dropping into coverage, it's all about deception.

I'm not trying to be a Belichick apologist, but if Vereen reports non-eligible on one play and is suppose to report again if he stays in, that's on the refs, not Belichick.

It is on the refs and I don't blame Belichick one bit. He's taking advantage of a portion of the rulebook that has a lot of grey areas. You might want to re-read my other posts in this thread if you think that's where I'm coming from.

And by the way, there is a difference between offensive and defensive deception. The offense controls the tempo of every play. By the nature of the game, offense is an action and defense is a reaction to that action.

So any deception by the defense can be accounted for by the offense regardless of when it occurs, because they control the snap of the ball. Offensive deception does not work the same way, and that is where the outrage is coming from.

 

[infantrycak]

It's legal if the officials don't call a penalty.

Lol yeah and there's no burglary if the cops never catch the burglar.

Fact is people like Dungy etc... don't like Belichick because he constantly beat Dungy's teams.

Spare me your junior psychology. I give a **** who the source was but he was smart enough to figure out flags should have been thrown.

 

[steelbtexan]

Lol yeah and there's no burglary if the cops never catch the burglar.



Spare me your junior psychology. I give a **** who the source was but he was smart enough to figure out flags should have been thrown.

No junior psycholgy,

Just a fact, people don't like people who are great at their jobs. Jealousy is human mature. Dungy is that guy.

Spare me the condescending BS routine that you're so adapt at using.

 

[Texecutioner]

You'll find in life that more people are concerned about what's happening in the present than the past. Did you know of the Brad Johnson story prior to inflategate?

No, I never heard it once until now. The media, nor the people who did hear about it even thought it was a problem. ANd this is a guy who admitted to paying and tipping ball boys to do this in a SB. If the media wanted to make everyone care about it they could though. American's minds are easily manipulated and controlled as long as they hear a story enough times. It shouldn't be, but it is that way. The fact that people have heard about this story a lot recently now though along with the Rogers information and many others, the outrage should be at the NFL for demonstrating the typical negligence that we've seen in recent years. This isn't some thing where the Patriots just did the unthinkable. This is something that tons of QB's around the league have been doing for years. Indy was just the first team to raise a stink about it, and all of a sudden the media found their new scandal to waste time with instead of the excitement of the actual SB match ups.

 

[Playoffs]

What I find funny is the typical "selectiveness" on this subject...

Working up/breaking in footballs is not against the rules. PSI outside of league specified range is against the rules. Simple.

We're headed into the final game of the year. The SB, and everyone wants to talk about some stupid footballs being deflated...

And the blame for that falls on those people who deflated the footballs, not the people talking about it.

If there was an easy, quick explanation for it I guarantee the NFL would push it out there and move the focus to the big game. No way they want to lead all nightly news broadcasts with this kind of negativity.

It's supposed to be all...

"Thrown out of a crippled airplane by his blind mother who he never got to meet, parachuted onto a deserted island where he spent his first 13 years alone with the exception of a washed ashore football he named Wilson that became his best friend...

Rescued by pirate fishermen who sold him into slavery until a little known Alabama scout convinced Nick Saban to ransom him out and put him on a football field... graduating with a 4.0 GPA in spite of not being able to read...

Now Super Bowl hero throwing 9 TDs and rushing for 4 more, with half of those coming after a gruesome shoulder dislocation that forced him to play left-handed... tears in his eyes, hero to all, they're already adding a separate wing to the Pro Football Hall of Fame!"

 

[infantrycak]

Johnson had ALL balls for both teams prepped the same with the agreement of Gannon. There was no competitive advantage. It ain't the same.

 

[Texecutioner]

Well that's true like:



Who are all these QBs doing this and when has Rogers been caught with an over-inflated ball?

Yes some of the criticism is jealousy or just unwarranted like ***** ing about the tuck rule, but you're making up facts to try to dismiss Patriot misconduct.

And the inflation has nothing to do with weight. It's about feel. A couple lbs of psi difference is less than a gram and NFL footballs vary by up to 28g.

Why does there have to be someone caught? From all of the reports and information that has been out on this subject, there hasn't been any real policing and monitoring on this from what it seems like to me. You have a SB winning QB bragging about doing this and tipping a guy and stating that all QB's like their footballs a certain way and have preferences. That is not surprising at all to me, even though I never thought about it before. It makes perfect sense. Everyone's hands are different and everyone has a different style of gripping a football and a different throwing motion to some degree. I could see why QB's would like different amounts and stuff like that. There are numerous reports about Rogers wanting his footballs with more air than most QB's which is essentially the same thing happening. I don't see Rogers running out and denying any of that.

 

[steelbtexan]

The NFL is turning into the WWE.

If it weren't for the draft I would lose interest and God'ell has done everything he can to ruin that event.

 

[Wolf]

Is rogers "overinflated" balla within league specs or is the league checking the balls and then a greenbay ballboy going back and adjusting the balsls after they have been marked as "cleared to play"?

 

[infantrycak]

Tex - you're just making **** up left and right. Rogers said he likes them hard. That's it. Zero indication of harder than the NFL allows. And in your making up facts you don't even bother to research basics like the balls are checked by the refs before and after every game. The only evidence on this issue is this is a Patriots' ploy/misconduct.

 

[Texecutioner]

Working up/breaking in footballs is not against the rules. PSI outside of league specified range is against the rules. Simple.


And the blame for that falls on those people who deflated the footballs, not the people talking about it.

If there was an easy, quick explanation for it I guarantee the NFL would push it out there and move the focus to the big game. No way they want to lead all nightly news broadcasts with this kind of negativity.

It's supposed to be all...

"Tears in his eyes, thrown out of a crippled airplane by his blind mother who he never got to meet, parachuted onto a deserted island where he spent his first 13 years alone with the exception of a washed ashore football he named Wilson that became his best friend... rescued by pirate fishermen who sold him into slavery until a little known Alabama scout convinced Nick Saban to ransom him out and put him on a football field... graduating with a 4.0 GPA in spite of not being able to read... now Super Bowl hero throwing 9 TDs and rushing for 4 more, with half of those coming after a gruesome shoulder dislocation that forced him to play left-handed... tears in his eyes, hero to all, they're already adding a separate wing to the Pro Football Hall of Fame!"

Sorry, but the blame goes to the people that are silly enough to think this is a story worth attaching a lot of attention to. The media can print and talk about whatever it is they want, and you guys will listen. It doesn't matter what it is. Hell, it could be about Tom Brady knitting. People would talk about it. It could be about Russell Wilson's addiction to porn. People would talk about it if the media went on and on enough about that instead of the SB. It is when you guys as fans and consumers allow the media to by constantly tuning into that instead of football coverage and real issues concerning the match up and the game itself is when it becomes your fault. You are feeding into that frenzy. Maybe this is the kind of garbage you'd like to hear about more in sports with scandals and soap opera stuff though. Just don't complain when it is happening to the Texans one day. If Watt is ever accused of something really silly or has some sort of awkward criticism that shadows his great play or his great career, then go ahead and enjoy it and embrace the culture of media that you're supporting.

At the end of the day this story isn't being reported clearly at all. It is an attack on one franchise instead of highlighting the big picture which is that the NFL has had a culture of this amongst QB's for a really long time now. No one really knew or thought about it. I don't see it as a big deal at all with that being the case, nor do I see it as important in a game where one team scored one TD in the first half and that was it. They were destroyed everywhere in that game. Hell, this very thread was created to whine about the Patriots over calls on the field that teams couldn't figure out. Just beat them, and stop crying already. Next year, people ail probably be up in arms because they Patriots have paint on their helmets that reflects the sun or something like that where people will look for something or Bellicheck will have a defensive scheme that people forgot they could utilize and cry about that. Who knows.

 

[Texecutioner]

Tex - you're just making **** up left and right. Rogers said he likes them hard. That's it. Zero indication of harder than the NFL allows. And in your making up facts you don't even bother to research. The balls are checked by the refs before and after every game. The only evidence on this issue is this is a Patriots' ploy/misconduct.

You always act totally obtuse when you want to argue a subject no matter how much information is staring at you right in the face. Yeah, Brad Johnson shouldn't be talked about because you don't want there to have other examples. Rogers shouldn't be talked about because you don't want that as an example. None of this applies, because you don't want it to. Well sorry there partner, but you can play Captain Obtuse as usual all you want, but these are examples whether you want them to be or not. Your little double standards of blame that you're so famous for being selective with couldn't be more ridiculous. One QB likes his football slightly deflated in some cases. Another one likes them more inflated for his own reasons. You're just blaming the Patriots, because they're a good team clearly. Get over it. For years in here, I've seen you do the same thing when criticizing other teams for being dirty, but excusing similar stuff from the Texans or with our coaches. If this was the Texans in the playoffs your opinion would be all about how stupid this is.

 

[Texecutioner]

The NFL is turning into the WWE.

If it weren't for the draft I would lose interest and God'ell has done everything he can to ruin that event.

Yeah, this is a good example. THe NFL combined with ESPN has turned this whole SB experience this year into straight WWE garbage. If this is such a problem, then wait until the SB is finished, fine them, and penalize them on however they see fit and move on. This sure as hell isn't what creates league popularity though.

 

[infantrycak]

Wow, go look up obtuse.

And stop wearing your fingers out. Here:

Blah, blah, rant - I'm not listening, because I don't care about the facts - blah, blah, rant

There, now you can cut and paste your posts and save time.*

* Not all your posts. Often you have good posts and then you go full on irrational on certain subjects. The above is for the latter such as in this thread.

 

[steelbtexan]

Yeah, this is a good example. THe NFL combined with ESPN has turned this whole SB experience this year into straight WWE garbage. If this is such a problem, then wait until the SB is finished, fine them, and penalize them on however they see fit and move on. This sure as hell isn't what creates league popularity though.

If I was God'ell I wouldn't have released the results until after the Super Bowl. I would tell the media that the focus is going to remain on the SB.

Just another example of God'ell being a bad commish. I think he likes the attention the NFL is getting. Or he's not very smart.

 

[Marshall]

belichick is the master. it's becoming a question of whether he's a master of the game, or a master of what he can get away with. and how long he's gotten away with it.

I don't think it's a question any longer. He is a Master of getting away with skirting and even breaking the rules to gain an advantage and also with doing it without significant penalty from the league.

Do not expect the league to actually impose a significant penalty. They will find a way out of sanctions on the fair haired boys. You don't actually think they would do to them what they would do to teams like the Saints or any other normal team. They have their favorites.

ps I agreed with the sanctions on the Saints. I just think they should also be applied to ALL teams when caught doing the wrong thing.

 

[Marshall]

Sorry, but the blame goes to the people that are silly enough to think this is a story worth attaching a lot of attention to. The media can print and talk about whatever it is they want, and you guys will listen. It doesn't matter what it is. Hell, it could be about Tom Brady knitting. People would talk about it. It could be about Russell Wilson's addiction to porn. People would talk about it if the media went on and on enough about that instead of the SB. It is when you guys as fans and consumers allow the media to by constantly tuning into that instead of football coverage and real issues concerning the match up and the game itself is when it becomes your fault. You are feeding into that frenzy. Maybe this is the kind of garbage you'd like to hear about more in sports with scandals and soap opera stuff though. Just don't complain when it is happening to the Texans one day. If Watt is ever accused of something really silly or has some sort of awkward criticism that shadows his great play or his great career, then go ahead and enjoy it and embrace the culture of media that you're supporting.

At the end of the day this story isn't being reported clearly at all. It is an attack on one franchise instead of highlighting the big picture which is that the NFL has had a culture of this amongst QB's for a really long time now. No one really knew or thought about it. I don't see it as a big deal at all with that being the case, nor do I see it as important in a game where one team scored one TD in the first half and that was it. They were destroyed everywhere in that game. Hell, this very thread was created to whine about the Patriots over calls on the field that teams couldn't figure out. Just beat them, and stop crying already. Next year, people ail probably be up in arms because they Patriots have paint on their helmets that reflects the sun or something like that where people will look for something or Bellicheck will have a defensive scheme that people forgot they could utilize and cry about that. Who knows.

Goodell? I didn't know you frequented the TexansTalk site.

 

[Playoffs]

NFL says Solder touchdown play was illegal

PHOENIX -- Remember the touchdown play two weeks ago that caused a mess of 300-pound men to celebrate like small children on the last day of school? The one that tackle Nate Solder said caused him to black out as he neared the goal line?

It never should have happened.

Speaking to reporters on Thursday, the NFL's vice president of officiating Dean Blandino explained why the Patriots had an illegal formation on the play when Solder recorded his first NFL catch and first NFL touchdown in the same play against the Colts in the AFC title game.

"There was an issue on that play where on the previous play, [Cameron] Fleming had reported as an eligible player," Blandino said. "And on the Solder touchdown he went back to playing an ineligible position. That’s illegal. That’s an illegal substitution. So that’s something we discussed with the crew. Bill [Belichick] was made aware of it. So we’re going to be looking for that, make sure we follow the proper mechanics so that doesn’t happen again."

For Fleming to go from an eligible player to an ineligible player, by rule, he would have had to sit out one play (unless there was a timeout, a penalty, or it was the end of a quarter) before returning to the field.

The Patriots have benefited greatly from use of ineligible receivers and eligible tackles through these playoffs, but a formation like the one the Patriots used on Solder's touchdown is exactly the kind of thing that Pete Carroll and the Seahawks will be looking out for on Sunday.

 

[Blake]

What a mess... The NFL cant even referee their own rules. Not saying its easy, but at this point you have so many rules, with so many conditions that change every few years it has become almost impossible to enforce them...

 

[disaacks3]

So, Dungy catches it on replay and it should have been a penalty - I'm shocked.

The NFL catches in on replay and says a TD play should never have happened - I'm shocked.

The offender is Bill Belichick? - I'm shocked.

Folks try to compare it to shifting formations, play-action, etc. and don't see the differences. - I'm shocked.

Hurry-up Offense is fine. Texans Defense always had issues in the past with it, but that's on them, not the Offense throwing it at them.

This is essentially a late substitution, but without the referees holding up the play to let the Defense adjust as they would a substitution.

I fully expect the NFL to adjust - either by making a rule change, or simply having the referee hold up the play until the Defense can be properly notified.

It's akin to looking over at your buddy and saying "wanna race?" and then taking two steps before saying "Go!".