Blake
MMQB
You can have Jones. Ill take Savage. In 10 years lets see who had the better career.
Dont be fooled by the hype that this guy can run an NFL offense. I bet he doesnt even get a higher wonderlic score than Cam Newton.
Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
Cardale Jones, QB, OSU
- Thread starter nero THE zero
- Start date
You can have Jones. Ill take Savage. In 10 years lets see who had the better career.
Dont be fooled by the hype that this guy can run an NFL offense. I bet he doesnt even get a higher wonderlic score than Cam Newton.
Pollardized
Division Champ
Yep.... Because scores like Ryan Fitzpatrick's 48 or Blaine Gabbert's 42 offer some insight on how those guys were destined to be great NFL quarterbacks!
The main quality Savage has that makes him (seem to) have such high potential is that he was drafted by the Texans. If he was on another team, I doubt posters would have such a high opinion of him, if they remembered he existed at all. The mere fact that the Texans drafted him seems to make him better than any other long shot, and in the eyes of some better that most blue chip prospects. Savage doesn't have "hype" he gets blind trust.
PapaL
Loose Screw
This is news to you? Have you not seen all the Keenum threads?
You don't think fans of QB needy teams want to believe Player X is the diamond in the rough? We're all in the same boat.
No, no surprise. Sometimes opinions get so clouded by laundry that I slip up and mention it.
============
I also don't understand why you mentioned "quarterback needy teams". From what I've read here, the Texans already have two or three quarterbacks better than anything available last draft, next draft, or through free agency.
============
Before anyone wastes too much time building a strawman, note that I didn't say the Texans should draft Jones, nor that he is a first round talent. I simply said I'd prefer him over Savage.
TexansFTW
Veteran
You are gonna get trolled so hard son. lol.
How do we always get back on Savage? That rascal finds his scrub self in every thread lol. I kid I kid, maybe I'm wrong and he'll be great. I've been wrong before.
As for Jones, if he gets a 3rd round or better grade why not come out? I doubt he does, I think he's closer to 4th because of size, arm strength and LACK OF film exploiting him, but even as a 4th he should probably still come out.
I doubt he develops much as a QB even with another season. Urban Meyer LATELY* doesn't really seem to care to develop NFL QBs, he seems to just develop College Football Championship QBs.
*I know Alex Smith
How do we always get back on Savage? That rascal finds his scrub self in every thread lol. I kid I kid, maybe I'm wrong and he'll be great. I've been wrong before.
As for Jones, if he gets a 3rd round or better grade why not come out? I doubt he does, I think he's closer to 4th because of size, arm strength and LACK OF film exploiting him, but even as a 4th he should probably still come out.
I doubt he develops much as a QB even with another season. Urban Meyer LATELY* doesn't really seem to care to develop NFL QBs, he seems to just develop College Football Championship QBs.
*I know Alex Smith
All college coaches care about developing College Football Championship QBs. Urban Meyer is no different.
That's their job.
Wouldn't we all feel better about our QB position if we had?
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
I'd probably be more upset.
I think a lot of us would.
I'm sure we'd rationalize it somehow.
It's the Texan way. :wadepalm:
I would not have liked it if we took Savage in the second, but I would learn to live with it.
It's not like they got a lot out of the 2nd round pick as it was.
The only second round pick worthy was Demeco. Too bad we shipped him out of here instead of Mario.
Bridgewater could have been another one.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
The only second round pick worthy was Demeco. Too bad we shipped him out of here instead of Mario.
Bridgewater could have been another one.
Since Bridgewater was taken in the 1st no he couldn't.
I think Barwin, Tate, Reed and DJ were fine picks also.
Blake
MMQB
Yep.... Because scores like Ryan Fitzpatrick's 48 or Blaine Gabbert's 42 offer some insight on how those guys were destined to be great NFL quarterbacks!
lol - Nice straw man argument. Never said that a wonderlic means you will or will not be a good QB.
Lets just say it takes 10 good traits to be a good NFL QB.
#1 on the list is to not be a dummy.
Fitz had #1, but obviously doesn't have the other 9.
Jones doesnt even have #1.
On what do you base your knowledge of Jones' s intelligence?
Blake
MMQB
http://deadspin.com/5949274/ohio-states-third-string-quarterback-aint-come-to-play-school
Thats really all I need.
I was about to ask the same question....
PapaL
Loose Screw
Some of us have grown up since 2012...and from our Freshman year in college.
Blake
MMQB
Im sure some of you have.
That's a small amount of evidence to base such a definitive judgement on. If that how you though I guess that's all you need.
I don't know how many times I said, "College would be fun if it wasn't for the classes" when I was in school. They did cut into the time I had for carousing. I think it would be inaccurate to base an evaluation of my intelligence on that. Then again, maybe I'm just too dumb to know I'm dumb.
Do you think it would be accurate to judge your intelligence and suitability for employment on a couple of sentences pulled off of a post in this message board?
Classes were a necessary evil. Without them, you're limiting your dating pool to clubs.
Actually, I quite often use a couple of sentences pulled off posts from this message board as a benchmark of intelligence. Probably as accurate as the Wonderlich.
I guess I do too. In fact, I did it about six posts back.
Blake
MMQB
Is that really something you said often? Were you dumb enough to tweet it out, or back in your day etch it onto a stone tablet? Kidding.
Look, we disagree, you dont think he is dumb, I dont think he is smart enough to run an NFL offense.
Ill make you a bet right now that he will fail in the NFL as a QB.
Blake
MMQB
Oooohhhh! Wicked burn bro!
I guess your post about taking a college QB with 3 starts to his name over a multi year starter who has been drafted and in the NFL for a year makes you sound super smart and makes a lot of sense.
I don't see where Runner said that. What he's implying is that there's not enough evidence for fans like ourselves to make that assertion.
That's a sucker bet, seeing that the overwhelming majority of college QBs fail (or never get the opportunity) as NFL QBs. The fair bet would be whether an NFL team gives Jones that chance.
Blake
MMQB
He did say that he would take Jones over Savage right now. With a comment like that he is implying that he doesn't think Jones is too dumb. Unless you are saying that Runner thinks a dumb Jones is better than Savage. If that's the case then wow, he really hates Savage.
Im not interested in betting on what a QB starved GM or coach might do, I am interested in how Jones does at the QB position.
I had a similar view on Newton, and he has done nothing to disprove me since his rookie season before everyone figured his ass out. Jones is lower than Newton.
Again, how would Runner, you, or any other fan be able to judge whether or not Jones has the mental facilities to QB in the NFL? It's a rhetorical question, so no need to answer.
Runner also doesn't have the knowledge that would allow him to pass judgement on Savage's mental capabilities. So he is just going off of what he has seen of Savage and Jones on the field of play. And he deems Jones to be the superior prospect.
I happen to agree with that.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Bah said it on the 1st page...but i'll reiterate, he needs to go back to school; whether or not that's OSU should really be the only question for him right now b/c he's not ready. 4 year starters in college aren't really ready for the NFL when they come out much less a guy with 3 total career starts to his credit.
If he has any aspirations of succeeding and getting a real chance to start in the NFL as well as cashing in, if i were him i wouldn't trade that chip in for 3rd-4th round money now.
If he has any aspirations of succeeding and getting a real chance to start in the NFL as well as cashing in, if i were him i wouldn't trade that chip in for 3rd-4th round money now.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
He's apparently making a live announcement in a few hours at his old high school on announce his decision. That leads me to think he will declare.
Blake
MMQB
"I am taking my talents to South Houston. Go Coogs!"
I don't know if Cardale Jones has any grasp on anthropology, economics, or engineering, or whether he could give a rip.
I do know he was tasked with grasping gameplans to beat Wisconsin/Alabama/Oregon on short notice and the lights shining as bright as could be, and he went 46-75 for 742 w/ 5td's to 2 ints, and 3 W's and two trophies.
The guy may not need to be handling dissertations on foreign policy or quantum field theory, but he may just have a knack for processing football. Let's see if his wonderlic scores above the Marino line.
I do know he was tasked with grasping gameplans to beat Wisconsin/Alabama/Oregon on short notice and the lights shining as bright as could be, and he went 46-75 for 742 w/ 5td's to 2 ints, and 3 W's and two trophies.
The guy may not need to be handling dissertations on foreign policy or quantum field theory, but he may just have a knack for processing football. Let's see if his wonderlic scores above the Marino line.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Wisconsin on relatively short notice, yes. Alabama and Oregon no. Dude had a full 3 weeks to get ready for Bama and another 2 weeks to get ready Oregon.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
His RB also ran for 696 yards and 8 TD's in his 3 starts while his defense held his 3 opponents to an average of 23 ppg below their season averages.
Let's be real. If he's 6-1, 210 then nobody really cares. But because he's 6-5, 250 and can throw the ball far this is now a thing.
Blake
MMQB
Was just about to say that. Not taking away from Jones, he was really good. His TEAM is what won those games. His RB was playing OUT OF HIS DAMN MIND! His defense was also keeping opponents out of the end zone and limiting them to field goals.
I think you're underestimating what a challenge it would be for a guy to go from third string to preparing for the top two teams in the country with the title on the line on all of a whole couple weeks notice.
He's not 6-1, 210. He is 6-5, 250, and can throw a cruise missile.
AND he did the things he did.
Just for discussion's sake, let's say some team takes a 4th round flyer on Jones like we did on Savage.
Savage's contract:
That's $630K he could pocket for his wife and little baby vs. possibly riding the pine behind Braxton Miller or J.T. Barrett next season.
Is he NFL ready? Heck no!
Could he be made NFL ready with a year (or two) of OTAs, mini-camps, training camps, and specialty QB camps? Possibly.
But he'd be getting paid to learn.
Savage's contract:
That's $630K he could pocket for his wife and little baby vs. possibly riding the pine behind Braxton Miller or J.T. Barrett next season.
Is he NFL ready? Heck no!
Could he be made NFL ready with a year (or two) of OTAs, mini-camps, training camps, and specialty QB camps? Possibly.
But he'd be getting paid to learn.
PapaL
Loose Screw
He'd be getting paid more than he's getting at Ohio State to learn.
I'm sure there are worse QBs in the NFL right now.
Well, let's look at that.
Multi-year starter at multiple schools - sometimes winning the starting job, sometimes losing it. Someone who makes snap decisions might consider his inability to follow through at one school a negative. Some who give it more consideration might also come to the same conclusion. Others might consider that a strength.
A year of NFL experience - good point; since this is a plus we don't have to consider the "he's just a rookie" excuse. When he was put into a game he couldn't even hand off properly among other questionable actions. I was not impressed during the small amount of time he played; others seem to think he showed great potential. Do I hate Savage? No. I just don't think he has shown as much as others think he has.
Drafted in the NFL - I think Jones will probably be drafted in the NFL at some point, so that is a wash.
=================
College quarterback with three starts to his name - blowout win in conference championship, solid win over #1 ranked Alabama, comfortable win over #2 Oregon for NCAA Championship. He is inexperienced, but I take those wins as a positive since he was able to perform under pressure without those multi-year starter qualifications. I hardly think "only three starts" makes him a bad player. He might actually get better with more experience and coaching. In other words, he has potential, just as others claim for Savage.
He was surrounded by an extremely talented team, so he didn't "win" those games by himself. However, he did his fair share - he didn't just ride the coattails of the rest of the team, nor did he play so badly his team was at risk of losing.
=======================
Therefore, I think it does make sense to consider Jones over Savage if a team is looking to develop a third string quarterback with potential.
Yeah, he could only get $100k-$150k max if he stayed at Ohio State.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
perhaps...but lets not overestimate it either. He handled himself well, but i'm more inclined to believe that alot of guys could as well given the talent he had surrounding him.
TexansFTW
Veteran
As long as we don't draft him in the 4th I am fine. Good for him for doing enough to get drafted. I'm sure the advisory board told him he's got an outsiders chance at the 3rd round, but likely a 4th round projection and that was good enough for him with the state of flux he's in at the OSU QB position.
No one calls a press conference to say they are staying put except the press conferences that followed around Tim Tebow, so I think it's pretty safe to say he's making himself eligible.
And Runner... he wasn't a multi-year starting QB at multiple schools. He got beat out everywhere he went except his last spot, but it's not like Pitt had 5 stars banging down their door. I definitely don't view it as a strength, huge glaring weakness in fact, but everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I respect that. Looking at upside though, I think most would agree that Jones has the "upside", but upside is such a BS thing nowadays and it's almost never realized.
No one calls a press conference to say they are staying put except the press conferences that followed around Tim Tebow, so I think it's pretty safe to say he's making himself eligible.
And Runner... he wasn't a multi-year starting QB at multiple schools. He got beat out everywhere he went except his last spot, but it's not like Pitt had 5 stars banging down their door. I definitely don't view it as a strength, huge glaring weakness in fact, but everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I respect that. Looking at upside though, I think most would agree that Jones has the "upside", but upside is such a BS thing nowadays and it's almost never realized.
You are correct. I should have just said "started at multiple schools". That sounds kind of weak though.
Yeah, he could only get $100k-$150k max if he stayed at Ohio State.
I KNEW someone would say something like this. I must confess I didn't think it would be you.
Just keepin' it real.
I KNEW someone would say something like this. I must confess I didn't think it would be you.
There was a certain amount of talent arrayed against him too. While he didn't carry the Buckeyes to victory on his own, there are a lot of QBs that couldn't handle that kind of pressure as well as he did. Heck, there was a Heisman trophy winner on the other side of the field that faded under the pressure, and he had years of experience to prepare him for the big game.
I wouldn't minimize the challenge Jones faced.
The issue was his intelligence, or those doubting it based off of some tweet a couple years ago.
I'm willing to give him more of a pass on not being an academic in light of his thus far ability to process football at the highest level put in front of him under pressure and seemingly handle himself awfully well.