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The improbable improvement of Kareem Jackson

powda said:
12.96 million projected for a franchise tagged cb this year? Bye.
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sold

kareem's not the traditional hawk like asante. he's not a shutdown #1 like revis. he's not a heavy #2 like a cromartie. but he's damn near all of them, and exceptionally above their weaknesses. i'd put kareem outside on megatron without a second thought. i'd put him on welker inside. i'd trust him to under zone his own reads against a patriots offense. i'd let him "peyton/watt" himself if kareem wanted tell the coaches "adjust - i got this" to take over an assignment. essentially i'd dare anyone to find enough bad tape to tell kareem what he CANT do.

somebody WILL pay him if we dont. even if an "elite" shows up on the market, kareem will be a top 3 corner on the market and signed as soon as a deal can be done.
 
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Scooter said:
somebody WILL pay him if we dont.
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No, someone will OVERPAY him, and we won't.

If he was really interested in re-signing, he would have done it already. He remembers full well how badly the fanbase treated him the first two years he was here. I'm not going to speculate on how much that will factor into his decision, as it will be the $$$ that does most of the talking. But I'm a good reader of body language. On a recent radio interview, they asked him point blank if he wanted to remain a Texan. He hemmed and hawed around it so much that the interviewer had to ask him again, "do you want to remain a Texan?" After a pause, he finally said yes, but anyone listening could tell that he really doesn't.

That's why I made my earlier post, saying that they should rename this thread to "improbable re-signing" because that interview convinced me that he is gone, gone, GONE.
 
Marcus said:
No, someone will OVERPAY him, and we won't.

If he was really interested in re-signing, he would have done it already. He remembers full well how badly the fanbase treated him the first two years he was here. I'm not going to speculate on how much that will factor into his decision, as it will be the $$$ that does most of the talking. But I'm a good reader of body language. On a recent radio interview, they asked him point blank if he wanted to remain a Texan. He hemmed and hawed around it so much that the interviewer had to ask him again, "do you want to remain a Texan?" After a pause, he finally said yes, but anyone listening could tell that he really doesn't.

That's why I made my earlier post, saying that they should rename this thread to "improbable re-signing" because that interview convinced me that he is gone, gone, GONE.
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I wanted to draw a similarity between Mario Williams and Kj. The fan base treated both like hell early on and it's something they'll remember. Someone will offer Jackson more then we're willing and he's gone. It sucks. One of my favs on defense...
 
Marcus said:
If he was really interested in re-signing, he would have done it already.
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This is a ridiculous statement. It takes two to tango and we have no indication the Texans have ever approached him. And they have a stated general policy of not negotiating during the season.

But I'm a good reader of body language. On a recent radio interview, they asked him point blank if he wanted to remain a Texan.
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You really don't see the problem with those two sentences?
 
infantrycak said:
You really don't see the problem with those two sentences?
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Webcast?

infantrycak said:
A.This is a ridiculous statement. It takes two to tango and we have no indication the Texans have ever approached him.

B. And they have a stated general policy of not negotiating during the season.
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A. We have no indication the Texans DIDN'T approach him.

B. The Texans have a history of signing contracts in advance of the season which they may or may not have explored (see A.) Would you agree it's now the offseason for the Texans?
 
Scooter said:
i've had quite the bug this past week, and am currently drowning the remainder ... i'm glad to know that a fevered drunk is the sane one compared to the mess powda and marcus have put forth. a polite statement compared to the tirade that 'teehee' had become.
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You dont think it's feasible we will lose KJ in free agency? That bug is still there.
 
infantrycak said:
No I mean because of what I quoted, that being the purpose of the quote.

Nobody argued it wasn't feasible to lose KJ.

Of course we could lose KJ. Duh.
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Well if you read my post along with Mr. Marcus in conjuction with scooter's posts you might see he thought we were irrational for saying what you just said. DUH!
 
powda said:
You dont think it's feasible we will lose KJ in free agency? That bug is still there.
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could very well happen, DUH! to allow it to happen would be exceptionally unwise. cornerback is a position that there simply aren't enough players to fill the roles, and it would be a spectacular failure to lose such a young and complete talent because we don't want to pay him #1 money to be a #1 when someone else will offer a #1 contract.

and yes the bug is still there, which is why i attempted to bow out of the discussion before i went on record attacking the poster instead of the message.
 
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Scooter said:
to lose a franchise cornerback at kareem's age and level ...
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Kareem isn't a "franchise" cornerback. He's definitely a starter, but I'd still be on the look out for a better CB than Kareem. Right now, I'm happy if we keep either Kj or Jjo, doesn't really matter which.

Kareem is good. Should only get better. But he isn't a "must sign" at all cost kind of player.
 
thunderkyss said:
Kareem isn't a "franchise" cornerback.
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this is where my disagreement is, i strongly feel that kareem is a franchise corner. i'd be completely comfortable giving him the 6 year deal and saying "you're our guy". if he hits the market, that's exactly what another team will do, and we'll be left with an aging joseph on his last contract year and guys who would fall apart when asked to do heavy lifting.
 
Does anyone else remember - I seem to recall that KJ was offered a contract extension prior to this past season and he declined, choosing to see what his value would be as a FA.
 
Scooter said:
this is where my disagreement is, i strongly feel that kareem is a franchise corner. i'd be completely comfortable giving him the 6 year deal and saying "you're our guy". if he hits the market, that's exactly what another team will do, and we'll be left with an aging joseph on his last contract year and guys who would fall apart when asked to do heavy lifting.
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Yes. Teams are in the habit of over-valuing players in free agency. We need to stay out of that game. While we would have an aging Jjo, we'd also have Bouye & Morris. I wouldn't ask either to play a #1 WR... that's what Jjo is for. But I have no problem starting either guy on a #2 or a slot.

We can also draft a CB. It wouldn't be the end of the world.

Number19 said:
Does anyone else remember - I seem to recall that KJ was offered a contract extension prior to this past season and he declined, choosing to see what his value would be as a FA.
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I remember seeing that somewhere. I did a goodle search earlier when 'cak & Marcus were going at it, but can't find it. Maybe it was something McClain said on the radio.
 
Scooter said:
this is where my disagreement is, i strongly feel that kareem is a franchise corner. i'd be completely comfortable giving him the 6 year deal and saying "you're our guy". if he hits the market, that's exactly what another team will do, and we'll be left with an aging joseph on his last contract year and guys who would fall apart when asked to do heavy lifting.
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I don't necessarily agree with that, but let's say you're correct. There's still the issue of where does the $$$ come from to re-sign Jackson? Here's the spotrac page for the Texans 2015 cap (2015 already-wow). I don't know how to make that happen. Cutting Joseph saves cap room. But it still leaves $3.75 million of dead money. That's why it would actually be cheaper to keep Joseph (if they renegotiate).

And if we're going to assume the Texans are going to re-sign Mallett (all indications are they will), that won't be free. Not a ridiculous contract, but not nothing. Jackson is a good enough corner to get a $8-9 million deal from a CB needy team that has gobs of cap space. He would likely get a better deal on the open market than Joseph due to age difference. Which is why it will be easier to make a deal with Johnathan.

I see your point. I just think there's only so much the Texans can do this offseason. I see this as the most likely way to deal with the CB situation.
 
JB said:
so no FA to replace him with and no likely starting corner in draft...
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There are three juniors, who have declared or intend to declare, that I have my eye on. It's still way early for ranking, but all three are potentially first round picks. They have size, speed and ability to cover man-to-man: Trae Williams, 6'-1", 182 lbs, low 4.4's or faster; Ronald Darby, 5'-11", 195 lbs, low 4.4's; Jalen Collins, 6'-2", 195 lbs, mid 4.4's.

There are also two other juniors who have declared who will likely be taken in the first two rounds. The reason I have them rated a notch below the others is that I've seen comments that they are better suited for zone coverage, immediately. These two are : Alex Carter, 6'-0", 200 lbs, mid 4.4's; and P.J. Williams, 6'-0", 196 lbs, mid 4.4's.

I definitely would not mind selecting a CB at #16. If we did, he will likely be capable of contributing immediately. But I'm with Infantrycak, the talent is sufficiently deep that we should take a CB in the first two rounds.

If we could re-sign KJ, and draft one of these talents, we should have this position secured for the next 5 years.
 
Number19 said:
Does anyone else remember - I seem to recall that KJ was offered a contract extension prior to this past season and he declined, choosing to see what his value would be as a FA.
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McClain said this on 610 on my way home from work yesterday. Said Kareem is the teams #1 priority to resign but thinks a team like the Raiders, who have TONS of cap room, could overpay him. He is considered the best CB in free agency this year and only in his mid twenties
 
DX-TEX said:
McClain said this on 610 on my way home from work yesterday. Said Kareem is the teams #1 priority to resign but thinks a team like the Raiders, who have TONS of cap room, could overpay him. He is considered the best CB in free agency this year and only in his mid twenties
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If Revis makes it to free agency, he's the #1 CB (regardless of age). After that, Jackson and the Niners Chris Culliver are neck & neck.
 
infantrycak said:
Under his current contract, to keep him they will have to pay him $12.5 mil on 4/1 and his cap for this year will be $25 mil. Yes there is a very good chance he hits the market if his deal doesn't get redone.
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Brady renegotiated his contract again this year. I feel confident it is a pre-cursor to a Revis restructure and signing
 
Scooter said:
this is where my disagreement is, i strongly feel that kareem is a franchise corner. i'd be completely comfortable giving him the 6 year deal and saying "you're our guy". if he hits the market, that's exactly what another team will do, and we'll be left with an aging joseph on his last contract year and guys who would fall apart when asked to do heavy lifting.
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He wasn't even the number two corner most of the year. He was the slot cover guy.

I like Jackson and think he has become a pretty good CB but people around here are not giving Bouye, Morris and Hal enough credit. They all progressed nicely the more they played. They are all really young and going to have some bad moments but all showed they are capable of making plays and becoming good players. I would argue that at this stage of their careers have all out performed Jackson.
 
DX-TEX said:
Brady renegotiated his contract again this year. I feel confident it is a pre-cursor to a Revis restructure and signing
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The only thing that changed is the contract is guaranteed for injury only. He actually gets a bump of $1 million a year on the cap.
 
Number19 said:
There are three juniors, who have declared or intend to declare, that I have my eye on. It's still way early for ranking, but all three are potentially first round picks. They have size, speed and ability to cover man-to-man: Trae Williams, 6'-1", 182 lbs, low 4.4's or faster; Ronald Darby, 5'-11", 195 lbs, low 4.4's; Jalen Collins, 6'-2", 195 lbs, mid 4.4's.

There are also two other juniors who have declared who will likely be taken in the first two rounds. The reason I have them rated a notch below the others is that I've seen comments that they are better suited for zone coverage, immediately. These two are : Alex Carter, 6'-0", 200 lbs, mid 4.4's; and P.J. Williams, 6'-0", 196 lbs, mid 4.4's.

I definitely would not mind selecting a CB at #16. If we did, he will likely be capable of contributing immediately. But I'm with Infantrycak, the talent is sufficiently deep that we should take a CB in the first two rounds.

If we could re-sign KJ, and draft one of these talents, we should have this position secured for the next 5 years.
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Agreed, and no reason we can't do this. And to those to say to let KJ walk and just draft his replacement... how soon you forget.

Go with "kiddie korners" again? No thanks! Even if we retained JJo, a rookie corner will get eaten alive. We've seen it before, I don't want to see it again
 
mussop said:
He wasn't even the number two corner most of the year. He was the slot cover guy.
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That was by design, though. The Texans had zero confidence (at that point) of the young CBs being able to play the slot.
 
Lucky said:
I don't necessarily agree with that, but let's say you're correct. There's still the issue of where does the $$$ come from to re-sign Jackson? Here's the spotrac page for the Texans 2015 cap (2015 already-wow). I don't know how to make that happen. Cutting Joseph saves cap room. But it still leaves $3.75 million of dead money. That's why it would actually be cheaper to keep Joseph (if they renegotiate).
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The net cap savings of letting Joseph go would be the $8.5 million that is his current 2015 base salary. If the only realistic scenario is to keep just one of these two guys, I'd rather it be Kareem - even if it means using up that entire $8.5M to retain Kareem - and being forced to find any additional cap space that may be needed elsewhere.
 
ChampionTexan said:
The net cap savings of letting Joseph go would be the $8.5 million that is his current 2015 base salary. If the only realistic scenario is to keep just one of these two guys, I'd rather it be Kareem - even if it means using up that entire $8.5M to retain Kareem - and being forced to find any additional cap space that may be needed elsewhere.
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That's the choice, in a nutshell. And I would take Joseph (over the next couple of seasons). I think he's the better player. But, I'm not saying Jackson is a bad player.
 
JB said:
...a rookie corner will get eaten alive. We've seen it before, I don't want to see it again
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The Texan player I compare all potential first round CB's to is Dunta Robinson. I just looked and he ran in the mid 4.3's. Something for me to keep in mind as we progress toward the draft.

KJ ran in the high 4.4's, so this year's CB's may be a step faster than Kareem but several steps slower than Dunta. We'll have to wait for the combine to see.
 
Lucky said:
That's the choice, in a nutshell. And I would take Joseph (over the next couple of seasons). I think he's the better player. But, I'm not saying Jackson is a bad player.
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A good GM would find a way to keep both... :kitten:
 
Number19 said:
KJ ran in the high 4.4's, so this year's CB's may be a step faster than Kareem but several steps slower than Dunta. We'll have to wait for the combine to see.
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Track speed wasn't the issue. Jackson played slow because he was over-thinking and received poor coaching. It's natural for Texans fans to be leery of starting a rookie CB.
 
JB said:
A good GM would find a way to keep both... :kitten:
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That work would have been done creating space in prior seasons. I think one of the reasons Smith is still here is for him to clean up his own mess.
 
Lucky said:
That's the choice, in a nutshell. And I would take Joseph (over the next couple of seasons). I think he's the better player. But, I'm not saying Jackson is a bad player.
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That is the choice and it's a tough one. JJo is the better player but KJ is younger. I do think there are things they could do to keep both.

JJo - 2 year extension, $9 mil signing, salaries $1, 6, 6. Cap hits $7.8, 9, 9. $4.45 savings 2015.

Myers - 2 year extension, $7.5 mil signing, salaries $1, 3.0, 3.0. Cap hits $5.5, 5.5, 5.5. $2.5 savings 2015.

That's $6.95 for KJ and the first year on deals is usually below the average.
 
infantrycak said:
That is the choice and it's a tough one. JJo is the better player but KJ is younger. I do think there are things they could do to keep both.

JJo - 2 year extension, $9 mil signing, salaries $1, 6, 6. Cap hits $7.8, 9, 9. $4.45 savings 2015.

Myers - 2 year extension, $7.5 mil signing, salaries $1, 3.0, 3.0. Cap hits $5.5, 5.5, 5.5. $2.5 savings 2015.

That's $6.95 for KJ and the first year on deals is usually below the average.
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cak for GM?
 
My mention of speed wasn't a knock on Kareem. But speed can't be taught; and can make up for an error or misread. When I see a draft prospect with size and speed, and already has experience in man-to-man, that is the CB I can't pass on at #16. And elite speed is the 4.3's.
 
JB said:
so no FA to replace him with and no likely starting corner in draft...
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Even if we took a guy in the first, we won't be under any pressure to start him right away. Morris/Bouye will allow us to bring the young corner at whatever pace is deemed necessary... granted we don't lose both Kj & Jjo that is.

I'd hate going into the season with Morris & Bouye starting. One or the other. Not both.
 
JB said:
And to those to say to let KJ walk and just draft his replacement... how soon you forget.

Go with "kiddie korners" again? No thanks! Even if we retained JJo, a rookie corner will get eaten alive. We've seen it before, I don't want to see it again
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You're talking about a time we had a 2nd year player & a rookie starting with another 2nd year player as the nickel back.

Our situation would be nothing like that. Jjo is still under contract. He'd be the guy we put on the #1 WR. Then we'd have two 2nd year guys & a rookie to choose from for the other two spots & we won't be playing as much man coverage.
 
Number19 said:
Does anyone else remember - I seem to recall that KJ was offered a contract extension prior to this past season and he declined, choosing to see what his value would be as a FA.
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thunderkyss said:
I remember seeing that somewhere. I did a goodle search earlier when 'cak & Marcus were going at it, but can't find it. Maybe it was something McClain said on the radio.
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Google the words "Texans tried to sign Jackson" and see what you come up with.:)
 
BTW I am definitely NOT in favor of starting a rookie CB next year. Find a way to make sure this does NOT happen!!!!!:kubepalm::mariopalm::roast:
 
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