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How much is Andre worth to you?

How much is Andre worth against the cap?

  • $16M Let it ride, we're not going after high dollar Fas anyway

    Votes: 15 20.5%

  • $12M As long as we save $4M against the cap, I'm happy

    Votes: 9 12.3%

  • $10M We need to save at least $6M against the cap if we're going to keep Andre Johnson

    Votes: 21 28.8%

  • $8M He's not worth more than a $5M cap hit, but I respect what he's done for the organization

    Votes: 14 19.2%

  • $6M We can sign a vet receiver for $6M

    Votes: 10 13.7%

  • $0 The team is better off without him

    Votes: 4 5.5%
  • Total voters
    73
Getting back to the topic (Andre), here's a reasonable take on a salary reduction + extension:

http://troymchapman.wordpress.com

Johnson is on contract through the 2016 season; and has already stated he wants to play three more seasons and finish with Houston. The team should look at adding one year to his contract, reducing his salary for all three years, while guaranteeing some of the reduced salary.

2015 reduce his salary from $10.5 million to $5 million; fully guarantee the $5 million.
2016 reduce his salary from $11 million to $6 million; fully guarantee $2.5 million and/or guarantee the full $5 million for injury only.
2017 offer a $7 million salary.
Result: $5.5 million savings towards the salary cap in 2015.

This would be less lucrative for AJ than the restructuring I suggested above, and I doubt the limited amount of guaranteed money suggested would be at all compelling to obtain agreement. However it would provide significant cap relief.
 
JB said:
And what were his regular season stats that year, which is what I referenced...

You may have missed the key word "until"
Click to expand...

I should have quoted TK. I was responding to his assertion Flacco rode a good D to a ring akin to Dilfer. That simply isn't the case.

But to your question, Flacco regular season has not been as good as pre injury Schaub which makes a little silly the proclamations the Texans never could have won with him.
 
infantrycak said:
I should have quoted TK. I was responding to his assertion Flacco rode a good D to a ring akin to Dilfer. That simply isn't the case.

But to your question, Flacco regular season has not been as good as pre injury Schaub which makes a little silly the proclamations the Texans never could have won with him.
Click to expand...

exactly... defense can and has won championships... don't need an elite qb, tho Schaub pre injury was close to one
 
Last edited:
infantrycak said:
I should have quoted TK. I was responding to his assertion Flacco rode a good D to a ring akin to Dilfer. That simply isn't the case.
Click to expand...

Dilfer was definitely the flier in the group. I do not think he compares to any of the QBs mentioned. However, on his Super Bowl run I'd bet he made a play or two that helped win those rings. I don't remember off the top of my head, but he just had to have.

Flacco had a great run in the play-offs. But if the Ravens D didn't step up, San Francisco scores on that 4th down & we're talking about how well Kaepernick played.

All I'm saying is while we're looking for our QB of the future, we can't drop the ball as it concerns our defense or our running game. They'll have to at least be where we were in 2014...

hmm... I guess what I'm really saying is we wasted 2014. IF we had a play maker at the QB position we could've contended for a Super Bowl. Oh well, onto wasting 2015.
 
JB said:
exactly... defense can and has won championships... don't need an elite qb, tho Schaup pre injury was close to one
Click to expand...

& I'm saying if we ever find an elite QB, we're going to need that defense.
 
thunderkyss said:
& I'm saying if we ever find an elite QB, we're going to need that defense.
Click to expand...

Yes, regardless of the QB we are going to need defense. I'm just saying with a dominant enough defense even Fitzpatrick (ok, maybe not that far) or a fair QB can take us where we want to go.

Times have changed tho to so favor the offense you probably need someone that can at least handle the offense enough to put up 17-24 ppg
 
infantrycak said:
I should have quoted TK. I was responding to his assertion Flacco rode a good D to a ring akin to Dilfer. That simply isn't the case.

But to your question, Flacco regular season has not been as good as pre injury Schaub which makes a little silly the proclamations the Texans never could have won with him.
Click to expand...

You are still on this Schaub stuff? Dude, let it go. He was never a winner. Good god, he never could be clutch either but a very few times and failed almost every other time. Schaub had a nice yards and decent TD numbers like two maybe three years, but he was pretty much right on par with Flacco. Flacco's SB post season run was probably pretty fluky, but he was never the statue that Schaub was. Schaub was accurate, but Flacco has never had such a noodle arm like Schaub had. Schaub never put fear in any defenses like other QB's have. He just didn't. The best Texans season they ever had Schaub completely fell apart and pretty much gave the Texans no chance once the post season came around. The other playoff season they had he wasn't around to even play.
 
pamperofirpo said:
Getting back to the topic (Andre), here's a reasonable take on a salary reduction + extension:

http://troymchapman.wordpress.com

Johnson is on contract through the 2016 season; and has already stated he wants to play three more seasons and finish with Houston. The team should look at adding one year to his contract, reducing his salary for all three years, while guaranteeing some of the reduced salary.

2015 reduce his salary from $10.5 million to $5 million; fully guarantee the $5 million.
2016 reduce his salary from $11 million to $6 million; fully guarantee $2.5 million and/or guarantee the full $5 million for injury only.
2017 offer a $7 million salary.
Result: $5.5 million savings towards the salary cap in 2015.

This would be less lucrative for AJ than the restructuring I suggested above, and I doubt the limited amount of guaranteed money suggested would be at all compelling to obtain agreement. However it would provide significant cap relief.
Click to expand...
You realize Troy is a member of TT right?
 
Get rid of Foster. He's hurt too much. Get rid of Andre, he's too old. Get rid of Reed he's not good enough. Kinda like Quinn, Forset, Barwin, Demeco, Winston, Daniels and others. Be the training spot for all the leagues stars. Go Rick Smith!
 
infantrycak said:
I should have quoted TK. I was responding to his assertion Flacco rode a good D to a ring akin to Dilfer. That simply isn't the case.

But to your question, Flacco regular season has not been as good as pre injury Schaub which makes a little silly the proclamations the Texans never could have won with him.
Click to expand...

Schaub shrank under pressure. Every time we played either a must win, important divisional game, or a prime time game, Schaub was terrible. Andy Dalton, Matthew Stafford, and Matt Schaub are cut from the same cloth.

Which pre-injury are you referring too? The one in 2007? 2008? or 2011?
 
Texecutioner said:
No, not in the realm that many in here clearly say they do. When you want a guy on the team at the expense of the franchise from being able to improve or you'd want your franchise to pay double or triple what the guy is worth knowing that it could very likely hold the team back, then your goals for the team really aren't for it to be the best that it can be. Your goals are more for that individual player's presence. That is not fair to the rest of the guys on the team that are looking to go all of the way in my opinion. Players get older and they lose their value. It happens with all players. As a kid, when I wasn't rooting for the Oilers I rooted for the 49ers and was a huge Montana fan. I hated them for getting rid of Montana, because I thought it was a year to early, but deep down I knew they were probably doing the smart thing and what was best for the franchise at the time. They didn't do wrong by Montana. It is a sport and it is a business. They had a slightly younger guy in Young that was great and had more years left and they still won a SB with Young. They thought about the entire franchise instead of one player even though they had the best QB of all time at that particular time. I also enjoy rooting on my favorite players when they join other teams. It creates a new interest to watch them in a new situation. I enjoyed watching Montana on the Chiefs. A certain part of me has always wanted to see what AJ would look like on another team as well since the majority of the time he has been on the Texans, they have been awful. I've barely gotten to see him play at all in the playoffs, and I feel pretty let down and jaded by that. I always will honestly.
Click to expand...

Don't be too upset when Bob McNair feels differently about A.J.

I have very little to no doubt about A.J. retiring as a Texan, mainly based on direct quotes from the owner over the years.

infantrycak said:
Lots of "you guys" and no substance.
Click to expand...

Dern, man, right when I was starting to feel like my opinions mattered and influenced the front office, you come along and :pop:

Texecutioner said:
It is a lot harder to win that way though. It is possible, but so very few teams end up winning in consistent years that way or ever make it to the SB. The Ravens and the Bucs did. The Bears got to the SB with Grossman as well.
Click to expand...

Don't forget Eli Manning. He's the epitome of the Jim Plunkett syndrome (i.e. multiple Super Bowl wins but never a HoF career).

infantrycak said:
Flacco had 11 tds, 0 ints, 280 ypg and a QB rating of 118 during their SB post season. He was anything but a game manager who got a ring.
Click to expand...

He's an elite game manager. :bubble:
 
TEXANRED said:
I was attempting to be jocose about the subject. No reason to call me obtuse. :kitten:
Click to expand...
jocose and obtuse, whooee I loved dem big words. I remember an obtuse triangle from the geometry class I withdrew passing from and jocose is sort of a fancy bath tub for them that can't afford a hot tub right?
 
badboy said:
jocose and obtuse, whooee I loved dem big words. I remember an obtuse triangle from the geometry class I withdrew passing from and jocose is sort of a fancy bath tub for them that can't afford a hot tub right?
Click to expand...

Don't be impressed. I had to go to Thesaurus.com. I was playing with Icak but I guess he was not in a persiflage mood.
 
eriadoc said:
To bring this discussion back to the topic of WR, Anquan Boldin had a great run in the playoffs. ;)
Click to expand...

He was clutch. & while I love him to death, our veteran WR was most definitely not. I hope he honestly looks back at this season, think about what might have been had he played his game & dedicates himself to being the guy we all know & love in 2015
 
Call me crazy, but I would go get Dez Bryant in FA then cut AJ. Dez and Dhop would be insane.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 
Dez would cost way 2 much and we could not out bid jerry if Andre leaves we should just get another cheapo f/a wr and then pick up another wr in the draft

I think tho a Wes Welker type would be nice we need a fast slot guy not another outside reciver
 
DocBar said:
Call me crazy, but I would go get Dez Bryant in FA then cut AJ. Dez and Dhop would be insane.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I understand wanting Dez because of his ability, but man I can't stand that guy. If the Texans signed him, I'd start routing for the XFL to make a come back.
 
How much is Andre worth to the team?

I guess it depends on who the QB is. If it is Case Keenum, he seems to be worth an awful lot, if the QB is one of the other guys, not so much.
 
What I can't believe is that 9 people in this forum actually would be arrogant enough to pay a guy 16 Mill this season at age 34/35 when the team doesn't have any type of answer at the QB position to make that investment even fulfilled. Actually I can' believe it considering the things I've heard in here over the years, but it continues to amaze me at how some people would do that, and then claim that they are highly invested in the hopes of a team going to a SB.
 
Texecutioner said:
What I can't believe is that 9 people in this forum actually would be arrogant enough to pay a guy 16 Mill this season at age 34/35 when the team doesn't have any type of answer at the QB position to make that investment even fulfilled. Actually I can' believe it considering the things I've heard in here over the years, but it continues to amaze me at how some people would do that, and then claim that they are highly invested in the hopes of a team going to a SB.
Click to expand...

They put Andre above winning super bowls. Or the concept of a salary cap is foreign to them.
 
steelbtexan said:
They put Andre above winning super bowls. Or the concept of a salary cap is foreign to them.
Click to expand...

Well we've seen that in here quite a bit though. There are posters in here who still want Kubiak here and will never truly give OB a chance. Having a certain player or a certain coach that they adore is way more important than the franchise's goals. I've seen that in multiple instances with different posters.


I wouldn't care who the receiver is you are talking about. I wouldn't pay any WR in any era that kind of money. Hell, with that salary you could very easily be paying two really good WR's and a good pass catching TE possibly. They wouldn't all have to be on their best deals of their career at the time, but two of them possibly could be. That amount of cash would leave you thin at several other key positions.
 
Texecutioner said:
Well we've seen that in here quite a bit though. There are posters in here who still want Kubiak here and will never truly give OB a chance. Having a certain player or a certain coach that they adore is way more important than the franchise's goals. I've seen that in multiple instances with different posters.


I wouldn't care who the receiver is you are talking about. I wouldn't pay any WR in any era that kind of money. Hell, with that salary you could very easily be paying two really good WR's and a good pass catching TE possibly. They wouldn't all have to be on their best deals of their career at the time, but two of them possibly could be. That amount of cash would leave you thin at several other key positions.
Click to expand...
You make some good points in the bolded. The Pats and Seahawks don't have an elite WR on their roster. It's kind of amazing that Brady has put up the numbers he has, considering who he's had to throw the ball to.
 
DocBar said:
You make some good points in the bolded. The Pats and Seahawks don't have an elite WR on their roster.
Click to expand...

The Seahawks are somewhat of an anomaly considering they have such trash at WR, but they have a QB who constantly sneaks and gets first downs and a top 5 RB that punishes defenses. You add that with a top 3 defense, and it's a pretty good formula, but if Wilson wasn't so fast and small to be able to fit in those small windows where he gets loose, I don't think it works quite as well.





DocBar said:
kind of amazing that Brady has put up the numbers he has, considering who he's had to throw the ball to.
Click to expand...

The Patriots are another anomaly simply because they have Brady. With a QB like that, you can get away with all types of stuff you can't with other teams. That is why I say that Brady is the greatest because that franchise is constantly re-tooling him with random WR's every year in many cases that are under sized, old, or simply average, and Brady every year has elite level stats, wins his division, and is in the AFC championship. Hell it is practically Brady vs the AFC every year if you think about it. The Pats are in that game every year. But The Pats are only able to do that because Brady is there, and that certainly isn't the norm.


Most I'd feel a top flight WR is worth paying is about 10 Mill to your cap. And that WR would have to be a top 5 type of guy every year to get a contract like that. There are just to many positions that you have to fill on both sides of the ball to make your entire team successful. The most important positions I think on a FB field that you allocate the most money to if you can get great players should be QB, LT, LB and DE. That is just my opinion. There are always rare exceptions though when you're one of the greatest of all time like Polumolu, Ed Reed, Jerry Rice, Ronnie Lott, Revis, Deon Sanders, Casey Hampton, and etc. Rare guys like that you pay a little more than the league average for elite players at the position.
 
Texecutioner said:
The Seahawks are somewhat of an anomaly considering they have such trash at WR, but they have a QB who constantly sneaks and gets first downs and a top 5 RB that punishes defenses. You add that with a top 3 defense, and it's a pretty good formula, but if Wilson wasn't so fast and small to be able to fit in those small windows where he gets loose, I don't think it works quite as well.
Click to expand...

Wilson's dime-store WRs are letting him down. I'll bet he sure would like to have a Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald today.
 
Norg said:
No I just think hes, not worth the money or time with the amount t he is, putting out and the age trend he's going in js, he wants upper mid teir money I think
Click to expand...

??

Year before last, he put up 1,407 yards with Pick6 & Case Keenum throwing him the ball. That was good for 7th in the league, only 20 yards behind Demaryus Thomas (& Peyton Manning) & Aj Green.

Cut him some slack for last season
 
Norg said:
No I just think hes, not worth the money or time with the amount t he is, putting out and the age trend he's going in js, he wants upper mid teir money I think
Click to expand...

Who would you get to take his place as the #2 WR and how much would you be willing to pay that guy?

Oh and I want him to bring Andre's top twenty reception numbers with him too.
 
thunderkyss said:
??

Year before last, he put up 1,407 yards with Pick6 & Case Keenum throwing him the ball. That was good for 7th in the league, only 20 yards behind Demaryus Thomas (& Peyton Manning) & Aj Green.

Cut him some slack for last season
Click to expand...

Exactly, one bad season does not tell the story. He can still be elite !
 
Just playing with numbers - Two years extension:

Current:

2015
Signing Bonus (Dead Money) $4,644,583
Base Salary $10,500,000
Other Bonus $1,000,000
Cap $16,144,583
Cash $11,500,000

2016
Signing Bonus (Dead Money) $2,675,000
Base Salary $11,000,000
Other Bonus $1,000,000
Cap $14,675,000
Cash $12,000,000

Extension:

2015
Signing Bonus (Dead Money) $4,644,583 + $2,500,000
Base Salary $1,500,000
Other Bonus $0
Cap $8,644,583
Cash $11,500,000

2016
Signing Bonus (Dead Money) $2,675,000 +$2,500,000
Base Salary $4,000,000
Other Bonus $1,000,000
Cap $10,175,000
Cash $5,000,000

2017
Signing Bonus (Dead Money) +$2,500,000
Base Salary $4,000,000
Other Bonus $1,000,000
Cap $7,500,000
Cash $5,000,000

2018
Signing Bonus (Dead Money) +$2,500,000
Base Salary $4,000,000
Other Bonus $1,000,000
Cap $7,500,000
Cash $5,000,000

Benefits to Texans - Cap relief and retain HOF Player to the end.

Benefit to AJ - 2015 becomes guaranteed money and total value increases by $3M
 
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