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How much is Andre worth to you?

How much is Andre worth against the cap?

  • $16M Let it ride, we're not going after high dollar Fas anyway

    Votes: 15 20.5%

  • $12M As long as we save $4M against the cap, I'm happy

    Votes: 9 12.3%

  • $10M We need to save at least $6M against the cap if we're going to keep Andre Johnson

    Votes: 21 28.8%

  • $8M He's not worth more than a $5M cap hit, but I respect what he's done for the organization

    Votes: 14 19.2%

  • $6M We can sign a vet receiver for $6M

    Votes: 10 13.7%

  • $0 The team is better off without him

    Votes: 4 5.5%
  • Total voters
    73
thunderkyss

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I know there's an all encompassing Andre thread, but I want to know how much you would accept as a cap hit for Andre Johnson.

I haven't listened to any radio all last week, I got on this morning & I'm hearing some "stuff." I know it doesn't matter what they say, it doesn't matter what we say, but the thing that really irk'd me is that it sounded as if there was not a number that was good enough to bring Andre back. These guys did not want Andre back under any circumstances.

& I can't understand that.

He's not what he once was, but he's not hot garbage. He brings something to any team he's on.

So I want to know from you die-hards, what's he worth to you against the cap?

Keep in mind, because of previous deals his cap for 2015 will be his salary+ incentive bonus + $4.6M, so if you're going to pay him $5M in real money for the 2015 season, he'll be a $9.6M hit against the cap.

That number is reduced to slary + incentive bonus + $2.6M in 2016. All pro rated bonus money is accounted in full by 2016 & his salary should be the only thing on the cap for 2017.

For me, it's $10M. if we can get his 2015 cap number below $10M I'm more than happy with bringing Andre back another year. That will free up $6M for other players.

At the same time, if the Texans do not go out there & bring in blue chip FAs, I'd just as soon let Andre play out his current deal at $16M against the cap. That's not to say pay Andre $16M & not go after FAs. I just don't think the Texans are going after blue chip FAs as we probably don't think we're that close to being contenders. I'd be upset if they extend Andre, or play with his cap number & don't bring anyone in.
 
This was the worst year he's had as a pro, and that includes the awful '05 and '06 seasons when he had Carr at QB and no talent around him. I'll let y'all speculate as to why that is, but let's not pretend that he's a top 25 WR anymore. So I don't know how to vote, but I do know whatever I vote will be solely because I want him to retire a Texan and be honored.

EDIT - just because I know someone will challenge that, here are the numbers:

Yardage: 29th
Receptions: 13th
YPC: 200th (yes, there are 199 WRs better than AJ in terms of making the most of what they get)
YPG: 27th
TD: 78th
20+: 25th
1st Downs: 23rd
 
eriadoc said:
This was the worst year he's had as a pro, and that includes the awful '05 and '06 seasons when he had Carr at QB and no talent around him. I'll let y'all speculate as to why that is, but let's not pretend that he's a top 25 WR anymore. So I don't know how to vote, but I do know whatever I vote will be solely because I want him to retire a Texan and be honored.

EDIT - just because I know someone will challenge that, here are the numbers:

Yardage: 29th
Receptions: 13th
YPC: 200th (yes, there are 199 WRs better than AJ in terms of making the most of what they get)
YPG: 27th
TD: 78th
20+: 25th
1st Downs: 23rd
Click to expand...

Not going to challenge the numbers. I will challenge the notion that this year is "all on AJ." I think we could as easily look at last year when the team was still challenged on offense:

Yardage: 7th
Receptions: 3rd
YPC: Nope - just a BS stat that includes all sorts of 3 completion chumps and guys who only run fly routes. It's also too subject to playcalling. How many times does AJ catch the ball within 2 yards of the line of scrimmage, now how many does Hopkins.*
YPG: 7th
TD: 38th
20+: 6th
1st Downs: 2nd

Not an outside the top 25 WR at all.

* Behind the LOS was 5 for Hopkins v. 20 for AJ. Kind of hurts the average. CJ was 1.
 
I don't like the way any of the options are worded so I won't vote. I think AJ is back and if he's happy I'm happy.
 
AJ had ~30% of team targets this year. I'd very much like to have him back, but I need more information...

Will we be buying any free agent WRs? Who?

Will we be drafting any WRs? (How have we prioritized one -- what round?)

Will we be adding a Move TE with good SAQ?

Will we be adding a SlotWR?

What's the final cap number going to be?

Thanks. :) :fostering:
 
infantrycak said:
Not going to challenge the numbers. I will challenge the notion that this year is "all on AJ." I think we could as easily look at last year when the team was still challenged on offense:
Click to expand...

I am not trying to say this year is all on AJ, but I think it's pretty clear that he had his worst year and that's not all on the QB or offense. First off, Hopkins put up damn good numbers for a #2 guy with the same crappy QBs and offense. Fewer receptions, but considerably more yardage and big plays. Second, AJ got a ton of targets and did very little with them. He had opportunities. Finally, you said it yourself - last year's offense was still challenged. Yet somehow, AJ put up his numbers. AJ played with the crappiest version of Carr and put up better numbers. AJ played as a rookie on a bad team and put up better numbers. So yeah, this year's offense wasn't great, but it wasn't as bad as probably at least four other years of AJ's career. Stats don't tell the whole story, of course. But you can sure start to get sight of a picture by looking at them, and AJ's not a top 25 WR this year at all. Whether he returns to that ... who knows? He might, but I don't think anyone believes he'll have another AJ-type season again. Now it's just ride out the string and see how long he can stave off that 30-catch, 300-yard season that you know is in his future at some point.
 
At this point Hopkins is the #1. Which is not a bad thing for Andre, meaning he can go up against #2 DBs - who he can still handle.
 
Unless JJ stays healthy for the next decade, Dre is the best chance
we/Texans have of cracking the hall of fame.

That, to me, is worth something as a fan. Until then we haven't made
any mark at all on the NFL.

I want to see this team build a tradition, a tradition that says we
value the players that have given us their best years.

Dream with Toronto, Nolan with the Rangers, Earl with the Saints
-- those left a bad taste in my mouth...

If we have to pay more than market value for #80, then so be it.
Replacing him next year isn't going to make us a superbowl contender
anyway.

Maybe he gets back to his usual numbers with Mallett pulling the
trigger next year instead of StinkyPete(tm). He sure looked the part
with Keenum.

A good faith deal next year with him might get us a discount for his
remaining years -- and then he retires a Texan..
 
Pay him. He's worth more than just what he brings to the field....although that is still considerable.


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Vance87 said:
At this point Hopkins is the #1. Which is not a bad thing for Andre, meaning he can go up against #2 DBs - who he can still handle.
Click to expand...

Didn't see DCs doing that this year. Teams either played sides or put their best on him.

But with that I'm out of the AJ conversation and will step back to wait out what happens.
 
I appreciate you all taking the time. Relieved that there are no "we're better off without him" votes.
 
infantrycak said:
Didn't see DCs doing that this year. Teams either played sides or put their best on him.

But with that I'm out of the AJ conversation and will step back to wait out what happens.
Click to expand...

I saw it happen. And going off of pure numbers, Hopkins is the #1.
 
Smart teams don't overpay for sentimental reasons. Do what it takes to win on the field, period. That's what the team is there to do, win.
 
I agree Hopkins is taking over the #1 spot, but channel 13 was saying that AJ admitted he was hurting most of the year & kept it to himself. He said it wasn't until the last game that he felt well enough to run at full speed. I believe if he's healthy, AJ has another 2-3 years left in him.

As for his salary, I'd let him play out his current contract (He's earned it) & negotiate a lesser contract ($5-8 million per year) for 3 years with a team option in the 2nd & 3rd years. McNair has already gone on record as wanting AJ to retire as a Texan & I believe he was involved in reassuring AJ he would not be waived prior to his current contract expiring. It's my opinion that AJ could be a solid #2 for the rest of his career.
 
BTW, if this was AJ's last game as a Texan, what a way to go out. 10 receptions for like a buck 34 and a TD??!?!
 
infantrycak said:
Since this is a generic statement - #1 is a position not an after the fact numbers game.
Click to expand...

No, but it was obvious to me that he became the #1 this season. There was no official distinction made by the coaching staff so it is only an opinion. This isn't a knock on AJ or anything.
 
McNair's comments seem to indicate he has no problem with Johnson's contract and we can afford him next year. He started late which I wish he had not plus he had 4 QBs passing. He easily could have had 1200 yds. Blame him when he misses or drops a ball but not for other players. Don't throw the food out of the fridge until you have better food to put in.
 
amazing80 said:
Smart teams also rework their top players deal especially when they can still produce good numbers. AJ may not be top 3, but he is still a very good player in this league. Just reduce his salary.
Click to expand...

If he's willing to take a hair cut to the tune of 5-7 mil a yr. I doubt that happens. You could get a young slot guy like Randall Cobb for 6-8 mil he would represent more of a future with the team. Devante Parker/Randall Cobb/Nuk looks like a great YOUNG WR corps to me. Speed at WR would be solved for the next 5-8 yrs.

How long do you think AJ is going to play? 3yrs? We will be revisiting this subject again next yr if AJ is unwilling to take a paycut.

Is AJ still a good WR? Yes, Is Cobb a better more versatile WR? Yes and he also can upgrade ST's as a KR/PR.

Once again, I'm for keeping AJ if he's willing to take a big WR2 paycut. The biggest problem on the Texans offense is a lack of speed at the WR position and AJ aint getting younger. The WR's cant win 1 on 1 outside. There are big plays to be made though outside the numbers.
 
Vance87 said:
I saw it happen. And going off of pure numbers, Hopkins is the #1.
Click to expand...

Don't know what you were seeing then. There were multiple times this year where Hopkins just ran freely on an underneath route and no one was in his vicinity. That never ever happened to Andre and if there was a statistic to prove it, I'm 100% sure it would back up the notion that Andre received #1 corners the majority of the time. I won't get into who's the better receiver but lets' not act like we saw things that didn't actually happen.
 
steelbtexan said:
If he's willing to take a hair cut to the tune of 5-7 mil a yr. I doubt that happens. You could get a young slot guy like Randall Cobb for 6-8 mil he would represent more of a future with the team. .
Click to expand...

Do you think the Packers let him go?
 
theNumber80 said:
Don't know what you were seeing then. There were multiple times this year where Hopkins just ran freely on an underneath route and no one was in his vicinity. That never ever happened to Andre and if there was a statistic to prove it, I'm 100% sure it would back up the notion that Andre received #1 corners the majority of the time. I won't get into who's the better receiver but lets' not act like we saw things that didn't actually happen.
Click to expand...

If we had a pro level QB... man!!

We could have two receivers with over 1200 yards.
 
If AJ comes back next year at $16 million the Texans front office is as clueless about managing the cap as I suspect they are. I think if AJ comes back at $6 million he should take it because I doubt any other team will pay him more. I also believe that we need a legit slot or a TE that can be effective in the passing game if we are going to take the next step and make the playoffs.
 
This thread makes me sad. AJ has been my favorite Texan forever...however his salary is above his production. Today Tom Brady redid his contract to help his team compete and re-sign guys. He's also a guy that's taken way less money than he's worth. Idk what the right answer is.
 
PapaL said:
This thread makes me sad. AJ has been my favorite Texan forever...however his salary is above his production.
Click to expand...

I don't see any reason to be sad. The Texans have said they want Andre back. Andre said he wants to be back. They've always been able to work it out, I don't see why this time should be any different.
 
thunderkyss said:
I appreciate you all taking the time. Relieved that there are no "we're better off without him" votes.
Click to expand...
There will be if the poll doesn't expire quickly, believe me. Not mine, but I can see their point. He's no longer a #1 receiver and his rate of decline will accelerate from here. We need to draft a potential replacement in 2015.
 
Thing is..is andre washed up? Sure he lost a step but I find it ironic that Case can find him but none of the others can.

You think brady or manning could hit andre (even at his age) with some passes?

Too me people would be talking about a veteran that knows how to get open and not any over the hill guy (just yet)
 
I think it bears repeating, Andre has $4.6M of prorated monies on his 2015 cap number, there's no way to get it off.

To get his cap number down to $6M he would have to take a $8.6M reduction in pay. & with that deep a cut, you're actually saving more than you would if you cut straight cut him.
 
thunderkyss said:
Do you think the Packers let him go?
Click to expand...

They just paid Nelson and drafted Adams. No way Thompson pays top $$$$ to both of his WR's. Now if Cobb isn't looking for 8-10 mil a yr then maybe Cobb stays with the Packers. Another thing to take into consideration is the cap going up could be a game changer.
 
thunderkyss said:
I don't see any reason to be sad. The Texans have said they want Andre back. Andre said he wants to be back. They've always been able to work it out, I don't see why this time should be any different.
Click to expand...


Because his career is coming to an end. That's why. It's not about money. It's not about loyalty.
 
I don't understand the attachment people get to these players to where they want them at all costs even if it hurts the team's chances to get better. That sounds pretty selfish to me and isn't fair to the rest of the team that is probably wanting to win. Especially the new coach. I was glad when Hakeem was gone on the Rockets, because he was way over paid in his last two years here. They waited a year to long actually. It didn't make a difference to me, because I knew that Hakeem was a Rocket for life and would retire here the same way that AJ will retire here. Players get old. It happens to all of them. It doesn't stop me from rooting for them on other teams either. I don't know what will happen with AJ, but I'd be very shocked if management doesn't force him to restructure his contract terms. I think he'll be testing the market personally, but could very well still end up here. Either way, I'll root for him here or wherever he goes. I want what is best for the Texans as a team though. Not what is best for one player.
 
steelbtexan said:
If he's willing to take a hair cut to the tune of 5-7 mil a yr. I doubt that happens. You could get a young slot guy like Randall Cobb for 6-8 mil he would represent more of a future with the team. Devante Parker/Randall Cobb/Nuk looks like a great YOUNG WR corps to me. Speed at WR would be solved for the next 5-8 yrs.

How long do you think AJ is going to play? 3yrs? We will be revisiting this subject again next yr if AJ is unwilling to take a paycut.

Is AJ still a good WR? Yes, Is Cobb a better more versatile WR? Yes and he also can upgrade ST's as a KR/PR.

Once again, I'm for keeping AJ if he's willing to take a big WR2 paycut. The biggest problem on the Texans offense is a lack of speed at the WR position and AJ aint getting younger. The WR's cant win 1 on 1 outside. There are big plays to be made though outside the numbers.
Click to expand...

Agree with bolded, however we can add the speed and retain AJ. He's still quality and we're not hurting for cap room. Add Davante Parker and move AJ to slot
 
JB said:
Agree with bolded, however we can add the speed and retain AJ. He's still quality and we're not hurting for cap room. Add Davante Parker and move AJ to slot
Click to expand...

We're not? Not trying to be a smart ass, but I'm not a capologist like some in here.

According to sportrac, we have about $9 mil in cap space for next season. I'd like to see us re-sign Mallet & KJ, at least, which will take more than 9mil just for them two. Then there's guys like Lewis, Manning, Dent, Pickett & Newton whom I'd like to see back as well.
 
JB said:
Agree with bolded, however we can add the speed and retain AJ. He's still quality and we're not hurting for cap room. Add Davante Parker and move AJ to slot
Click to expand...

Cap space for 2015 is not near as plentiful as some may think it is.
 
Andre is worth more to this team than i can describe, he is worth more to the Franchise than anyone else who has dressed in a Texans Uniform. Some things you can't put a price on !
 
TD said:
Pay him. He's worth more than just what he brings to the field....although that is still considerable.

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hakeem-olajuwon-toronto-raptors.jpg


mlb_a_ryan_600.jpg
Click to expand...

Well said, man.

And those three pictures are the Triad of Badass 34's in this city. I wish the Texans would retire no. 34 as an honor to this city's sports greats and a way to give back to Houston sports fans.

Texan_Bill said:
BTW, if this was AJ's last game as a Texan, what a way to go out. 10 receptions for like a buck 34 and a TD??!?!
Click to expand...

He'll be here in 2015. And A.J. will retire as a Houston Texan. All of this chatter is just fans and media doing what fans and media do, which is talk a lot about things they do not influence or control in any sort of way.

jaayteetx said:
Smart teams don't overpay for sentimental reasons. Do what it takes to win on the field, period. That's what the team is there to do, win.
Click to expand...

Smart teams also understand the intangible benefits of a HoF caliber player who is clearly a leader on the team, role model to everyone, and can still produce.

Just think of Ray Lewis in Baltimore. He was probably not worth his salary in pure football production, but what he gave the team and city is beyond measure.

Plus, how do you think a guy like J.J. Watt perceives this franchise if they kick one of their greatest players to the curb? This is big picture stuff that someone like Mr. McNair considers and understands.

PapaL said:
This thread makes me sad. AJ has been my favorite Texan forever...however his salary is above his production. Today Tom Brady redid his contract to help his team compete and re-sign guys. He's also a guy that's taken way less money than he's worth. Idk what the right answer is.
Click to expand...

It's the fickle nature of many modern fans. Immediate gratification culture clearly evident.

Fortunately, we have an owner that is above the capricious desires of fans and does what he thinks is best for the long term health of his franchise.

Texecutioner said:
I don't understand the attachment people get to these players....
Click to expand...

Honestly? You truly do not understand it?

EllisUnit said:
Andre is worth more to this team than i can describe, he is worth more to the Franchise than anyone else who has dressed in a Texans Uniform. Some things you can't put a price on !
Click to expand...

Yep. QFT. And Mr. McNair clearly feels the same way.
 
He is under contract so pay him. If he wants to help by restructuring great.

As long as he shows up as a leader and not the little ***** he was last off-season I hope he retires a Texan.
 
He wanted to be traded to a contender and everyone insisted they he stay and called him an ass for wanting to leave. Now you expect him to take a pay cut after forcing him to stay.

:spit:
 
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