drs23
Veteran
Playoffs do you, or anyone, have a link to a video of the town hall meeting? I searched the mothership and came up lame.
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Clowney, then what?
- Thread starter thunderkyss
- Start date
Playoffs do you, or anyone, have a link to a video of the town hall meeting? I searched the mothership and came up lame.
I will trust Bruschi's eval over yours because he knows the type of guy RC wants. Your opinion is valid though. BTW, I still like Robinson.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Playoffs do you, or anyone, have a link to a video of the town hall meeting? I searched the mothership and came up lame.
Have not found full recording of it yet. I expect it will pop up on HT.com, but delayed a bit. If it doesn't show up after a few weeks I'll start asking around to see if I can get a copy.
From Clowney's post pro day presser: http://www.jaguars.com/media-galler..._Clowney/71a1bf6e-45c9-434e-9e84-6ef09307afd4
kingtexan
All Pro
Sad to think a city would pass on talent because of a last name.
To each his own I guess.
Not the last name.
1 Roger Carr experience is enough to last for a lifetime.
I want a QB that football comes 1st.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
That's an interesting call. If we were looking at a drop from one of them (or even Bridgewater) to around #20 then you would have to consider it if you thought they were better than the guy at #33.
I'd say "maybe". I'd make enquiries. I might try to put the other pick off a year but I bet in this draft they wouldn't want to do that.
TexansFTW
Veteran
You'd probably need to read the guy I quoted I guess (read his full entry, I chopped it up just to quote it). I re-read it again and feel I wrote my point out correctly.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Your support is much appreciated! Thanks!
PapaL
Loose Screw
I never called you stupid. Sounding stupid and being stupid are two different things. If you can't tell the two apart then you definitely fall into one group.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Bingo. It's not the name, it's the family traits.
Plus, yes the fan tolerance is going to be zilch.
Texian
Hall of Fame
After studying the Blake Bortles vs Jadevon Clowney game, I look at it this way. IIRC Clowney had Bortles in his cross hairs with a straight shot, Locked and Loaded about 4 different times if IIRC. Bortles was able side step or out maneuver Clowney each time. So I ask, is Bortles that good in the pocket and avoiding pressure or is Clowney a one trick pony? You be the judge:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYd29xlmc04
No I wouldn't make a Julio trade . The reason Atlanta is still is suffering today is because of giving up so much for Julio. Five picks is just to many and why give up any picks at all when you don't have to. I am also of the opinion that Jeremiah Attaochu could be a better NFL player than Clowney. Giving up 5 picks for a WR was absurd.
I would not be opposed to giving up 2.1 and 4.1 to move up to 1.26 to select JEREMIAH ATTAOCHU or DONTE' MONCRIEF for that matter.
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leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
That's cool and I respect bruschi,but you can also look at RAC history of lbs from lt and banks to houston and Hali. In between he had wimberely who had a double digit sack season as a rookie and fel off after that. All in all, its gonna be O'Brien/Rick Smith pick not RAC pick. For all we know a qb could be the highest rated player and they feel great about ford,smith,murphy,or attachou at top of 2nd. I maintain my stance,as long as the guy is of probowl caliber,they got it right. For all the holes on indy's team, they've won 11 games 2 yrs in a row. If they stop spending dumb money, they can be even better. Think about ravens before flacco and falcons before ryan. No one is saying either are great qbs. I remember ravens having great defenses missing the playoffs before flacco. Even with brees in division and a miserable season,the falcons have won more games since 08 than any team in that division.
How many play off games did Atlanta win before they drafted Julio Jones?
Hervoyel
BUENO!
I'd tell you that anyone who takes anything I say on this subject as fact is a fool. I'm a fan. I don't do mock drafts, nobody pays me for my opinion, and I am frequently wrong. If I sound as though I think this is a fact then that is merely because it is the way I see this and I feel strongly about it. That's really all. Everyone on here is voicing an opinion and they're all making their case for why their particular opinion is probably right. I'm no different.
Don't get so wound up about it. You don't know a ****ing thing and neither do I. I understand that. Do you?
Dan B.
Hall of Fame
I think Atlanta should be our trade target. They could use Clowney in the worst way, he's from the region so it might help with bringing Gamecock fans from the Panthers over to the Falcons, and they have a history of doing this. If we could end up with 13 picks or so I'd be ecstatic.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Good post, Herv. +Rep.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
Spectacular post! I really don't get how more posters don't see it like this.
Like you said, I have never seen a guy raved about like Clowney that people have had to make this many excuses for. As the article I posted yesterday said, Clowney has no pass rush moves except what they call his slap and arm-over move.
I am no draft expert. I am not claiming that I am. But I just can't imagine drafting a guy a 1.1 that had 3 sacks as a pass rushing defensive end. It just seems silly to me. Clowney is nearly every bit the project that Johnny Manziel is. The only thing with Johnny is there are ZERO questions regarding his heart. Talk about character concerns all you want (which I still find ridiculous) but there is not one objective person that has ever watched him, played against him, or played with him that would ever question his heart. Can the same be said about Clowney? No.
Uh... Clowney is 6'6"
Trading up from 6 to 1 would probably cost more than two extra picks I would think. I'm all for trading back though, it needs to happen.
TexansFTW
Veteran
Maybe you don't get it bro....
I'm no expert.... but Clowney is the greatest athlete to ever enter the NFL draft and there will never be anyone else like him. No one is comparable to him. He doesn't need swim moves or bend cause he doesn't need them to still be the greatest ever. Have you seen that hit he put on the Michigan RB in 2012? 2013 didn't count dude, double teams, playing not to get hurt, schemed against, sad cause Lattimore broke his leg, not his fault, sick, ramble ramble. Since we don't need to spend #1 on a RT or another WR and all the QBs suck by default you take the guy who will be all pro for the next 12 years.
I hope you were taking notes son, you just got schooled.
michaelm
vox nihili
The thing is, every top prospect has warts. Some maybe more than Clowney, some less. Every one of them gets their fair share of defenders glossing over their weak points and pumping up their strong points.
Maybe Clowney has more excuses made for his weak points than others, maybe not. It's really hard to quantify since none of us have access to the same excuse-o-meter that y'all are using to validate your opinions.
Texian
Hall of Fame
and as a result of their win NOW at all cost strategy, what # draft pick do they've today?
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
Huh? I said "heart" not "height." Did I miss something?
Classic! Rep to you!
As far as "interviews" go, Clowney's was as strong as anyone else. I think the key is that his was not scripted. He had to follow instructions from pro coaches and did not know what he was going to be asked to do before his pro day. And just about everyone came away convinced that the "heart question" has been resolved and is now a non-issue.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
It's funny how pro days and interviews don't convince anyone of anything in regards to Manziel. But somehow with Clowney, it addresses all of the concerns.
It's funny how pro days and interviews don't convince anyone of anything in regards to Manziel. But somehow with Clowney, it addresses all of the concerns.
It's a lot harder to pick up tennis balls on the run after jumping over bags than it is to run around a broom. Just sayin.
bOODRO87
Time Consumer
If there's no trade, I would be very surprised if Clowney wasn't the pick. Antonio was let to walk. JJ can't do it by himself. I really think Houston would be the best organization for Clowney to be drafted to. The class and work ethic from O'Brien and Watt would have to rub off on him. Clowney probably wouldn't feel like the spotlight was solely on him. The defense would be immediately upgraded and gives OB more possessions with the ball (Does anyone else love the idea of OB calling the plays? Balls. He has them.)
It just makes too much sense for me.
It just makes too much sense for me.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I', sure Josenna Clowney, Jadeven's mother, is probably cheering those millions of fans out there fixing to knock those Doritos off Manziel's shoulder...........she'll enjoy her work that much more..............she's a processing technician at the Frito-Lay plant in nearby Charlotte............she helps make Doritos.
It's funny how pro days and interviews don't convince anyone of anything in regards to Manziel. But somehow with Clowney, it addresses all of the concerns.
Judging by the analysts on NFLN, they both convinced people on their pro days.
It's a lot harder to hit a receiver in stride 40 yards downfield while rolling out than it is to jump over bags....even picking up balls as you run afterward. Just sayin.
It's a lot harder to hit a receiver in stride 40 yards downfield while rolling out than it is to jump over bags....even picking up balls as you run afterward. Just sayin.
I just wish Clowney would of came out with his helmet and shoulder pads on. Then there would be no question who should go number one.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
I'm cool with that, as long as people are consistent. I won't name names, but there have been those on the board that ranted against using pro days and interviews to justify drafting a player, but then claim Clowney's pro day sealed the deal. Just remain consistent.
As for me, yes Clowney had a good pro day and good interviews. He said all the right things. But when I look at the stats and the tape, I see an athletic freak that commits to the bull rush or the speed rush but really has no counter moves when the offensive line adjusts.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I heard Bob Polian talking about Pro Days yesterday on Sirius XM.
He said, for scouts and GMs, Pro Days mean almost nothing. They've already seen most of these guys in person and already have solid opinions formed.
But for coaches, the Pro Day is a chance to see the person up close for the first time. And for coaches, this can help them make up their minds about guys.
Now, for the Media and for fans... yeah. The pro days can mean something for their opinion of the players. But. Their opinion means nothing.
I personally feel better about Clowney after his pro-day and although I thought Bridgewater was the #1 QB after the season, seeing him perform that poorly on his pro-day has raised doubts for me.
OTOH, Manziel's pro-day didn't really move me either way. I wasn't comfortable with him before his pro-day and I'm not comfy with him after it. I don't expect him to be a consistently good QB. I expect him to be a highlight reel guy who costs his team more games than he wins for them. I don't expect his game to translate to the NFL. I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just saying that's what I expect and why, if it was up to me, I wouldn't draft him in the first round.
It's a lot harder to hit a receiver in stride 40 yards downfield while rolling out than it is to jump over bags....even picking up balls as you run afterward. Just sayin.
Should count the number of times the receivers had to slow down to wait on Manziel's throw.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Watching that jumping over bags sprinting out to pick up tennis balls drill I really question that no one has ever jumped 7 bags and grabbed both tennis balls? Maybe I'm just off base, but that didn't look like an Olympic feat to me? How long have they been testing that way? JJ Watt couldn't do it?
How will they look after drafting this yr should be the question. If they draft well then the Jones trade and bad yr this yr will serve them well as they move into the future.
The Falcons could be loaded with young talent for yrs to come.
I don't care about pro-days, until someone stinks it up. Especially if they skipped the work-out portion of the combine. Because, this is it. This is what you've been working on since the season ended. You decided that this was going to be your opportunity to show the NFL what you can do. You wrote the script, you picked the venue, everything about it was set up to help you look your best.
I didn't watch all of Johnny's Pro Day & I probably won't watch all of Clowney's the reactions were where they needed to be for a #1 overall selection (even though I don't think anyone would pick Manziel with the #1 overall).
I did watch Teddy's, because I wanted to see if it matched the reaction.
I see someone that is consistently run past the qb, ala MW
IF you're referring to me, I was just having fun with it. The reason why "interview" was put in quotes in my previous post.
You were actually the one that put the interview idea in my head in the Manziel thread. You made a case for it. Perhaps the "Just remain consistent" mantra is something you should try to follow, since it's your advice and all.
I don't try to claim how much teams value pro days. I can only refer to the analysts that talk about it, and most of them say it is a small piece of the puzzle. Of course, after a good pro day, they rave about it. Go figure.
And I'm not a talent evaluator. I don't play one on the internet. I cannot claim what is in a dude's heart. So much of the things I hear from fans are the EXACT SAME THINGS I hear from the media. Isn't that interesting? Think the media analysts get their opinions from fans? Or maybe it's the other way around.
Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round. If all these wannabe experts and analysts had a clue about evaluating and predicting the future, he would have been a 1.1 draft pick. We can go the other way with 1.1 picks that busted out.
Nobody really has this down to a science. The difference between me and others is that I don't claim to have any kind of insight or expertise into evaluations. I'm just a fan. And that's all I will ever be. I will root for Manziel or Clowney if either end up in a Texans uniform.
<----this logo is what matters to me.
Good post! +rep
michaelm
vox nihili
I think you should name names, because, other than that it seems like you're generalizing, TBH.
michaelm
vox nihili
Pro days have some value if the players are asked to show their abilities doing things they didn't do in games, like drop back in coverage in Clowney's case, or in the case of QBs, take snaps from under center if he didn't do that in college.
bhsman
Rookie
The test, IIRC, is supposed to test your balance and explosion. Not only did Clowney leap over 7 bags, but he grabbed the tennis balls with no issue compared to the other guy who jumped over 5-6 and couldn't grab both balls.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
And you believe that?
I didn't watch, but I heard it was three coaches from three different teams. None of it with the coaches was scripted. But I think it's that way with all defensive players.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
That's a good post. You summed it all up very well. Thanks for the info on what Polian said as well.
Wasn't referring to you. I really haven't seen you comment very much in either the Manziel or the Clowney thread.
I'm not? Could you show me where I didn't follow that mantra? I said Clowney had a good pro day and did interview well. Does that matter? Yes. What I can't get over is his piss poor showing this last season. 3 sacks from a pass rushing DE is inexcusable. He shows hardly any pass rush moves and when offenses started figuring him out, he was basically neutralized. His sheer athletic ability allowed him to make a couple of highlight plays a game, but his athleticism won't do jack **** for him in the NFL.
I agree.
I agree again.
I'll probably always root for this franchise. But to be quite honest, I'm tired of the boring, same old **** from this organization. We are vanilla. Frankly, I'm getting tired of the flavour vanilla. You are more than welcome to keep on lapping up whatever this franchise serves you, but I quit purchasing season tickets, didn't go to a single game last year because I saw the collapse coming after the first or second game, and am tired of watching this organization make changes at a snails pace.
For good or bad, drafting Johnny Manziel most definitely makes a statement for this franchise. It shows we are willing to swing for the fences, that we are ready for an exciting brand of football, and that we are ready to take advantage of the rule changes in this league and develop a high-powered offense that can put points on anyone. Drafting Clowney probably does much the same thing Mario Williams did for us: a few 8-8 seasons, a playoff appearance, and then he bolts for a stupid contract with a crap franchise.
There are no guarantees in the NFL. But this is a QB driven league. If you are counting on getting the next guarantee at QB, you are going to be waiting a LONG time, because those guys only come along about every 15 years. If you are counting on striking it lucky with a middle to late round pick at QB, you also might be waiting a long time. At some point, you have to take a chance. I firmly believe Manziel is worth gambling on.