Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Positives from Polian...
Mark Berman ‏@MarkBermanFox26
Aaron Rodgers ‏@AaronRodgers12
Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
Manziel
- Thread starter Wolf
- Start date
- Status
Mark Berman ‏@MarkBermanFox26
Aaron Rodgers ‏@AaronRodgers12
FirstTexansFan
The Unknown Fan
For the Dallas vs Houston comments, bring your butts to San Antonio in Texans gear... I'm confronted at least once a week here by rabid ********* Sowboy fans. I agree, those fans in Dallas, not a peep, but those aren't the ones we Houstonian's detest, it's those perps that live IN Houston and San Antonio that come across as the true douches of the world. Now, forgive me I'm studying for my "rouge scholarship" at this time, and don't have time to deal with you genius's 
Trap_Star
SiteContributor
Can someone elaborate on what exactly Aaron is referring to?
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Todd McShay and somebody else on ESPN or NFLN during Manziel's Johnny Day.
Trap_Star
SiteContributor
Oh yeah? They were discrediting JFF?
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Matt Hasselback: "Manziel's inside the pocket film is that of a 6th or 7th rounder."
Not good or bad, just 2014 McShay NFL expert Scout.
McShay was talking about footwork trying to appear more knowledgeable than he actually is.
Not good or bad, just 2014 McShay NFL expert Scout.
Stemp
Brew Master
Matt just needs to look in the mirror to see what a 6th rounder looks like.
I'm just sayin...
GuerillaBlack
Hall of Fame
Definitely a general sense. and my friends up there were always like "why do you like Houston, its so dirty and weird". It's funny tho. now that we are older and they visit, Houston is the **** compared to the pristine plannedness of DFW. Btw, those petrochemical plants, largest complex in the nation, is the heart of this states economy.
I think its very sloppy to only show negative plays like he did when making that comment. There are tons of positive plays with Manziel playing within the pocket. He has a point on things he needs to clean up, but every QB entering the draft has things they need to get better at.
Jaws honestly has been the most subjective throughout the process. Johnny has to improve his mechanics at the next level.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
You can't be serious. That was your hangup? He didn't say he was gonna be a good boy and dedicate himself to the NFL before today?
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
Good post. Just finished listening to what he had to say to the NFL Network crew as well as ESPN. Definitely agree with you. Main thing that I liked seeing with him out on the field though was his footwork and arm strength. Those were two big question marks with him, and he definitely showed plenty of arm and some significant improvement in his footwork. Combine all that with his leadership abilities and his competitive nature, and this is a guy with All-Pro potential.
Every NFL player is a gamble. I forget who said it this morning on ESPN but if you are waiting for the next Peyton Manning, you are going to be waiting a LONG time. Those guys only come along once every 15 or so years and to our frustration, the Colts got that guy not once but twice. In this league, you have to take some risks, and Manziel has done everything he possibly can to prove he is worth the risk.
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
Manziel can handle the cameras. That's a big thing. Y'all are going to point out the Manning Academy incident, but look since then - nothing. Not a peep. The thing that convinced me that Manziel can handle the spotlight is when after the Duke game, during the elation of winning, when he was asked whether or not he was going to leave for the NFL, he answered: "I can't even think about that right now, I'm just so happy to win for me and my teammates" or something to that effect. Dude is diplomatic 24/7. He knows the right thing to say and when to say it. And yeah, there'll be a circus following him wherever he goes.
But notice how he handles the circus. He doesn't lose his cool in public. No "Kanye attack the paparazzi" moments. No imbecilic comments. Manziel has, I think, learned from the Heisman offseason. He knows he's under scrutiny and after Autograph-gate he's been careful to not land himself in hot water. I think he's learned from that experience. The most compelling proof of that is the silence from the end of the Rice game to today.
I'm not saying Manziel is a saint. For all I know he could be a raging douche. The point is, however, he has learned to present a better face of him to the public. He tries to characterize himself as a person of intensity, competitiveness, aggressiveness, etc. If he can handle the circus as he has since the beginning of the college football season, I think his chances of being successful increase quite a bit.
But notice how he handles the circus. He doesn't lose his cool in public. No "Kanye attack the paparazzi" moments. No imbecilic comments. Manziel has, I think, learned from the Heisman offseason. He knows he's under scrutiny and after Autograph-gate he's been careful to not land himself in hot water. I think he's learned from that experience. The most compelling proof of that is the silence from the end of the Rice game to today.
I'm not saying Manziel is a saint. For all I know he could be a raging douche. The point is, however, he has learned to present a better face of him to the public. He tries to characterize himself as a person of intensity, competitiveness, aggressiveness, etc. If he can handle the circus as he has since the beginning of the college football season, I think his chances of being successful increase quite a bit.
corytx8
Rookie
And what about those two games should change your opinion of two years worth of other games? Don't let a two bad games change an opinion you developed over watching 2 years of game tape.
And don't give me that crap about taking the run away from him makes him worthless. Like thats all he can do. When threw from the pocket, he completed 73.6% of his passes for 3,429 yards and 27 TD's. That's as a red shirt sophomore playing in the SEC. Not to mention he had ZERO help on the other side of the ball.
All in all for his career he put up outstanding numbers under those conditions. 20 and 6 W-L, 7820 pass yds, 63 - 22 TD-INT, 2169 yds rushing with 30 rushing TD's.
Let's not pretend these workouts are meaningless. They are to validate the film. To show that they can make all the throws. Obviously Game tape is more important but good QB's very rarely if ever do bad in them. He did really well and even went out of his way to make it harder on himself. Give him some credit for that.
BigB0iFresh
Waterboy
Porky
Hall of Fame
I've not been JM's biggest fan - in terms of the Texans drafting him. GREAT college QB, but the dumpster at the back of the NFL's hotel is littered with the remains of great college QB's that did squat in the NFL. Vince Young to Ryan Leaf and a million in between.
He is still in my mind a definite high risk/high reward guy, but today went a long way for me in answering at least some of the questions I had. Better arm strength then I imagined and liked his deep accuracy. Heard good things about footwork and his overall demeanor was good. Think it was a fantastic move on his part to go with helmet/pads, shows he is up for a challenge.
All these guys are a gamble, but Bridgewater in my mind is the safest but the lowest ceiling, Bortles has all the things you look for physically, but he hasn't proven anything against top competition and his accuracy is in question, and then you have Manziel.
He's a wildcard in my mind. He could be out of the NFL in 3 years, or he could completely revolutionize the game and be the toast of the town.
My big concerns continue to be:
Durability/injury concerns if he tries to play like he did in college and if he tries to become more pocket oriented, is the magic gone and he becomes an smallish short guy that has trouble with batted passes and vision? He isn't going to get any taller.
That is my biggest concern.
Secondarily, he talked a good game today, but once he gets paid his millions will he remain dedicated to being the best, watching film and basically being Payton Manning or will he blow it ala VY? There are going to be a TON of "hanger's on'ers" around this guy and he needs to have someone with him that keeps him grounded. He's got a reputation, and he needs to change it.
Will his ego become a problem? Is it already a problem? Is he going to blend with the rest of the team like OB wants, or will he be a prima donna and create tension/drama and/or distraction/division in the locker room.
He's got the most upside of anyone in this draft class. He also has the greatest downside imo (ie greatest risk).
It's a real gamble, but if nothing else, he would add a ton of interest and excitement to a team that was led by the 7 dwarfs last year with Schaub being somewhere between Grumpy and Dopey. I'm with them either way as I am really torn but what the hell - YOLO.
He is still in my mind a definite high risk/high reward guy, but today went a long way for me in answering at least some of the questions I had. Better arm strength then I imagined and liked his deep accuracy. Heard good things about footwork and his overall demeanor was good. Think it was a fantastic move on his part to go with helmet/pads, shows he is up for a challenge.
All these guys are a gamble, but Bridgewater in my mind is the safest but the lowest ceiling, Bortles has all the things you look for physically, but he hasn't proven anything against top competition and his accuracy is in question, and then you have Manziel.
He's a wildcard in my mind. He could be out of the NFL in 3 years, or he could completely revolutionize the game and be the toast of the town.
My big concerns continue to be:
Durability/injury concerns if he tries to play like he did in college and if he tries to become more pocket oriented, is the magic gone and he becomes an smallish short guy that has trouble with batted passes and vision? He isn't going to get any taller.
That is my biggest concern.
Secondarily, he talked a good game today, but once he gets paid his millions will he remain dedicated to being the best, watching film and basically being Payton Manning or will he blow it ala VY? There are going to be a TON of "hanger's on'ers" around this guy and he needs to have someone with him that keeps him grounded. He's got a reputation, and he needs to change it.
Will his ego become a problem? Is it already a problem? Is he going to blend with the rest of the team like OB wants, or will he be a prima donna and create tension/drama and/or distraction/division in the locker room.
He's got the most upside of anyone in this draft class. He also has the greatest downside imo (ie greatest risk).
It's a real gamble, but if nothing else, he would add a ton of interest and excitement to a team that was led by the 7 dwarfs last year with Schaub being somewhere between Grumpy and Dopey. I'm with them either way as I am really torn but what the hell - YOLO.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
They are meaningless and prove 0 in terms of football. Anyone can't throw outs vs air or post routes vs air,but can you anticipate the coverage vs the window and throw the ball? I'm sure case keenum and matt schaub can throw a 15 yd out to any wr vs air, but can you throw it on time,from the pocket to the proper shoulder? Post routes are the easiest routes to throw. The problem occurs when the post route is thrown late. I don't think a person on this board will question a post,fly,slant or even in cut with clean lanes and pockets,the question is,can you throw those inside the chaos of the pocket on time?
As stated before, pro days,from talking to phil savage and pat kirwan at the senior bowl mean 0 really. This is not me the armchair gm speaking,this is from guys who used to do it for a living. This pro day or any other pro day doesn't change the process of what obrie and smith see on tape. As stated before,the most important thing,90% of it is game tape and personal interview/workout. The ability to understand route concepts and engulf information and execute it. That's what will or will not get manziel,TB,Bortles,Carr,or whomever the texans decide to draft.
BigBull
Rookie
I don't want the Texans to draft JF because I don't like his height, but to say he heaved the balls up sounds like you didn't watch his pro day. All of his passes look like they were on a rope and the velocity was great.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
You were asked for your opinion because it's known you would fart out some asinine "opinions" in a heartbeat about anything Manziel. You're seriously clutching at straws to try to prove some point about his work eric when he pretty effectively proved to not be a distraction this past season.
GuerillaBlack
Hall of Fame
Come on now, really?
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
You are really reaching for straws here. Those 2 games were a part of the two year evaluation.
His 20-6 record is impressive, however let's look at it more closely...
Record against top 25 teams = 4-6
Against the rest = 16-0
His stats were impressive as well, however let's look at it more closely...
TD:INT against top 25 defenses (7 games) = 17 TD's / 11 INT's
Against the rest (19 games) = 46 TD's / 11 INT's
Rushing against top 25 defenses (7 games) = 389 yards & 1 TD
Against the rest (19 games) = 1780 yards & 29 TD's
I never said that workouts were meaningless. I said that if you already had a 2-year evaluation on a guy then don't change it because of a 2-hour workout. I also gave him credit for the workout while still acknowledging that it was just a workout.
I watched it all. Some were lacking velocity, the throws over the middle basically. His arm dipped on some as well.
Stemp
Brew Master
a "heave" :
I know this really doesn't pertain to Manziel but Mike Evans looked like the real freakin deal too.
For the haters, any pass 30+ yard downfield, even when he hits the receiver in stride is a "heave"
I doubt you'll meet any of those guys while you're in Texas. You're either an A&M fan or a UT fan....
but they're jocking him in New York, LA, Chicago..... that's why ESPN was at his Pro Day. I normally don't listen to ESPN during the day, because most of it is not local... but guess what they were talking about all day.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Today was absolutely one of the BEST NATIONAL commercials for Texas A&M, EVER.
Its not just what he said , its how he said it and how he handled the circus that the media made out of the situation ....
Then you look at the improvements he's made since the end of the first season to the end of this one - I think that proves what he has said , that he has dedicated himself to getting better , to being a professional.
We have also heard Zero drama since the season started .... Not a peep out of him.
Is he a wildcard ?! Yes , but the truth of the matter is that of all the QB's in this draft , he has the highest upside. The others simply cant make the type of plays he does on a routine basis.
If this franchise is shooting for the stars rather than settling for the mediocrity of the past decade , Manziel should be the choice based upon that highest upside.
markn
All Pro
The media? I think Manziel has created the frenzy without help from the media, they're just recording the show. The media didn't make him wear camo, throw to rap music and invite his celebrity buddies along.
That said, he did handle it well.
It is a heave. Look at the position of his feet when he launches it. Also, in a live game situation, that is a pick. He tends to not step into his throws, or up into the pocket.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Raiders for me. JFF in silver & black making it rain.
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
Maybe...
But I look at it as a job interview.
Should someone who is looking to hire you (for a multimillion dollar position, mind you) ignore the interview results (combine and pro days) and only hire you based on your transcript (college stats, film, etc.)??
Only? I think he said the "smallest" factor. Look, if you don't have the transcripts, you're not getting the interview in the first place. The transcripts are the work. The interview is talking about the work. The most important part is finding a guy who can do the work. If all things are equal, you look for the guy that fits the organization the best. But you never take a guy who can talk about work over a guy who can do the work.
bckey
All Pro
Good post Porky and it pretty much sums up where I'm at on Johnny football.
I consider myself pretty knowledgeable on football stuff. I don't like the way manziel throws of his back foot, runs when he doesn't need to, doesn't slide in the pocket, doesn't appear to use his eyes, looks like he's making one read then goes into back yard football mode...durability...ect...
But the guy delivers. He makes plays. He brings passion and energy and he seems to have a thirst for greatness. I can't ignore the positives or negatives.
Manziel isn't a finished product. None of these guys are. I really like many of these players. I might be one of the few that would be ok with the three qb's or clowney or Mack and I'd be ok with the outside chance we take Robinson.
So I'm fine with a trade down to 4.
Or just taking our guy at 1. I'm excited about this pick because either way I think we're getting a good, possibly great player. I prefer tb over all. But I will be pumped when we get our guy regardless.
This will be an exciting draft.
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
So Cliffs Notes is that he looked good but the same concerns remain and we basically learned nothing?
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
That tends to be the theme of pro days. The more important event today was the private meeting which we know nothing about. The pro-day we all saw was really all just free publicity for Texas A&M.
Number19
Hall of Fame
No! Manziel took snaps from under center. Two things, at a minimum, was learned: 1) His footwork and mechanics was observed, and 2) coaches were able to discern how coachable he is in perfecting his mechanics for the next level.
:kubepalm:
Texian
Hall of Fame
Those who don't like Johnny Manziel will still find reasons not to like him. I doubt that there is much of anything that Manziel could've done today to change their minds.
Number19
Hall of Fame
The music is a negative, because of the audience (owners, GM's & coaches); the pads are a positive because you play in pads.what about throwing in pads to rap music on his pro-day something never done before on such a national stage? those who don't like that, move along, those who do, jump aboard
BullNation4Life
All Pro
If a GM takes into consideration the type of music a prospect plays at his pro day to not take him, they need to stop being a GM...
If he can play and make the throws and reads, take him. If he can't pass on him and hope he doesn't burn you in the long run..
- Status