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Manziel

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disaacks3 said:
Funny, I've heard garbage since the Texans inception. Considering half my family is still there and they represent part of the incessant stream, it's assuredly NOT one-way.

I'll give you 70/30 or so though.
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I will concede a bit of hyperbole but observe Texans fans came out of the gate with a 5 year case of blue balls and a few decades of pent up frustration which was released in a 19-10 emission resulting in pregnant expectations.
 
mussop said:
You already knew all you needed to know. Your mind was made up before this started.
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Ironic comment.

That's not a shot at you btw. I think it was Texian who pretty much said that same thing this morning. It's true among all of you, not just Mr.White.
 
Manziel on Gruden's QB Camp tonight on ESPN... coincidence? I think not.

Albert Breer ‏@AlbertBreer
The Texans and Jaguars will meet privately with Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel this afternoon.

The Bears and Browns were the two teams not in attendance here at #JohnnyFest
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mussop said:
So you're labeling him with poor work ethic because of a QB camp that meant nothing but you don't put stock into pro days? And you're labeling him with poor work ethic because you haven't heard he was a cerebral QB or that he doesn't watch film?

You should say these things out loud to hear how stupid they sound before you hit submit. You're making yourself look foolish.
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What's foolish is walking out of that camp at all. Can't be that hard. How many other QB's have done it?
 
infantrycak said:
I grew up there. Care to fill me in because his comment is spot on. It is a one way rivalry.
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disaacks3 said:
Funny, I've heard garbage since the Texans inception. Considering half my family is still there and they represent part of the incessant stream, it's assuredly NOT one-way.

I'll give you 70/30 or so though.
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BigBull said:
All of my uncles and cousins on my mother's side live in the Dallas area and growing up all ever heard was their bs about the Cowboys. So, in my experience it came from them first.
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infantrycak said:
I will concede a bit of hyperbole but observe Texans fans came out of the gate with a 5 year case of blue balls and a few decades of pent up frustration which was released in a 19-10 emission resulting in pregnant expectations.
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The Houston/Dallas thing has always seemed very similar to A&M/Texas to me.

We're A&M in that scenario, fortunately and unfortunately.

Dallas has a superiority complex that, at this point, is no longer deserved. And Houston has an embarrassing inferiority complex.
 
Mr. White said:
What's foolish is walking out of that camp at all. Can't be that hard. How many other QB's have done it?
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So basically we have stripped your argument down to him leaving or getting asked to leave a QB camp. Thought so! It was a camp. He wasn't required to be there. Who cares? Sorry not trying to dog on you. Just tired of hearing this same crap over and over when it has no validity.
 
The best thing about the hoopla surround this pro-day is that it may increase the chances of some foolish GM giving up the house to trade up for him.
 
bah007 said:
The Houston/Dallas thing has always seemed very similar to A&M/Texas to me.

We're A&M in that scenario, fortunately and unfortunately.

Dallas has a superiority complex that, at this point, is no longer deserved. And Houston has an embarrassing inferiority complex.
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As someone currently living in DFW and with most of my family near or in Houston, i find this analogy pretty accurate.
 
I recall the first time I ever attended a Texans game at Reliant. My friends and I were walking up to the ticketing gate, and a guy in front of us had a custom made Texans jersey with the words "DUCK FALLAS" across the back. It was even more funny/sad that he was holding his 5 year old daughters' hand while walking up to the gate. I really wish I had snapped a picture of it, it was gold. We all got a good laugh out of it.

If anyone ever spots a "HUCK FOUSTON" Dallas jersey, please let me know. Otherwise, the hate is generally one-way.
 
BigBull said:
All of my uncles and cousins on my mother's side live in the Dallas area and growing up all ever heard was their bs about the Cowboys. So, in my experience it came from them first.
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Why would it be otherwise? They talk about their team and they had a lot of achievement on their side at the time. 21 years without a losing season followed by a brief hiatus and then 3 SB wins is something to talk about.

How many Cowboys fans do you hear say "I root for anyone playing the Oilers/Texans." Virtually none. But it is a common refrain for Houston fans to say they root for anyone playing the Cowboys.

bah007 said:
The Houston/Dallas thing has always seemed very similar to A&M/Texas to me.

We're A&M in that scenario, fortunately and unfortunately.

Dallas has a superiority complex that, at this point, is no longer deserved. And Houston has an embarrassing inferiority complex.
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I think that is a fair assessment.
 
bah007 said:
The Houston/Dallas thing has always seemed very similar to A&M/Texas to me.

We're A&M in that scenario, fortunately and unfortunately.

Dallas has a superiority complex that, at this point, is no longer deserved. And Houston has an embarrassing inferiority complex.
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Much as I hate to say it, that's probably a very accurate analogy.
 
Mr. White said:
Hype
Celebrity friends - Cause NFL players don't have this
Questionable work ethic Not on the field
Fanatical followers Obviously not since half the Aggie fans didn't like his cocky attitude during the off season.

Seriously.
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You're reaching like, a lot.
 
bah007 said:
The Houston/Dallas thing has always seemed very similar to A&M/Texas to me.

We're A&M in that scenario, fortunately and unfortunately.

Dallas has a superiority complex that, at this point, is no longer deserved. And Houston has an embarrassing inferiority complex.
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Well to be fair an Aggie was the face of the Texans for 8 yrs. So the current state of the Texans (Personnel issues and their inferiority complex should be expected.)
 
mussop said:
So you're labeling him with poor work ethic because of a QB camp that meant nothing but you don't put stock into pro days? And you're labeling him with poor work ethic because you haven't heard he was a cerebral QB or that he doesn't watch film?
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Look, first I don't even want a QB drafted in the first so I'm not playing in the Bortles v. Bridgewater v. Manziel squabble.

However, if you're politicking for the number ONE spot in this year's draft, EVERY football move you make MEANS SOMETHING.

You are invited to go to a very respected football camp to learn how the pros do things and then you can't show up at the appointed time. Then you compound that by lying about it to everyone by throwing your roomie under the bus by claiming "he didn't wake me up".

Yeah... it matters when you screw the pooch on so many different levels. He may be a notch above VY but his behavior sure is giving off some serious Ryan Leaf vibes.
 
b0ng said:
You're reaching like, a lot.
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If there's a reach here, then it's in the spin job you're attempting. Dude asked for my opinion on why I see similarities between him in 2014 and VY in 2006 and I gave it.

Funny how I don't remember anyone that's arguing this point even being in the forum back then.
 
Bill Polian's Manziel concerns...
1. He's not going to get appreciably taller,

2. His release point is 3/4s so he won't be releasing it like he's 6'1 1/2" or 6'2"... and defenses will play to that with mush rush and getting their hands up so you're going to have to create a firm front 3 (G-C-G), no inside rush.

3. He's a runner, he has magic outside of the pocket and that will translate into injury so you'd better plan for that because it'll happen
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ESPN
 
Gotta give Manziel's crew credit for putting on a big-time dog-and-pony show. But I dunno about the xPrez and XFirst Lady being there with the uneditied version of rap music with all of the all the MFs and folks, etc. That wasn't a cool touch.
 
ObsiWan said:
Look, first I don't even want a QB drafted in the first so I'm not playing in the Bortles v. Bridgewater v. Manziel squabble.

However, if you're politicking for the number ONE spot in this year's draft, EVERY football move you make MEANS SOMETHING.

You are invited to go to a very respected football camp to learn how the pros do things and then you can't show up at the appointed time. Then you compound that by lying about it to everyone by throwing your roomie under the bus by claiming "he didn't wake me up".

Yeah... it matters when you screw the pooch on so many different levels. He may be a notch above VY but his behavior sure is giving off some serious Ryan Leaf vibes.
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Not sure where you got that he put it on someone else. He did the opposite of what you are stating. I also believe the camp was not about how pros do things. He was a counselor/college coach. He wasn't there to learn but to teach but that's irrelevant. You make a committment you follow through. Main point is he didn't blame McCarron for waking him.

Manziel said Wednesday the only reason he left camp was because he slept in late and missed a meeting -- nothing more, nothing less. He apologized privately to camp officials for being unable to fulfill his commitment.
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On Wednesday, Manziel was asked why McCarron did not wake him, and he said it was not the responsibility of his roommate to do so.

"I'm definitely not going to pin it on him," Manziel said. "It's my fault -- 115, 120 percent."
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http://espn.go.com/colleges/tamu/st...ssful-trying-wake-johnny-manziel-texas-source

So not really sure how you got that he put it on someone else. As it is most sources say the two of them are actually friends as he talked about their relationship and how they were buddies. He made a mistake, true, but all someone can do is apologize (which he did) and learn from it. Not sure how that comes off Ryan Leaf like who many stated had a poor work ethic and was known for his outbursts. Manziel meanwhile has worked with a QB coach for the past couple of years and took steps to improve on one of the weaker parts of his game which is throwing in the pocket. He showed some of that improvement this past season. That's rather night and day compared to Leaf.

In any case, from what I have seen of the pro-day (haven't seen all 63 throws) it was probably the best of the three QB's talked about. I have to say it was very impressive watching his footwork and his delivery on the deep throws. Still some mechanics to iron out but that is why you have QB coaches on the next level. It's obvious that the kid put in some work this offseason so far.
 
deucetx said:
Not sure where you got that he put it on someone else.
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FoxSportsLink

Rumors and Rants says Archie Manning already HAD been told that Manziel was out until at least 4 a.m. Saturday. According to the story, Manning gave the quarterback a chance to fess up, but Manziel lied to Manning, and was then asked to leave the camp. The website also says the Heisman Trophy winner lied to his mother when he told her he overslept and that his roommate A.J. McCarron failed to wake him up.
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From the Rants & Raves article
The whole scenario put McCarron in an awkward spot when he was forced to answer questions about Manziel on Thursday, and now his answer reads even more interestingly.
I can’t answer on Johnny Manziel’s part. My name is A.J. Everything that has to do with him, he’s his own man. I’m not going to speak on another man’s business. That’s how I was raised. If it don’t have nothing to do with you, don’t speak on it. I know how I handle myself out in public, how I carry myself in front of people. That’s what I’m worried about, trying to be the best player and the best person off the field that I can be for my family and the University of Alabama. I never want to disrespect them in any way.
​
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Damn if I really know who's lying. Thing is, why get yourself in that situation to begin with.
 
infantrycak said:
Cossell talked about this and his opinion Manziel is unwilling/unable to pick up the play designs.



I grew up there. Care to fill me in because his comment is spot on. It is a one way rivalry.
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Maybe as far as sports go (football only) it is one sided. But when I first moved there and told my teacher I was from Houston, he said "ahh, you moved away from the armpit of Texas to pristine Arlington". That's one.
 
Charean Williams ‏@NFLCharean
Barbara and George HW Bush appeared halfway through the session in a golf cart: Gus Bradley said, "He didn’t even blink. That’s Johnny."

Manziel huddled with the 75 scouts before pro day started. He said he thanked them for coming and hoped he could "put on a show for them."

Manziel on his day: "I felt like it was good. I obviously was going for perfection, and a couple of balls hit the ground."

Browns will have a private workout with him. Mike Zimmer said Vikings also would work Manziel out privately, so it's "less choregographed."

Manziel on Clev not attending: I’m not disappointed. If they wanted to be here, they had the opportunity to. I don’t think anything of it.

Gus Bradley on Manziel: "I think that’s no different than how he’s performed all year, right? Perform under pressure."

Lovie Smith: "Most guys come out in T-shirts and you don’t play in T-shirts, so coming out made a statement throwing it in pads."

Mike Zimmer shrugged at Manziel's workout: "It was different. It was a different workout." Also called it a "sideshow."
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GuerillaBlack said:
Maybe as far as sports go (football only) it is one sided. But when I first moved there and told my teacher I was from Houston, he said "ahh, you moved away from the armpit of Texas to pristine Arlington". That's one.
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I rather be from Houston the armpit of Texas than be from Dallas/Arlington the perineum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perineum of Texas. Ooh that should be my signature?????????
 
I've yet to meet anyone who's seriously jocking the guy who ISN'T a Texas A&M alum. And truthfully he doesn't really excite me...which is odd because I'm known for my love of enormous "BUSTS"...
 
GuerillaBlack said:
Maybe as far as sports go (football only) it is one sided. But when I first moved there and told my teacher I was from Houston, he said "ahh, you moved away from the armpit of Texas to pristine Arlington". That's one.
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I rather be from Houston the armpit of Texas than be from Dallas/Arlington the perineum of Texas. Ooh that should be my signature?????????



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perineum
 
GuerillaBlack said:
Maybe as far as sports go (football only) it is one sided. But when I first moved there and told my teacher I was from Houston, he said "ahh, you moved away from the armpit of Texas to pristine Arlington". That's one.
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I'd rather live in an "armpit" than an @$$ whole...but that's me.
 
Dread-Head said:
I've yet to meet anyone who's seriously jocking the guy who ISN'T a Texas A&M alum. And truthfully he doesn't really excite me...which is odd because I'm known for my love of enormous "BUSTS"...
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I'm a Sam Houston guy that wanted to go to USC, so not an Aggie fan.

I'd prefer Bridgewater, but he seems to be sliding. Kind of giving off that Notre Dame QB vibe.

Clowney, Bridgewater, and I guess Manziel are probably the top 3 guys. Clowney and JF have huge bust potential, but could have bigger upsides than Bridgewater.

I will probably be happy if neither Blake Bortles nor smarmy douche AJ "Poor Man's Mark Sanchez" McCarron line up under center.
 
HOU-TEX said:
I'll just say this, whoever drafts him will have a circus on their hands for quite a while.

Other than that, he looked good. I can't say much for the broom stick. Dude just doesn't make plays
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This sums it up pretty well for me, especially the stuff about the broom. All kidding aside, he did look good throwing at his pro day, but when I watch him on tape with bodies flying around him, he does not look the same.

If he could be the guy we see in this pro day when the action is live then he would probably be a great selection, but I have my doubts he can maintain this posture when the ammunition is live and the bullets are flying.

ObsiWan said:
Look, first I don't even want a QB drafted in the first so I'm not playing in the Bortles v. Bridgewater v. Manziel squabble.

However, if you're politicking for the number ONE spot in this year's draft, EVERY football move you make MEANS SOMETHING.

You are invited to go to a very respected football camp to learn how the pros do things and then you can't show up at the appointed time. Then you compound that by lying about it to everyone by throwing your roomie under the bus by claiming "he didn't wake me up".

Yeah... it matters when you screw the pooch on so many different levels. He may be a notch above VY but his behavior sure is giving off some serious Ryan Leaf vibes.
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Same here... do not think any of these QB's are a 1:1 pick and would rather wait until next season to look for the franchise guy. After all... we have Keenum and Fitzpatrick. What could go wrong? lol

As far as the camp thing goes, it is important to follow through with your commitments, and I agree he blew it in this instance, but unless you can point to many instances of the same kind of behavior, you have to chalk it up to "sh*t happens" instead of a red flag IMO.

Playoffs said:
Bill Polian's Manziel concerns...

1. He's not going to get appreciably taller,

2. His release point is 3/4s so he won't be releasing it like he's 6'1 1/2" or 6'2"... and defenses will play to that with mush rush and getting their hands up so you're going to have to create a firm front 3 (G-C-G), no inside rush.

3. He's a runner, he has magic outside of the pocket and that will translate into injury so you'd better plan for that because it'll happen
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ESPN
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Not a big Polian fan, but did think his comments were on point. The "mush rush" as he called it was very effective containing Russell Wilson when the Texans played the Seahawks, up until for some unknown reason they stopped doing it in the 2nd half creating all kinds of running lanes for RW, and we all know how that ended.

I enjoyed Mayock's comment "He's (Manziel) going to get broken in half if he thinks he is going to run the ball 20 times a game"

Imagine the heart break Texans fans would suffer if the team appeared to be a legit SB contender, and were SB bound when late in the season their starting QB gets injured, ending all hopes of a SB run.

Oh wait... that already happened.

Carry on...
 
bah007 said:
Ironic comment.

That's not a shot at you btw. I think it was Texian who pretty much said that same thing this morning. It's true among all of you, not just Mr.White.
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Untrue. I believed Manziel could do it, but I was not convinced. His play during the LSU & Missouri games really made me doubt. I was excited after the Duke game, but I was not convinced he would put in the time and effort to prove himself as not only a phenomenal college QB but a capable pocket and under center QB. Manziel showed all of those things and more today. There is zero doubt in my mind he deserves to go #1. No one in the NFL is a guarantee but combine what Manziel did today with his leadership and intangibles, and you have the makings of a potentially great NFL QB.
 
GuerillaBlack said:
Maybe as far as sports go (football only) it is one sided. But when I first moved there and told my teacher I was from Houston, he said "ahh, you moved away from the armpit of Texas to pristine Arlington". That's one.
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With the armpit vs pristine comment, do you think your teacher was referring to the petrochemical complexes on the Houston SC vs the absence of same in Arlington ? Or was intended in a more general sense, whatever that might be ?
 
Say Watt said:
Untrue. I believed Manziel could do it, but I was not convinced. His play during the LSU & Missouri games really made me doubt. I was excited after the Duke game, but I was not convinced he would put in the time and effort to prove himself as not only a phenomenal college QB but a capable pocket and under center QB. Manziel showed all of those things and more today. There is zero doubt in my mind he deserves to go #1. No one in the NFL is a guarantee but combine what Manziel did today with his leadership and intangibles, and you have the makings of a potentially great NFL QB.
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And what about his workout today should change your opinion of the LSU and Missouri games? I didn't see a real pass rush out there forcing him to make quicker reads. I didn't see press coverage on his WR's forcing him to make adjustments. I saw a scripted workout. He looked good, but it was a workout. Don't let a two-hour workout change an opinion you developed over watching 2 years of game tape.
 
Dread-Head said:
I've yet to meet anyone who's seriously jocking the guy who ISN'T a Texas A&M alum. And truthfully he doesn't really excite me...which is odd because I'm known for my love of enormous "BUSTS"...
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I'm not an Aggie, and I'm not gaga for Manziel. I think I'm more against the Texans considering Bridgewater and Bortles than I am pro Manziel. If the Texans draft Bridgewater I'll get on board shortly after my dissapointment, but if they draft Bortles I just might cry.
 
Dread-Head said:
I've yet to meet anyone who's seriously jocking the guy who ISN'T a Texas A&M alum. And truthfully he doesn't really excite me...which is odd because I'm known for my love of enormous "BUSTS"...
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Yep, all these guys are A&M alums...

Johnny Manziel will be a star in the NFL. I can't wait to watch him play!!!!

- Mike Vick (@MikeVick) March 27, 2014

Just finished watching my bro @JManziel2 pro day!! Don't take him if u want 2. He's a flat out STAR! Accuracy on point! #StriveForGreatness

- LeBron James (@KingJames) March 27, 2014

John Gruden compared Manziel to Steve Young after his pro day. Fran Tarkenton is dying for the Vikings to draft him. Chris Mortensen said he "aced" his pro day. Aaron Rodgers said two of the three commentators that kept harping on Manziel dropping his shoulder didn't know what they were talking about. The list goes on.
 
Say Watt said:
Untrue. I believed Manziel could do it, but I was not convinced. His play during the LSU & Missouri games really made me doubt. I was excited after the Duke game, but I was not convinced he would put in the time and effort to prove himself as not only a phenomenal college QB but a capable pocket and under center QB. Manziel showed all of those things and more today. There is zero doubt in my mind he deserves to go #1. No one in the NFL is a guarantee but combine what Manziel did today with his leadership and intangibles, and you have the makings of a potentially great NFL QB.
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Manziel hasn't shown that he's capable of staying in the pocket because he hasn't played a down in the NFL yet. Nobody will know how good he can be in the pocket until he starts playing in the NFL. The workout doesn't show any of that.

That's still the biggest question I have of him. How productive can he be in the pocket?

A few tackling dummies and a broom is not equivalent to a JJ Watt and other linemen rushing at him nonstop.
 
WolverineFan said:
And what about his workout today should change your opinion of the LSU and Missouri games? I didn't see a real pass rush out there forcing him to make quicker reads. I didn't see press coverage on his WR's forcing him to make adjustments. I saw a scripted workout. He looked good, but it was a workout. Don't let a two-hour workout change an opinion you developed over watching 2 years of game tape.
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Well, it wasn't revealed until later in the season that he was dealing with both an injured thumb on his throwing hand as well as an injured shoulder during those two games, so those would be the primary reasons I give a bit more of an excuse to his poor showing there. But yes, I agree. Let the tape tell the story, and all one needs to do is go watch the Bama games from both 2012 and 2013 to see all the tape they need to see.

What today showed me is that Manziel is willing to adapt. He could have thrown out of the shotgun, kept relying on his athleticism, worn shorts and a t-shirt, and numerous other things he did to step up his game and prove himself. He did everything a guy could possibly do to prove his doubters wrong.

The ONLY reason Manziel is not the consensus #1 pick is because he is 5'11-6'0. If the guy was 6'3, he'd be the first pick without question. He came out today though and showed the entire football world that he could compete with the best, is willing to work hard to improve, and is coachable.

I believed in Manziel before. I wasn't sure I believed in him enough to pick him #1. Top 10 before? Yes. Today simply sealed #1 for me.
 
santo said:
Manziel hasn't shown that he's capable of staying in the pocket because he hasn't played a down in the NFL yet. Nobody will know how good he can be in the pocket until he starts playing in the NFL. The workout doesn't show any of that.

That's still the biggest question I have of him. How productive can he be in the pocket?

A few tackling dummies and a broom is not equivalent to a JJ Watt and other linemen rushing at him nonstop.
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Completely agree. But the fact that he is working on it and took every (or nearly every) snap under center says a lot about what he has been working on. Of course it's different when guys like JJ Watt are chasing you down. But that can be said about every single player to ever enter the NFL.
 
Prodays and combine workouts should be the smallest factor in picking players IMO. The only thing they are good for is measurements.
 
Say Watt said:
Well, it wasn't revealed until later in the season that he was dealing with both an injured thumb on his throwing hand as well as an injured shoulder during those two games, so those would be the primary reasons I give a bit more of an excuse to his poor showing there. But yes, I agree. Let the tape tell the story, and all one needs to do is go watch the Bama games from both 2012 and 2013 to see all the tape they need to see.

What today showed me is that Manziel is willing to adapt. He could have thrown out of the shotgun, kept relying on his athleticism, worn shorts and a t-shirt, and numerous other things he did to step up his game and prove himself. He did everything a guy could possibly do to prove his doubters wrong.

The ONLY reason Manziel is not the consensus #1 pick is because he is 5'11-6'0. If the guy was 6'3, he'd be the first pick without question. He came out today though and showed the entire football world that he could compete with the best, is willing to work hard to improve, and is coachable.

I believed in Manziel before. I wasn't sure I believed in him enough to pick him #1. Top 10 before? Yes. Today simply sealed #1 for me.
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I had been on the fence prior to today. That's changed now - I'd prefer Manziel over either of the other two , as he has a better arm than either and he just makes plays.

What sealed the deal for me wasn't what he did on the field , but what he said off it , about being a professional , being the best he can be and being 100% dedicated in that endeavor.

I've got them like this -

Manziel
Bortles
Bridgewater

I would have no problem with taking Manziel #1 overall .... Sure there is bust potential , but the reward far outweighs the risk. You don't often find playmakers like Manziel at the QB position.

It wasn't so much what he did on the field that
 
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