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So .... Who's your QB in 2014 ?! - [edit] Mallett?

Hottoddie said:
The way I see it, all we have to do is trade down with Atlanta (assuming they still want Clowney). I read somewhere that Atlanta might offer their 1st (#6), 2nd (#37) & a 2015 2nd to move up to #2 if Clowney is still on the board. Why can't the Texans take the same deal? I know it's less than the alleged "fair value", but it would fill our needs better than just sitting at #1 & taking Clowney.

The deal could be done prior to the draft & if it went down something like that, we could take Kalil Mack at #6 & send pick #37 to New England for Mallett. The net result is we still get a starting OLB, a starting QB, keep all of our current draft picks & pick up an extra 2nd round pick for next year. What would be wrong with that deal?
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Sounds sweet. And we'd still have #33 to do with as we chose...

If you could get Atlanta to bite, you could have Rick Smith's job.
 
Norg said:
has of now if Matt schaub hit the F/A market I think he would be the hottest F/a QB on the market deff over VIck that's why no teams have signed a QB yet other then cassell I think there waiting 2 see what the Texans do

so with that being said I don't even matt would want to stay here knowing he coul get payed either way
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People are getting antsy about Schaub getting cut.

But.

This is a horrible free agent QB market. At some point in the near future, some team is going to be very, very desperate for a veteran QB. When that happens, they're going to come crawling to us with some ridiculous offers.

We aren't under any time-pressure to get rid of him. With the pressure starting to build, we could be able to convert him into something.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
People are getting antsy about Schaub getting cut.

But.

This is a horrible free agent QB market. At some point in the near future, some team is going to be very, very desperate for a veteran QB. When that happens, they're going to come crawling to us with some ridiculous offers.

We aren't under any time-pressure to get rid of him. With the pressure starting to build, we could be able to convert him into something.
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The Texans arent generally hard ballers with their players. I feel like they generally release the player and say "we wanted to give them a chance to get on with another team."

The Texans could be killing any chance Schaub has of being a starter this year by keeping him until the draft. WHICH I AM TOTALLY FINE WITH. Just saying this doesnt seem normal for the Texans.
 
Starting to feel more and more like Schaub is staying for 1 more season. Cut or traded after this season. Depending on who the rookie QB is, Schaub might not make it past 6-8 games as the starter.


Edit: Schaub will be 7 million in dead money 2015. Roughly 3.5 million less than what his dead money will be for 2014. Essentially what we are paying him to play this season.
 
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Blake said:
Edit: Schaub will be 7 million in dead money 2015. Roughly 3.5 million less than what his dead money will be for 2014. Essentially what we are paying him to play this season.
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Actually it's either 10.5 in 2014 and 0.0 in 2015 or if a June 1st cut it's 3.5 in 2014 and 7.0 in 2015. Looks like you have the 2 combined.

If he's kept for 2014 he counts 14.5 in 2014 against the cap but there's still 7.0 dead money left for 2015/2016.
 
infantrycak said:
He can mentor a hell of a lot better than either of them.
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Would he, though? Didn't come off as a mentor to Keenum. O'Brien has to take the time to teach Schaub the offense, along with teaching a rookie? That makes zero sense, also. Keeping Schaub isn't logical from any perspective.

I remember David Carr wasn't released until after the Texans traded for Schaub. And Smith still tried to snoop around for a trade for Carr, but found no takers at his salary. Same thing with Schaub. No one will trade for that $10 million salary.
 
Hottoddie said:
The way I see it, all we have to do is trade down with Atlanta (assuming they still want Clowney). I read somewhere that Atlanta might offer their 1st (#6), 2nd (#37) & a 2015 2nd to move up to #2 if Clowney is still on the board. Why can't the Texans take the same deal? I know it's less than the alleged "fair value", but it would fill our needs better than just sitting at #1 & taking Clowney.
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That seems reasonable. And even if the Texans don't trade for Mallett, that seems like a very good deal. It's not out of the question that one of the top 3 QBs could be there at 1-6. Not at all.

The real question would be, do the Texans like all of the QBs? If so, let the teams above you determine which QB you take. If they're stuck on one guy, better take him at 1-1 and forget about getting cute.
 
Lucky said:
That seems reasonable. And even if the Texans don't trade for Mallett, that seems like a very good deal. It's not out of the question that one of the top 3 QBs could be there at 1-6. Not at all.

The real question would be, do the Texans like all of the QBs? If so, let the teams above you determine which QB you take. If they're stuck on one guy, better take him at 1-1 and forget about getting cute.
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My question is: Do the Texans - mainly O'Brien - like ANY of the top rated QBs coming out this year? If they do, and they know which guy they want at 1-1, what's the advantage of stringing Schaub along and not cutting him now?
 
infantrycak said:
He can mentor a hell of a lot better than either of them. That is something McNair mentioned when talking QBs - that they wanted a vet even if they drafted a QB 1.1.

Look, I don't want them to keep Schaub but it isn't unreasonable from the Texans' perspective (other than fan considerations).
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Schaub did such a great job of mentoring Case last yr.
 
ObsiWan said:
My question is: Do the Texans - mainly O'Brien - like ANY of the top rated QBs coming out this year?
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Nothing coming out of the Texans organization one way or the other on this. Even McClain admitted on the radio yesterday that he had no idea -- that his declarations have all been based on the assumption that the fanbase would riot if they don't select a QB at 1-1.

ObsiWan said:
...what's the advantage of stringing Schaub along and not cutting him now?
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Different from your presupposition, but...

The alleged script is: 1) The only player teams would trade up to 1-1 for is Jadeveon Clowney, 2) Keeping Schaub as the better veteran QB than any options out there, 3) Maintains the plausibility that Texans will select Clowney at 1-1 to 4) Force the GM lusting after Clowney to trade with us if he wants to ensure getting Clowney.

Our goal being to trade down, add picks... would be kind of a crappy thing to do to Schaub, dump him after teams have set their QB rosters, but it is a business. That's what I'm seeing as why. YMMV
 
Playoffs said:
Nothing coming out of the Texans organization one way or the other on this. Even McClain admitted on the radio yesterday that he had no idea -- that his declarations have all been based on the assumption that the fanbase would riot if they don't select a QB at 1-1.

Different from your presupposition, but...

The alleged script is: 1) The only player teams would trade up to 1-1 for is Jadeveon Clowney, 2) Keeping Schaub as the better veteran QB than any options out there, 3) Maintains the plausibility that Texans will select Clowney at 1-1 to 4) Force the GM lusting after Clowney to trade with us if he wants to ensure getting Clowney.

Our goal being to trade down, add picks... would be kind of a crappy thing to do to Schaub, dump him after teams have set their QB rosters, but it is a business. That's what I'm seeing as why. YMMV
Click to expand...

Listening to McClain on the radio tonight tells me if this is what the Texans brass is thinking (Reaching for Bortles) then this franchise is in for another decade of misery. Edit: with Slick running the team they probably are in for the misery anyway.
 
Playoffs said:
Nothing coming out of the Texans organization one way or the other on this. Even McClain admitted on the radio yesterday that he had no idea -- that his declarations have all been based on the assumption that the fanbase would riot if they don't select a QB at 1-1.

Different from your presupposition, but...

The alleged script is: 1) The only player teams would trade up to 1-1 for is Jadeveon Clowney, 2) Keeping Schaub as the better veteran QB than any options out there, 3) Maintains the plausibility that Texans will select Clowney at 1-1 to 4) Force the GM lusting after Clowney to trade with us if he wants to ensure getting Clowney.

Our goal being to trade down, add picks... would be kind of a crappy thing to do to Schaub, dump him after teams have set their QB rosters, but it is a business. That's what I'm seeing as why. YMMV
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I hear what you're saying but a major part of a GM's job this time of year is to know which guys the other teams are likely to take. The other guys have seen Crennel's defenses and when they try to match what he's historically asked of his DE, Clowney doesn't really fit. So if I'm team X's GM thinking about moving up to grab Clowney do I really believe that Clowney goes to the Texans at 1-1 if I don't trade up or do I stand pat and call their (the Texans') bluff; knowing that if I'm wrong, Dee Ford is still out there and he ain't a bad consolation prize.
 
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If I were Rick I would use Schaubs pride against him, tell him that unless he takes a pay cut he's QB3 for the Texans, if he'll take a pay cut that puts his salary commensurate with his 2013 level of play we'll trade him and even give him a say in where he goes if there are multiple offers.

That or tell him that we plan to sign Haynesworth and have him play scout team until Schaub gets hurt in Training Camp and cut him via an injury settlement. Just kidding I don't wish Schaub any ill will at all, i feel bad for the guy.
 
ObsiWan said:
I hear what you're saying but a major part of a GM's job this time of year is to know which guys the other teams are likely to take...
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Over 20 different GMs/scouts told Greg Cosell on the night before the 2013 Draft that Geno Smith would be a top 10 pick. They don't know.

ObsiWan said:
The other guys have seen Crennel's defenses and when they try to match what he's historically asked of his DE, Clowney doesn't really fit.
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The conversation amongst teams during the Combine was the exact opposte: http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2309844#post2309844

ObsiWan said:
...do I stand pat and call their (the Texans') bluff; knowing that if I'm wrong, Dee Ford is still out there and he ain't a bad consolation prize.
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Everything is for sale... at a price. Texans can be set to take Clowney at 1-1 and still sell that pick to add 2/3 extra players high in this deep draft. I loves me some Dee Ford, but he did have back surgery in 2011. Tradeoffs, risks.

And nobody's going to be tricked into revealing who they will select -- isn't any organization's first rodeo. The discussion is limited to picks. I've got #1, what are you offering.
 
Playoffs said:
Over 20 different GMs/scouts told Greg Cosell on the night before the 2013 Draft that Geno Smith would be a top 10 pick. They don't know.
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If you're talking to a GM/scout the night before the draft, there's a real good chance he's lying.
Big Lou said:
If I were Rick I would use Schaubs pride against him, tell him that unless he takes a pay cut he's QB3 for the Texans, if he'll take a pay cut that puts his salary commensurate with his 2013 level of play we'll trade him and even give him a say in where he goes if there are multiple offers.
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So you're saying you would keep Schaub, and pay him $10 million to be the 3rd QB? I really don't get the "take a pay cut and we'll trade you" scenario. Why wouldn't he just wait to be cut, then get the best deal he could to a team he wanted to play for?
 
Playoffs said:
Our goal being to trade down, add picks... would be kind of a crappy thing to do to Schaub, dump him after teams have set their QB rosters, but it is a business. That's what I'm seeing as why. YMMV
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I thought the same thing, but if you think about it schaub could accept to restructure his contract in order to be more appealing to another team that wants him now.

since he wants those 10M$ he can wait when the team is ready to release him
 
Blake said:
Starting to feel more and more like Schaub is staying for 1 more season. Cut or traded after this season. Depending on who the rookie QB is, Schaub might not make it past 6-8 games as the starter.


Edit: Schaub will be 7 million in dead money 2015. Roughly 3.5 million less than what his dead money will be for 2014. Essentially what we are paying him to play this season.
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The dead money ($10.5M) is the same whether we spread it out over one, two or three years. Not cutting Schaub or at least renegotiating his contract means we spend an additional $10,937,500 in base and roster bonus money. People are getting confused.

The options in dealing with the dead money ($10.5M in all scenarios) are:
1. regular cut - $10.5M cap hit in 2014
2. June 1 cut - $3.5M cap hit in 2014, $7M cap hit in 2015.
3. leave in place, extend or renegotiate for a contract through the 2016 season - $3.5M cap hit in 2014, $3.5M cap hit in 2015 and $3.5M cap hit in 2016

The benefits of cutting are in money that is not dead like base and roster bonuses which also count against caps in those years. A separate accounting of such is:
1. 2014 - $10M Base, $937,500 Roster Bonus
2. 2015 - $12.5M Base, $1M Roster Bonus
3. 2016 - $14.5M Base, $1M Roster bonus

Now this will be repeated as this is a repeat of essentially the same information which has been given before but has not sunk in. Since both count against the Cap, they are often lumped together at some times and not at others which is the source of the confusion. Bringing up cap savings only compounds the problems. Then allocation of the same among multiple years makes following it impossible for some.
 
Hottoddie said:
All right! I believe we dodged a bullet there. Thank you Tampa Bay. You just saved us from "Ed Reed part 2".

In my opinion, our #1 priority should be to sign a starting RT in free agency. No matter who we trot out as our starting QB next year we have to be able to keep them up right to do their job. The sad part is I haven't seen the Texans being listed as interested in any of them. Instead, we were bringing in a one year wonder to look at. As a fan, I do not understand this front office's thinking.

As for acquiring Mallett, I liked the guy coming out of college & now that he seems to have gotten his life in order the last 3 years, I really like the idea of trading for him. But, we have to get a starting RT in free agency. That will open up so many opportunities for us in the draft to load up on defense.

The way I see it, all we have to do is trade down with Atlanta (assuming they still want Clowney). I read somewhere that Atlanta might offer their 1st (#6), 2nd (#37) & a 2015 2nd to move up to #2 if Clowney is still on the board. Why can't the Texans take the same deal? I know it's less than the alleged "fair value", but it would fill our needs better than just sitting at #1 & taking Clowney.

The deal could be done prior to the draft & if it went down something like that, we could take Kalil Mack at #6 & send pick #37 to New England for Mallett. The net result is we still get a starting OLB, a starting QB, keep all of our current draft picks & pick up an extra 2nd round pick for next year. What would be wrong with that deal?
Click to expand...

By the numbers

Houston 1-1 3000

ATL 1-6 1600
ATL 2-37 530
2015 2nd 190
Total 2320

Throw in the 2015 1st (420) and then we can talk at 2740.

I'm an advocate of picking up future picks at the current market discount whenever possible. I expect the discount to fall in the future.

ps Future picks derived from the value of the 16th pick of the next lowest round of the current year for 2015, two rounds lower for 2016, three rounds lower for 2017, etc.
 
I can only HOPE we are trying to work a blockbuster deal behind the scenes to acquire nick foles. I'd give up 1:1 for foles.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
People are getting antsy about Schaub getting cut.

But.

This is a horrible free agent QB market. At some point in the near future, some team is going to be very, very desperate for a veteran QB. When that happens, they're going to come crawling to us with some ridiculous offers.

We aren't under any time-pressure to get rid of him. With the pressure starting to build, we could be able to convert him into something.
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If Gabbert is worth a 6th, then Schaub is worth a 4th?
 
brg88tx said:
doubt they would, but I heard they would like a more mobile qb like manziel
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Well add that person to the list of people you disregard. No team is trading a 27 td, 2 INT QB over mobility idealism. The only way Folk is getting traded away is if he gets caught making conjugal visits to the HC or owners' house while they are out.
 
Marshall said:
The dead money ($10.5M) is the same whether we spread it out over one, two or three years. Not cutting Schaub or at least renegotiating his contract means we spend an additional $10,937,500 in base and roster bonus money. People are getting confused.
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My point is, I don't agree that there is much benefit in cutting him now vs. next year. Either way we are going to spend that extra 10-11 million on a vet QB contract. See Josh McCown 2 year deal.

And Schaub has zero incentive to renegotiate his deal IMO. And the Texans have zero leverage to make him do it.

It might be the best idea to keep Schaub for another year and give him the money, maybe he can turn it around and increase his trade value while giving our #1 pick more time to learn the NFL.

jradMIT said:
If Gabbert is worth a 6th, then Schaub is worth a 4th?
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Its the size of his contract that have people resisting him.Gabbert is cheap. And young.
 
Blake said:
And Schaub has zero incentive to renegotiate his deal IMO. And the Texans have zero leverage to make him do it.
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I think there is one sales pitch they might sell him on. Tell him they will be taking one of the top 3 QBs at 1.1 but they do not want him to start the season. Tell Schaub he will get 6-8 games starting which will be his opportunity to audition for the league and show he is better than his off year and up his market value and chance for a starting job. Get him to reduce to an amount akin to Henne/Cassel which is what he could currently hope for and increase his odds to get more next year.

Not saying that is what they should do but I think there is leverage/incentive to work with.
 
Blake said:
Starting to feel more and more like Schaub is staying for 1 more season. Cut or traded after this season. Depending on who the rookie QB is, Schaub might not make it past 6-8 games as the starter.


Edit: Schaub will be 7 million in dead money 2015. Roughly 3.5 million less than what his dead money will be for 2014. Essentially what we are paying him to play this season.
Click to expand...

Rumor is that the Raiders made a trade offer for Schaub, but I haven't heard anything about it since.
 
infantrycak said:
Well add that person to the list of people you disregard. No team is trading a 27 td, 2 INT QB over mobility idealism. The only way Folk is getting traded away is if he gets caught making conjugal visits to the HC or owners' house while they are out.
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You mean like Hillis hitting on Josh McDaniels wife?
 
Dutchrudder said:
Rumor is that the Raiders made a trade offer for Schaub, but I haven't heard anything about it since.
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From the Raiders Oakland Tribune beat writer
Jerry McDonald @Jerrymcd

Like it or not, the veteran QB Raiders have most interest in at moment is not yet a free agent _ Matt Schaub of Houston.
1:30 PM - 12 Mar 2014 from California, US, United States
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Marshall said:
By the numbers

Houston 1-1 3000

ATL 1-6 1600
ATL 2-37 530
2015 2nd 190
Total 2320

Throw in the 2015 1st (420) and then we can talk at 2740.

I'm an advocate of picking up future picks at the current market discount whenever possible. I expect the discount to fall in the future.

ps Future picks derived from the value of the 16th pick of the next lowest round of the current year for 2015, two rounds lower for 2016, three rounds lower for 2017, etc.
Click to expand...


I agree that we should ask for the 2015 1st, but my gut tells me they would balk at that price. So, wouldn't it make more sense to take less than fair value (if it's the best offer you can get from them), if it helps you to fill more needs than standing pat & taking Clowney only? I realize that Clowney is a rare talent, but so are JJ/AJ & together they couldn't get us there.

My concern is just that the #1 overall pick rarely gets traded because of the perceived value. In the scenario I proposed, we still draft a stud OLB, trade one 2nd round pick for a starting QB & pick up an extra 2nd round pick for our troubles for just passing on Clowney. Maybe I'm wrong, but that seems to be good value to me.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
People are getting antsy about Schaub getting cut.

But.

This is a horrible free agent QB market. At some point in the near future, some team is going to be very, very desperate for a veteran QB. When that happens, they're going to come crawling to us with some ridiculous offers.

We aren't under any time-pressure to get rid of him. With the pressure starting to build, we could be able to convert him into something.
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I know a team desperate for a veteran QB......... They play in Harris County, TX.....
 
infantrycak said:
I don't think a trade is likely still but one reason the #1 was rarely traded was the obscene contracts which have now been eliminated.
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I think the rams are in a better place to trade the pick, everyone waiting on us then they will get the calls


Your man... Pots and pans
 
if Ol rick is good enough to snopp the raiders in giving up a pick rather the be a 5th or 4th for MAttt then man maybe he has turend it around and put his game face on


The raiders are not that dumb tho LOL why not just wait till hes cut


the pick what 7th they can get one of the top 3 QBS in the draft
 
PHILLYTEXANFAN said:
I think the rams are in a better place to trade the pick, everyone waiting on us then they will get the calls
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Everyone is waiting? Not one team would say, "Let's call the Texans to see if they would move out of 1-1"? Really?
 
Even before FA started there was word on the street that Lovie Smith didn't have much faith in Mike Glennon being the starting QB.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on...-mccown-bucs-starting-qb-lovie-smith-says-yes (Recent article about McCown signing)

Smith inherited Mike Glennon from the previous regime and he never appeared to be onboard with the 2013 third-round pick out of NC State, even though Glennon fared well after taking over for Josh Freeman last season.
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As a rookie he had 19 TD's and only 9 INT's. He fits BOB's prototypical QB and because of the random fall out with Lovie, we should inquire on him and see if they'd be willing to trade.

Yates + 4th or 5th for Glennon?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeDzn78MiYg (Highlights)
http://www.nfl.com/player/mikeglennon/2539275/profile (Stats)

I'd be interested.
 
infantrycak said:
I don't think a trade is likely still but one reason the #1 was rarely traded was the obscene contracts which have now been eliminated.
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I think a trade is entirely possible.

Say you trade back to 4 or even 6 , you are going to have one or more of the following to choose from -

Jadeveon Clowney
Greg Robinson
Jake Matthews
Blake Bortles
Teddy Bridgewater
Johnny Manziel
Sammy Watkins
Khalil Mack
Anthony Barr
Zack Martin

With all the need for QB's at the top even at 4/6 its quite possible you get the best prospect at his position .... and compensation for moving down. (I use QB#1-3 rather than actually rank them to avoid argument on that subject).

Scenario 1 - Trade w/ Cleveland

Cle - QB#1
Stl - Greg Robinson
Jaq's - QB#2

You are sitting @ #4 with Clowney , Mack , Barr , Watkins & one of the top 3 QB's.

Scenario 2 - Trade w/ Atlanta

Atl - Clowney
Stl - Robinson
Jaq's - QB1
Cleveland - QB#2
Oakland - QB#3

You are in good shape here too , tho you don't get a shot at a first round QB , there is loads of talent available , with the best player @ OLB , WR , CB & ILB still on the board along with multiple top tier OT prospects.


Earlier in the process , I would have wanted a kings ransom for the #1 overall , something like 4 , 26 , 68 + a future pick.

Now , after realizing what would be available to me , I'd still like that huge haul , but would settle for a bit less , maybe 4 & 26 or 4 , 35 & a future pick from Cleveland or something like 6 , 37 , 101 and a future pick from Atlanta.

None of those deals come close to what the Redskins gave to move up to #2 which was two #1's , a #2 and a future #1. to move 4(?) spots.
 
Blake said:
My point is, I don't agree that there is much benefit in cutting him now vs. next year. Either way we are going to spend that extra 10-11 million on a vet QB contract. See Josh McCown 2 year deal.

And Schaub has zero incentive to renegotiate his deal IMO. And the Texans have zero leverage to make him do it.

It might be the best idea to keep Schaub for another year and give him the money, maybe he can turn it around and increase his trade value while giving our #1 pick more time to learn the NFL.



Its the size of his contract that have people resisting him.Gabbert is cheap. And young.
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Perhaps I should have made this clearer. The extra ~$11M is for just 2014. 2015 would be an another $13.5M (Making it the equivalent of a ~$24.5M two year contract) and 2016 would be another additional $15.5M, (Making it the equivalent of a $40M three year contract)

Again, this is over the $10.5M in dead money we have to count against the cap.

I do not think it will take this much to get a backup since this is the price of a mid tier starter. But Schaub MIGHT be willing to negotiate on his non-guaranteed salary to reflect the price of a veteran backup and occasional starter.
 
infantrycak said:
I think there is one sales pitch they might sell him on. Tell him they will be taking one of the top 3 QBs at 1.1 but they do not want him to start the season. Tell Schaub he will get 6-8 games starting which will be his opportunity to audition for the league and show he is better than his off year and up his market value and chance for a starting job. Get him to reduce to an amount akin to Henne/Cassel which is what he could currently hope for and increase his odds to get more next year.

Not saying that is what they should do but I think there is leverage/incentive to work with.
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And the earth shakes as we agree on the sales pitch. Though the same could be told to Keenum with a much lesser hit on the cap and no need to renegotiate.
 
Corrosion said:
Earlier in the process , I would have wanted a kings ransom for the #1 overall , something like 4 , 26 , 68 + a future pick.

Now , after realizing what would be available to me , I'd still like that huge haul , but would settle for a bit less , maybe 4 & 26 or 4 , 35 & a future pick from Cleveland or something like 6 , 37 , 101 and a future pick from Atlanta.

None of those deals come close to what the Redskins gave to move up to #2 which was two #1's , a #2 and a future #1. to move 4(?) spots.
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Based on your expectations for what we receive for our 1.1, I have to tell you you aren't being realistic here Corrosion because there's no one in this Draft remotely comparable in value to RGIII. So those charts that say you can get this or that for your 1.1 based upon assigning various arbitrary point totals to the different picks are irrevalent this year, even with the changes to the CBA which makes the compensation scale less progressive and therefor the top pick less expensive in terms of cap than under the old CBA.
So you said you'd want Clevelands 1.4, 1.26, & 2.4 for our 1.1, right ? You need to tone down your demands/expectations and look at something more along the lines of getting just their 1.4 & 2.4.
 
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