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Clowney, then what?
- Thread starter thunderkyss
- Start date
aussie_texan
Veteran
http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftrumormill.php
Jadeveon Clowney Impresses in Combine Interviews
Two teams that are picking in the top five told WalterFootball.com that they are good with Clowney as a person/teammate, and they are not concerned about his work ethic or drive.
Jadeveon Clowney Impresses in Combine Interviews
Two teams that are picking in the top five told WalterFootball.com that they are good with Clowney as a person/teammate, and they are not concerned about his work ethic or drive.
What sucks, is if he's right, then that means there are no special players in this draft. No one worth trading up for & we're going to have to take the lesser evil.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
And to add, von miller was better in the underwear olympics as was mario,manny lawson,jevon kearse to name a few, still, we have neva,eva saw a dude like this. those guys were combine freaks and produced before they came out.
How many of these guys were 6'5 266 Lbs?
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Manny Lawson,Mario Williams,Jevon Kearse.
How many had more than 3 sacks and 0 forced fumbles? I don't even have to add simeon rice,do I?
Good Response
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
We've been at this for months and even though we disagree, I respect the conversation. There are things I like about clowney,but there are a lot of things I can't get past. Even if I know or have a feeling he's not the next great player,that doesn't mean don't draft him. If mario would've stayed healthy in houston, he was still a great pick by the texans. I mean he's had 23 sacks the last 2 yrs in buffalo and helped them get 57 as a unit. Is he worth the qb money? No, but he's been good. If the texans draft clowney,I'm not expection him to be von miller or aldon smith anymore than I expect tb to be peyton or brady. Even so,that's not a reason to not draft either.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
OK. So.
Something I have to admit... something that might make me come around on Clowney...
I was going through some of the great pass rushers college careers over the past decade or so and an interesting thing popped out at me. A lot of them had less sacks their last year in college than they did their previous year. Aldon Smith with from 11.5 to 3. Von Miller went from 17 to 10. Clay Matthews only had 4.5 his senior year (and 0 the year before).
So I'm not going to get on Clowney for that, anymore. I still think he's got some issues and I think he's a risky player... but less risky than I thought.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Von went down in sacks 17-10,but up in tackles and his tfl went from 21-17 with 3 ff. Just because you're not getting sacks,doesn't mean you can't run down plays and players,that's my issue.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
None, really. A lot of these insiders make stuff up for headlines. I can't remember the last a insider have been right regarding the texans draft. Smith has been quiet with his draft stuff. Now all of sudden, these insiders have info. I know the guy everyone talks about the most is the player the texans are least likely to draft. That's been their mo.
Texian
Hall of Fame
So the only acceptable debate is the way and style that you want to debate and that you approve?
(Oh and my observations of Clowney have absolutely nothing to do with Blake Bortles)
Well, considering I've heard "insider" reports ranging from Bortles, to Manziel, to Clowney, to Bridgewater, to trading back....odds are pretty good that one is right this time around.
Texian
Hall of Fame
While watching, A Football Life, Derrick Thomas I wondered if maybe I had erred in my observations of Jadevon Clowney. Could Clowney be another Derrick Thomas. Then I realized that Thomas had 27 sacks his last year at Alabama NOT 3. I learned what made Thomas great was his exceptionally quick first step. So good in fact that his teammate Neil Smith went from watching the ball to watching Thomas first step. If there is a Derrick Thomas comparison it's DeMarcus Ware and Clay Matthews III and their anticipation and < 1.50 10 yd split.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
What are the conflicting reports you've seen/heard?
Allstar
Bona fide
I've read Teddy struggled in interviews, and Bortles impressed. Then Todd McShay goes on NFL Live and says Teddy shined in interviews, and Bortles was a mess on the whiteboard. I've also seen both good and bad reports about Clowney's interviews.
Do you have any links to the reports?
QB interviews are different than those of position players.
Position players get asked a lot of crap about non football stuff.
QB's are asked to show their football smarts on the chalk board.
Interviews don't mean a whole lot with position players to me.
Texian
Hall of Fame
How long has the palm reader McShay been touting Teddy Bridgewater? Surely the Fortune Teller doesn't want to poop in his lunch box now????
bhsman
Rookie
IIRC McGinnest also had a drop in sacks during his senior year, and he gets a lot of comparisons to Clowney.
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The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
In the pros, McGinest only had more than 10 sacks 1 time and that was when he got 11.5. Not that he wasn't a great player -- he was -- but he wasn't a great sack artist like one would expect Clowney to be.
OTOH, as I noted in another post, several players who are known to be able to put up big sack numbers had a dip in their sack numbers their last year in college. So, Clowney's drop in sacks doesn't bother me as much as it did a few days ago.
it's much easier to game plan against a single great player in college than it is in the pros.
bhsman
Rookie
Yeah, I think the expectation is Clowney's speed and balance will make him a better pass-rusher.
Yeah, I just mentioned McGinest to add to that list.
PapaL
Loose Screw
Another new/updated mock, another Clowney at #1; NFL.com LINK
1-1 JADEVEON CLOWNEY:
Clowney's lack of production this season is a concern, but his combination of size and explosiveness will be too tough to pass up.
1-1 JADEVEON CLOWNEY:
Clowney's lack of production this season is a concern, but his combination of size and explosiveness will be too tough to pass up.
bhsman
Rookie
I imagine a lot of post-Combine mocks will put Clowney back in contention for #1, especially with reports that he seemingly did well in interviews. As an aside, the idea of Sammy Watkins and Josh Gordon working together just seems plain filty. Then again, we would have Watt and Clowney to work with.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
...or did he? Just being on the field doesn't mean you actually PLAYED.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I never heard a team speak. I've heard of Owners, staff members and players speak, but not the team. So I simply ask which is it? The Owner, a Staff member or a player? Otherwise, it might as well be the assistant water boy.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Awareness and flexibility. Just because u can run fast in a straight line, doesn't mean u can play olb in a 3-4. The ability to read the formatgion and passing conceps as well as change in direction is much more important than being a minear fast athlete.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Personally, I think he could even be better as a 3-4 olb than he was a DE. His first two steps are just as quick if not quicker than most. Look at Mario for example. He wasn't as flexible and quick as Clowney, but he was coming on strong as an olb in Wade's scheme.
I keep seeing McGinnest's name mentioned when talking Clowney. Well, I think Clowney can become much more dominant than McGinnest ever was
klockWork
Rookie
Where in any game tape does it shows him having poor field awareness? Did he blew a coverage, got beat on a route, caught napping in a short zone? When and where did this happen?
If the guy not ask a lot to drop back in coverage how can anybody adequately evaluate that aspect of his game?
If Clowney doesn't have the ability to backpeddle, run along a TE or Rb, and run to a spot where the football will be thrown to, then he shouldn't play football period.
Blake
MMQB
So Orakpo had more flexibility and awareness than Clowney does? Did Clowney do any change of direction drills at the combine? I guess what I am asking is what proves that Clowney cant change direction and has poor awareness?
I agree with this. If Mario could do it, then Clowney sure as hell can.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
He's never had any of those things happen because he's played as a DE with his hand in the dirt. He's the sort of guy that you want to participate at the Combine and do LB drills so you can see if he's got the movement ability to be able to change directions and run smoothly.
But in the 3-cone drill, something that you want an OLB to be pretty good at, Clowney was not a monster. He was pretty average. So that seems to support the fact that he's not going to be able to adapt very well to being in coverage.
So if you're going to make him an OLB, you're going to have to create schemes to cover the fact that he's going to be a pure rusher. Or you're going to have to teach him to do something that he's not naturally good at.
That's not saying he absolutely can't be used as an OLB but he's going to take a little more time to develop than someone who's more natural to the position.
And historically, Crennel's 3-4 is more traditional that Wade's. In Wade's , the rush OLB had very little coverage assignment work. So someone like Mario Williams was just going to be rushing and penetrating, anyway. But Crennel likes to ask his OLBs to cover more.
I think we don't want to call Clowney an OLB because traditionally... you don't draft an OLB with the #1 overall pick.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
He participated in the 3-cone drill and put forth an average time. He finished 12th out of all D-Linemen at the Combine. 2 DT's had better times.
The only thing that matters is his 40 time. He's going to be racing OLmen up and down the field , not rushing the passer.
TexansFTW
Veteran
Mario Williams. Texans. Final years here: OLB.
Blake
MMQB
Because we all know that NFL position priorities never change.
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
If we do draft Clowney, I just hope he doesn't Vernon Gholston out on us.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
That's my fear.
We didn't draft him to be an OLB. If you were here at the time, you'd remember the discussions we had here. Surely we're going to a 4-3 if we drafted Mario, you don't draft an OLB with the 1st overall, you don't draft a 3-4 DE with the 1st overall. Just like we're saying it would be a waste of Jj's talents, it would be a waste of a #1 overall pick.
As good as Mario looked at OLB, he went to FA as a 4-3 DE, & was signed as a 4-3 DE. We may never see the day on OLB gets a $96M contract.
However, the new CBA may very well change that, that's why I said "traditionally"
I think he's a freak... for a DE, not so much for an OLB. As an OLB I believe we can find comparable talent in a later round, Bridgewater in the first & OLB "outside passrusher" makes more sense if you project Clowney as an OLB. Not so much as a 4-3 DE.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Do you think Texans would consider switching back to a 4-3 to take Clowney?
One word. Elephant.
I think Romeo is more likely to pick up a few Wade Phillips tricks. Like Demarcus Ware, Clowney will "never" drop into coverage & he'll probably have his hand in the dirt as often as not.
If we draft Clowney, which I don't think we will.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Nobody knows. I believe Rick rolls the dice & trades down. I'm hoping for OT myself, don't think it matters who is QB without protection & viable running game
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
In this very thread, an ex nfl player wrote a piece about clowney being molded into a. Monster. One of his knocks were as good an athlete clowney is,he doesn't change directions well. His 3 cone backs adds backbone. If you watch the game v vols, he dropped back in coverage a few times. He did it,maybe because he was winded,but he didn't look like he was doing it with a purpose.
I'm hoping he becomes a Robert Brazile type OLB for us. I'd be totally good with that.
...IF Clowney is who we draft that is.
You might be joking but this is exactly where I stand.Nobody knows. I believe Rick rolls the dice & trades down. I'm hoping for OT myself, don't think it matters who is QB without protection & viable running game
The part I underlined is the truth.
We drafted a physically talented QB at 1-1 but didn't give him a decent O-line and got him killed.
We drafted a defensive, pass rushing, physical freak at 1-1 while still needing a decent O-line and didn't get above a .500 winning record until we finally brought an O-line guru in here and gave him the pieces he wanted to build a solid line.
Fix. the
freakin'
O-line.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Nobody knows. I believe Rick rolls the dice & trades down. I'm hoping for OT myself, don't think it matters who is QB without protection & viable running game
Problem is this is an equally valid statement:
"I'm hoping for a QB myself, don't think it matters who is OL without a passer."
OL can be biggest need and still not need filling with 1.1, as a matter of fact it generally is not 1st round at all. The same, with a couple of exceptions notable for proving the rule, cannot be said for QB.