Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

Ot... Og

thunderkyss

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
So I started the "Clowney, then what" thread hoping it would be a place we can discuss the rest of the draft. We've got several spots that do not have a current starter.

Our biggest problem is Quarterback, but our OL wasn't doing anyone any favors last season. Whether it was Schaub, Keenum, Foster, or Tate to put it bluntly the OL didn't do it's part.

I know OB most likely has his own ideas & plans for the team, but I want to hear what you want to do, as far as the draft goes.

I'm not in love with any of these QBs, I think I made that clear. You may be, & that's fine. If we draft Bridgewater, I'm going to be the biggest Bridgewater fan this side of my couch. If we draft Bortles, I'm buying a jersey ASAP. If we draft Manziel..... well, it's going to be hard not to sell my game tickets, I could probably sell them for 4x face value easy. So I'm going to like that.

So assuming we take a QB with that first pick.... or a DE, who should we be looking for on the offensive line. I want a guard & a tackle. If you're high on Quessenbery, that's cool, what OT do you think will be there in the 6th, 7th, UD....

Is there a guard with high upside that can be had in the 3rd or 4th? I'm good with using a second... just need to know who's out there, who's worth checking out.
 
I think the majority of our line is set with Brown, Myers and Brooks. I'm expecting Quessenberry to come in and take over at LG.

So for me, I'm expecting to draft an RT fairly early.

I'm hoping for Antonio Richardson or Cyrus Kouandjio (sp) at 2-1 but they might wait until later in the draft. Mayock has said this is a tackle-deep draft so we might be able to get a good one in the 3rd or 4th but I don't know all these guys, yet.

I'm hoping I'll learn more from the Combine and from the TT Mock.
 
OT's that I like:
Cyrus Kouandjio, might be available in the 2nd round, but it will take some luck.
Morgan Moses, 2nd round or maybe in the 3rd if we're lucky.
Antonio Richardson, 2nd round if he can lose some weight and gain some athleticism/agility.
JaWaun James, 3rd round, very solid RT.
James Hurst, 4th round currently has a broken leg but bones heal better than tendons.
Joel Bitonio, just beginning to look at him, maybe 3rd round.
Cameron Fleming, just beginning to look at him, maybe 5th round or later.

OG's that I like:
David Yankey, 2nd round prospect.
Gabe Jackson, 2nd round prospect as well.
Cyril Richardson, 2nd or 3rd rounder.
Brandon Thomas, 4th round prospect
Andrew Norwell, late round or UDFA can play both OT and OG.

Honestly I project Quessenberry to fill the LG spot. I think we should take an OT in the 2nd or 3rd depending on how the draft falls to us and then maybe a late round developmental guy that can play both OT/OG.
 
Wolf6151 said:
Honestly I project Quessenberry to fill the LG spot. I think we should take an OT in the 2nd or 3rd depending on how the draft falls to us and then maybe a late round developmental guy that can play both OT/OG.
Click to expand...

Although most people of talking Quess at LG. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see OB try Quess as RT. After all he played LT and RT in college.
 
thunderkyss said:
So I started the "Clowney, then what" thread hoping it would be a place we can discuss the rest of the draft. We've got several spots that do not have a current starter.

Our biggest problem is Quarterback, but our OL wasn't doing anyone any favors last season. Whether it was Schaub, Keenum, Foster, or Tate to put it bluntly the OL didn't do it's part.

I know OB most likely has his own ideas & plans for the team, but I want to hear what you want to do, as far as the draft goes.

I'm not in love with any of these QBs, I think I made that clear. You may be, & that's fine. If we draft Bridgewater, I'm going to be the biggest Bridgewater fan this side of my couch. If we draft Bortles, I'm buying a jersey ASAP. If we draft Manziel..... well, it's going to be hard not to sell my game tickets, I could probably sell them for 4x face value easy. So I'm going to like that.

So assuming we take a QB with that first pick.... or a DE, who should we be looking for on the offensive line. I want a guard & a tackle. If you're high on Quessenbery, that's cool, what OT do you think will be there in the 6th, 7th, UD....

Is there a guard with high upside that can be had in the 3rd or 4th? I'm good with using a second... just need to know who's out there, who's worth checking out.
Click to expand...

I personally think OB tries to make do with Quessenberry and Williams, neither has been on Reliant field. If OL is a must then it's Billy Turner in RD 4 for me. A 5th or 6th RD OL is likely a bigger waste than Quess or Williams.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Although most people of talking Quess at LG. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see OB try Quess as RT. After all he played LT and RT in college.
Click to expand...

I'd have no problems trying him at RT. I think he needed to add some strength from what I saw in preseason last year, but he had the mobility. I surely hope the broken foot healed 100% and he used the time off to get bigger and study his craft. He should have been in the weight room and film room every day.
 
With Quess and Williams coming back, plus the others from last year, we should be sitting pretty good going into training camp with the addition of just one mid round prospect. I think the general rule of thumb is that you always try to bring in at least one new player every year to compete for playing time. Since RT was our weak spot last year, the player that has caught my eye pre-combine is Ja'wuan James at 4-1. Wolf6151 has him at 3-1,but I don't believe I've seen a big board with him quite this high. This may change after the combine, but I think he's generally rated as 3/4 right now, somewhere about 112 overall.

The description I have on him this early is that he's a natural right tackle who quickly recognizes stunts and has initial quickness with lateral agility and flexibility. He's light on his feet, plays with his knees bent and has good balance.

Sounds too good; I need to find out what his weaknesses are and why he's currently rated so low. He's 6'-6", 315 and with 40 time around 5.28.
 
At OT I like Morgan Moses IF he's there at 32. JuWaun James/Cameron Fleming/Billy Turner in the 3rd.

Late rd guys 5-7 John Halapio/Matt Patchan/Spencer Long.
 
personally i wouldn't take an o-lineman till late in the draft.
LG i think will go to big Q and jones as backup which is probably good enough.
Newton will be gone or at least a back up and if we had average play from the RT position this year we would have been at least a top 15 line.
My thinking is give williams a decent chance of taking the RT spot and bring in a FA like Austin howard to compete with.

For me if we get at least average play from LG and RT our o-line will be good enough.
We just have to many holes to fill that have higher priority.
 
ObsiWan said:
What is your expection regarding Quessenberry's recovery? 100%? 90%?
Click to expand...

The Texans have kept the information regarding his injury limited to.........."foot fracture." That tells me nothing about ultimate prognosis.

This is what I wrote right after it happened.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2202573&postcount=23

Shortly thereafter, he underwent an equally descriptive "surgery."

He could come back with essentially no significant residual effects.........or he can become another Yao Ming.

Sorry, but that's as far as I can take it. I hope that the Texans have not been so ESPECIALLY vague re. his injury because of a poor prognosis. I guess we will all find out come OTAs.
 
aussie_texan said:
personally i wouldn't take an o-lineman till late in the draft.
LG i think will go to big Q and jones as backup which is probably good enough.
Click to expand...

I personally would like to get beyong "good enough." I dream of the day sportscasters are able to say, "He has all kinds of time..." when talking about our QB.
 
This is a fantastic draft for OL. Lots of talent and tons of depth. If we end up with 2-3 comp picks then I think we should double dip at the position. Maybe one early-to-mid pick and one mid-to-late pick.
 
thunderkyss said:
I personally would like to get beyong "good enough." I dream of the day sportscasters are able to say, "He has all kinds of time..." when talking about our QB.
Click to expand...

i think we can have that with a decent RT. as you know the o-line is one whole unit and you are only has strong as your weakest link in our case last year very weak because RT was a mess.
Fix that, brooks will play elevate his play which should help meyers and so forth.
 
Quessenberry and Williams cannot be considered reliable right now. They may be eventually, but they're not off to a good start. As long as their injury risk exists, we have to draft at those two positions. Depth is needed on the line anyway.
 
aussie_texan said:
personally i wouldn't take an o-lineman till late in the draft.
LG i think will go to big Q and jones as backup which is probably good enough.
Newton will be gone or at least a back up and if we had average play from the RT position this year we would have been at least a top 15 line.
My thinking is give williams a decent chance of taking the RT spot and bring in a FA like Austin howard to compete with.

For me if we get at least average play from LG and RT our o-line will be good enough.
We just have to many holes to fill that have higher priority.
Click to expand...

thunderkyss said:
I personally would like to get beyond "good enough." I dream of the day sportscasters are able to say, "He has all kinds of time..." when talking about our QB.
Click to expand...
THANK YOU!

"Good enough" for what??
We may very well be starting a rookie at QB and folks will be satisfied with "good enough"??
:mcnugget:

I want the very best O-line we can assemble to give who ever we have starting the best chance to be successful. I'd rather not have my QB have to make up for shoddy O-line play. I've saw that movie last season and I didn't like how it ended.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
The Texans have kept the information regarding his injury limited to.........."foot fracture." That tells me nothing about ultimate prognosis.

This is what I wrote right after it happened.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2202573&postcount=23

Shortly thereafter, he underwent an equally descriptive "surgery."

He could come back with essentially no significant residual effects.........or he can become another Yao Ming.

Sorry, but that's as far as I can take it. I hope that the Texans have not been so ESPECIALLY vague re. his injury because of a poor prognosis. I guess we will all find out come OTAs.
Click to expand...

This worries me. The Texans Med Staff don't exactly have a superlative record regarding diagnosing and treating injuries. Counting on Quess to come back to full strength is a real gamble; one I don't care to take for some one who might possibly be our starting RT.
 
ObsiWan said:
THANK YOU!

"Good enough" for what??
We may very well be starting a rookie at QB and folks will be satisfied with "good enough"??
:mcnugget:

I want the very best O-line we can assemble to give who ever we have starting the best chance to be successful. I'd rather not have my QB have to make up for shoddy O-line play. I've saw that movie last season and I didn't like how it ended.
Click to expand...

Good enough to be part of one of the top OLs in the league - and that can be had at 2.1. We had a damn good one with 3.2 at RT.

The Seahawks split time between 5th and 7th rounders at RT. Denver had a 2nd rounder at RT. We aren't the Eagles with a 32 year old LT such that it made sense to draft their future LT and play him at RT. Ours is 28.
 
infantrycak said:
Good enough to be part of one of the top OLs in the league - and that can be had at 2.1. We had a damn good one with 3.2 at RT.

The Seahawks split time between 5th and 7th rounders at RT. Denver had a 2nd rounder at RT. We aren't the Eagles with a 32 year old LT such that it made sense to draft their future LT and play him at RT. Ours is 28.
Click to expand...

We had one of the best QBs in the league at that time as well. He was taken in the 3rd round of the NFL draft. The Seahawks just won the Super Bowl with a QB they selected in the third round.

If the new CBA makes any position, save for special teams, a viable option with the #1 overall pick... then having two first round picks playing OT shouldn't be an issue.

The Texans, imo, instantly become one of the better teams in the league if we can find someone better than Duane Brown. & that's with our current crop of QBs. If he's as good as Duane, we may very well be that 4th team in the AFC. If he's "good enough" to play RT, we'll be among the best in the league between the 20s... again.

Do you think there is a chance that we can find a guy in the third with any possibility of being a better LT than Duane Brown? If we draft a guy in the third, it's very well possible we miss like we did with Caldwell, the can't miss guard out of Alabama, or Ben Jones, the best Center prospect (or second/third best) out of Georgia.

If we draft the best OT prospect in this draft, we raise the bar. We help Keenum, Yates, and even Schaub to perform their jobs better, which in turn elevates everyone else on offense. If we can stay on the field, increase our scoring efficiency, we'll even make the defense look better. Looking for that guy in the 3rd... maybe we do, maybe we don't.

Use that pick on one of these QBs, maybe we do, maybe we don't. Looks like there are 3, maybe 4 OTs that grade as good or better than the three QBs at the top of the draft. 3 of them, much better. Again, my opinion but there will still be 3 QBs on the board in the 2nd that grade as well as those 3 QBs. There will be no OTs on the board that grade as well as the top 3 OTs in this draft. There will be no OTs on the board that grade as well as the top 3 QBs left in the second.
 
thunderkyss said:
We had one of the best QBs in the league at that time as well. He was taken in the 3rd round of the NFL draft. The Seahawks just won the Super Bowl with a QB they selected in the third round.

If the new CBA makes any position, save for special teams, a viable option with the #1 overall pick... then having two first round picks playing OT shouldn't be an issue.

The Texans, imo, instantly become one of the better teams in the league if we can find someone better than Duane Brown. & that's with our current crop of QBs. If he's as good as Duane, we may very well be that 4th team in the AFC. If he's "good enough" to play RT, we'll be among the best in the league between the 20s... again.

Do you think there is a chance that we can find a guy in the third with any possibility of being a better LT than Duane Brown? If we draft a guy in the third, it's very well possible we miss like we did with Caldwell, the can't miss guard out of Alabama, or Ben Jones, the best Center prospect (or second/third best) out of Georgia.

If we draft the best OT prospect in this draft, we raise the bar. We help Keenum, Yates, and even Schaub to perform their jobs better, which in turn elevates everyone else on offense. If we can stay on the field, increase our scoring efficiency, we'll even make the defense look better. Looking for that guy in the 3rd... maybe we do, maybe we don't.

Use that pick on one of these QBs, maybe we do, maybe we don't. Looks like there are 3, maybe 4 OTs that grade as good or better than the three QBs at the top of the draft. 3 of them, much better. Again, my opinion but there will still be 3 QBs on the board in the 2nd that grade as well as those 3 QBs. There will be no OTs on the board that grade as well as the top 3 OTs in this draft. There will be no OTs on the board that grade as well as the top 3 QBs left in the second.
Click to expand...

Thanks. You made the same arguments I was about to make.

Let me put it this way, I'd rather see Jacksonville take the Clowney gamble and us take the sure thing that is Matthews or Robinson rather than the other way around. There will be QB's that aren't graded that far off the top three in the 2nd and maybe even the 3rd round.

None of us know what the heck O'Smithien are gonna do with that first pick.
I'm just explaining what makes the most sense to me.

2Q==
original.jpg

...but I've been wrong before.
 
thunderkyss said:
We had one of the best QBs in the league at that time as well.
Click to expand...

How about a little personal consistency here and you not try to fake that you thought Schaub was one of the best QBs in the league. You didn't and he wasn't. He was an above average QB who never really could have been argued to have been better than maybe, maybe 8th best in his best season. He was "good enough" to win with if the rest of the team was "good enough" as well.

He was taken in the 3rd round of the NFL draft. The Seahawks just won the Super Bowl with a QB they selected in the third round.
Click to expand...

The exception proves the rule. Look it up, learn it.

If the new CBA makes any position, save for special teams, a viable option with the #1 overall pick... then having two first round picks playing OT shouldn't be an issue.
Click to expand...

I am not against the concept entirely. Early in the process I was on board. But this particular year I think it is a bad choice. Last year, sign me up. Just like you are saying TB is just the best QB this year but really not that special, well that's Matthews. He might not ever even make it to LT.

This argument also applies to other positions. Why not go with one of Mack or Moseley who are exceptional?

Despite the new CBA and big boards supposed to be ordering based on talent there is still a bias to push QBs, OTs and DEs up the order. Now that RBs are out of fashion you don't see them appearing at the top nor do you see serious consideration being given to safeties or TEs. Moseley is arguably the best football player in this draft and as low a risk a player as you are ever going to come across. Let's pair him with Cushing.

The Texans, imo, instantly become one of the better teams in the league if we can find someone better than Duane Brown. & that's with our current crop of QBs.
Click to expand...

That's pure freaking delusion. Could it happen - sure. I could win the lottery tomorrow. You don't go spending all your money today planing on winning the lottery tomorrow. It's dumb.

Do you think there is a chance that we can find a guy in the third with any possibility of being a better LT than Duane Brown? If we draft a guy in the third, it's very well possible we miss like we did with Caldwell, the can't miss guard out of Alabama, or Ben Jones, the best Center prospect (or second/third best) out of Georgia.
Click to expand...

How'd we get down to the 3rd? DB isn't the issue. We need a RT. Frankly it is a different skill set and it is a bad plan to act like you are going to treat the two as interchangeable all the time. But to answer your question, there is less of a chance of failure at RT in the 2nd or 3rd than there is at QB.

If we draft the best OT prospect in this draft, we raise the bar. We help Keenum, Yates, and even Schaub to perform their jobs better, which in turn elevates everyone else on offense. If we can stay on the field, increase our scoring efficiency, we'll even make the defense look better. Looking for that guy in the 3rd... maybe we do, maybe we don't.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the trickle down football lecture. It's wonderful. Problem is it can be made about EVERY POSITION. In fact improvement at QB is the position the argument is best suited for.

Looks like there are 3, maybe 4 OTs that grade as good or better than the three QBs at the top of the draft. 3 of them, much better.
Click to expand...

In what universe? Seriously point to someone saying 4 OTs are better than all the QBs.

Again, my opinion but there will still be 3 QBs on the board in the 2nd that grade as well as those 3 QBs.
Click to expand...

Frankly all this says to me is disregard any attempt by TK to grade draft prospects. You don't even have a single wingnut analyst to support your whack grading of the QBs.
 
infantrycak said:
How about a little personal consistency here and you not try to fake that you thought Schaub was one of the best QBs in the league. You didn't and he wasn't. He was an above average QB who never really could have been argued to have been better than maybe, maybe 8th best in his best season. He was "good enough" to win with if the rest of the team was "good enough" as well.



The exception proves the rule. Look it up, learn it.



I am not against the concept entirely. Early in the process I was on board. But this particular year I think it is a bad choice. Last year, sign me up. Just like you are saying TB is just the best QB this year but really not that special, well that's Matthews. He might not ever even make it to LT.

This argument also applies to other positions. Why not go with one of Mack or Moseley who are exceptional?

Despite the new CBA and big boards supposed to be ordering based on talent there is still a bias to push QBs, OTs and DEs up the order. Now that RBs are out of fashion you don't see them appearing at the top nor do you see serious consideration being given to safeties or TEs. Moseley is arguably the best football player in this draft and as low a risk a player as you are ever going to come across. Let's pair him with Cushing.



That's pure freaking delusion. Could it happen - sure. I could win the lottery tomorrow. You don't go spending all your money today planing on winning the lottery tomorrow. It's dumb.



How'd we get down to the 3rd? DB isn't the issue. We need a RT. Frankly it is a different skill set and it is a bad plan to act like you are going to treat the two as interchangeable all the time. But to answer your question, there is less of a chance of failure at RT in the 2nd or 3rd than there is at QB.



Thanks for the trickle down football lecture. It's wonderful. Problem is it can be made about EVERY POSITION. In fact improvement at QB is the position the argument is best suited for.



In what universe? Seriously point to someone saying 4 OTs are better than all the QBs.



Frankly all this says to me is disregard any attempt by TK to grade draft prospects. You don't even have a single wingnut analyst to support your whack grading of the QBs.
Click to expand...

Don't feel so lonely. You're just like the rest of us in dismissing anyone who disagrees with us and often insulting them at the same time.
 
What about this Joel Bitonio kid out of Nevada. Impressed at the senior bowl, 6 4 315, played LT and had a good performance against Barr projects as a swing Ot OG
 
jradMIT said:
What about this Joel Bitonio kid out of Nevada. Impressed at the senior bowl, 6 4 315, played LT and had a good performance against Barr projects as a swing Ot OG
Click to expand...

Liked him as a sneaky pick... no longer sneaky. Creeping into the 3rd/2nd, I think. Bit narrow in the hip.
 
infantrycak said:
How about a little personal consistency here and you not try to fake that you thought Schaub was one of the best QBs in the league. You didn't and he wasn't. He was an above average QB who never really could have been argued to have been better than maybe, maybe 8th best in his best season. He was "good enough" to win with if the rest of the team was "good enough" as well.
Click to expand...

I've always said that 2009-2011 Matt Schaub could win a Super Bowl & the only thing separating him from the elite was the lack of wins in the play-offs, which during that time frame, weren't entirely his fault.

8th best = one of the best

infantrycak said:
I am not against the concept entirely. Early in the process I was on board. But this particular year I think it is a bad choice. Last year, sign me up. Just like you are saying TB is just the best QB this year but really not that special, well that's Matthews. He might not ever even make it to LT.

This argument also applies to other positions. Why not go with one of Mack or Moseley who are exceptional?
Click to expand...

Agreed. If you want to take Mosely, take Mosely, take Mack. This particular conversation was about OT... So I'm talking about OT.

infantrycak said:
Despite the new CBA and big boards supposed to be ordering based on talent there is still a bias to push QBs, OTs and DEs up the order. Now that RBs are out of fashion you don't see them appearing at the top nor do you see serious consideration being given to safeties or TEs. Moseley is arguably the best football player in this draft and as low a risk a player as you are ever going to come across. Let's pair him with Cushing.
Click to expand...

Again, what thread are you posting in? The ILB/OLB thread or the OT.. OG thread?

Focus counselor.

infantrycak said:
That's pure freaking delusion. Could it happen - sure. I could win the lottery tomorrow. You don't go spending all your money today planing on winning the lottery tomorrow. It's dumb.
Click to expand...

Delusional? It's the shoot for the moon theory.

[IMGwidthsize=300]http://data1.whicdn.com/images/58148009/large.jpg[/IMG]

In this context I'm saying if we try to improve the top of our roster, the bottom will naturally get better as a side product. If we continue to try to improve the bottom of our roster, we'll forever be mired in mediocrity. I gave two examples where we missed on 3rd round Offensive linemen. We've got more examples where we've missed on 2nd round pass rushers, late round WR#2. etc...

The draft is a crap shoot, we all know that. Don't twist this into me saying something I'm not.

You're telling me to learn the exception to the rule thing, after you are telling ObsiWan that Winston made our OL one of the best in the league. & the coaches who made that happen are no longer here. In their place, we've got a crew of first time NFL position coaches.

infantrycak said:
How'd we get down to the 3rd? DB isn't the issue. We need a RT.
Click to expand...

What we need is to get better across the board. If you're telling me Duane Brown can't play RT, fine. Let's leave it at that.

infantrycak said:
Thanks for the trickle down football lecture. It's wonderful. Problem is it can be made about EVERY POSITION. In fact improvement at QB is the position the argument is best suited for.
Click to expand...

What thread are we in? Is this the QB thread or the OT... OG thread?

infantrycak said:
In what universe? Seriously point to someone saying 4 OTs are better than all the QBs.
Click to expand...

-->Me<--

infantrycak said:
Frankly all this says to me is disregard any attempt by TK to grade draft prospects. You don't even have a single wingnut analyst to support your whack grading of the QBs.
Click to expand...


Frankly this says to me infantrycak is a sheep. He makes no attempt to analyze players on his own. If you disagree with Mayock, Kiper, McShay, et. al.... he don't want to hear it.

Greg Roginson, Taylor Lewan, Jake Matthews, Cyrus Kouandijo, & Zack Martin are closer to the protoypical franchise LT than any of the three QBs are to the prototypical QB. Kouandijo & Martin are definitely questionable at this time.
 
thunderkyss said:
...Greg Roginson, Taylor Lewan, Jake Matthews, Cyrus Kouandijo, & Zack Martin are closer to the protoypical franchise LT than any of the three QBs are to the prototypical QB. Kouandijo & Martin are definitely questionable at this time.
Click to expand...

You're just a different cat so I'm not going to touch the rest of your post. I don't necessarily agree or disagree with it. It's just your opinion and it's been discussed at length.

I will touch this part, because you're not as right as you think you are.

Manziel is not prototypical in any way. Bridgewater is not prototypical size but he has the prototypical mental makeup for the next level. Bortles is prototypical size but his game is raw. So you're correct in saying that the top QBs are not very close to prototypical as a group.

But neither are the top OL. Robinson has all the physical tools and will likely be a franchise LT, but he played more like a RT in college. Lewan is a RT. Matthews is a RT/OG, and so is Martin. Kouandijo has LT potential but he will be starting off on the right side as well.
 
bah007 said:
You're just a different cat so I'm not going to touch the rest of your post. I don't necessarily agree or disagree with it. It's just your opinion and it's been discussed at length.

I will touch this part, because you're not as right as you think you are.

Manziel is not prototypical in any way. Bridgewater is not prototypical size but he has the prototypical mental makeup for the next level. Bortles is prototypical size but his game is raw. So you're correct in saying that the top QBs are not very close to prototypical as a group.

But neither are the top OL. Robinson has all the physical tools and will likely be a franchise LT, but he played more like a RT in college. Lewan is a RT. Matthews is a RT/OG, and so is Martin. Kouandijo has LT potential but he will be starting off on the right side as well.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback. I hear what you're saying. A lot of the things you mentioned had a lot to do with the situation they were in. We don't know, at least I don't, how they will respond to the situation they will be put in after the draft.

We're talking about "prospects" They're going to receive coaching at the next level to add to their experience before the draft that will decide what they are going to be. My comment has more to do with size & experience. All these guys have the right size, played in major conferences for major programs, & played well at the position we're talking about.

None of the top three QBs have all three.

We're watching the combine now, which will tell us how well they've developed the individual tools to be able to do what will be asked of them at the next level (I'm still talking about the OTs here). I'm not totally disregarding what they did on the field, very likely the combine will tell us if what you've observed is the best we can expect from these guys.
 
Playoffs said:
Spreadsheet for OL results here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...zhPckREX3NQd0dQTGc&f=true&noheader=true&gid=8

Josh Norris &#8207;@JoshNorris
Click to expand...

Just like Brennan Williams initially (http://www.battleredblog.com/2013/9/6/4701284/houston-texans-injuries-david-quessenberry-and-brennan-williams-have) Richardson has been misreported to have suffered a "MICROFRACTURE injury of the knee (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1882593-tennessee-football-why-vols-wont-miss-tiny-richardson-too-much-in-2014)," there is no such medical term assigned to an INJURY.........this is only a medical term assigned to a type of SURGERY. Williams' case was later correctly described as him undergoing "microfracture surgery(http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/8521/brennan-williams)." As I've posted with regards to Williams, prognosis after such surgery, which is performed to address CARTILAGE damage NOT bone FRACTURE, is seldom positive.
 
Do prototypes even matter anymore? The most prototypical 4-3 DE to come out in a decade is available and people want to move him to OLB.
 
Taylor Lewan is kinda blowing it up in the drills. I need to go back and watch his interview to see for myself how "different" it was/was not.
 
Lucky said:
So Richardson was able to play all year, and run his 40s at the combine with a knee injury? Crazy.
Click to expand...

My guess is that Richardson is scheduled to have microfracture for a knee injury that he played with last season. Microfracture surgery is performed for an area of joint surface denuded of cartilage resulting in exposed bone. If this has occurred on both opposing surfaces of the knee joint, it is what is referred to as "bone-on-bone." The longer a player has played with denuding on one surface, the greater the chance that the harder surface of the exposed bone will also grind down the opposing softer cartilage surface to underlying bone.........."bone on bone."
 
thunderkyss said:
Greg Roginson, Taylor Lewan, Jake Matthews, Cyrus Kouandijo, & Zack Martin are closer to the protoypical franchise LT than any of the three QBs are to the prototypical QB. Kouandijo & Martin are definitely questionable at this time.
Click to expand...
Let's say that's true. There have been 11 OTs selected in the top 5 over the past 10 drafts. Here's the list:

2013 1 1 Eric Fisher OL KAN
2013 1 2 Luke Joeckel OL JAX
2013 1 4 Lane Johnson OL PHI
2012 1 4 Matt Kalil OL MIN
2010 1 4 Trent Williams T WAS
2009 1 2 Jason Smith T STL
2008 1 1 Jake Long T MIA
2007 1 3 Joe Thomas T CLE
2007 1 5 Levi Brown T ARI
2006 1 4 D'Brickashaw Ferguson T NYJ
2004 1 2 Robert Gallery T Oak

Some very good, some good, some OK, and a couple of busts. But, none have really been difference makers in helping their teams become a contender. Mainly because, they didn't have a top QB to block for. I think Robinson or Matthews could be very good, to excellent LTs. But if they don't have a good QB to block for, their ability is wasted.

Now this is really gonna bake your noodle. I will say that over the past 7 years, you can often find an OT just about as good in the late 1st/early 2nd or later as you can find in the top 5.

2012 Matt Kahil (4) - Cordy Glenn (41)
2010 Trent Williams (4) - Jared Veldheer (69)
2009 Jason Smith (2) - Phil Loadholt (54)/ Sebastian Vollmer (58)/Others
2008 Jake Long (1) - Duane Brown (26)
2007 Joe Thomas (3) - Joe Staley (28)

To top it off, this is a deep OT class. So, there should still be quality OTs, especially those more suited to RT, available at 2-1. If you have a team that already has a QB (not the Texans), then a Robinson or Matthews might make sense. Maybe. The Texans don't have that QB. Yet.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/crd/2007_draft.htm
 
Lewan looks great in shorts. I'll have to rewatch any of his tape that I can find. He didn't look this athletic to me during games.
 
Xavier Su'a-Filo another who had a good day and it showed on tape.

Seantrel Henderson had a good day but his tape showed holes.

Cyrus Kouandjio had not so great day but tape shows otherwise.

Lewan sounds fine to me in this NFL.com interview, so I'm not so sure about earlier reports from the twitterverse about his questionable podium responses. Will have to chase that down.
 
Lucky said:
Let's say that's true. There have been 11 OTs selected in the top 5 over the past 10 drafts. Here's the list:


To top it off, this is a deep OT class. So, there should still be quality OTs, especially those more suited to RT, available at 2-1. If you have a team that already has a QB (not the Texans), then a Robinson or Matthews might make sense. Maybe. The Texans don't have that QB. Yet.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/crd/2007_draft.htm
Click to expand...

To say this is a deep OT class & we can find a comparable prospect in the second... I don't have an issue with that. It's the kind of mindset I would like for the Texans to take into the draft.

What I don't want is for the Texans to think, "Well, we only need a RT, let's not look at the best of the best & focus on these guys over here."

I'd rather they look at it saying, "I need a CB, a safety, a QB, a pass rusher, an OT, & a WR. How can we get the best possible talents for each position. There's only one "A+" CB in this draft, 5 "A+" OTs, 4 "B" safeties, 6 "A" QBs, 3 "A+" pass rushers, etc... We can get that A+ CB with the first pick & still get an A+ OT, or A QB with the next pick.

I don't want them to think, "Well, we need a QB, so let's take the best A QB out there."

& it's not like I'm saying let's use our 1st on an OT..... it was brought up by one member, then marginalized by another. I felt the idea wasn't as far fetched as the marginalizing member made it out to be. I started this thread saying:
thunderkyss said:
So assuming we take a QB with that first pick.... or a DE, who should we be looking for on the offensive line. I want a guard & a tackle. If you're high on Quessenbery, that's cool, what OT do you think will be there in the 6th, 7th, UD....

Is there a guard with high upside that can be had in the 3rd or 4th? I'm good with using a second... just need to know who's out there, who's worth checking out.
Click to expand...
 
bah007 said:
Lewan looks great in shorts. I'll have to rewatch any of his tape that I can find. He didn't look this athletic to me during games.
Click to expand...

I saw a game of his where I wasn't really intending to look at him, I was looking at someone else, and I kept coming back to him because I thought he was doing a really good job.

Can't remember which game it was.
 
Playoffs said:
Cyrus Kouandjio had not so great day but tape shows otherwise.
Click to expand...

Ian Rapoport &#8207;@RapSheet
Bad news for #Bama OT Cyrus Kouandjio. I’m told several teams have failed him on his physical. Arthritic knee from failed surgery. “Ugly.”
Click to expand...

Matt Miller &#8207;@nfldraftscout
I have late 1st round grade on Cyrus Kouandjio, but no way to tell if knee issue is genuinely something teams are worried about.
Click to expand...

Josh Norris &#8207;@JoshNorris
Re: Kouandjio RT @brentsobleski: Genetic. Brother has chronic bad knees
Click to expand...

Greg Gabriel &#8207;@greggabe
WAY to early to say Kouandjio drops a lot because of knee. Every team will look at it differently. He didn't miss time and that's important

Louis Delmas also flunked some physicals because of arthritic knees. He went at top of 2nd and became a top NFL safety
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Dane Brugler &#8207;@dpbrugler
Lucas: Officially a stress fracture in his left foot

Bad news for OT Cornelius Lucas. Foot injury, out of the NFL Combine, 6-8 week rehab schedule
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
thunderkyss said:
To say this is a deep OT class & we can find a comparable prospect in the second... I don't have an issue with that. It's the kind of mindset I would like for the Texans to take into the draft.

What I don't want is for the Texans to think, "Well, we only need a RT, let's not look at the best of the best & focus on these guys over here."

I'd rather they look at it saying, "I need a CB, a safety, a QB, a pass rusher, an OT, & a WR. How can we get the best possible talents for each position. There's only one "A+" CB in this draft, 5 "A+" OTs, 4 "B" safeties, 6 "A" QBs, 3 "A+" pass rushers, etc... We can get that A+ CB with the first pick & still get an A+ OT, or A QB with the next pick.

I don't want them to think, "Well, we need a QB, so let's take the best A QB out there."

& it's not like I'm saying let's use our 1st on an OT..... it was brought up by one member, then marginalized by another. I felt the idea wasn't as far fetched as the marginalizing member made it out to be. I started this thread saying:
Click to expand...

Good strategy overall but one has to wonder how those needs are prioritized. Do they think that CB is a greater need than OT. Do they think that QB is a greater need than pass rusher or CB or OT? That prioritization will determine how we spend our picks; when we can gamble that the CB or OT we need will be there if we skip him and go QB or pass rusher. Further, when we "gamble" like that where can we afford to miss out? Will it hurt more to miss on a top tier OT at the expense of grabbing a top tier pass rusher. Will it hurt more to grab one of the few top tier CBs knowing that we'll have to settle for a 2nd tier QB?
I don't know.
Curious to see how other folks rank our needs and how much leeway they think there is at each position of need.
YOu know I've been singing the song of Matthews at 1-1. Maybe we can get away with a 2nd tier OT if we go Clowney or some QB at that spot.
 
Playoffs said:
Dane Brugler &#8207;@dpbrugler
Click to expand...
Josh Norris &#8207;@JoshNorris
Quote:
Re: Kouandjio RT @brentsobleski: Genetic. Brother has chronic bad knees
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

His brother has suffered through multiple knee injuries. I found that he was diagnosed as having problems related to patellar subluxation. It would be quite unusual to see this be diagnosed as "congenital" form so late. These are usually diagnosed before 6-7 years old and addressed surgically quickly before it can lead to significant adulthood problems. You can see this condition develop secondarily in knock-kneed adults that have put on large amounts of weight. Arie definitely looks knock-keed.

6_1016462.jpg
 
Short shuttle great OL drill...

Ikard, Gabe 4.37

Leno Jr., Charles 4.40
Bitonio, Joel 4.44
Su'a-Filo, Xavier 4.44
Paradis, Matthew 4.46
Groy, Ryan 4.47
Matthews, Jake 4.47
Urschel, John 4.47
Lewan, Taylor 4.49

James, Ja'Wuan 4.56
Schofield, Michael 4.57
Martin, Zack 4.59

Boffeli, Conor 4.61
Richburg, Weston 4.63
Stone, James 4.63
Johnson, Wesley 4.64
Mewhort, Jack 4.64
Swanson, Travis 4.65
Bodine, Russell 4.66
Britt, Justin 4.69

Larsen, Tyler 4.70
Turner, Billy 4.71
Henderson, Seantrel 4.77
Jackson, Gabe 4.78

Edwards, Kadeem 4.82
Halapio, Jon 4.83
Richardson, Cyril 4.83
Thomas, Brandon 4.83
Kouandjio, Cyrus 4.84
Feiler, Matt 4.86
Harrison, Jonotthan 4.86
Robinson, Greg 4.86
Yankey, David 4.86
Dozier, Dakota 4.89

Moses, Morgan 4.95

Fleming, Cameron 5.00

Fulton, Zach 5.16
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top