TexansFTW
Veteran
Sounds like a Doctor trying to get his coworkers back to me.
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Ot... Og
- Thread starter thunderkyss
- Start date
Sounds like a Doctor trying to get his coworkers back to me.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Here is an article that explains the medical/orthopedic evaluation of NFL Combine players. A myriad of physicians, surgeons and trainers are involved. It is unlikely that most if not all are wrong............and one sole voice in the wilderness is not. Isn't Andrews the same Andrews that allowed an RGIII who through any non-medical eyes would have put the QB on crutches or on a gurney close to the beginning of the game?.........instead of letting him limp around helplessly until he blew out his knee ?
And for those of you that may not have access to this information, be aware that the operating surgeon Dr. Lyle Cain studied under Dr. Andrews. In fact, he was Andrews personal Fellow prior to going into formal practice at............where else, but the Andrews Sports Medicine & Orthopaedic Center in Alabama, where to date he maintains his practice.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Ha!
I figured that would get your dander up.
I may sound calm now. But in my head I've already killed you 3 times now!
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
I may sound calm now. But in my head I've already killed you 3 times now!
Now, now, let's not forget about Hippocrates:
Or better Geneva...
No killing for you, Doc.
Neither one of those guys were Texans fansNow, now, let's not forget about Hippocrates:
Or better Geneva...
No killing for you, Doc.
I'd watch my back if i were you, Playoffs
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
I liked him last year but he didn't declare eligibility. When I look at his measurables, he's got great numbers with the exception of height. I really like Thomas, so how important is height to the OT position? He could be the answer at LG or RT.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Tackles need to be more athletically built than guards as they need to deal with speedy pass rushers and often have to play in space. Being taller helps to distribute their weight better, and generally, as "longer" athletes, better able to get their hands on pass rushers first. Tackles that are too tall (over 6'6") can become awkward, prone to waist bending or lunging at rushers. They are also more difficult for QBs to throw over or around. Arm length as a rule is proportional to height and longer arms are as a rule advantageous because they allow an offensive lineman to get his hands on an opponent first, generally allowing him to more easily gain control of his defensive opponent.
The thing about Thomas is his height/weight is more classic of an OG. BUT, his arms are unusually disproportionately long to his height which allows his reasonable consideration as an OT, especially RT.
The assessment of his athleticism, in the end, will likely lead to final determination of his position in the NFL.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
MMQB: Measuring Beyond Girth
Offensive linemen are overlooked by everyone except the coaches who grade them each week-and those marks are the difference between lasting in the NFL and finding a new career. For wide bodies, there’s little room for error
Offensive linemen are overlooked by everyone except the coaches who grade them each week-and those marks are the difference between lasting in the NFL and finding a new career. For wide bodies, there’s little room for error
TexansFTW
Veteran
And for those of you that may not have access to this information, be aware that the operating surgeon Dr. Lyle Cain studied under Dr. Andrews. In fact, he was Andrews personal Fellow prior to going into formal practice at............where else, but the Andrews Sports Medicine & Orthopaedic Center in Alabama, where to date he maintains his practice.
Called it.
*pat myself on back gif*
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Yes you did!
How much would you guys pay for a competent starting RT? We were paying Eric Winston $5m/yr before we kicked him to the curb. Personally I didn't have a problem with that price tag, my issue was that we were getting a mistake prone, lead footed, too smart for his own good, brute who struggled against speed rushers for that price.
But I'd have no problem paying a RT $5M/yr, especially since our LT did us a solid & we're paying less than $10M/yr for a franchise LT.
Last year, Eric Fisher signed a 5 year fully guaranteed $22M contract. That's only 4.42M/yr.
For that kind of money, I wouldn't have a problem starting Robinson on the right side for two or three years..... Robinson may not like it, but this is a business. If he still looks like a promising OT in the league, I'll trade him, maybe I'll get a late first for a ready to start LT.... the kind that never hits FA. Maybe I'll only get an early 2nd.
On the other hand, maybe something happens to Brown, maybe it's a knee, maybe it's a hip, maybe it's turf toe & he can't play at an elite level anymore.. remember we're talking about two or three years from now playing the most violent sport in the world against the best of the best. We can move him to the right side, we can extend his contract, we can even trade him to a team desperate for a LT... & move Robinson to the left side.
Think about it. 5 year fully guaranteed.... that's pay as you go. Very trade friendly contract.
But I'd have no problem paying a RT $5M/yr, especially since our LT did us a solid & we're paying less than $10M/yr for a franchise LT.
Last year, Eric Fisher signed a 5 year fully guaranteed $22M contract. That's only 4.42M/yr.
For that kind of money, I wouldn't have a problem starting Robinson on the right side for two or three years..... Robinson may not like it, but this is a business. If he still looks like a promising OT in the league, I'll trade him, maybe I'll get a late first for a ready to start LT.... the kind that never hits FA. Maybe I'll only get an early 2nd.
On the other hand, maybe something happens to Brown, maybe it's a knee, maybe it's a hip, maybe it's turf toe & he can't play at an elite level anymore.. remember we're talking about two or three years from now playing the most violent sport in the world against the best of the best. We can move him to the right side, we can extend his contract, we can even trade him to a team desperate for a LT... & move Robinson to the left side.
Think about it. 5 year fully guaranteed.... that's pay as you go. Very trade friendly contract.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Well comparing rookie contracts is apples to oranges. As a market value non-rookie deal I agree up to $5 mil/yr is fine for a top 7 RT.
Kinda like taking advantage of outstanding QB play from guys on rookie contracts??
Like I said, it's a business. What used to cost $10M/yr is now available to us for half the cost. Apples & oranges, I don't really care as long as it protects my QB.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Gosder Cherilus contract is an apple to apple RT comparison and a barometer agents will use in negotiation for RT's 2nd contract.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/gosder-cherilus/
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I didn't discount getting benefit of rookie contracts. Just saying that is not steady state. So a long term estimate of what is reasonable to pay at RT shouldn't be based on rookie contracts. If you get someone below normal because of a rookie contract, great.
TexansFTW
Veteran
You mention trading quite a bit, but this is not a real viable option. Trading offensive tackles doesn't happen every day and when it does it's generally teams in complete disarray like the Jags.
Oh and what the Jags got when they traded Eugene Monroe... a 4th and a 5th round pick. He was a 1st round (#8 overall pick) just 4 years before that. He never misses games and is a very good LT, constantly grading out among the better tackles in PFF rankings. And the Ravens were desperate!
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on...de-lt-eugene-monroe-to-ravens-fro-draft-picks
What's your opinion on Billy Turner-OT from North Dakota St.? From what I read he's got the size, good measurables, and good/decent Combine drill numbers. From what I read he's got good potential and minor flaws that are coachable, but it also concerns me that he's only faced small school competition.
If you were to wait til the 4th round for an OT who would you be targeting down there? I'm hoping to wait to fill OT in the 4th so that we can target a couple of defensive studs in the 2nd and 3rd. It does worry me though to wait that long for an OT, because I want someone good enough to protect our new QB. JaWaun James, James Hurst, Joel Bitonio, Cameron Fleming all come to mind.
bah007
Hall of Fame
I like Turner a lot. He needs development but he has big time potential. He's a very good athlete moving forward and to the side but he is uncoordinated and sloppy moving backward. Probably means he will be a RT only, but that's what we're looking for. He needs some technique work but that's to be expected. Competition is a worry but he played very well in their upset win over Kansas St, so he has good tape against a good opponent.
These are the OTs I'm looking at in regards to the Texans:
1 - Greg Robinson
2 - Morgan Moses, Antonio Richardson
3 - JuWaun James, Joel Bitonio, James Hurst
4 - Billy Turner
5 - Michael Schofield
6 - Matt Patchan
7 - Austin Wentworth
I heard former Cowboys OL coach Wylie on Sirius the other day and he said Turner has as much ability as any OT in this draft. I don't necessarily agree with this because Robinson is one of the most athletic OT's I've seen since Munoz.
bah007
Hall of Fame
Yea I don't agree with that either. His potential is sky high but Robinson is in a different category.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a team take Turner as early as the 2nd round. He could definitely be a long term solution at RT for somebody.
@Bah007, what do you think of a guy like Travis Swanson-C from Arkansas if we were to take him in the middle rounds as a guy to be depth at OG and possibly our future C once Myers leaves which could be next year. Swanson has the size to play OG, very large for a C, and I'm not seeing alot from Ben Jones the past couple years.
bah007
Hall of Fame
I've got Swanson as a late 3rd round grade. I think he's a pure center. Intelligent and capable. He's not enough of a mauler to play RG (despite his size he gets pushed around) and I don't think he is athletic enough to play LG (his hip, knee, and ankle flexibility appears to be very poor).
I think Jones makes a better LG and I also had him rated higher coming out of college.
With what you have in mind I would look at Marcus Martin at 3-1 or Russell Bodine at 4-1. Both are NFL starting C caliber, IMO. Martin can play either guard position while he waits to take over at C. Bodine would be solid depth behind Brooks at RG while he waits.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
oh.
And then there's that.
I guess we know who's going to fall because of character concerns this year.
And then there's that.
I guess we know who's going to fall because of character concerns this year.
I don't know. He mentioned it at the combine, so he's kinda in front of it. We'll have to see what the outcome of the trial is... or better yet, what the people who know him think.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
The way he talked about it at the Combine didn't make it sound like he'd actually end up in court with a possibility of jail time. At least, it didn't to me at the time.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Definitely a disconnect there in how he presents vs. this and other backstories about him. Some teams just won't care.
bah007
Hall of Fame
Fool me once shame on me, fool me twice...
This is the same guy who was accused of threating a girl who said that she was raped by Lewan's roommate. I believe he was also suspended for a dirty play last year too.
Looks like he's getting a lot of practice trying to explain away his behavior. PASS!
This is the same guy who was accused of threating a girl who said that she was raped by Lewan's roommate. I believe he was also suspended for a dirty play last year too.
Looks like he's getting a lot of practice trying to explain away his behavior. PASS!
bah007
Hall of Fame
I don't expect Groy or Norwell to stick in the league. Linder is JAG. I really like Long. If he can stay healthy he has the skills to be a NFL starter.
I like aggressive OL.
Old time Raiders style.
Mean and slightly deranged is a good attribute for a NFL OL.
What does any of this have to do with Lewan as a football player? If he falls in the draft some team is going to get a heck of a football player cheap.
^^^^
This
Except I expect Groy/Linder to be Steve Schilling type players. Guys that hang around a few yrs as fringe backup type OL.
bah007
Hall of Fame
You seem to have developed an obsession with players that have behavioral problems. Lewan is a really good football player, but he has a pattern of behavior that, quite frankly, reminds me of Richie Incognito.
The guy is a head case, a fake tough guy, and considered by most Michigan fans to be the worst team captain in school history.
Right now, his off field troubles are only a distraction. If he keeps it up it could become a problem. A pattern is developing. I don't want to deal with that. I'll pass and let someone else have him, for better or worse.
I just want the most talented players on my team (if I owned a team and was truly committed to winning) Let the coaches deal with the problem children?
You never did answer which team had the most suspensions last yr? Until the Texans org stop playing checkers when the best teams are playing chess you can only expect marginal improvements. (Some playoff teams/followed in the cycle by 2-14 teams.)
We both want the same things, I just look and see how the successful teams have built their teams and don't see the Texans following that model at all. We just have a difference in opinion on how teams should be built. (Differences are good,
I've said the same thing since 2006 and was told by Texan Bill that the team would never be built the way I wanted it to be built. I countered with well they will never have a winning org. I'm still waiting to be proven wrong.
bah007
Hall of Fame
No I didn't answer it. Because I'm not going to do research for your argument. If you have a point you can do your own research and provide it as evidence to back up your assertion. There is nothing out there that can prove that having more law breakers provides more wins.
We all want the most talented players. But pure talent isn't the only thing that matters. This has been shown time and time again. There are other factors. And it's going to be hard to help the team if you are being suspended or cut due to behavioral problems. NFL coaches aren't babysitters. If Lewan truly wants to have a successful pro career he can get his own head out of his own ass.
And if Lewan was the worst team captain in Michigan's history then it becomes an on field issue. How you associate with your teammates is a big deal, on the field and in the locker room. And this loser had to room with the punter because nobody else on the team wanted to be his roommate.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Pretty sure he was thinking Seahawks but that is incorrect. Three teams were tied for most suspensions in 2013 - Jags, Rams, Redskins. The Seahawks had 2 players suspended and they just let one of those, Browner, walk as a FA.
Sooo in the past eight years (Rick Smith era) how many times has "old time Raider's style" taken the Raiders to the playoffs.
We've been twice.
That's why I said old time.
Stabler/Matuzak/Alzado/Plunkett etc.... These guys were in trouble all of the time but came to play on Sundays. 80's Cowgirls?
People don't want to admit that some not so good people play NFL football and win a lot doing it.
For instance Marshawn Lynch was a leader on the Seahawks a SB winner. He could've been a Texan for a 4th rd pick. Do I want him to date my daughter (If I had 1) he** no. But would I love to see him carry the ball for the Texans next yr? You bet,
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
Leaning towards Robinson in the first, Yankey in the second, QB in the 3rd, then worry about defense with the other picks.
I can get behind that.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
With his history of multiple weed suspensions, he seems to have no problem with screwing himself and his teammates.......all of this along with back surgery that has not really been publicized........makes this move just another nail in his draft position.
I'm sure he was on our radar. Very versitile player. Maybe he will far far enough to where we can steal him. I'd take a flyer for a year on his talent in the 4th.
I seriously doubt he has a position now. As deep as this draft is I wouldn't spend anything lower than the very last pick on him.
This really sucks, I like'd this guy alot, very versatile O-lineman. He'll have to sit out this next season and I think the 4th is still to early, maybe grab him with one of our 6th round picks and stash him on IR for a year.
unless we were going to take him with our second pick I doubt we had a chance to get him. This might be a blessing for us anyway. You are right about the 4th being to high. there is just to much talent in this draft. I would consider a 5th but would defiantly take him with a 6th.