Good to know. Interviewing people isn't a strength of mine. I'm terrible at it. (I'm a sucker with a soft heart)
Russell Wilson says hi.
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Teddy Bridgewater
- Thread starter revan
- Start date
Good to know. Interviewing people isn't a strength of mine. I'm terrible at it. (I'm a sucker with a soft heart)
Russell Wilson says hi.
Yeah , it morphed into a numbers game from an illustrative tool. The original post is in the Clowney thread.
Here's the original post so you can get the proper context (then you can see where it ran to).
Considering how important the QB position is , I'd argue that an 85-87 QB is more valuable than a 95 at just about any other position , including DE. You can scheme to nullify him , or simply run away from him .... Same for a DB or LBer. WR you double team .... OL you attack elsewhere.
Clowney's statistics this season are a very good example of scheming to take away a guy - 3.5 sacks. Teams nullified him in general.
Its really difficult to scheme to hide a weak QB or stop a top tier QB. Both require a team effort with multiple moving parts.
The Texans are a perfect example of not being able to hide poor QB play .... 2-14.
Question for me is still the same - Is there a QB in this draft that grades out that well.If there is , I take that QB. If there isn't , I take the highest rated player (That wouldn't be Clowney either).
But .... your bottom paragraph says exactly what I was getting at in with the original thought. I think its pretty much indisputable.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
I like opinions and I don't try to change anyone,but let's at least be truthful. You don't ned a great defense to win a sb. If you use this yr, there have half the sb winners with a great defense.Colts,saints,ravens,giants(2 times) are teams who won without great defense. So this whole great defense is 50/50 at best. In the same span, we've had eli(2), ben(2),peyton,rodgers,and flacco won superbowls. Guess what? All were 1st rd draft picks. The guy who won in those 10yrs were brady(6th),bres(32),and wilson this yr. So in 10 yr, 7 had 1st rd qbs and only 5 had top 10 defense. So again, what were you saying about great defense and late rd qbs? I'll wait.
yup... that's about right, all made up.
I wish I could put all my posts together, so everything I said can be seen at one time. However, I agree with you 100% & said as much in another post. Right now, these QBs are grouped very closely together for me. 6 of them carry a similar grade based on what I know right now. The Texans have will have more access to these kids than I ever will, they'll talk to people who've worked with these kids & helped form them into the peopl they are today.
Surely, that information will separate one (or more) from the others.
In the 2012 draft, the Seattle Seahawks drafted
Are we saying they should have drafted Russell Wilson in the first if he was graded as a possible starter (since the number system is too complicated for some people)?
I'm not saying they had him graded as a possible starter. They probably graded him as a good back up since he's too short to be a starter. They weren't going to draft a QB in the first anyway after paying Matt Flynn.
But still, right now. Knowing what you know (& let's say no one else knows what you know) would you have drafted differently? On his own, I guarantee you Bruce Irvin didn't have the same impact that Russell Wilson did, neither did Bobby Wagner. But that defense (which wouldn't be the same without either of them) did.
Now this is not a "we can draft a franchise QB in the 3rd round" rant, I'm not saying that.
But imagine Seattle didn't sign Flynn, would they have drafted Weeden because they needed a QB? Or Osweiler in the first since they're more likely to hit on a franchise QB by drafting one in the first?
Or would they have been better off, getting an elite player in Bruce Irvin, since several "similarly" graded QBs are still on the board (Osweiler, Wilson, Foles, Cousins)?
Then in the second round should they have taken Osweiler/Weeden/Wilson there & miss on Bobby Wagner when Osweiler, Wilson, Foles, & Cousins are still on the board?
I don't think so. Trust your board.
- Bruce Irvin
- Bobby Wagner
- Russell Wilson
Are we saying they should have drafted Russell Wilson in the first if he was graded as a possible starter (since the number system is too complicated for some people)?
I'm not saying they had him graded as a possible starter. They probably graded him as a good back up since he's too short to be a starter. They weren't going to draft a QB in the first anyway after paying Matt Flynn.
But still, right now. Knowing what you know (& let's say no one else knows what you know) would you have drafted differently? On his own, I guarantee you Bruce Irvin didn't have the same impact that Russell Wilson did, neither did Bobby Wagner. But that defense (which wouldn't be the same without either of them) did.
Now this is not a "we can draft a franchise QB in the 3rd round" rant, I'm not saying that.
But imagine Seattle didn't sign Flynn, would they have drafted Weeden because they needed a QB? Or Osweiler in the first since they're more likely to hit on a franchise QB by drafting one in the first?
Or would they have been better off, getting an elite player in Bruce Irvin, since several "similarly" graded QBs are still on the board (Osweiler, Wilson, Foles, Cousins)?
Then in the second round should they have taken Osweiler/Weeden/Wilson there & miss on Bobby Wagner when Osweiler, Wilson, Foles, & Cousins are still on the board?
I don't think so. Trust your board.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
TK, u make solids points and I'm replying not knowing if I'm agreeing or disagreing. I think the point is getting the correct players. I mean all this mocks on this board wants the texans to trade with cleveland. Well 2 yrs ago Indy was in the same boat. My argument isnt that TB or whomever the qb might be luck,but I think people are also having short term memory loss also. In that draft,similar to the manning draft,there was another more physically gifted player than Luck. RG3 had more upside than luck,just as leaf had more than manning. Now,the leaf-manning thing played out like parachute pants from the 80s,but the rg3-luck-wilson book is still active a being written.
Think about who the colts could've drafted had they moved down and drafted richardson or kalil ,the extra 1st could've been anyone,the 2nd rd pick could've been anyone and the other picks would've gotten. I mean,the breaking point between cleveland in the rg3 trade was the 2nd rd pick in the draft everything else was the same. Would colts be a playoff team with the kind of haul st louis got? St Louis has a good core,but they're missing the main ingredient. Meanwhile,if rg3 returns to form,they will be in the playoffs much sooner than the rams. Hell last yr the redskins went to playoffs with that same 31 st ranked defense.
It really doesn't matter as long as the guy is an impactful player.
Think about who the colts could've drafted had they moved down and drafted richardson or kalil ,the extra 1st could've been anyone,the 2nd rd pick could've been anyone and the other picks would've gotten. I mean,the breaking point between cleveland in the rg3 trade was the 2nd rd pick in the draft everything else was the same. Would colts be a playoff team with the kind of haul st louis got? St Louis has a good core,but they're missing the main ingredient. Meanwhile,if rg3 returns to form,they will be in the playoffs much sooner than the rams. Hell last yr the redskins went to playoffs with that same 31 st ranked defense.
It really doesn't matter as long as the guy is an impactful player.
Blake
MMQB
Now THAT is funny.
My personal opinion, if you're convinced there's a guy who is highly likely to be a franchise player..... Luck, Rivers, even a Sam Bradford (at the time of the draft)..... you couldn't give me enough to trade unless I already had a franchise guy.
Which is totally different, at least from my perspective here. Some folks are convinced Bridgewater is a franchise guy. A lot of his intangibles come up... his drive, study habits, football IQ, etc... which I'm not sold on. Those are the things I believe teams will have better access to gauge than I ever will. If Bridgewater is selected #1 overall.... or Johnny, or Bortles, or "you know who" I'll have to believe it is something the Texans learned, that I can't see on youtube.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
So no matter how universally reported, because you can't see him studying you doubt it's true?
Stories seem to come up about the "best QB prospect" all the time. I take those with a grain of salt. You can put how ever much weight on it you wish.
& it's not so much that I doubt it's true, but I've read similar stories about other QBs.
Tell me why a guy would chose to go to Louisville when he could have gone to Florida or Miami?
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Randy Shannon got fired so he opted out of Miami . Strong recruited him for Florida and moved on to Louisville and TB followed him .
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
Well stated Earl. I find it interesting too that of those two "better programs" he could have gone to were teams he beat in post-season play in back to back years, upsetting 4th ranking Florida last year and dismantling Miami this year. One of the main knocks on him is his level of competition, well he beat both these teams in bowl games.
But I think MOST importantly is he very likely was better coached and is more prepared to succeed at the professional level after playing in Strong's offense for 3 years. SEC and ACC would look better on paper, but he may not have been as well prepared to start day 1 for the Texans.
I believe he also stated this in an interview before. Graduating high school early so he could go to Louisville to give him a leg up on winning the QB battle, and that he thought the style of offense would prepare him better to succeed in the pros, and that he wanted to graduate a year early from college and go pro. This is a smart driven dude.
TexansFTW
Veteran
Read the article about the poster boards with pictures on the previous page.
That's true.
If you've ever watched a college football game you see it all the time. The QB has little idea what is happening and is waiting for the poster boards to tell him.
There were no poster boards in Louisville. The coach has said as much. He's said the reason.
I get questioning his height, but you can't question his mental aptitude for the game (football IQ), his drive to win, or his mental toughness.
I digress. We are going in circles again. I feel like this same song plays on repeat and we continue to dance to it without knowing why.
Valid point. He planned to graduate college early and then he did it. There are some study habits for you.
That's true.
If you've ever watched a college football game you see it all the time. The QB has little idea what is happening and is waiting for the poster boards to tell him.
There were no poster boards in Louisville. The coach has said as much. He's said the reason.
I get questioning his height, but you can't question his mental aptitude for the game (football IQ), his drive to win, or his mental toughness.
I digress. We are going in circles again. I feel like this same song plays on repeat and we continue to dance to it without knowing why.
Valid point. He planned to graduate college early and then he did it. There are some study habits for you.
jradMIT
Veteran
Its pretty obvious that Teddy is the type of QB that projects to excel at the mental aspects of the game both on and off the field. Its his biggest selling point. From all accounts he could be characterized as a book worm/ chalkboard nerd/ student of the game type of qb who can never prepare enough. Its a big part of the "intangibles" people speak of.
If there was a great QB in this draft I would be all for taking a QB. There isn't. IMHO I don't believe in forcing picks because of need.
The difference is that you believe TB can be a great QB like the ones you listed. I don't. What I do really appreciate is that we can have differing opinions but still respect each others opinion. I really respect yours more than some other TB only type posters because of your posts like this one that are based in facts.
TexansFTW
Veteran
If it was 2011 and you were the Panthers and could do it again would you draft Cam Newton?
EVERYTHING I saw on Cam had him outside of the top 7. Most outside of the top 12. Almost everyone has TB ranked inside of the top 10. Did they force the pick? Do they regret it?
bah007
Hall of Fame
What Earl said.
Bridgewater was also offered by LSU late in the game but he turned them down because he was upset that he was a last minute option.
If we draft Teddy Bridgewater, look for me to start a thread claiming he will be better than Andrew Luck.
Good Post
The main ingredient missing is the QB drafted by the Rams at 1-1. (Bradford) I don't want to see the Texans go down this reaching for a QB route and essentially become the Rams. Sad part is that I like Bradford more than any QB in this draft.
No , you don't take Wilson 1:1 when he isn't the best prospect at his position even if you think you can win with him going forward.
You do take him before ... someone else does. So your player evaluations better be solid and have him slotted properly so you have the opportunity to take him .... cause if you have him lower than another team he's gone and if you have him much higher than others m you reached.
I'm not so sure Wilson is a real good example. Sure the SeaDucks won a Super Bowl with him ... but it was defense & running the rock that they hung their hat on.
Not taking anything away from Wilson , he made some big plays all season .... but I don't put him in the category with the elite QB's.
That was a team victory (season), not a superstar QB leading a team to a Lombardi , and I have my doubts as to whether he could do the things Brady , Rodgers , Manning or Brees has done thru the years.
Reminds me more of .... The other Manning who had a really good defense and made plays at big moments.
Probably not, Newton while being the best talent in the draft had severe character questions. (Theft) I don't think I would've wanted him being the face of my franchise. I would've been wrong. Because it looks like Newton has grown up and will live up to his immense talent level. A talent level no QB in this draft is even close too.
jradMIT
Veteran
Sam Bradford's career has been derailed a lot because of the injuries, although not completely because of them. He seemed to be playing a lot better last before he was knocked out. Maybe the Texans should try to sign him after he is cut, and just trade down and pick up multiple picks.
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
I think Cam physically is a freak talent that will really be seen in sport.
Not convinced that his non physical talent is better than what is available in this draft.
Physical talent isn't everything for a QB.
I'd take Bridgewater's football brain in college over anything Newton displayed in college.
I'm still not sold on Cam Newton. He did improve .... but the biggest improvement on that team was its defense which was a huge benefit to Newton.
He makes some big plays .... but also some critical mistakes. Can they win a Lombardi with him ? Maybe , but I don't see him being the catalyst but not in spite of either. He'll have to contribute and limit the mistakes.
TexansFTW
Veteran
This is true. I truly believe if Cam was coming out this draft he would be slotted about where he was during his draft. Right outside the top 10 on average, and TB would still be slotted where he is currently. Inside of the top 10 on average.
drs23
Veteran
Because history is all over the board. From Ryan Leaf to that guy from Michigan taken in the 6th. Sometimes ya just gotta nut up and pull the trigger. I'm in the 'Bridgewater is going to make a great Pro camp'. Nothing says I can't be wrong though and the folks that say he's fool's gold are spot on.
That's why they play the game.
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& still, no one has them upgrading the most important position on the field in this draft.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
since we don't have one thread for all qbs......
Here are some MAJOR issues I have seen (consistently) with the top 3 qbs.
Blake Bortles (and his is the worst by FAR) struggles BIG TIME with accuracy when throwing left. I have watched numerous games now of him and Im telling you, he struggles bad throwing left. When wrs catch it, its low and they have to dive/slide to get it. Big time concern IMO
Teddy and Johnny both struggle with this, they tend to drift backwards when the pocket collapses. Not always, but enough to notice and see it could be a problem.
Teddy doesn't use his athleticism enough. He is very athletic but will stand in the pocket too long (similar to Rodgers in this aspect) and cause unnecessary bad plays.
Johnny on the other hand tends to drift too quickly. Its exciting, but exposes him to big hits and limits the down field plays especially in the NFL.
Here are some MAJOR issues I have seen (consistently) with the top 3 qbs.
Blake Bortles (and his is the worst by FAR) struggles BIG TIME with accuracy when throwing left. I have watched numerous games now of him and Im telling you, he struggles bad throwing left. When wrs catch it, its low and they have to dive/slide to get it. Big time concern IMO
Teddy and Johnny both struggle with this, they tend to drift backwards when the pocket collapses. Not always, but enough to notice and see it could be a problem.
Teddy doesn't use his athleticism enough. He is very athletic but will stand in the pocket too long (similar to Rodgers in this aspect) and cause unnecessary bad plays.
Johnny on the other hand tends to drift too quickly. Its exciting, but exposes him to big hits and limits the down field plays especially in the NFL.
I think lots of people have them upgrading their QB position this offseason. Lots of analysts are suggesting they cut Bradford, save 10 million in cap money and draft a QB. The question is: are they ready to give up on Bradford, who has played pretty well before his injury in 2013. Giving up on a #1 pick that has shown flashes is the hard part. Bradfords biggest downfall are his injuries. But I wouldn`t be shocked, if the Rams cut him and take one of the QBs.
Lots of people in their minds would do as you suggested. I haven't seen one single hint from anyone in that organization that has even suggested they have given up on Bradford. He was offensive rookie of the year 2010. You think they are going to give up on the number one overall pick after only 3 years? No way. IMO it 70% WR 30% OT. He needs better weapons and better protection. He's a lot better than people give him credit for.
In his second year he had to go through what David Carr went through. He was sacked a lot and got banged up. Then a coaching change. They arent giving up on him this soon considering the promiss he has shown and what he's been through.
Wonder why?
Could it be Snead/Fisher don't think a QB in this draft is as good as Bradford? But the Texans should spend 1-1 on a lesser QB than Bradford because they need one?
It's easy to see with this kind of leadership why the Texans are picking 1-1 again and probably will be again in another 5-7 yrs and we will be having this discussion all over again.
Thanks BoB/Rick, this is what you get when people at the top of the org put fans entertainment value above winning football games.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
jradMIT
Veteran
I don't think they ever put entertainment over winning football games. If they take a qb 1-1, they will most certainly believe he will be a franchise guy to build around. Sam Bradford has had injury issues, plus coach turnover, but he was quite a prospect coming out, eventhough he didn't play in a pro style offense coming out.
TexansFTW
Veteran
I've actually heard quite a bit of rumblings from St. Louis talking about getting QBs. More than one of their "beat writers" has made it clear that's the direction they should go.
You will NEVER hear an organization ever badmouth or say 'they've given up' on a QB. The second you do, that QB is cut within 24 hours (for this reference see the prank call done to the Buffalo Bills GM and the immediate cut of Ryan Fitzpatrick once the story went live).
John McClain is a beat writer for the texans. Nuff said. With the money they owe him and the fact that he's only had three years and part of that he was injured means no way they ditch him now.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Or they could be angling for a trade down to select any of Robinson/Matthews/Lewan.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Or it's because they can't afford to cut him so they are talking him up because that's what every team does in that situation.
Whoa... whoa.... they haven't picked a QB yet. They might not.
If they don't find a solution at QB this offseason , they will likely be picking very high again in next years draft ... We wont have to wait 5-7 years.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Just throwing this in the mix. Spotrac says in 2012 the guarantees for the 2014 and 2015 base salaries were thrown out. They have him as a $10.5 mil cap savings if cut this offseason and $13 mil after next season.
Texian
Hall of Fame
They would ditch him now because of his salary alone. He was the last of mega rookie salaries.
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
In that division? The Rams might have won our division this year as is.
TexansFTW
Veteran
I was just having a little friendly banter about 'reaching' and did a little bit of research on the subject.
After I got done looking I have convinced myself that he IS the pick.
I'd love to see that research, or try to better understand what you consider a reach.
TexansFTW
Veteran
This is from a little bit of research I did. I basically Googled every big board I could find for the specific year, that's Big Board, not Mock Draft. Entirely different.
It basically showed me that if you didn't reach for a QB you almost never got one. I stopped at this number of QBs because it proved my point, almost every other QB that is starting is an INC or not a reach, but I felt I had enough.
Ben Ro and Jay Cutler are exceptions, but who wants Jay Cutler? Matt Ryan is iffy, and I wrote that.
Brees, Wilson, and Foles are incompletes for reasoning written.
Romo, Rodgers, and Brady are all the biggest exceptions and blunders that everyone is aware of.
That leaves you the rest. 2 of those 3 justifiable 1.01 picks are 2 of only 3 in the last 30 years (third being Elway), chances you get a shot at one of those 3 are very very small.
You can correct me if you think I'm wrong, but I want you to prove it, I will not accept anyone's faulty memories as truth.
This is from a little bit of research I did. I basically Googled every big board I could find for the specific year, that's Big Board, not Mock Draft. Entirely different.
You can correct me if you think I'm wrong, but I want you to prove it, I will not accept anyone's faulty memories as truth.
You've got a column with the heading, "Reach to me" & one marked "Reach to you"
Are you the "me" & am I the "you" or do they mean something totally different?
TexansFTW
Veteran
Yes.
I feel that it is not a reach to draft a QB almost all of the time, unless in Tannehill's case I was very against the pick, but he is slowly showing me that I might be wrong. I'm still not completely sold though and will always consider it a reach even if he proves me as justified.
Bill Lazor might just do wonders though, we will see, and I could eat crow soon.