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Manziel

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Mr teX said:
you don't "correct" something "at times". You either do it correctly all the time or you don't. And too many times his bad habits come out when the heat is on or when things aren't perfect for him...That's not a good tendency to have.

And just as easily as you can point to 2 games against solid competition in Bama where he made a number of good throws, i can point to the 2 LSU games where he looked completely overmatched at times in those games..
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Haha, you don't really think this right? So by your expectation these 21 year old kids should be on a Manning level of execution before they even strap up their NFL cleets?

And I used those two Alabama games as an example because most people have seen them, Johnny has shown great ability in many more games in his short career. LSU had his number, no doubt, but his receivers didn't not do him any favors in this years game against LSU. Go rewatch the cutups of that game, his receivers were dropping tons of passes early and he never got into any sort of rhythm passing the ball. God forbid a player has a bad game or two in career...

He literally had two poor performances in 26 college games he played, maybe three if you count this last Mizzou game where the entire team was depleted and ready for a break.
 
matts290 said:
Haha, you don't really think this right? So by your expectation these 21 year old kids should be on a Manning level of execution before they even strap up their NFL cleets?

And I used those two Alabama games as an example because most people have seen them, Johnny has shown great ability in many more games in his short career. LSU had his number, no doubt, but his receivers didn't not do him any favors in this years game against LSU. Go rewatch the cutups of that game, his receivers were dropping tons of passes early and he never got into any sort of rhythm passing the ball. God forbid a player has a bad game or two in career...

He literally had two poor performances in 26 college games he played, maybe three if you count this last Mizzou game where the entire team was depleted and ready for a break.
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You're wasting your time. Mrtex has watched a fee highlights and made up his mind. You're right about the WR's not helping him out in that game. Also he should of sat that game out. His left thumb was messed up bad. One coach described it as when Manziel holds his left hand up his thumb is facing down. Just shows his toughness and his determination.
 
matts290 said:
Haha, you don't really think this right? So by your expectation these 21 year old kids should be on a Manning level of execution before they even strap up their NFL cleets?

And I used those two Alabama games as an example because most people have seen them, Johnny has shown great ability in many more games in his short career. LSU had his number, no doubt, but his receivers didn't not do him any favors in this years game against LSU. Go rewatch the cutups of that game, his receivers were dropping tons of passes early and he never got into any sort of rhythm passing the ball. God forbid a player has a bad game or two in career...

He literally had two poor performances in 26 college games he played, maybe three if you count this last Mizzou game where the entire team was depleted and ready for a break.
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Should've said "most of the time" but yes, I Firmly believe that b/c if it's corrected, it's ingrained in you & you do it that way 95% of the time...even when you're not playing well. Maniziel consistently is throwing off his back foot...consistently is hoping around in the pocket as if he's uncomfortable & consistently runs around too much, when things aren't ideal. You don't see that stuff with qb's whose mentality is pass 1st and are comfy in the phone booth.

Many like to point to Russell Wilson as a blueprint for him & the comparisons aren't apt. If Wilson was taken high like Manziel projects to be by some, he wouldn't be having the success he's having b/c the team wouldn't likely be in place around him. The best thing that could happen to Manziel is him being drafted later to a reasonably talented team & having time to sit & watch for a year. If he plays his way on as a starter like Wilson did fine...but If he goes to a team & they expect him to be a face of the franchise qb right off the bat, he's gonna wash out pretty fast.........imo of course.
 
Mr teX said:
Many like to point to Russell Wilson as a blueprint for him & the comparisons aren't apt. If Wilson was taken high like Manziel projects to be by some, he wouldn't be having the success he's having b/c the team wouldn't likely be in place around him.
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So he would be a perfect fit for the Texans then?

Team is in place, just had a horrible year caused by Schaubiak and friends.

Talent is here for the most part, so according to you we should be the next Seattle.
 
kingtexan said:
Talent is here for the most part, so according to you we should be the next Seattle.
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I honestly thought we were on the same tier with Seattle & San Francisco. Strong run game, strong defense. We lost Arian, Gore's showing his age. But while SF made up for it with Kaepernick & a RBBC, Ben Tate & Matt Schaub just didn't show up..... I'm not blaming Tate, but the point is: when we needed him, he wasn't there.

That, & our DBs just dropped off the face of the earth.
 
thunderkyss said:
I honestly thought we were on the same tier with Seattle & San Francisco. Strong run game, strong defense. We lost Arian, Gore's showing his age. But while SF made up for it with Kaepernick & a RBBC, Ben Tate & Matt Schaub just didn't show up..... I'm not blaming Tate, but the point is: when we needed him, he wasn't there.

That, & our DBs just dropped off the face of the earth.
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along with the pass rush. Chicken or egg?
 
mussop said:
along with the pass rush. Chicken or egg?
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There wasn't a big difference in their pass rush from 2012 to 2013. At least they didn't see the drop off we saw... which put our pass rush more or less the same as theirs.

Their back end did their job though, when it counted.
 
I can get pretty excited over a Manziel pick with an O'Brien stamp of approval, but I can t help but feel as though we should do what we can to move a few spots down and pick up some assets before taking him.
 
Allstar said:
I can get pretty excited over a Manziel pick with an O'Brien stamp of approval, but I can t help but feel as though we should do what we can to move a few spots down and pick up some assets before taking him.
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The only two picks I can get excited about with #1 are Manziel or Clowney. Otherwise move down if you can get a RG3 type deal for the pick from Cleveland and secure multiple firsts+.
 
Johnny was a schoolboy when he sent his first receiver long,
'dressed in orange ,' I think it was. From there it didn't take him long.
Got himself a football , used to play every night,
Now he's in a SEC outfit,

And everything's all right, don't you know? :barman:

Johnny told his mama, hey, 'Mama, I'm goin' away. I'm gonna hit the big
time, gonna be a big star someday', Yeah.
Mama came to the door with a teardrop in her eye.
Johnny said, 'Don't cry, mama, smile and wave good-bye'.

Don't you know, yeah yeah, Don't you know that you are a shooting star,
Don't you know, don't you know. Don't you know that you are
a shooting star, And all the world will love you just as long,
As long as you are. :doot:

Johnny set records, Went straight up to number one,
Suddenly everyone loved to hear him sling and run .
Watching the world go by, surprising it goes so fast.
Johnny looked around him and said, 'Well, I made the big time at last'.
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
Johnny was a schoolboy when he sent his first receiver long,
'dressed in orange ,' I think it was. From there it didn't take him long.
Got himself a football , used to play every night,
Now he's in a SEC outfit,

And everything's all right, don't you know? :barman:

Johnny told his mama, hey, 'Mama, I'm goin' away. I'm gonna hit the big
time, gonna be a big star someday', Yeah.
Mama came to the door with a teardrop in her eye.
Johnny said, 'Don't cry, mama, smile and wave good-bye'.

Don't you know, yeah yeah, Don't you know that you are a shooting star,
Don't you know, don't you know. Don't you know that you are
a shooting star, And all the world will love you just as long,
As long as you are. :doot:

Johnny made set records, Went straight up to number one,
Suddenly everyone loved to hear him sling and run .
Watching the world go by, surprising it goes so fast.
Johnny looked around him and said, 'Well, I made the big time at last'.
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Reading that while trying to keep the tune in my head made my PP hurt ...
 
matts290 said:
Oh are we doing bad Johnny Football songs?

Heres a classic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFFPQ4GRxJA

This ones not so bad

http://youtu.be/8GbUH2RX_9M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP6mVF8ZoZ8

Most annoying one because of Stephen A Smith

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wGJN7ErQbs
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See, its not the bad game,its the bad habits even when he has a great game. You can pull up the great games and mechanically they look like this game. The difference or what I look at is, can those bad habits be broken. 1st read,looking at the rush,suffocation in in the pockets. Notice I didn't mention anything about throwing the football. I've watched the bad game vs UH of Tb,that's what I do. I wat,h those "bad" games to see the variance between those and the great games.
 
leebigeztx said:
See, its not the bad game,its the bad habits even when he has a great game. You can pull up the great games and mechanically they look like this game. The difference or what I look at is, can those bad habits be broken. 1st read,looking at the rush,suffocation in in the pockets. Notice I didn't mention anything about throwing the football. I've watched the bad game vs UH of Tb,that's what I do. I wat,h those "bad" games to see the variance between those and the great games.
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Please re-read the post word for word and actually click the links...I wasn't talking about his bad vs good games, or even his games at all. Geez
 
leebigeztx said:
See, its not the bad game,its the bad habits even when he has a great game. You can pull up the great games and mechanically they look like this game. The difference or what I look at is, can those bad habits be broken. 1st read,looking at the rush,suffocation in in the pockets. Notice I didn't mention anything about throwing the football. I've watched the bad game vs UH of Tb,that's what I do. I wat,h those "bad" games to see the variance between those and the great games.
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Break it down for us. Show us which plays you're not happy with. Specifically the ones where he's not going through his progressions.
 
mussop said:
Break it down for us. Show us which plays you're not happy with. Specifically the ones where he's not going through his progressions.
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It was clear when lsu threatened inside pressure,they knew jff would retreat and look at the rush. On the 2nd level off that, they were robbing routes. Even when they didn't bring the inside rush and sugar or slow rush him, they would rob the shallow route,and JF would retreat because he was suffocating in the pocket. There isn't a guy who will argue the playmaking ability of JF off schedule. Watch the tape,watch his head in concert wth his feet.
 
835426679.jpg


VY all over again.
 
Playoffs said:
835426679.jpg


VY all over again.
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Do all those trashed out cars also represent wasted draft picks?

If we take this sign literally, it only states keep him in Texas. Last time I checked there where two teams in Texas so maybe more applicable to the team up North :zipit:
 
beerlover said:
Do all those trashed out cars also represent wasted draft picks?

If we take this sign literally, it only states keep him in Texas. Last time I checked there where two teams in Texas so maybe more applicable to the team up North :zipit:
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if you go to the website its about drafting him to the texans
 
beerlover said:
Do all those trashed out cars also represent wasted draft picks?

If we take this sign literally, it only states keep him in Texas. Last time I checked there where two teams in Texas so maybe more applicable to the team up North :zipit:
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Well, don't we play Dallas this year?

Imagine if they do get Manziel and beat us :pinned:
 
thunderkyss said:
I heard someone on the radio yesterday (Koch & Kalu I think) say it was McNair's neighbor putting those up.
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Tony Buzbee is a Houston lawyer and A&M regent and he is the one that launched the draftjohnnymanziel.com website and Facebook page...not sure if he is the one that put up these billboards though, although I am sure he is associated in some way
 
matts290 said:
Tony Buzbee is a Houston lawyer and A&M regent and he is the one that launched the draftjohnnymanziel.com website and Facebook page...not sure if he is the one that put up these billboards though, although I am sure he is associated in some way
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He is the one who put them up.
 
I can't think of any QB with this kind of hype who was successful at the NFL level.

This hype is different than the Ryan Leaf/Andrew Luck "once in a generation prototypical QB" hype. This is the Michael Vick, Vince Young, Jamarcus Russell type of hype. Vick was successful, but he does have the health issues everyone thought he would.

Manziel looks every bit as dynamic as Vick & Young and I wouldn't be surprised if he finds the immediate "success" those guys did. I'd be worried about long term. Vick is still in the league, still considered a starting QB.

I've got no preference. If he's a Texans, I'm going to have fun watching him play. If he's not, I'm going to have fun watching him play. I just don't think the Texans will draft him so it's not something I think about a lot.
 
kingtexan said:
So he would be a perfect fit for the Texans then?

Team is in place, just had a horrible year caused by Schaubiak and friends.

Talent is here for the most part, so according to you we should be the next Seattle.
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you're not too bright...

If he's brought here he'll be expected to start from day 1 especially if we select him anywhere in the top 10......so no he's not a perfect fit.

- OD is probably done here
- Tate is probably gone
- Arian is likely never gonna be who he was 2 years ago
- Wade Smith should be done
- The right side of your o-line is an abomination

Aside from Hopkins, Brown and a few more years of AJ, where's all this talent you think we have on offense?

I'm not even gonna speak on the defense b/c It's basically Watt and noone else.
 
Mr teX said:
If he's brought here he'll be expected to start from day 1
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Ideal situation if we decided to draft him would be to bring in Vick for a two year deal and have JFF learn the NFL while Mike sings his swan song. I think Vick has a good year left in him, and could be a suitable mentor for JFF.
 
kingtexan said:
Ideal situation if we decided to draft him would be to bring in Vick for a two year deal and have JFF learn the NFL while Mike sings his swan song. I think Vick has a good year left in him, and could be a suitable mentor for JFF.
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Even if Bob & Bill were to entertain this..(they won't)...

#1) Most teams don't select a qb in the top 10 and sit him on the bench for 1 yr. to learn.....if he or any of the other qbs are taken that early, expect them to be annointed in training camp.

#2) Vick's injury history suggests that JFF would be pressed into action for the long term at some point in that 1 year he's supposed to be learning...wouldn't be good for him...or any rookie for that matter imo.

#3) There are other much better stop gap solutions at qb imo....at least 2 of which are already on our roster.
 
Mr teX said:
- OD is probably done here
- Tate is probably gone
- Arian is likely never gonna be who he was 2 years ago
- Wade Smith should be done
- The right side of your o-line is an abomination

Aside from Hopkins, Brown and a few more years of AJ, where's all this talent you think we have on offense?

I'm not even gonna speak on the defense b/c It's basically Watt and noone else.
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:firehair:
 
kingtexan said:
And you say I'm not too bright?

:vincepalm:
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lol, fair enough..

Yates has at least won us some games before in the reg season & playoffs..he also wasn't really given a fair shake last year in all the qb controversy...

-He's also younger than Vick...
- it likely won't cost as much to keep him here let alone bring in...unlike Vick.

Keenum, while he didn't win any games last year showed a little promise as a quality back up...

- He's also younger than Vick...
- it likely won't cost as much to keep him here let alone bring in...unlike Vick.
- The fans can also get behind him.
 
Mr teX said:
lol, fair enough..

Yates has at least won us some games before in the reg season & playoffs..he also wasn't really given a fair shake last year in all the qb controversy...

-He's also younger than Vick...
- it likely won't cost as much to keep him here let alone bring in...unlike Vick.

Keenum, while he didn't win any games last year showed a little promise as a quality back up...

- He's also younger than Vick...
- it likely won't cost as much to keep him here let alone bring in...unlike Vick.
- The fans can also get behind him.
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I think Keenum stays as a back-up. Bring in Vick on a discount, as I doubt there will be many teams fighting for him to come in as a starter. His style is similar to what people expect out of JFF and he can show JFF what NOT to do and how he had to change his game to fit the league.

I would prefer we trade the pick, or take Clowney if he blows everyone away at the combine and in interviews, but if we take JFF I think this idea could be a good fit.
 
No way O'Brien brings in Vick, he is the exact opposite of everything he seems to like in a QB and would be a bad fit for his offense. Vick may be a veteran, but he is set in his ways and there isn't much use in changing him at this point.
 
matts290 said:
No way O'Brien brings in Vick, he is the exact opposite of everything he seems to like in a QB and would be a bad fit for his offense.
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My idea was only contingent on IF he drafted JFF, who is also the opposite of OB's historical preference at QB. If he drafted JFF then a QB like Vick would be a natural fit because he would be changing his system to fit JFF, which would lend itself more to Vicks skill-set.
 
kingtexan said:
Ideal situation if we decided to draft him would be to bring in Vick for a two year deal and have JFF learn the NFL while Mike sings his swan song. I think Vick has a good year left in him, and could be a suitable mentor for JFF.
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If you put mentor and Vick in the same sentence with anything other than "worst possible" you need to go give yourself a swirlie.

Suitable for what? - guaranteeing Manziel becomes a self-absorbed, uncoachable, low effort, prima donna?
 
infantrycak said:
If you put mentor and Vick in the same sentence with anything other than "worst possible" you need to go give yourself a swirlie.

Suitable for what? - guaranteeing Manziel becomes a self-absorbed, uncoachable, prima donna?
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Vick entered the league basically being what JFF is going to be ... extremely talented and extremely immature. Vick turned it around and although he still isnt the pro Manning is, he is light years ahead of where he was when he went down. I think he could be a positive influence, and may want that chance to go out being known as such.

We are most likely drafting Clowney, and if not trading the pick, so it really is just a discussion for the sake of discussing ... very little chance we ever find out if it works or not.
 
kingtexan said:
My idea was only contingent on IF he drafted JFF, who is also the opposite of OB's historical preference at QB. If he drafted JFF then a QB like Vick would be a natural fit because he would be changing his system to fit JFF, which would lend itself more to Vicks skill-set.
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I don't see that many likenesses between the two, so I don't think bringing in Vick would really help Manziel out at all...other than having his favorite childhood player on the same team with him.

If Manziel were to come in and sit behind a veteran for a year, I would much prefer a pocket passer who can help develop that part of Johnny's game and teach him things that a guy like Vick has never grasped in his entire career.
 
kingtexan said:
I think Keenum stays as a back-up. Bring in Vick on a discount, as I doubt there will be many teams fighting for him to come in as a starter. His style is similar to what people expect out of JFF and he can show JFF what NOT to do and how he had to change his game to fit the league.

I would prefer we trade the pick, or take Clowney if he blows everyone away at the combine and in interviews, but if we take JFF I think this idea could be a good fit.
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JFF's game is modeled after Vick's but there's nothing Vick can teach him that any other capable coach can't teach him.

Besides, Vick's main issues stemmed from him being lazy, not spending enough time in the film room...largely b/c he didn't know how to study film. He simply thought his athletic abilities would get him by. That's the case for alot of guys like him coming out though. & any coach worth his weight in salt should be able to teach their qb's that.
 
matts290 said:
I don't see that many likenesses between the two, so I don't think bringing in Vick would really help Manziel out at all...other than having his favorite childhood player on the same team with him.

If Manziel were to come in and sit behind a veteran for a year, I would much prefer a pocket passer who can help develop that part of Johnny's game and teach him things that a guy like Vick has never grasped in his entire career.
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JFF will never be a pocket passer. If we want to be honest and wanted to bring in what he has the potential to become, bring in Young (Steve not Vince) or Favre.
 
kingtexan said:
We are most likely drafting Clowney, and if not trading the pick
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Trading our first overall pick is one of the least likely things we do...trading out of 1.1 just doesn't happen in the NFL. As much as members love to dream up this awesome scenario where we get our "3000 points" and stack up on early round talent, history suggest that trading out of the 1.1 pick is very unlikely to happen.
 
Mr teX said:
Both those guys have way more arm talent than JFF will ever have..
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I am not sure that is true on either front. On accuracy I seriously disagree, as I have seen JFF make some extremely tough throws with dead-on accuracy. As it relates to arm strength then yeah maybe not up there with Favre, but probably comparable to Young.
 
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