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Teddy Bridgewater
- Thread starter revan
- Start date
Haha wow you have obviously never weight trained or done any body building. 12,000 calories day is INSANE, there is no way in hell someone of Teddy's size is eating that much, he doesn't have enough muscle mass to use that many calories no matter how much training he is doing per day. If Teddy is indeed 6"3 200 pounds right now and is weight training very hard, his BMR dictates that he will burn around 4041 kcal a day. So assuming he eats at a 500-1000 caloric surplus for adding bulk, he will be eating a max of 5050 calories a day.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Just more made up nonsense from Texian.
Reggie Bush was thought to be too small to carry the load & take the punishment to be an NFL RB. Though he has proven to be a productive player in the NFL, his history in the league has shown to warrant such concerns.
The QB position is the most important position on the field. You can not afford to lose him for several games a year.
Yeah people are really getting way to critical and overanalyzing him, acting like 1 inch here or 5 pounds there is going to make all the difference. 5 pounds so minute that if he weighs in at or 210 or 215 it makes almost no difference, that 5 pounds can fluctuate day to day anyways in water weight.
That's why there's a plethora of 6'3" 196lb QBs running around the league.
You missed my point. Which was arguing about a couple pounds is irrelevant and makes no difference, 5 pounds can literally fluctuate from AM to PM because of hydration and food, so arguing about a margin that razor thin is dumb.
The expectation is not that he'll live the rest of his days at 215. Getting to 215 shows he has the ability to reach a more robust playing weight.
But since we have no reliable baseline, how does getting to 215 show ability? We have no idea what he weighed "before", so we can't say "oh he weighed X amount before and now weighs 215 so good on him for putting on that weight" It's all such huge amounts of speculation.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Dave Krieg had very small hands. And because of that, he was prone to fumbling. He didn't have as good a grip on the ball as someone with larger hands.
So.
Yeah, hand-size is important for a QB.
revan
Waterboy
Scouts will probably go even further. I know teams also tend to get a little too personal when doing interview questions. These kids are going to get dissected to every little detail from here till the draft.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
How about a goalie with small hands ?
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I'm 390. Does that make me Superman?
It don't matter unless he is dropping the ball regular.
Is the QB losing the ball regular?
If so then yes it may be one of the issues.
Suppose I am worried we may be alienating fans to certain QBs. So which ever one we get there will be certain people not hoping he fails but ready to jump on any mistakes he does.
Creating a bad atmosphere.
Hope that makes sense.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Can you play nose guard ?
Can you run a pro offense?
Look. If you don't know how to evaluate NFL talent that's fine. Some of us are better suited to the college game, where some things just don't matter. There's no shame in that.
He does hold the ball low , below the shoulder about mid-chest. You are correct in general he holds it with two hands while in the pocket and that absolutely has something to do with him hanging onto the ball.
The ball position may also be the reason for the loop in the top of his throwing motion.
Here's a comparison shot for you: (couldn't match sizes as that's the only one of Manziel that wasn't money signs or girls in bikini's ....)
As for the hand size issue , that'll come out in the draft combine and we can either forget it or it becomes a legit concern.
I don't "dislike" Bridgewater .... I just have some questions about him , one of which we cant answer until he steps on an NFL field , everything else will either be answered at the combine. Level of competition will remain a question.
To be honest , I wouldn't be upset if they pick any of the three between Bortles , Bridgewater & Manziel. They all have redeeming qualities and they all have some questions about them. Just so happens I like them in a different order than you ....
Hand size is a valid concern for a QB. TPN explained it well.
And bah007 agrees.
We'll find out down to the 1/8th of an inch at the combine , those bastards will measure everything including the length of the hairs on his ass. They are very meticulous .....
I don't give a damn what fans think when the choice is made , all I care is that the guy they decide upon is the right guy. No more HWWNBM , Matt Schaub , Case Keenum .... I'm sick of the other team having a better QB while we have an "adequate" or worse" player at the position.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
I think it's definitely a part of it. Boyd holds the ball similarly, but his windup is much more fluid & faster than Bridgewater's. If you watch Bridgewater without the TB colored glasses, you'll see his windup is two part. One, there is a definite jerk to get the ball to his ear, then he draws the ball back.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Boyd definitely has a stranger throwing motion than does Bridgewater. Boyd has a bit of a sidearm delivery.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
He does hold the ball low , below the shoulder about mid-chest. You are correct in general he holds it with two hands while in the pocket and that absolutely has something to do with him hanging onto the ball.
The ball position may also be the reason for the loop in the top of his throwing motion.
Here's a comparison shot for you: (couldn't match sizes as that's the only one of Manziel that wasn't money signs or girls in bikini's ....)
As for the hand size issue , that'll come out in the draft combine and we can either forget it or it becomes a legit concern.
I don't "dislike" Bridgewater .... I just have some questions about him , one of which we cant answer until he steps on an NFL field , everything else will either be answered at the combine. Level of competition will remain a question.
To be honest , I wouldn't be upset if they pick any of the three between Bortles , Bridgewater & Manziel. They all have redeeming qualities and they all have some questions about them. Just so happens I like them in a different order than you ....
Hand size is a valid concern for a QB. TPN explained it well.
And bah007 agrees.
We'll find out down to the 1/8th of an inch at the combine , those bastards will measure everything including the length of the hairs on his ass. They are very meticulous .....
I don't give a damn what fans think when the choice is made , all I care is that the guy they decide upon is the right guy. No more HWWNBM , Matt Schaub , Case Keenum .... I'm sick of the other team having a better QB while we have an "adequate" or worse" player at the position.
Ehhh, i dont think where he holds the ball is a big deal. The Manning boys are the only qb's i can think of in the NFL who consistently hold the ball up by their ear like that.....Most other qbs in the NFL hold the ball right where TB holds it now and it is far more normal to hold it there in the NFl than holding it up by the ear... Jeff tedford coaches all his qb's to hold it up by the ear...but if you google pics of rodgers right now he's holding it chest high...its a comfort thing really.
Its far more prevalent for coaches in college to teach and require their qbs to hold it up by the ear b/c many of these coaches run spread offenses where the name of the game is to get the ball out as fast as possible to your speed guys in space on those quick hitting plays that are so prevalent in spread systems. Holding it up by your ear like that helps speed with the speed of the release....
That's one of the things that makes Peyton Manning a special player ... He gets the ball out routinely in ~1.6 seconds and kills blitzes because of it. A big part of that is his mechanics and footwork ....
Teams are going to blitz & create pressure with overloads on a regular basis in the NFL .... getting the ball out rapidly & on target are key in beating those situations.
This was one of the reasons Keenum failed so miserably .... failure to get the ball out quickly , along with defenses catching on to how to stop him - pressure.
To me , if you start with solid mechanics , you are ahead of the game and can make minor , comfortability adjustments as time goes on.
Everything you stated is true. When I mentioned that Bridgewater holds the ball low, most replies were flat out denial. Corrosion presented pictures, now you're rationalizing.
I never stated whether it was good or bad. Only that holding the ball the way he does has historically been considered "bad," considered "poor mechanics" as you stated it takes longer for the ball to come out.
I agree with you that most QBs hold the ball that way... though I believe (I have no quantifiable measurement) that Bridgewater holds it even lower than most (I'm talking inches).
The fact is, this is one more thing that he has to overcome. Not that he has to learn to hold the ball like Manziel, but the rest of his game has to compensate for it in some way. He'll have to make better decisions faster than Manziel would, because Manziel is already halfway through his motion, relatively speaking, than Bridgewater is when he decides to throw the ball.
Again, I agree with you that this is common in the NFL. But can you agree it is less than ideal? Which adds to the list of less than ideal qualities Bridgewater has to overcome.
- He's short.
6'5" is "ideal" every inch shorter than 6'5" adds to the difficulty required to play from the pocket.
- He's skinny
His durability is a concern - He's got poor mechanics (he holds the ball low)
It's less than ideal, adding time between the moment he decides to throw the ball & the time the ball leaves his hand. - He's got poor mechanics (there's a hitch in his motion)
I've seen it. It's a matter of time before someone else sees it To me, it's like he's patting the ball. It's not a lot but maybe it will tip off defenses that he's about to throw it. I don't know that to be the case, but I believe that is why we don't want our QBs to pat the ball - He's got poor mechanics (poor footwork)
This is also not a popular opinion right now, but I do not like it. It's not that it's sloppy, his feet go through the right motion, but I do not believe his reads are tied into his progressions, or where he plans to throw the ball.
I also think he's got most people fooled. I don't think he goes through his progressions well. I think, like Schaub, he reads the defense well presnap & has a good idea of where the ball is going to go. Not that he's already made up his mind, but that he's usually right about what the defense is doing & he already knows who "should" be open.
This is not hate on Bridgewater. None of this means he can not be a franchise QB in the NFL... just like most QBs hold the ball at their chest. But there is a reason prototypical is prototypical. It is the ideal. No one is ideal. Every QB who's ever played in the NFL has been less than ideal in some way or another. The question, for O'Brien, is can he work with him or not.
Manziel's got a list too. So does Bortles.
NVM
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
I don't knowh how paste pics,but this had me googling. I saw rodgers,matt ryan,and terrific tom brady holding the ball in the same position as bridgewater. I've never heard anyone say the ball is low ether. Don't believe me, google those qbs holding the ball and you will get the image.
Rodgers holding the ball by his ear killed his velocity. Gb lowered his release and now all of sudden he has a cannon.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
I think back on scouting reports of tj yates and video I saw of him. On the move in the pocket his mechanics went to hell but he improv'd well and threw at awkward angles with his feet well out of line. Pass pro broke down in every other clip and scouts didn't bash him for bad mechanics, they lauded him for being able to complete passes under less then ideal conditions. Lets be realistic. If your evaluating mechanics do it under perfect conditions with a clean pocket. Otherwise your evaluating a qb's ability to complete a pass under duress. Just wanted to put it out there...
Another thing that comes to mind is the report on Blaine Gannett. He had a very good completion percentage. Lots of scouts elevated him because of it. The truth was his average downfield pass was something like 6 yards...which was below the norm. He took the check down more often then not. His contended passes on a college level downfield were an exception. In the nfl almost everythings contended.
Not entirely sure how to make all of this full circle but it stuck with me for one reason or another. Completion percentages don't always = accurate...only safe . Mechanics are easiest to evaluate only in a perfect pocket. Truth is, I don't give a damn about mechanics if my qb is flushed out of the pocket on 3rd and 7...only his ability to keep the drive alive.
Another thing that comes to mind is the report on Blaine Gannett. He had a very good completion percentage. Lots of scouts elevated him because of it. The truth was his average downfield pass was something like 6 yards...which was below the norm. He took the check down more often then not. His contended passes on a college level downfield were an exception. In the nfl almost everythings contended.
Not entirely sure how to make all of this full circle but it stuck with me for one reason or another. Completion percentages don't always = accurate...only safe . Mechanics are easiest to evaluate only in a perfect pocket. Truth is, I don't give a damn about mechanics if my qb is flushed out of the pocket on 3rd and 7...only his ability to keep the drive alive.
I acknowledged that most QBs do in fact hold the ball at their chest. Just like most of them aren't 6'5", it is less than ideal, and not conducive to a quick release. The same way that most NFL QBs are not 6'5" most QBs don't hold the ball high like they should.
TK I think most have made up their minds already .... no matter what evidence is presented , they aren't going to be swayed. They have their guy .... We're just
I'm not trying to sway anyone. Like you, I'm undecided & thinking out loud.
But it's going to get worse, the closer we get to the draft. This is the time myths are created.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
The only thing that can't be changed on your list is height. Do you like his decision making?
There's nothing about the kid I don't like. The things on that list does not make him a bad QB, it makes him less than an ideal candidate to be a franchise QB. But most "franchise QBs" in the game today were less than ideal candidates. So everything on that list can be overcome.
His height most likely won't change. & his level of competition own't change before the combine. Those & that list only say he is not prototypical & makes it hard for me to want to spend a 1-1 on him.
But I've also said if he weighs in at 215lbs at the combine, I'd have no reservations about taking him with the #1 overall.
I like Manziel's mechanics better. I like Manziel's level of competition better. I like Manziel's play making & intangibles better. But I can't think of anything to make me want to draft him at 1-1. He played in the spread, he's only started for two years, he's much farther from ideal height/weight.
Well... there's level of talent in this draft & the fact that there will be a high demand for QBs. If I were in love with Manziel, I'd have to take him with 1-1. But I'm not.
revan
Waterboy
TK I think most have made up their minds already .... no matter what evidence is presented , they aren't going to be swayed. They have their guy .... We're just
Pretty much.
But the end result, we all want the same thing, a franchise player we can win with and bring Houston it's first Super Bowl.
kingtexan
All Pro
Wonder if scouts actually scout the players that are out there already in the limelight? It would seem to be a waste of time, since you can scout them at home on your computer. If I owned a team I would want the scout money I spent to be used to go out and find diamonds in the rough that no one has heard of.
Nawzer
Alienz
Wow! I'll take intelligence over pure raw physical ability any day!
It's all relative.
bah007
Hall of Fame
To a degree. The Chargers probably wish they had done more homework on Ryan Leaf, but he was considered a sure thing by the consensus.
Sometimes it helps to see a guy in person, even if you think you've already made up your mind.
bah007
Hall of Fame
MSR
I'm on board with Bridgewater so far.
But I can't fault you for anything you're saying in this thread. Most people would complain and say that you're nitpicking. But with our history at QB, and with the top pick in the draft, I think we should nitpick all these guys to death.
TexansFTW
Veteran
lol, well if Winston doesn't believe in him, he obviously needs to be taken out of consideration right?
Michael Irvin loves him though, so maybe we should put him back?
Looks like my Mettenberger campaigned gained a little more traction.
I'm there with you man. We need to get him better weapons too though if we bring him in. I'm thinking Jahvid Best and Johnny Knox.
I also love these posts about drafting these imaginary QBs. What if we could go into a lab, take our favorite player, make them bigger, faster, stronger, and smarter. Yeah, that's the guy I draft. Oh really?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
.
By your definition, yes it is less than ideal. Every team wants that 6-5 230 lb prototype of a qb with a howitzer for an arm...but this is paralysis by analysis.
It's 1 thing to say his mechanics need a little work, its a completely different thing to say that his mechanics are "poor"...i can't agree with you there. When going thru progressions, the head more than anything is what tells you how they're going thru them. Even then you still cant tell sometimes b/c of how routes are stacked...you might have 2-3 guys in the same general area to where he may not have to turn his head much. The feet only really come into play when you're actually getting ready to throw the ball. In that regard, the kid is damn good at that. He almost never throws the ball off balance. So im not sure what you're looking at when you say his footwork is poor.
I also have never agreed with the notion that holding the ball up high in a static position like that is "good mechanics" for throwing a football....It "encourages" good mechanics b/c it helps position the arm to naturally bring the ball over the shoulder and it helps speed up the release, but holding it like that isn't natural in and of itself for throwing a football or any kind ball for that matter. I think that's the reason you dont see more guys in the NFL stick with throwing it like that after they leave college.
Look I'm not denying he's got a list....every kid coming out of college has a list, even the Mannings and Lucks...I just think that you're overplaying your hand a bit. i think his biggest issues are weight and strength which will be easily corrected Once he undertakes and nfl strength and conditioing program. Imo, the hitch you're seeing in his throwing motion is related to his overall strength. It's him "loading up" to generate the power/ velocity he needs to get the ball where it needs to be. Its sort of the same thing you see with young baseball batters when they see a ball they like and try to knock the cover off of it. Instead they either miss the ball completely or foul it off. What's happened is that little extra "umph" they took at the beginning of their swing to generate all that power threw off the timing of their swing. I also think the pro style offense thing is overplayed as well. Mark Sanchez and every other USC qb over the last 8 years played in pro style offense...it means next to nothing on the next level.
Obviously, if BoB thinks any of this stuff is a deal breaker then we'll select another guy...i just think he's the best prospect...
drs23
Veteran
Great response. I tried to come up with something as on point and kind and all I came up with sounded like a rant so thanks for posting that.
TexansFTW
Veteran
Would you like to provide something tangible to support the 8.5" hands?
Not that small hands are bad, but that he DOES have small hands, cause I've asked this in the past and the only thing ever shown was some nobodies on a sideline's speculation tweet, whereas everyone that knows him and works with him has said this is entirely false.
Do QBs get hit nearly as much as RBs? There is a reason a GOOD RBs life in the NFL is substantially shorter than a good QBs.
We will find out at the combine , they'll measure everything from his hands & feet to the pimples on his ass .... For now , its nothing but rumor , but if true it is another questionmark on an already questionable prospect.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
And if I was on a College football team I'd be 6'5" and 400 lbs of muscle. College Programs deceive having learned at the foot of the carnival industry.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
The key is that he has not already added the muscle so there might be some concern about his workout habits. Concern doesn't mean rejection, it only means the coaches have to do their due diligence and find out why before draft day.
The true decision makers are busy putting the coaching staff together and deciding what kind of offenses and defenses they will be putting together with the personnel we have, including which are likely to be ready to go. Only then will their attention turn to which positions need improvement through either the draft or FA. First,they have to decide on who will be healthy and who will be retained. ie Cushing, Manning, Williams and eight others Healthy? Will the Ninja return?
What is our most pressing need? Is it QB or something else? Do we go BPA or Need within reason? How expansive is reason? What trade offers are available and are they significant enough to make?
If we get to GB1-1, who is the Best of the Best, not just for next year, but for the next fifteen. I'd be interested to see BO'Bs evaluation of our current QBs compared to those on the board. Do any of them have the traits that he looks for, which might not have been fully utilized? Was the concern over what to avoid so pervasive that they were afraid to do what they could? Or did they just lack the skills, either from the start or from diminished ability due to injury?
I certainly do not have answers, just idle speculation. But I do see the abilities of Smith in working around Cap issues and know with more than idle speculation that he is a major asset to our team because I know Contracts and Budgets from a professional perspective.