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Manziel

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Stemp said:
Comparing a UDFA to a likely first rounder??
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Both guys played in the same system where they took the majority of their snaps in the shotgun..

Would u prefer i said blaine gabbert.....or kevin kolb? 1 guy was a 1st rounder the other a 2nd rounder....both guys operated mostly out of the shotgun.

The point i was making was that his little tidbit has zero bearing on whether or not manziel will be successful or not in the nfl...
 
WolverineFan said:
When have any of his tidbits had any logical bearing?
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Got a bite.....wait for it.......ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ......YANK.....GOT HIM.....another one bites the dust.

The reason people are often misguided and wrong in their interpretation and evaluations is because they fail to grasp the logic.
 
cm-punk-fishing-o.gif
 
Texian said:
Got a bite.....wait for it.......ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ......YANK.....GOT HIM.....another one bites the dust.

The reason people are often misguided and wrong in their interpretation and evaluations is because they fail to grasp the logic.
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There's no logic to what u posted...simply a misguided notion.
 
As entertaining as manziel is, I couldn't draft him. Just like I couldn't draft tayvon austin or percy harvin. Its not that I wouldn't draft them,its mostly where I have them slotted,someone else would draft them. Manziel is fun,but I see a lot of fumbles,injuries,and firings in his future. Jumping into the los,the way he holds the ball low and with 1 hand in the pocket, and the hits he take. Id rather someone else try to train that bronco.
 
leebigeztx said:
As entertaining as manziel is, I couldn't draft him. Just like I couldn't draft tayvon austin or percy harvin. Its not that I wouldn't draft them,its mostly where I have them slotted,someone else would draft them. Manziel is fun,but I see a lot of fumbles,injuries,and firings in his future. Jumping into the los,the way he holds the ball low and with 1 hand in the pocket, and the hits he take. Id rather someone else try to train that bronco.
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That's how I feel as well. He's by far the most dynamic and fun player in college football. I'm a big JFF fan and actually think he really improved his passing this season. I love his play.... But I'd suspect he finds success in the NFL 1-2 seasons max. I wish him the best of luck and will tune in to watch his games but I really don't think he's a long term solution at QB and not someone I could take at 1:1

Good luck in Cleveland or Jacksonville :jogger:
 
thunderkyss said:
Agreed, for the same reason. I don't know how close you've got them, but I've got them really close. Which is why I can't take anyone serious who thinks we should take Bridgewater with the #1, but Manziel shouldn't be drafted in the top 10. Or even top 15.

Manziel's play making ability compensates for the lack of a "pro offense" a lot. Then the way nfl offenses are run now anyway, nothing like they ran back in the 90's when coming from a pro offense was important. & with the success of Kaepernick, Wilson, RG3, & Luck because their coaches are willing to make concessions to help their young QB be successful... & the rules protecting the QB & receiver......

Coming from a pro system is still important, just not as important as it used to be.

I'm not arguing that we should draft Manziel.
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People are severely underrating Manziel's mechanics. From the pocket his mechanics seem to be good to me. He has worked very hard last season on them with George Whitfield.
 
steelbtexan said:
People are severely underrating Manziel's mechanics. From the pocket his mechanics seem to be good to me. He has worked very hard last season on them with George Whitfield.
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He consistently holds the ball closer to his ear than the other guys. His throwing motion is smooth. His release is pretty quick. He does a really good job establishing his base when he gets time.

I'm seeing a smaller Cam Newton when I see him play.
 
thunderkyss said:
He consistently holds the ball closer to his ear than the other guys. His throwing motion is smooth. His release is pretty quick. He does a really good job establishing his base when he gets time.

I'm seeing a smaller Cam Newton when I see him play.
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If cam was 6'0, he wouldn't be cam. The fact he's 6'5 250 along with his special traits is what makes him special. Manziel when in the pocket has 1 hand on the ball and is very,very low. His delivery is not low,its what he's doing before he delivers. As I said, I like watching him in college,but he plays so off schedule I wouldn't touch him. I hope he plays well where he's drafted.
 
WolverineFan said:
Not to jump into the middle of this argument, but I'd like to say my piece here. A&M will likely have 2 offensive players other than Manziel drafted in the top 20 this year. Think about that. How many other offenses can say that they will have 3 players drafted top 20 in the same year? Not many I would bet. That's not even to mention their other OT, who has an outside shot at being a 1st round pick.

They also have three 5-stars (T. Williams, Carson, B. Williams) and a 4-star (Malena) at RB. The reason they don't get the ball isn't a lack of talent, it's by offensive design. The offense is extremely QB-centric. To say otherwise is ignorant or just flat lying.

A&M's 4 RB's combined this year had 279 carries for 1556 yards (5.8 ypc) and 24 TD's. To call that unproductive is asinine. Meanwhile, Manziel had 144 rush attempts and 429 pass attempts. They don't get the ball enough. The problem isn't that his supporting cast is bad (it's not), it's that the offense is so QB-centric that everyone and everything depends on Manziel.

The notion that A&M lacks talent on offense outside of Manziel is absurd.
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Totally agree,

When you have a talent like Johnny Football you use him. When will Sumlin ever have even a decent defense?
 
mussop said:
Yep! 99% of his criticism is just hate. People either don't like Manziel the person or they despise the attention that he's drawn.
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True, they've bought into the media hype. JM is just doing what every 20 yr old kid dreams of being able to do. Jealousy is a terrible thing.
 
Mr teX said:
Both guys played in the same system where they took the majority of their snaps in the shotgun..

Would u prefer i said blaine gabbert.....or kevin kolb? 1 guy was a 1st rounder the other a 2nd rounder....both guys operated mostly out of the shotgun.

The point i was making was that his little tidbit has zero bearing on whether or not manziel will be successful or not in the nfl...
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That's the question, will JM become Case Keenum or Fran Tarkenton.

I lean towards the Tarkenton side.
 
leebigeztx said:
As entertaining as manziel is, I couldn't draft him. Just like I couldn't draft tayvon austin or percy harvin. Its not that I wouldn't draft them,its mostly where I have them slotted,someone else would draft them. Manziel is fun,but I see a lot of fumbles,injuries,and firings in his future. Jumping into the los,the way he holds the ball low and with 1 hand in the pocket, and the hits he take. Id rather someone else try to train that bronco.
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This is how I feel about Bridgewater.
 
steelbtexan said:
That's the question, will JM become Case Keenum or Fran Tarkenton.

I lean towards the Tarkenton side.
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there's only 1 Tarkenton and there will never be another. & i'm not saying that b/c Tarkenton was just that good. I'm saying it b/c defensive players and schemes have evolved.

I know Vick was Manziel's football idol growing up, but as good of an athlete as he is, He's not close to the athlete Vick was when he came out. Furthermore, b/c of his idol, The NFL has now become much more adept at containing mobile qbs. In the end, his running & escapability won't matter if he can't beat teams passing the ball. If not, The LSU games are a primer for what's he's gonna see week in, week out in the NFL.


Cleveland better lock up Darryl Bevell as their HC. B/c if they draft him & there's any other coach there, he won't have success. & even if bevell's there will still be long odds.
 
Mr teX said:
there's only 1 Tarkenton and there will never be another. & i'm not saying that b/c Tarkenton was just that good. I'm saying it b/c defensive players and schemes have evolved.

I know Vick was Manziel's football idol growing up, but as good of an athlete as he is, He's not close to the athlete Vick was when he came out. Furthermore, b/c of his idol, The NFL has now become much more adept at containing mobile qbs. In the end, his running & escapability won't matter if he can't beat teams passing the ball. If not, The LSU games are a primer for what's he's gonna see week in, week out in the NFL.


Cleveland better lock up Darryl Bevell as their HC. B/c if they draft him & there's any other coach there, he won't have success.
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Maybe/maybe not,

Agree with you on Bevell regardless if they draft JM.
 
Mr teX said:
there's only 1 Tarkenton and there will never be another. & i'm not saying that b/c Tarkenton was just that good. I'm saying it b/c defensive players and schemes have evolved.

I know Vick was Manziel's football idol growing up, but as good of an athlete as he is, He's not close to the athlete Vick was when he came out. Furthermore, b/c of his idol, The NFL has now become much more adept at containing mobile qbs. In the end, his running & escapability won't matter if he can't beat teams passing the ball. If not, The LSU games are a primer for what's he's gonna see week in, week out in the NFL.


Cleveland better lock up Darryl Bevell as their HC. B/c if they draft him & there's any other coach there, he won't have success. & even if bevell's there will still be long odds.
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I really don't think much of Bevell as a QB maker tbh. He's had some stops at teams which featured some ugly QB play. I believe the Vikings and Browns were both previous stops of his (without looking this up).
 
mussop said:
Yep! 99% of his criticism is just hate. People either don't like Manziel the person or they despise the attention that he's drawn.
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There have been many people on this board (me included) who have given valid reasons why we don't like Manziel as an NFL prospect. That's not hate.
 
WolverineFan said:
There have been many people on this board (me included) who have given valid reasons why we don't like Manziel as an NFL prospect. That's not hate.
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Don't kid yourself.
Anything that is not effusive praise, or outright idolatry is nothing but sheer hatred to Johnny Football's fans.
 
WolverineFan said:
There have been many people on this board (me included) who have given valid reasons why we don't like Manziel as an NFL prospect. That's not hate.
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That's why I said 99%. There are valid concerns. However most of the negativity directed at Manziel is ridiculous. Not being combative but how about making a comparison between Manziel and Bridgewater thread. Show each players strenghts and weaknesses. I would be real interested in your takes.
 
michaelm said:
Don't kid yourself.

Anything that is not effusive praise, or outright idolatry is nothing but sheer hatred to Johnny Football's fans.
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Incorrect. It's simply that there are some (definitely not all) Manziel "haters" that just seem to get downright angry when they talk about him. Hate certainly seems appropriate for some of those individuals.
 
Say Watt said:
Incorrect. It's simply that there are some (definitely not all) Manziel "haters" that just seem to get downright angry when they talk about him. Hate certainly seems appropriate for some of those individuals.
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Not to mention those who don't actually pay attention and claim "all he does is throw up jump balls for his receivers".
 
Texian said:
Imagine how much better Florida State could've been if Johnny Manziel had been their QB.
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Lol, there isn't a "much better" than what Winston & FSU did. They beat every team they faced by 14 or more points. They're best player won the heisman & he led them to the National Championship.

& before you say "well they could've won by XX amount more of points with Johnny", realize that Winston didn't even play in the 4th in any of FSU's regular season games b/c they were so dominant....

Anything to prop up ol' johnny.
 
Mr teX said:
That is pretty much all he does.....
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You mean like the last touchdown he threw against Alabama game last year and the last one he threw against Duke in the bowl game?

In fact, out of his 30 completions in the bowl game NOT ONE was a "jump ball" throw.

Haters just gonna blindly hate. :voodoo:
 
michaelm said:
Don't kid yourself.
Anything that is not effusive praise, or outright idolatry is nothing but sheer hatred to Johnny Football's fans.
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Don't kid yourself.
Anything that is said positive about Manziel is considered effusive praise, or outright idolatry.
 
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