GuerillaBlack
Hall of Fame
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Manziel
- Thread starter Wolf
- Start date
- Status
please show me where the hell I lied?
please point out that LIE..
I'll be sitting here waiting for it.
Manziel's production in 2 years was better than VY's production in 3 years.
VY's completion % his first year 58.7 Manziel 68.0
VY's completion % his second year 59.2 Manziel 69.9
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
I really don't know how anyone could watch that game last night and not come away with the impression that Manziel is worthy of being the first pick in the draft. The way he was getting in the faces of his defense, hyping up the players, getting everyone involved, appealing to the crowd, etc. Johnny Football is an f'n gamer. He shows up when it matters.
Some stats for you. Here are Johnny Manziel's combined bowl numbers in his team's two biggest games:
52 of 72 for 669 yards passing 6 TDs 1 INT
28 rushing attempts 302 yards 3 TDs
So in two bowl games, Manziel accounted for 971 yards and 9 TDs. Absolutely insane, video game numbers by Manziel in games in which his team needed him most.
Here's another statistic for you: 0
That is the number of games Manziel missed in his college career. Meanwhile, Robert Griffin III missed 9 games over his 4 years at Baylor. I definitely don't think there would have been many Texans fans unhappy if we had drafted RGIII, yet why is Manziel's slight build held against so unreasonably? He may be a smaller guy out there, but he has a bigger heart and more guts than any other player on the field.
He did what he needed to do. Last night reminded us just how good Johnny Manziel can be. Undoubtedly, he was injured to end the season, but the key is he fought through those issues and came back to get a little retribution in his team's bowl game.
Another stellar performance by Johnny Football.
Some stats for you. Here are Johnny Manziel's combined bowl numbers in his team's two biggest games:
52 of 72 for 669 yards passing 6 TDs 1 INT
28 rushing attempts 302 yards 3 TDs
So in two bowl games, Manziel accounted for 971 yards and 9 TDs. Absolutely insane, video game numbers by Manziel in games in which his team needed him most.
Here's another statistic for you: 0
That is the number of games Manziel missed in his college career. Meanwhile, Robert Griffin III missed 9 games over his 4 years at Baylor. I definitely don't think there would have been many Texans fans unhappy if we had drafted RGIII, yet why is Manziel's slight build held against so unreasonably? He may be a smaller guy out there, but he has a bigger heart and more guts than any other player on the field.
He did what he needed to do. Last night reminded us just how good Johnny Manziel can be. Undoubtedly, he was injured to end the season, but the key is he fought through those issues and came back to get a little retribution in his team's bowl game.
Another stellar performance by Johnny Football.
Dan B.
Hall of Fame
So, you still can't do it? You know, there's a reason for that.
Funny that your whole premise is bull****, but you act like I'm making something up?
I'm sorry your brain can't wrap itself around BIG-12 THEN vs. SEC - now. I'll go slow for you. End of season top-25 teams in '05 BIG12 - 5 ranked.
End of season top-25 teams in '13 for SEC? 6 ranked.
Let us know when you come up with a cognizant argument.
BTW - That's OU, not OH the Aggies destroyed last year.
You forgot something. UT went undefeated against their competition, including a national title. A&M went 1-4 against their top 25 competition, beating only #24 Duke. They never played USC or UGa. In fact, UT had a harder strength of schedule in 2013 than A&M did.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
soo... where did I lie? You accused me of lying.. Where did I Lie?
The argument is about the QB's not the overall teams. Plus The losses for A&M had little to do with Manziel's play.
Why? What has he done to make you think that?
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
fixed
I'm sorry, regardless of what I think of his ability. I can't take a grown man who calls himself "Johnny" seriously. There's a time in point where Timmy needs to become Tim, Teddy needs to become Ted, and Johnny needs to become John.
It may sound silly, but let's say we do draft him and he is a great success and has a long career... when he's pushing 40 are we still going to call him Johnny, or "Johnny football"?
This post says a lot.
Dan B.
Hall of Fame
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=333270099
Johnny had 224 yards passing and 54 rushing, with 1 TD and 2 INT's for a QBR of 14.9.
http://www.ncaa.com/game/football/fbs/2013/11/30/texas-am-missouri
JFF manages 195 passing yards and a TD with his 21 rushing yards. A slightly more respectable QBR of 47.1.
I'd argue McCarron outplayed him as well. So in three of their four losses his counterpart across the field played better than him and led their team to a win, but the losses had little to do with Manziel's play?
Uh ha did you watch the game?
FirstTexansFan
The Unknown Fan
mr. peebs
gig 'em
So, you still can't do it? You know, there's a reason for that.
Funny that your whole premise is bull****, but you act like I'm making something up?
I'm sorry your brain can't wrap itself around BIG-12 THEN vs. SEC - now. I'll go slow for you. End of season top-25 teams in '05 BIG12 - 5 ranked. End of season top-25 teams in '13 for SEC? 6 ranked.
Let us know when you come up with a cognizant argument.
BTW - That's OU, not OH the Aggies destroyed last year.
the SEC now is a better conference than the big 12 in 2005.
in the 2005 season, the big 12 ended the season with 4 teams (texas, oklahoma, tech, and nebraska) ranked in the AP poll and 3 in the final BCS poll (done before bowl games).
in the 2013 season, the SEC ended the season with 7 teams (auburn, alabama, south carolina, missouri, lsu, georgia, texas a&m) ranked in the penultimate AP poll and 7 in the final BCS poll (again, before bowl games).
you're right. johnny cash, johnny carson, johnny unitas, johnny bench; what a bunch of punks. who could possibly take these goons seriously?
his name is jonathan fwiw
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
Seriously? Have you not followed his year? From selling his autographs to his money hand signals all year. He just seems arrogant to me.
None of that bothers me. To each his own I guess.
Dan B.
Hall of Fame
Are you seriously claiming that Manziel didn't stink it up against LSU?
I'm saying the whole team stunk it up. His OL played horrible. When his WR's weren't dropping balls they were getting manhandled at the LOS throwing the timing off of throws. No QB would of made a difference in that game. A QB can only do so much. Even a great one.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
lol, Jonathan football FTW
Dan B.
Hall of Fame
I'm not arguing that. What I'm saying is they don't play each other, so it's not really a valid comparison. Again, Texas played a harder strength of schedule this year than A&M did. At the end of this season A&M played 1 more ranked team than UT did (A&M went 1-4, Texas went 1-3). I'm not saying Texas was better, or that the Big 12 was better overall. I'm saying that the SEC has an advantage with 14 teams and only 8 conference games over the Big 12 (which had 12 teams and 9 conference games in 2005 and plays round robin now). SEC teams can play one more creampuff OOC game and don't have to play all the giants that are in their conference.
Dan B.
Hall of Fame
C'Mon it's not like he was surrounded by scrubs. Manziel had one of the top offensive rosters in CFB surrounding him all season long. I didn't buy that when people made excuses for Carr and I'm not doing it now.
GuerillaBlack
Hall of Fame
Lol, trying to compare manziel to carr.
Dan B.
Hall of Fame
I'm not saying the players are identical. The excuse is the same though. "It's not his fault. Look at how bad his line protects him. And how bad his receivers played." Manziel had one of, if not the best, lines in college football. He had an elite WR corps led by Mike Evans, Kennedy, and Walker -- and three quality running backs to share the load. Don't try to tell me that all that talent just disappeared on him and poor Johnny was left holding the bag.
Johnny disappeared too.
Johnny Unitas is rolling over in his grave
So is Johnny Cash........ someone should have informed them of this revelation.
Edit: Pbat already beat me to the punch.
Really? Tell me about All this talent.
I guess I didn't read your whole post.
As far as his OL being one of the best. No way. Over rated BIGTIME. Evans is good. The rest are average college players. Manziel makes them look good.
Dan B.
Hall of Fame
Well let's start with the two positions you called out -- OL and WR. Matthews is currently a top 5 projected pick and the #1 lineman in the draft. Evans is one of the top two wideouts in football. Both are likely first round picks. If Ogbuehi leaves he could easily go in the first as well. Texas A&M is likely to have more offensive players taken in the first round than any other college. How can you MISS their talent on that side of the ball?
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
What does it say?
Allz I know is that the SEC was supposed to be built on the best defenses in the country. Almost "Pro" level.
Then came Johnny Football.
Well just hold on... I haven't seen many people saying the Texans should draft Manziel with the 1-1, nor have I seen many say we should take him at all. Most have said, "Hell no"
A few, I think a couple, have said otherwise.
I like a QB with great arm strength and accuracy. JM and Bridgewater have accuracy but lack the arm strngth to become a top level pro QB. It's possible they could develop the arm strength but I wouldn't count on it.
Maybe after seeing Schaub's lack of arm strength and how it limited the offense over the yrs I'm jaded. Lack of arm strength and lack of height concern me as to how JM's game will translate to the next level.
I do rate JM slightly ahead of Bridgewater. Bortles is my #1 QB this yr followed by Mettenberger.
1. Bortles
2. Mettenberger
3. McCarron
4. Johny Football
5. Bridgewater
6. Brett Smith
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Yeah, blaming an extremely talented supporting cast makes zero sense.
Mathews is the most over rated Player in this draft. Evans is good as I said. So who else is top rated player? One over rated OL and one really good WR is does not constitute "surrounded by talent". Minus QB, There are way more talented offenses out there.
Just like you falling in love with a Seminole QB?
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
So would you consider taking Bortles #1 overall?
Extremely talented? Who? There are two guys that will be drafted. Who else is even draftable on that offense? Maybe the one other OL he mentioned.
He's rated #2 on my board right now. I do want to see how Bortles does in his bowl game and the combine. So these rankings are subject to change.
1.Clowney
2.Bortles
3. Watkins
4. Barr
5. Matthews
MistaRed
Rookie
I don't know if O'Brien will think Manziel is the guy. If he does then I'm riding with it 100%. If not I wish him success whenever he's not playing the Texans. The fact that there is a grown man discrediting him because of his first name is comical. Sounds like someone else needs to grow up.
The performance he had yesterday was off the charts.
The performance he had yesterday was off the charts.
Johnny Unitas is rolling over in his grave
Johnny Carson too.... Johnny Cash.... & if he were real, Johnny Ringo.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Johnny Ringo was real.
bah007
Hall of Fame
Manziel is changing my mind a little bit. I still don't want to draft him, but not for the same reasons.
His skill set is exciting as hell. But it's also not sustainable at the NFL level. It just isn't. The #1 reason I don't want him on the Texans is because he will have to change his style of play to adjust to the pro level. And that scares me. I don't like evaluating him as an elite prospect based on skills that will have to be altered for him to succeed long term in the NFL.
There is now no doubt in my mind that Manziel could be a star in the NFL for three or four years before he gets worn down and is forced to alter his style of play. But is that small window worth the #1 pick?
I would just prefer that someone else take the risk. No QB has ever been successful in the NFL long term by playing the way he does. He's too reliant on his legs. He can either play that way and be great for a short time or he can change it and risk losing what makes him special.
I'm not saying he can't be a successful NFL QB. I'm just saying that he needs a ton of work and I would rather another franchise take the risk.
His skill set is exciting as hell. But it's also not sustainable at the NFL level. It just isn't. The #1 reason I don't want him on the Texans is because he will have to change his style of play to adjust to the pro level. And that scares me. I don't like evaluating him as an elite prospect based on skills that will have to be altered for him to succeed long term in the NFL.
There is now no doubt in my mind that Manziel could be a star in the NFL for three or four years before he gets worn down and is forced to alter his style of play. But is that small window worth the #1 pick?
I would just prefer that someone else take the risk. No QB has ever been successful in the NFL long term by playing the way he does. He's too reliant on his legs. He can either play that way and be great for a short time or he can change it and risk losing what makes him special.
I'm not saying he can't be a successful NFL QB. I'm just saying that he needs a ton of work and I would rather another franchise take the risk.
Really?
<-- That guy? He's funny & all, a cool cat.... but get a couple beers in him & he'll think anybody is "the guy"
aussie_texan
Veteran
is it just me or his manziel the anti-luck. imagine those two going up against it twice a year i think it would become quite a rivalry for many years
badboy
Hall of Fame
This is what I keep thinking but...
he has reduced his '1-2-run' quite a bit this season. If he had an across the board better oline not just OTs and Foster? I would compare his WRs in college to AJ and Hopkins. If you got Manziel on a trade down and could add say Cyril Richardson in late first for LG and JuWuan James in third the Oline would look pretty solid & perhaps Johnny would rely even more on his arm. He just seems to be Pam in a skillet & makes things happens. He usually has at least one highlight play each game. He has an arm, accuracy (80% against Duke with 10 avg.) and football smarts. He is a leader personified and if we like new coach because of his "get in your face" approach, Manziel is his clone.
Two things I keep thinking. McCarron is knocked because he does everything correct including wins and has not had to carry a team.
Manziel is knocked because we cannot imagine his game lasting in the NFL.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
So much truth in this simple post its ridiculous.....got dudes in here suggesting in so many words for us to draft a guy b/c he's "exciting"..... Lol. Its the most ridiculous thing i've heard in a while.
And while i couldn't stand VY, he was a much more exciting player imo..i dont remember him putting up very many stinkers and dude was single handedly winning games...what he did in those 2 rose bowl games alone is light years better than anything exciting Manziel did...
Yep, VY was God. Imagine what he could've done with a decent defense. Why he could've put up Manziel-like numbers against top-rated defenses. Oh wait...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Showtime100
Got JJ?
Didn't know his name is Jonathan. In that case it's Jonny Football.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Nope, you got it, Johnny Football is going to be the new, "Greatest Show on Turf".
Dan B.
Hall of Fame
Umm if those three and Johnny all go in the first that would be a record for first round picks from one school on offense.
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