Texian
Hall of Fame
Why in my mock I have Rd 1 = Johnny Texan and Rd 2 = Brandon Scherff OT, Iowa. The Texans still have no answer to Andrew Luck and until they do expect more of the same.
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Where to spend the 2014 1st round pick?
- Thread starter Wolf6151
- Start date
Why in my mock I have Rd 1 = Johnny Texan and Rd 2 = Brandon Scherff OT, Iowa. The Texans still have no answer to Andrew Luck and until they do expect more of the same.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
My friend said something similar the other day that had me laughing. "I can't take a QB that wears gloves top 5."
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
So I'm trying to understand what you're saying here. Basically if we don't use our first pick (that's one pick) on a OL then there is no way to make this OL good enough?
You won't find a poster here or anywhere that believes in building the trenches more than me. I want a OL or front seven D players every year early in The draft. But if you don't have one you cannot pass up a franchise QB. They are the rarest and most important commodity a team can have. I doubt I have to explain to you how big a difference it makes for a team to have a franchise QB.
Remember our second round pick is most likely at the top of the second round. We could easily pick up a high quality RT in that area. Quality guards can be had in the early third as well. Also don't forget about free agency. Now factor in that it is highly unlikely that you could get a franchise QB in any of those spots.
I know the risk of drafting QB early. Believe me I know. I was totally against drafting Carr. I wanted J Peppers. But that was a different situation. We had no foundation what so ever on the OL. Now we have a top tier LT and C and a couple of decent young players in Brooks and Quisinbarry. Hell I actually think Newton could possibly be a serviceable LG. possibly!
Add a high second round pick to that and a decent FA and the OL could turn around quickly.
Throw in the fact that manzel and bridgewater are both very good at avoiding the rush and this really is a no brainer if one or both test well AND are available when we pick.
Now if neither is available and or they don't test well then I'm all in on Mathews or one of the other top OL.
I agree with you philosophy. however 3 things make me want to go in a different direction.
1. Clowney is a once in a generation type pass rusher. 2. As Texian said at the top of Scherff,Ogbuehi,Hurst,Hickey should all be available in the 2nd rd and will have long careers.
3. I'm leery of taking a QB in this draft. I would rather use next season to see if Keenum can be the future at QB. If not I like Hogan or Petty in 2015 more than any QB in this yrs daft.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
I just don't see a guy in this draft who is that "probably can't miss" franchise QB. I don't see him. I watched Bridgewater against UH like many of you and I came away very meh on him. Nor do I believe that Manziel is going to pan out like so many here do. I don't think he'll be effective for long in the NFL.
I don't see the next Luck or RGIII waiting on us and so I would prefer we tread water for a year and select the other half of our "bookends" in the form of Matthews. Then we can come back and look at the QB's coming out in 2015.
That's just my opinion. We're going to see what happens one way or the other in the years to come.
I don't see the next Luck or RGIII waiting on us and so I would prefer we tread water for a year and select the other half of our "bookends" in the form of Matthews. Then we can come back and look at the QB's coming out in 2015.
That's just my opinion. We're going to see what happens one way or the other in the years to come.
What's the chances we have a real opportunity to draft either of those guys next year? I'm fine with clowney or Mathews or BPA. Just as long as we don't pass up a franchise QB. Obviously we will know more after the combine.
We should of sold out for RG3 like I wanted to. Luck and RG3 were rare talents. They don't come along often. If you are holding out for one of them you are in for a long wait. I don't know if there is a franchise guy in this draft or not. Again we will know more after the combine. At this point this is all there is to be excited about. We have a chance to get a rare talent in clowney or a stud OL In Mathews or maybe just maybe finally a franchise QB. I can't wait to see who our new coach is going to be. It will be fun trying to figure out what he will be looking for.
Man I wish this was week 18.
The Redskins were able to trade up, the Giants for Eli, Ravens for Flacco etc.... so it can be done. I dont see a QB in this draft that will be as good as Matt Ryan. Forget about a Manning/Brady/Brees/Luck in this draft.
bhsman
Rookie
I can't say I agree; RG3 is legit but at the time we had Schaub entering a contract year and would eventually be extended. Giving up the bank for him would mean no Mercilus, no Brooks, no Jones, no Hopkins, and no Swearinger at a minimum (assuming it would cost more to move up from where we were relative to the Redskins).
Who knows, there could be a guy like Poe who comes out of nowhere. For the moment I say we focus on Clowney as long as we stay in top-3 range, trade-down for Manziel if we get into the 5-8 range and use the extra picks to build the trenches, and if we somehow get the #1 overall we kick back, pop the champagne, and wait for the phone calls.
No kidding, I'd already been done with my first semester of law school. Only a 15-page paper and hell on earth to go...
aussie_texan
Veteran
i don't think its an over reaction. Daniels is a top 10 TE when healthy but he hasn't been for a while and is only getting older and is a strong candidate for getting released and to me GG is exactly the worth of a 4th rounder ...JAG.
I would like to see a playmaker at the position.
especially if your going to keep keenum has your starter next year.
Texian
Hall of Fame
This week 11/19/13 the Houston Texans have the #3 pick in the 2014 NFL Draft.
http://www.gbnreport.com/weeklydraftorder.html
http://www.gbnreport.com/weeklydraftorder.html
Fo me it's a toss up between Clowney and Matthews.
Which way would you go?
Or is Johnny Football your pick? I would rather wait until 2015 see if Case is the guy and if he's not pick either Hogan/Petty.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
mussop, watching RGIII play this season he doesn't look like a rare talent to me. Maybe he's still hesitant to play like he did last year coming off the injury, but he's making a lot of mistakes and the 3-7 Redskins aren't much better than the Texans right now. There is talk of the Redskins cleaning house in the off-season and firing Mike Shanahan.
bhsman
Rookie
Clowney at #3 or trading down a few spots and grabbing Manziel. Either way, you can find good, talented tackles in the high second round.
Texian
Hall of Fame
At this juncture I would go Johnny Football for the simple reasons that at present the Texans have no answer at QB to respond to Andrew Luck. Assuming the Jags will draft Bridgewater or Mariota (and not JF) there is no answer to respond to them either. One thing about Johnny Football, he knows how to respond, JF has to score 50 if the Aggies want a chance to win because their defense is going to give up 40. JF has been pretty good at putting up those winning numbers.
Conventional wisdom says rookie NFL QBs need 19 games starting before you know what you have. So far the jury is out on Keenum and by the results so far that jury could be out for a while. If Case is not the answer, then what? You're another 2-3 years behind the 8 ball. Plus there is no guarantee the Texans will be in this position next year. I say strike when you can when the fire is hot. If the Texans win 6-7 games in 2014, Hogan and Petty could be out of the picture. Hopefully Case turns out to be above average. If that's case you have a QB ready should Manziel stubb his stout toe. If Manziel turns out to be as advertised and Case performs well, Keenum in a best case scenario might be worth a Carson Palmer ( a 1) trade or an Alex Smith (a 2 and 3) trade. Either way you've protected yourself and made sure that you've a QB who can compete with Luck, Bridgewater or Mariota.
Texian
Hall of Fame
I can't say I agree; RG3 is legit but at the time we had Schaub entering a contract year and would eventually be extended. Giving up the bank for him would mean no Mercilus, no Brooks, no Jones, no Hopkins, and no Swearinger at a minimum (assuming it would cost more to move up from where we were relative to the Redskins).
Who knows, there could be a guy like Poe who comes out of nowhere. For the moment I say we focus on Clowney as long as we stay in top-3 range, trade-down for Manziel if we get into the 5-8 range and use the extra picks to build the trenches, and if we somehow get the #1 overall we kick back, pop the champagne, and wait for the phone calls.
No kidding, I'd already been done with my first semester of law school. Only a 15-page paper and hell on earth to go...
The Texans could've have included Schaub, Winston, Vickers, Ryans and Jones along with draft picks as part of deal to move.....just saying.
Let's be clear, Schaub was Kubiak's guy, Gary had invested 2 twos to get Matt. To go all in for RGIII would mean Gary would have to admit failure or that he had just made a 2 twos mistake. That wasn't going to happen. Why? Because we know Gary Kubiak is not Jimmy Johnson.
More like Schaub & his contract had outlived their usefulness .... not so much a mistake at the time they made the deal because Schaub did perform well for several seasons.
I don't think anyone expected Schaub to go from serviceable to historically bad. No one expected him to put the team on his shoulders either - all he had to do was manage the game & take what the defense gave. They built the team around his deficiencies with a strong defense and running game.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Nobody knew you liked Johnny Football .
I would bet JF goes closer to the top of the 2nd than the top of the 1st .
Nobody knew you liked Johnny Football .
I would bet JF goes closer to the top of the 2nd than the top of the 1st .
Man I don't know .... Is he a huge gamble ? Absolutely.
Will some QB needy team make that gamble early .... I'm almost certain of it.
What he's able to do is awful special , I just wonder how it translates to the NFL , then I watch Keenum escape pressure and Manziel is much better in that aspect ... It could work.
Manziel would probably be best suited to another year in college where he could work on reading defenses among other things ... but its hard to leave that kinda $$$ on the table and it will be just as hard for NFL teams to leave that type of potential for someone behind them to take.
What if he wins back to back Heisman trophy's ...
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
I think guys like Johnny get penalized because of the height . This will hurt Boyd and Murray also . Guys like Mariota and Hundley will go higher because of their size but they don't have the experience as these guys .
If I was going to buy stock in a prospect hoping to put a little in and make a bunch it would be with Hundley . If I was going to take a guy trying to copy Seattle and Russell Wilson in the 3rd , it would be Aarron Murray .
Texian
Hall of Fame
The reason I wanted the Texans to go all in for RGIII had nothing to do with Schaub and everything to do with Andrew Luck. I felt at the time if the Texans didn't do something to counter the Luck draft pick it wouldn't be long before the Colts were back a top of the division. I still think this will be the case. Schaub at best was a short term fire wall. It now appears the fire wall has been breached and the Texans have assumed the position of healthcare.gov and they still haven't done anything to respond to the Andrew Luck draft pick.
The way things stand today the Texans again will have to borrow from 2015, 2016 and 2017 to meet the minimum 2014 financial obligations. One can only imagine how much the mortgaged will be and how BAD it will be if Kubiak gets another "Hot Seat" reprieve. The Colts begin 2014 $40 million under the cap.
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And what does Hundley have other than slightly better measureables over Manzel?
Texian
Hall of Fame
Nobody knew you liked Johnny Football .
I would bet JF goes closer to the top of the 2nd than the top of the 1st .
#1 Points Responsible For per Game = Johnny Manziel http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/747
#1 Points Responsible For = Johnny Manziel http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/692
#1 Completion Percentage = Johnny Manziel http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/755
#3 Passing Efficiency = Johnny Manziel http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/8
#3 Passing TDs = Johnny Manziel http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/751
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
A draft is a projection to the next level , that's it . Hundley is a big , athletic , smart guy with a big arm . Johnny Football is a good player but the projection is how will he do in the pros . Do y'all think JF will be held in the same regard as Michael Vick ? That's the only 6 foot QB I know who went high in the 1st round .
To be honest , of all the QB's who may go in the first year this round I like Hundley the least ....
I think Manziel has the highest upside and the biggest bust potential.
Murray is probably under rated by most and I probably under value McCarron ....
Bridgewater is probably over rated .... and I dunno what to think about Mariota.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Hundley is a red shirt soph playing behind 3 freshman OL . The talent is there IMO , he just has to make things happen this year . If he were to go back to UCLA with a year under the OLs belt , and with the talent on that team , Hundley would be the #1 pick in 2015 .
If short QBs have big hands , it's not that big a deal . Russell Wilson and Drew Brees both have 10 inch hands . So does Andrew Luck and Johnny Football has big hands and wears a size 15 shoe .
aussie_texan
Veteran
^^^^^
this!!! but i would include along side hogan/petty hundley and winston
Texian
Hall of Fame
From the 3 games I have watched Hundley I have seen nothing that says he's an NFL QB and everything that says he should return to school and I think he will after he reads his NFL evaluation.
Reminiscent of the many things said about Logan Thomas with the same comparisons to Cam Newton. And we see how that turned out.
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Texian
Hall of Fame
While Michael Vick a redshirt Soph declaring for the draft compares to what Manziel will likely do. Michael Vick wasn't even close to accomplishing what Manziel has done on the football field so far.
As a Freshman Vick threw for 1840 yds, completed 58% of his passes, rushed for 580 yards, 12 Passing TDs, 5 INTs and 8 Rushing TDs.
Freshman Manziel threw for 3706 yds, completed 68% of his passes, rushed for 1410 yards, 26 Passing TDs, 9 INTs, 21 Rushing TDs.
Manziel threw for more yards as a Freshman than Vick threw for as a Freshman and Sophomore combined 3706 vs 3279; Rushing yards 1410 vs 1216; Passing TDs 26 vs 21; Rushing TDs 21 vs 17. From a production standpoint, Manziel is twice as good as Michael Vick, if not more.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Michael Vick freshman season: 182 passing attempts, threw for 11.3 yards per attempt, 131 rushing attempts
Johnny Manziel freshman season: 434 passing attempts, threw for 8.1 yards per attempt, 201 rushing attempts.
You're embarrassing man.
Texian
Hall of Fame
So without trying to embarrass me or you, who had the better Freshman season? Vick accounted for 20 TDs and Manziel 47 TDs. and why are Manziel's Freshman numbers 2X more Vick's Freshman and Sophomore numbers combined?
I know you're a Manziel hater, so it might be best for you to just ignore me instead of trolling all my Manziel comments. Either that or just get over it.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Just need to expose your choice number's comparisons. They are embarrassing. Comparing total passing yards when one player has nearly 250% of the passing attempts as the other. Also with a lower yards per attempt, but of course you didn't include that.
Carry on with your nut hugging. That's what your last 50 posts have done, and the next 50 will likely be the same.
Carry on with your nut hugging. That's what your last 50 posts have done, and the next 50 will likely be the same.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Don't hate me cause I like Manziel. Not everyone is going to be a Manziel hater like you. The only one embarrassed may be you. Sorry I am not embarrassed.
As a Freshman Manziel accounted for 47 TDs, Vick for 20 TDs . Are you embarrassed for Vick?
With 2 games to go Manziel has accounted for 86 TDs in 2 seasons, with 2 full seasons Vick has accounted for 38 TDs and Vick was the #1 Draft pick.
And regarding my statement, Michael Vick wasn't even close to accomplishing what Manziel has done on the football field so far. TRUE
Simmer Down - Donna Summer
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
There's a difference between being a hater and correcting your choice statistics. Just like when you neglected to mention the 3 interceptions he had in the previous game.
Look at your last 50 posts if you want to see what a troll looks like. Basically, all you do is find posts about Manziel and then reply about how is he "Johnny Texan" the god of football. It's goofy.
All I have done is add context to your biased statistical posts.
Look at your last 50 posts if you want to see what a troll looks like. Basically, all you do is find posts about Manziel and then reply about how is he "Johnny Texan" the god of football. It's goofy.
All I have done is add context to your biased statistical posts.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Go back and check all the post and find out how many were part of a conversation, and how many you interrupted, butted in the conversation. When you find out report back. There's no doubt, your a Mansiel hater. Why, I have no idea but I expect you will be at odds with anyone who does like Johnny or doesn't write their Manziel comments or present their Manziel numbers exactly as you want them posted.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Sorry if passing attempts, yards per attempt and passer rating don't mean anything to you. God forbid people insert context to your posts when you don't provide it.
I'll leave you to your JF penis caressing.
bhsman
Rookie
Manziel has more passing attempts because he is a better passer, though? He's more proficient at it than Vick was, so he passed more often. He's probably the best passer in the class after Bridgewater, looking at stats and competition. His talent for running is key, but I don't think he's quite the same as Vick's 'Check read and run' style, or at least has improved upon this from his freshman year.
It's not a zero-sum player where a proficiency for passing or rushing means deficiency in the other; Manziel is just adept at both.
FWIW I'm an LSU fan so I'm the LAST person who wants to see Manziel do well right now.
Surprise, surprise, it IS possible to like Manziel without being an Aggie.
It's not a zero-sum player where a proficiency for passing or rushing means deficiency in the other; Manziel is just adept at both.
FWIW I'm an LSU fan so I'm the LAST person who wants to see Manziel do well right now.
Surprise, surprise, it IS possible to like Manziel without being an Aggie.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Michael Vick made his money running wild vs Nebraska his frshman year in the championship game . Didn't Gino Torretta and Danny Wuerfell win Heismans and put up big numbers ?
The funny thing to me is , why promote one guy so steadfastly
, we can't pick him . All we are doing is talking players and killing time by trying to guess who the Texans need or will take .
6'3" 210 is built like a linebacker ?!
Texian
Hall of Fame
I'm going to do you a favor here and put you on ignore. When you're capable of having a discussion without the juvenile frat boy references and more of an adult conversation have someone message me and maybe one day we can continue our conversation.
Michael Vick made his money running wild vs Nebraska his frshman year in the championship game . Didn't Gino Torretta and Danny Wuerfell win Heismans and put up big numbers ?
The funny thing to me is , why promote one guy so steadfastly
I thought that is exactly what I was doing.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
I bet Hundley goes 6'3 235 lbs .
Texian ... we're talikng players , you're talking player .
Texian
Hall of Fame
Texian ... we're talikng players , you're talking player .
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2253719&postcount=2
I can't be responsible for what posts you selectively choose to read.
Did you not ask......" Do y'all think JF will be held in the same regard as Michael Vick ? That's the only 6 foot QB I know who went high in the 1st round ."
I thought you were looking for a response or was this strictly rhetorical?
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
It doesn't matter to me , I think it's funny . My point on JF is how he will be viewed by the NFL and that is he'll get penalized for not being 6'4 .
This is why the poster said Hundley was built like a LB.
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
bhsman
Rookie
I think we're focusing on Manziel mostly because he:
1) Plays the position of quarterback
2) He's very, very, very good at it on the college level and is being evaluated for his work there
3) He's probably a first-round selection, whether by us or someone else.
I don't see the problem in discussing him than the people who want to talk about us drafting Jake Matthews. By comparison to the 'safe' pick in Matthews, Manziel generates just more discussion due to his position, his history, and how the media portrays him.
1) Plays the position of quarterback
2) He's very, very, very good at it on the college level and is being evaluated for his work there
3) He's probably a first-round selection, whether by us or someone else.
I don't see the problem in discussing him than the people who want to talk about us drafting Jake Matthews. By comparison to the 'safe' pick in Matthews, Manziel generates just more discussion due to his position, his history, and how the media portrays him.