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Does either Yates or Keenum give you a better chance to win that Schaub.
- Thread starter Corrosion
- Start date
eriadoc
Texan-American
We all have our doubts. But we don't know. We DO know about Schaub. So let's find out what we don't know.
That's where Im at - I know what Schaub is (washed up) , I know what Yates is (A backup) .... have no earthly idea what Keenum is.
Yeah I would rather give Keenum the start over Yates just because I know that Yates is not anything more than a backup. I think there's a 0.5% that Keenum is the next Tom Brady, but I know that there's a 0% that Schaub is going to get us to the SB
I'm ready to believe anything that would help me believe this team is still on track & can contend for a Super Bowl. Anything.
Tell me that Matt gives us the best option because of his experience, his understanding of the play book, his ability to get us out of a bad play.
But don't tell me that clumsy son of a gun is the most talented QB on the roster. He doesn't have the strongest arm. He's not the quickest of foot. He's not particularly crafty. He doesn't have mad hops (not that that would help him as a QB)... he is the least talented player on the whole roster & that includes the fat hobbit.
DX-TEX
#TomSavageDontCare
Seth Payne just showed a bad omen on Ch 11. He talked and showed how the Niners knew Schuabs tendancies and fully baited him into the interceptions just like the Seahawks did. This will continue against EVERY defense this year.
RTP2110
All Pro
There's nothing that Schaub does that you immediately say Yates/Keenum can't. Surely not physically, and now I don't think mentally either. The unknown on the backups is their decision making, but at this point Schaub's decision making is horrible. I can not think of one thing Schaub does well enough to justify him being irreplaceable.
eriadoc
Texan-American
Decision making? 8 INTs on the season.
Knowledge of the offense? How many halves have resulted in a TD or less so far this season?
Arm strength? Let's not kid ourselves.
Makes plays with his feet? HA!
Pocket presence and awareness? Well, there was one play today where he showed tremendous anticipation and curled up on the ground before he was ever touched.
Quick release? No more so than Yates and less so than Keenum.
What am I missing? Play fake? He's not even doing that as well as he has in years past. What is the one thing that Schaub does as well or better than any other top 12 QB in the NFL.
Scooter
Funky
we know about schaub. yates is a backup. you cant hold today against yates because he had no chance to do anything productive, but i've seen nothing that tells me he's a starter. yates doesnt see the field well enough to play against first stringers. i trust him to know the gameplan and manage his time on the field efficiently, and am fine with him playing 2nd string.
case is the wildcard. all the tools, minus height and experience. case is the starter that yates isnt. he isnt really someone you want coming in to manage someone else's gameplan like yates. keenum is someone you want to design a gameplan for.
case is the wildcard. all the tools, minus height and experience. case is the starter that yates isnt. he isnt really someone you want coming in to manage someone else's gameplan like yates. keenum is someone you want to design a gameplan for.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Complete assumption on your part. Absolutely no evidence to support these statements. We know nothing about Keenum. I'm fine with giving him a shot. But his fanboys on here are out of control. We have no idea how good or bad he would play.
Completely dismissing Yates but propping up Keenum at the same time is ridiculous.
Scooter
Funky
not a fan boy. i dont watch college ball and have no crazy attachments to hometown kids, i hate that it's assumed anyone promoting keenum is doing so irrationally.
yes, it's a complete assumption on my part. keenum hasnt played a down and yates has 5(?) games under his belt. it's all educated guesses. i just posted mine based on experience and my own diagnosis.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
As a UH grad who watched this kid play...i completely agree. There's absolutely nothing this kid has done to date that leads you to the conclusion he can be a starter in this league.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Wasn't specifically calling you out as a fanboy, was just making a point. His hype on this board is ridiculous right now. People need to tone it way down.
This is where I'm at.
Put a fork in Schaub. It's obvious and it's time.
I've always liked TJ for nothing but the first playoff win, but I don't see anything special in him when he's gotten some snaps since then.
And Keenum is the great unknown, although overlooked by 31 other teams completely...for a couple of years now.
What a bummer. This team is loaded with talent in so many areas but the most important one. And my lingering doubts about the coaching staff never seem to completely disappear.
Come On Breh
Waterboy
schaub's piss poor play has given kubiak an out to make a change. schaub has been so awful that its actually given you the impetus to try something different.
make schaub sit on the bench and just mentally regroup.
OPEN AN HONEST COMPETITION for the starting qb spot for case and yates. Split the reps in practice between the two and start the winner in st. louis. just based on the results in preseason, the battle was close so it makes it warranted to not just start yates but to see if keenum can beat out yates in practice.
make schaub sit on the bench and just mentally regroup.
OPEN AN HONEST COMPETITION for the starting qb spot for case and yates. Split the reps in practice between the two and start the winner in st. louis. just based on the results in preseason, the battle was close so it makes it warranted to not just start yates but to see if keenum can beat out yates in practice.
Trail.Blazr
Hooked up to a Kool-Aid IV
Ding! we have a winner. Too bad Indy gets the concept. Ahhhh.. here's to another decade of watching the Colts win the division.
So what's the salary cap hit to cut Schaub?
I have watched every game in which I didn't have to work, or had some kind of major family conflict. I think I have missed something like maybe 5 games because of the issues mentioned above. I've watch every play of this franchise with the exception of the 5 games mentioned, and the fourth quarter of the Titans game they made a come back on years ago with Al the field goals, the Packers and Pats (regular season) last year and the last 5 minutes of this game.
This team is too talented to have the results it has so far. I'm boycotting until someone, anyone other than Schaub starts at quarterback. If Kubiak start Schaub I won't tune in. TJ and Case may not be the answer and may lose us every game they start, but we have enough tape on Schaub going back to last years collapse to know he isn't the QB he was back in 2010. He is at best a back up now.
I'm just sad that we are another embarrassing loss or two away from officially being in retooling mode for next year for coaching and systems and that means Andre Johnson will never get a chance at a ring unless he demands a trade next season.
I wasn't completely against resigning Schaub at the time, but wow the amount was very steep for a guy that crumbled late in the season last year.
This isn't anything new with Schaub we have film showing he isn't what he used to be. We should have traded in the offseason, now we are stuck in salary cap hell and missing the window the Texans had for a Super Bowl run.
I have watched every game in which I didn't have to work, or had some kind of major family conflict. I think I have missed something like maybe 5 games because of the issues mentioned above. I've watch every play of this franchise with the exception of the 5 games mentioned, and the fourth quarter of the Titans game they made a come back on years ago with Al the field goals, the Packers and Pats (regular season) last year and the last 5 minutes of this game.
This team is too talented to have the results it has so far. I'm boycotting until someone, anyone other than Schaub starts at quarterback. If Kubiak start Schaub I won't tune in. TJ and Case may not be the answer and may lose us every game they start, but we have enough tape on Schaub going back to last years collapse to know he isn't the QB he was back in 2010. He is at best a back up now.
I'm just sad that we are another embarrassing loss or two away from officially being in retooling mode for next year for coaching and systems and that means Andre Johnson will never get a chance at a ring unless he demands a trade next season.
I wasn't completely against resigning Schaub at the time, but wow the amount was very steep for a guy that crumbled late in the season last year.
This isn't anything new with Schaub we have film showing he isn't what he used to be. We should have traded in the offseason, now we are stuck in salary cap hell and missing the window the Texans had for a Super Bowl run.
EVOLVIST
Kid A
Well, yeah, you're right; people do need to tone it down about Keenum a bit, but I can't say I blame folks. I think most of us see a spark in Keenum that certainly the other two lack. Say what you will about the kid, but he's always been a winner. Keenum has a great football mind - and correct me if I'm wrong - but I believe it's that mind that made him the only undrafted QB on Gruden's silly little predraft QB show.
The point is, if he sh!ts the bed, fine. Fans just want to know.
Scooter
Funky
understandable. i remember vince young but i'm not getting that vibe at all. certainly there are some fan boys who think he's joe montana already, but a lot of what i've seen is opinions similar to my own. case has a toolset that i dont see in schaub or yates. and yates' downfall in opinion based regards seem to be that he's similar to schaub. analysis tells me that he's almost sage rosenfels, a guy you trust to execute the gameplan, not one you build around.
for me case's eyes move quicker, he has shown me that he goes through progressions faster than both schaub and yates. case is obviously the most mobile of the group. in similar situations he moves better within the pocket than either schaub or yates - a big weakness for both. arm strength is about a push, none are particularly great. decision making with live bullets is an unknown - schaub used to be really good, yates was poor as a rookie but has improved quite a bit, and we dont know with keenum. pre-snap reads is tougher to analyze - i think it's a weakness of schaub's, i dont know where to put yates, and coming out of college it was arguably keenum's biggest strength. accuracy, i think yates leads schaub here, but again i give keenum the edge based on what i've seen - passes landing on a dime that i havent seen either yates or schaub make.
point by point, i think keenum has the best skillset on the team. that doesnt knock down the other two, it is just a bonus for the one player. whether that translates into NFL starter is always an unknown. guys come out every season with a set of exceptional skills that dont stand a chance at succeeding at the next level. keenum may very well fall into that category, but in my opinion it's silly not to see if he can turn talent into success.
Come On Breh
Waterboy
we will never know unless we try.
:kubepalm:
:kubepalm:
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
I would start Case Keenum at home versus the Rams on Sunday. Why wait? Of course, I heard Gary Kubiak say Schaub was still the starter so he better get it done. I anticipate a 5th straight pick-six game but hopefully the Texans find a way to beat the Rams despite Schaub's interceptions.
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
All the experts are saying schaub gives us the best chance to win. Its over
Grams
Veteran
Exactly.
Don't know what happened to Schaub, but something happened. He has not been the same since the bye week last season.
deucetx
Rookie
Same here. I felt Schaub gave us the best chance to win but I can't say that with any confidence what so ever. The team needs a spark. They look defeated and there was a noticeable lack of energy out there especially among the veterans. This is not the Schaub of the past and that is becoming abundently clear now.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Watching Schaub fall apart is eerily reminiscent of what happened to Brad Lidge. Neither Yates or Keenum are franchise QB's so this team is back at square 1.
You can say what you want on keenum. but I've seen this kid play since he competed against blake his rookie year.
He has one thing that both schaub and yates do not have, he's got a killer instinct. that drive to kill your opponent. he'll take risks that the other qb's won't.
Schaub is playing with fear. TJ doesn't have that edge but listens to the coach. all this talk about keenum not measuring up because of his arm strength and lack of experience is BS.
If he's not good enough, why did they keep him when they could have gotten a more significant player on the team?
One thing is for sure, Keenum isn't going to throw 9 int in 5 games plus the pick 6's. He isn't going to a fetal position either when the pocket closes.
Keenum is going to make the defenses pay for trying to blitz. We've got too many better players other than schaub to be not scoring at ravens, 49'ers, and 2nd half seahawks games.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX5Ji77NMQY
He has one thing that both schaub and yates do not have, he's got a killer instinct. that drive to kill your opponent. he'll take risks that the other qb's won't.
Schaub is playing with fear. TJ doesn't have that edge but listens to the coach. all this talk about keenum not measuring up because of his arm strength and lack of experience is BS.
If he's not good enough, why did they keep him when they could have gotten a more significant player on the team?
One thing is for sure, Keenum isn't going to throw 9 int in 5 games plus the pick 6's. He isn't going to a fetal position either when the pocket closes.
Keenum is going to make the defenses pay for trying to blitz. We've got too many better players other than schaub to be not scoring at ravens, 49'ers, and 2nd half seahawks games.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX5Ji77NMQY
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
You guys can continue to say this but you haven't seen squat from Keenum in a real game. Let's at least see him in there in at least two games and see what he is capable of before claiming that. We have seen Yates for half a season. Keenum is faster then Yates and has a better and more accurate arm and a better knack for running around to make something happen. The only thing he lacks compared to TJ is size which isn't always as important of a factor as it is suggested.
The1ApplePie
Hall of Fame
Sorry UH fanboys, but it is either going to be Yates or Schaub. Keenum won't be seeing the field.
The Texans just did a piss poor job at the backup spot. The freaking Browns had more depth.
There is not Matt Cassel, Matt Moore, Kyle Orton, or even a Chad Henne on the roster.
The Texans just did a piss poor job at the backup spot. The freaking Browns had more depth.
There is not Matt Cassel, Matt Moore, Kyle Orton, or even a Chad Henne on the roster.
we're aware that keenum won't start. and you know what, neither will yates for that matter. carry on aggie or longhorn fans.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
So you're hitching your wagon to the hopes Keenum will be another Brady or Warner? Bless your heart, a true Houston sports fan.
Can we beat the Rams by running the ball?
If we can put together a game plan where we stop trying to fix Matt (WTF were we doing throwing the ball in the second half of the Seahawks game?), get through a game without throwing the ball, maybe we can get Matt on track.
I'm serious. Forget about throwing the ball. Just run it. If we don't pick up a first down, if it's 3 & 38...... we were going to run a draw or a PoS screen anyway. Just line up to run the ball & go. If we get it, we get it. If we don't..... punt. Let the defense prove they're as good as we want them to be.
St Louis has the 29th ranked offense in the league, they get in their own way, much like our QB gets in ours.
They are 22nd in total defense, 27th against the run.... we should be able to put 14 points on the board against these guys without throwing the ball.
Doing this we can prove that we can win games without Schaub making mistakes. I'm sure the defense already believes this, but we need the team to believe it.
& I'd do the same thing against the KC Chiefs & their 21st ranked run defense. Makes no sense to test their 4th ranked passing defense. Get two wins under our belts before the bye, get Schaub some distance from those pick 6es.
We need to learn to get this team on track, stay on schedule. 3rd & 4 or shorter. Keep the other team from scoring... period.
I know it's not easy to win without a QB, but it looks like we're going to be playing the rest of the season without a QB. We need to game plan a way to make that happen. Maybe we can't get him benched, but maybe we can make him earn the right to throw the ball.
If we can put together a game plan where we stop trying to fix Matt (WTF were we doing throwing the ball in the second half of the Seahawks game?), get through a game without throwing the ball, maybe we can get Matt on track.
I'm serious. Forget about throwing the ball. Just run it. If we don't pick up a first down, if it's 3 & 38...... we were going to run a draw or a PoS screen anyway. Just line up to run the ball & go. If we get it, we get it. If we don't..... punt. Let the defense prove they're as good as we want them to be.
St Louis has the 29th ranked offense in the league, they get in their own way, much like our QB gets in ours.
They are 22nd in total defense, 27th against the run.... we should be able to put 14 points on the board against these guys without throwing the ball.
Doing this we can prove that we can win games without Schaub making mistakes. I'm sure the defense already believes this, but we need the team to believe it.
& I'd do the same thing against the KC Chiefs & their 21st ranked run defense. Makes no sense to test their 4th ranked passing defense. Get two wins under our belts before the bye, get Schaub some distance from those pick 6es.
We need to learn to get this team on track, stay on schedule. 3rd & 4 or shorter. Keep the other team from scoring... period.
I know it's not easy to win without a QB, but it looks like we're going to be playing the rest of the season without a QB. We need to game plan a way to make that happen. Maybe we can't get him benched, but maybe we can make him earn the right to throw the ball.
Trail.Blazr
Hooked up to a Kool-Aid IV
That's not what I read out of the post. Not even an inkling that Keenum is a HOF caliber. On the contrary, he's suggesting before declaring Keenum as Bum, first, let's give the kid a chance to prove one way or another what he can do.
I heard "I don't want to hear Jose Wales dead.... I want to see Jose Wales dead"
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Thunder you are the infinite optimist and I admire that, but you do know what the literal definition of crazy is right?
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
I understand the sentiment, even appreciate it, but if Keenum was the best QB we had he would be playing. On the other hand, Buffalo will be trotting out a practice squad QB on Sunday, maybe it can work
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Great way of creating words and statements I never said. How about sticking to what I did say which was to see what Keenum has since the other two options are a flat footed rubber armed PIck six king, and back up version of Schaub with slightly more mobility who is a check down machine just like Schaub. You've already seen what you got with those two, and Keenum has several intangibles neither one of these guys does have. I never once stated that Keenum will become some top 10 QB in this league for sure, but I'd like to see what he can do with all these weapons. It's better at this point then going with the alternatives. If Case stinks it up, then worse case scenario you are still in the same boat you were before at QB. But continuing to roll with Schaub is just moronic at this point. He is damaged goods.
Come On Breh
Waterboy
can we at least let keenum fail first before saying he cant do it?
can we at least find out?
can we at least find out?
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
I'm sorry I don't share your enthusiasm, my apologies if I jumped the gun, but Keenum didnt impress me much against 3rd string defenses/schemes in the preseason or inflated college stats in a subpar conference running a gimmicky offense kinda like Andre Ware, didn't work out too well for Andre. I agree the status quo at the position needs to change,
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Tex, I just read another one of your posts where you do throw out some names like Warner,Rodgers,Wilson etc..
Isn't that the secret hope amongst the Keenum contingent? He would waltz in on a white horse and save the day?
If only real life were like those fairy tales.
Isn't that the secret hope amongst the Keenum contingent? He would waltz in on a white horse and save the day?
If only real life were like those fairy tales.
Come On Breh
Waterboy
how about this for a novel idea?
How about having a competition to EARN the starting QB spot?
Split the reps in practice vs 1st team defense between Yates and Keenum, whoever does better starts.
What's wrong with having to earn it instead of being handed it to you because of seniority or status?
How about having a competition to EARN the starting QB spot?
Split the reps in practice vs 1st team defense between Yates and Keenum, whoever does better starts.
What's wrong with having to earn it instead of being handed it to you because of seniority or status?
I gotta' be honest, I don't think Kubiak will ever be able to find a championship potential QB. The ones on his resume that he's worked with were always picked by other head coaches and GMs. Mainly Elway and Young. But Gary has never picked an elite QB on his own.
He looks for himself in QBs. Perpetual backups that just need "someone to believe in them".
He won't use a high pick on a QB just like he will never use a high pick on a RB. It is my belief that he thinks he can coach up players, and to a certain extent, he's right. But you cannot make chicken salad out of chicken crap. A QB must be intelligent and probably more important, be clutch when it truly matters. I don't think either Schaub or Yates has that clutch factor, and the jury is still out on Keenum in that regard.
Face it, Texans fans, this is one of "those seasons". Long haul war of attrition, testing our resolve as a fan base, and I have little doubt that Kubiak will trot Schaub out there every week in spite of the obvious evidence, and McNair will continue to support Kubiak until we have another 2-14 meltdown season and he has no choice but to let him go.
Such is the way of the Houston Texans. We are fans, but that doesn't mean we have to be happy about being told it's raining when getting peed on by this coaching staff and FO.
He looks for himself in QBs. Perpetual backups that just need "someone to believe in them".
He won't use a high pick on a QB just like he will never use a high pick on a RB. It is my belief that he thinks he can coach up players, and to a certain extent, he's right. But you cannot make chicken salad out of chicken crap. A QB must be intelligent and probably more important, be clutch when it truly matters. I don't think either Schaub or Yates has that clutch factor, and the jury is still out on Keenum in that regard.
Face it, Texans fans, this is one of "those seasons". Long haul war of attrition, testing our resolve as a fan base, and I have little doubt that Kubiak will trot Schaub out there every week in spite of the obvious evidence, and McNair will continue to support Kubiak until we have another 2-14 meltdown season and he has no choice but to let him go.
Such is the way of the Houston Texans. We are fans, but that doesn't mean we have to be happy about being told it's raining when getting peed on by this coaching staff and FO.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I understand the sentiment, even appreciate it, but if Keenum was the best QB we had he would be playing. On the other hand, Buffalo will be trotting out a practice squad QB on Sunday, maybe it can work
I guess then we can also take it that the Texans decision-making process to this point has been unflawed, since Schaub was still our QB after all the messes he had repeatedly created single-handedly.
blitz90
jock strap
You know their going to keep marching Schaub out there. Gary is loyal to a fault.
With that said though, at the very MINIMUM, Yates and/or Keenum should see some 1st team reps in practice so it will put No. 8 on notice.
If that doesn't happen then the offensive coaching is a joke and needs to be gone.
With that said though, at the very MINIMUM, Yates and/or Keenum should see some 1st team reps in practice so it will put No. 8 on notice.
If that doesn't happen then the offensive coaching is a joke and needs to be gone.
I'm not being optimistic, I'm trying to understand what Kubiak is thinking. Matt's going through a slump, Kubiak thinks he can get him out. But we need to get wins while we "fix" Matt.
3 game losing streak...... that's got to stop & Matt throwing the ball is not going to help us. The Ravens' injury rattled D, looked brilliant against us. The Seahawks struggling offense scored enough points to hang with the Broncos. The 49ers D was missing their primary pass rusher & had a 3rd stringer on our best WR.
I don't want to test the Rams secondary, not with Matt playing the way he's playing. I definitely don't want to test the Chiefs secondary with the way they're playing & the way Matt is playing.
But Schaub is going to start & we need a W.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
I guess then we can take it that the Texans decision-making process to this point has been unflawed, since Schaub was still our QB after all the messes he had repeatedly created single-handedly.
The deductive reasoning process starts to weed out the culprits. Bill Cowher would probably baptize Case with fire, but not good Ol' Koobs.
If you send out Case you will lose more games due to growing pains and the such and this season will be lost, Kubuak isn't trying to commit career suicide just yet.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
This gives new meaning to the Texans use of the term "EXCLUSIVITY."