Hey, I'm looking at McClain as a back-up, which is the norm for a third-rounder.
On top of that McClain is cheap.
He only costs 555K, less than Jared Crick or any fourth rounder we sign this year.
He's like $220K cheaper than Jamison.
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NT Concern...
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Hey, I'm looking at McClain as a back-up, which is the norm for a third-rounder.
On top of that McClain is cheap.
He only costs 555K, less than Jared Crick or any fourth rounder we sign this year.
He's like $220K cheaper than Jamison.
Blake
MMQB
Yeah I was just taking a cheap shot at Okoye. You think the Texans will carry 3 D tackles?
The line is kinda of blurry with Wade on how he uses the interior guy.
All I know is I think I agree with those who say we will carry at least 6 interior D-linemen, with at least one on the PS.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I wish it WERE an ACL. It was an Achilles though. No word I've seen. But I would be skeptical as to how much production he would show before the latter part of the season.........and would have to worry about the level of production beyond that. I don't remember reports of him undergoing surgery for it. I hope that they did not opt for nonoperative rehab.....the re-rupture rate and rate of successful recovery is not acceptable
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Soooo... are you saying it's time to
Panic may not be the term I'd use. But I would be looking at ANY significant contribution to this season to be somewhat of a pleasant surprise, unless he suffered a very "minor" tear. Although this would not make sense since he was placed on IR as soon as mid October of last season.
I would have drafted both Jones and Hughes and put Jones on the practice squad until Antonio Smith is not with the team. I think Smith will be a cap casualty in a year or two. Hughes has character concerns but at least he is not a lazy guy who does not put in the time in the weight room and gets called out buy the coaches. Montgomery was on a list put up by LSU coaches saying that the listed players regularly miss workouts, always have an excuse, and only care about themselves. On top of that he is a 4-3 END, NOT A STRONGSIDE LINEBACKER. He will not be able to hold up in coverage. Tom Brady and his tight ends would exploit him to no end. Here is a scouting report from nfl.com so you can see what Hughes brings to the table. He would not have been a reach in the 3rd round IMO. Montori Hughes and is more talented than Jones and Hughes has the potential to command a double team, something that any team needs.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/montori-hughes?id=2539944
He is quick of the snap for a guy who weighs 330. Not as quick as Sylvester Williams but quick for a NT. I think he would have a good compliment to Mitchell. He would have also rarely been double teamed due to teams focusing on Watt. He is huge and can shoot a gap. I think he would have helped us in the run game. He was getting double teamed a lot in the game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYYZmz-TADc
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
He missed 1 workout. ONE.
He won't be asked to hold up in coverage. You think you know how to use Montgomery better than Wade and Herring do? Really? His job is to jam the hell out of the TE, to read run or pass and then stuff the run or get after the QB. He might be asked to play some zone but coverage is not his purpose.
Montori Hughes started off at the University of Tennessee and was suspended multiple times and ultimately dismissed.
Link
And something from your own link:
Montori Hughes is a lazier and much less athletic version of Travis Johnson. He's got danger flags all over him.
Sam Montgomery is a high motor player. The games he "took off" were games where LSU won by more than 30 points. He played his best in the higher pressure games.
I've watched Hughes and I wasn't impressed. He does nome nice things, but I think he's going to struggle big time in the NFL because his technique is bad and he doesn't play very strong.
I don't see any exceptional quickness either.
I would expect a guy like that to dominate the competition he was going against...especially at that position. I didn't see it. He fit right in with those guys.
We can agree to disagree on Hughes, no biggie.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I think Texans are gambling. They know what game results were with what they had.Add a hopeful 16 games from Cushing & expect Mitchell to continue 2013 how he ended 2012. Perhaps one of the back up NTs will shine or even the rookie. I was hopeful an ILB would have been taken in lower rounds. I'm going to watch Louis Nix Notre Dame nose and Andrew Jackson Western Kentucky LB and San Jose State QB David Fales this season.
Just to help me get my terminology straight.
If we release Antonio Smith before the start of the 2013 season, he will be considered a cap casualty. If he signs a contract somewhere else, $3M+, we might get a compensatory pick for him.
If we do not resign Antonio after the 2013 season, would we consider him a cap casualty?
Mario, Barwin, Dressen, Briesel, & Pollard weren't "cap casualties because they weren't cut or released. They were free agents we didn't sign.
Demeco (even though he was traded), Winston, Jacoby, & Walter were all cap casualties, since they were under contract & released (or traded) to provide cap relief.
Is that how y'all see it?
Well, first of all, the Texans has some $2.4M cap rollover from last year, so they had at least that much money to spend last year if they chose to do so.
As far as the players, we have to consider their individual case, and also add to it the overall impact of all the different moves during the off-season.
As far as the players, we have to consider their individual case, and also add to it the overall impact of all the different moves during the off-season.
Mario was definitely a cap casualty.
There was no way that the Texans can retain him, unless they restructured a whole bunch of contracts and push the deficit onto later years.
Or they would have to cut other guys with high cap space (Antonio for example).
Dreessen's new contract with the Broncos only took up $1.833M in cap space last year, so they could have resigned him if they wanted to (along the way, they probably cut a receiver who earned little just to make room on the roster, or any player really, from Barrett Rudd to Alan Ball to Shilo Keo - they may make little like in the $400-600K range; minimum guys.)
They would still be about a Mil under the cap.
If they feel comfortable without Dreessen, they can opt not to resign him so that they have the room to sign another player. In this case, it would be a cap relief.
You release some money at one position in order to sign another player at a different position.
There was no way that the Texans can retain him, unless they restructured a whole bunch of contracts and push the deficit onto later years.
Or they would have to cut other guys with high cap space (Antonio for example).
Dreessen's new contract with the Broncos only took up $1.833M in cap space last year, so they could have resigned him if they wanted to (along the way, they probably cut a receiver who earned little just to make room on the roster, or any player really, from Barrett Rudd to Alan Ball to Shilo Keo - they may make little like in the $400-600K range; minimum guys.)
They would still be about a Mil under the cap.
If they feel comfortable without Dreessen, they can opt not to resign him so that they have the room to sign another player. In this case, it would be a cap relief.
You release some money at one position in order to sign another player at a different position.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Just a note but there's more to it than money.
Dreessen is from Colorado. I think he gave the Broncos an extra home-town discount in order to play with Manning.
Regardless, the Texans had enough cap space to resign Dreeseen if they wanted to, even if they had to pay more than the Broncos.
Now onto Winston's case.
Ryan Harris probably earned between $600-800K last year, let's say $700K.
That and the $2.4M remaining cap space totaled to some $3.1M
Winston would have counted some $4.5M, which the Texans didn't have.
In order to keep him, they would have to restructure one contract, which is doable, without hurting too much long term.
But releasing Winston helped save the cap space that they can roll over to this year.
We can look at Winston as both cap casualty and cap relief, both short term and long term.
Now onto Winston's case.
Ryan Harris probably earned between $600-800K last year, let's say $700K.
That and the $2.4M remaining cap space totaled to some $3.1M
Winston would have counted some $4.5M, which the Texans didn't have.
In order to keep him, they would have to restructure one contract, which is doable, without hurting too much long term.
But releasing Winston helped save the cap space that they can roll over to this year.
We can look at Winston as both cap casualty and cap relief, both short term and long term.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
Im not worried, our 3rd S, 2nd ILB and 3rd CB got more snaps than our NT position last season. You would be surprised how little we have a true NT on the field. Safety is much more of a concern and it was addressed.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Totally agree. I don't see what the fuss is about really. I assume it's just because we don't have a 330 lb guy in the middle. Mitchell played well last year and Cushing will be back this year. That alone improves the rush defense.
The real issues were Safety play and the non-Watt pass rush. And that's what we addressed in the draft.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
OK if you want to get your terminology straight never mix into any conversation ever again the terms cap casualty and compensatory picks.
Compensatory picks are determined solely on free agents, i.e. players whose contracts expire according to their terms rather than are waived/cut.
Cap casualty is a meaningless term as far as the league is concerned and basically is reserved for fan conjecture on why the team cut/waived someone or didn't offer more to re-sign them.
drs23
Veteran
edit
Haha, thanks for catching it!
It wasn't a grammatical error, just a name mix-up when you're talking about too many guys.
I changed it!
So you would call...... well not you since you aren't prone to conjecture, but you would understand a "cap casualty" to refer to a FA a team elected not to resign, given the proper context?
I would reserve the term "cap casualty" for a player cut ... Like Winston last season.
Would have liked to see us draft a player who does not take off large chunks of games, important or not. Hopefully he can turn into a high motor player who goes all out on every play but I doubt it. I think that this is something that he has done for a while now and these types of habits are hard to break. Difficult to go from taking games off, something he has probably done since high school, and turn into a player who gives effort on every play.
I know about Montori Hughes. He also has work ethic issues but he does not take games off. I think he would have been a better pick because he can shoot a gap and has shown the ability to command a double team, something that any team needs. Sam Montgomery does not fit our system. He is not athletic enough to play outside in a 3-4. He is a 4-3 end. Honestly I am tired of going back and forth on this issue so lets just agree to disagree. We will see in time how both players develop. Hopefully I am wrong and Sam Montgomery develops into a pass rushing demon who can cover half as good as Connor Barwin or Brooks Reed.
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The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Les Miles didn't put him on blast.
A strength and conditioning coach posted that sign because he missed a class. "A" as in "one".
And your whole point about him being a guy, like Mario, who likes to take plays off is bull. He's a high-motor guy. Here's a quote from one of your sources for Montori Hughes:
NFL.com
Montgomery doesn't have an eighth of the character concerns that Montori Hughes has. Montori Hughes was:
1) Suspended for a game because of academic issues
2) Suspended again, from what I can tell, for unspecified reasons.
3) Involved in a brawl in a bar that left a police officer injured but he was not charged.
4) Involved in an incident in the dorm rooms of his college.
5) Kicked off the team by his coach.
6) Has a questionable motor.
A strength and conditioning coach posted that sign because he missed a class. "A" as in "one".
And your whole point about him being a guy, like Mario, who likes to take plays off is bull. He's a high-motor guy. Here's a quote from one of your sources for Montori Hughes:
NFL.com
Montgomery doesn't have an eighth of the character concerns that Montori Hughes has. Montori Hughes was:
1) Suspended for a game because of academic issues
2) Suspended again, from what I can tell, for unspecified reasons.
3) Involved in a brawl in a bar that left a police officer injured but he was not charged.
4) Involved in an incident in the dorm rooms of his college.
5) Kicked off the team by his coach.
6) Has a questionable motor.
Number19
Hall of Fame
What the fuss is about is advancing in the playoffs and getting to the Super Bowl.
Offensively, you attack sub-defenses by going into a hurry-up offense and not giving your opponent time to substitute, creating mis-matches. We have to be able to defeat elite teams by staying in our base defense much more and not depending on the sub-defenses.
deucetx
Rookie
Actually, offenses run a hurry up to catch you in your BASE defense to create the mismatches, not your sub. This is a passing league so what do you think they want to pass the ball against more, your base or your sub package? Obviously the answer is your base defense.
Let's also be real. There is one elite team in the AFC we have not proven ourselves against and that is the Patriots. You do not beat them in your base defense because they run a spread and distribute to speed backs that are easily going to beat your linebackers. How did the Ravens beat them? It sure wasn't with their NT's on the field. They got about half of the defensive snaps the entire game.
In other words, the NT is barely a contributor against such teams unless you have a top tier guy and they don't grow on trees.
I agree with your overall point.
Against the patriots you probably won't start off in your base defense. Maybe some variation of a 4-2-5 with your olb's down, no NT, 2 MLB's, and the third safety in the game.
Safety was a huge priority for this team and I think even that 4th safety spot is going to be is going to be important. I'm hoping pleasant has gotten more comfortable and can play special teams.
But yeah...the NT and the 2nd ILB are both part time players who may or may not even technically start a game.
How often was Ngata on the field? I'd say he's a "top tier" NT. Even if he's lost a step over the years I can't imagine him being off the field for too long. I just think, and I'm sure others on this MB do too, that if the Texans had a NT that size (6'4" 330 lbs) that has some quickness and can plug the middle, that it would help the ILB's and DE's regardless of what the Pats or any other team do. I do agree with you that "they don't grow on trees," but I hope if one does come along, the Texans don't pass on him just because "he will only play 2 downs and won't be on the field that much."
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Ngata is on the field most plays but he is not a pure NT. He lines up much of the time as a DE.
deucetx
Rookie
He's actually not listed as their NT. Kemoeatu (sheesh that guy is freaking huge) and Terrence Cody are. I'm guessing Ngata gets moved around in similar fashion Watt slides in and out to take advantage of his athletic ability with that bulk. Wish we had one of those next to Watt though.
And I agree. I would hope that if a NT like you described was available that even Wade would see the need to change his defense a bit and snag that player up to utilize them more. Got to be flexible when a gem like that comes along. I know Wade had Ted Washington as his nose a few years so I assume he is willing to adapt if the right guy comes along.
Yeah, I knew they used him as a DE, but he was listed as a DT on their roster. It must be nice having a guy with that size and quickness that you can move around on the line like that. But, like what was stated before, "they don't grow on trees."
Number19
Hall of Fame
My understanding of Wade's defense comes from an excellent analysis I read a while back. ( As a side note, we call his base defense a 34, but it closely resembles a 52 ) With the right talent, Wade's base defense would stay on the field the majority of the game. The only offensive formation which might require a sub-package is an empty backfield - a five receiver spread formation. Wade has had to use the sub-packages so much because he hasn't had the talent not to.
If the offense is not making substitutions, we shouldn't have to.
For Wade's defense to perform to its full potential, the NT must demand the C/OG double team.
This is precisely what I said, although I obviously did not make myself clear. I specifically remember one play where the offense had just made a play to get inside the red zone and we were trying to change our defense. The ball was snapped before our players had time to set up. It was actually kind of hilarious.
If the offense is not making substitutions, we shouldn't have to.
For Wade's defense to perform to its full potential, the NT must demand the C/OG double team.
AngryNateFTW
Veteran
Number19
Hall of Fame
Going into the draft, I hadn't done all my homework on Jesse Williams. It seems he had suffered a minor injury late in the season and it was speculated that this may have caused him to drop. I knew his "lower body" was not as developed as his upper body, some called it spindly. Because of his height, some questioned his ability to protect his lower body from injury.
I badly misjudged where he would be taken, but so did Kiper. The further he fell, the better value I felt he was. If taken in the 4th round, I think he would have won the starting spot. I don't think Travardo Williams will.
Maybe next year.
I badly misjudged where he would be taken, but so did Kiper. The further he fell, the better value I felt he was. If taken in the 4th round, I think he would have won the starting spot. I don't think Travardo Williams will.
Maybe next year.
I'm with you, but I guess Wade no longer likes big body???
AngryNateFTW
Veteran
Apparently Jesse Williams' back is JACKED UP. That being the reasoning for his complete FALL on draft day.
AngryNateFTW
Veteran
I don't believe Trevardo Williams is being given the starting job or expected to win the starting job. He'll be used just like the 49ers used Aldon Smith his rookie year. (3rd down pass-rushing specialist) (Williams will also compete on ST's, should be fun watching him and Braman race to see who can hit the returner first)
You watch the tape on Trevardo and he could have easily had 18-20 sacks his final year at UConn. Literally 1-2 Milliseconds saw to that. (Only finished with 12.5 but should have had 2 more sacks against Teddy Bridgewater and that Louisville offensive front) With us having Kareem, Joseph, Ed Reed, D.Manning, and even Cushing sitting and waiting in the secondary I can see Trevardo getting that extra millisecond. (Unless Watt gets there before he does)
I just re-watched the Denver game. Even early after the safety, after the field goal, se were down by five & still owned the middle.
We just need a NT who can command a double team, don't really care if he weighs 290 or 350. Even if the he is not on the field most of the time it would help in the run game, keep guys off our ILB's, and help us when the opposing team passes when we have a NT on the field. Watt will be double teamed a ton so having a guy who can overpower the C would be beneficial.