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NT Concern...

S

SW H-TOWN

Rookie
I have to say that I am worried with what we are going into the season with as of now at the NT position. IMO Earl Mitchell and our 6th round pick, Chris Jones, are not going to be able to do too good of a job at stopping the run. At least we will have 2 big ILB if Brooks Reed moves inside. If I was Rick Smith I would have drafted Montori Hughes (NT Tennessee-Martin) instead of Sam Montgomery and then drafted Ty Powell (OLB Harding) in the 6th. Can't really see Montgomery doing it in coverage, hope I'm wrong.

On a side note I would have liked to see us pick up Keith Pough (ILB Howard) and Jasper Collins (WR Mount Union).

What do you guys think?
 
I believe that healthy and positive ILB play can hide a subpar NT. You cant have both however as evidenced by last year, we were soft up the middle in both respects. Cush will bring everything back to normal.

I am concerned that an ILB wasnt drafted, Brooks Reed moving to that position isnt an immediate fix IMO, he will still need time to acclimate.
 
Big picture moment. I think no team is ever complete in this league and every unit will be constantly purged and replenished with new talent. How efficient we are at this will determine what type of organization we are. I think we are pretty much set at WR, OL, and secondary. As long as we stay healthy in the front 7 and we get the most out of our young guys we will be extremely tough to deal with from a defensive perspective.

We still need upgrades at NT, ILB, a replacement for A Smith, OLBs to step forward, a #1 TE and the next QB to lead this team.

But this team is built to win right now, and for the foreseeable future. Good times to be a Texans fan indeed.
 
I trust Wade to alter his defense to better utilize the talent he has at the moment. with Jamison back in the fold we now have four solid 3-4 ends who are all capable of stuffing the run while Reed will offer a unique blitzing option from the inside to help cover our inside lineman.

With this secondary, the primary objective for this defense as a whole will be to force passing situations where Wade can send an onslaught of young pass rushers into the backfield. I seriously doubt he will overlook finding systems that use his players' strengths in order to stop the run on early downs and force third and longs. In other words, In Wade I Trust.
 
Maybe my memory is just awful, but I don't remember being overly concerned last year with being punished up the middle in the run game.
 
V3rm0nt3r said:
I trust Wade to alter his defense to better utilize the talent he has at the moment.
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True, but...
...while Reed will offer a unique blitzing option from the inside to help cover our inside lineman.
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Ideally, you want your NT to demand the C/OG double team. This opens up the blitz lane for the ILB. If either the C or OG can handle the NT one-on-one, this leaves the other to block on the ILB.

Both the Colts and the Titans drafted OG and C. We'll have to wait & see, but I don't see Mitchell and Jones being dominating - adequate, maybe, but Wade will have to perform his magic to cover this hole, again.
 
Rey said:
Maybe my memory is just awful, but I don't remember being overly concerned last year with being punished up the middle in the run game.
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During the regular season this is not so much a concern. It's when you get into the playoff, if you have a weakness it will be exploited. Our goal is to get to the SB and not get knocked out early, again.
 
I'm not worried about NT at all. We allowed a grand total of 5 rushing touchdowns last year. We were also top 10 in both rush yards per game and yards per rush. And that was with Cushing down for more than half the season.
 
dsorc said:
I'm not worried about NT at all. We allowed a grand total of 5 rushing touchdowns last year. We were also top 10 in both rush yards per game and yards per rush. And that was with Cushing down for more than half the season.
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Numbers can be deceiving. Remember 2010 when the Texans had the worst defense in the league? Our rush defense wasn't bad, but that's because it was skewed. Why would teams run when they could just throw it around the whole time?
 
David Hunter still has 2 years on his contract and Terrell McClain is signed through 2013.

At least McClain was the #65 pick of the Panthers and Wade likes Hunter enough to activate him to the 53-man roster during the season.

Perhaps Wade saw something there that he likes.
And who knows, the Texans can still add a vet if they feel like it.
Maybe they'll bring back Cody at veteran minimum.
 
Number19 said:
Ideally, you want your NT to demand the C/OG double team. This opens up the blitz lane for the ILB. If either the C or OG can handle the NT one-on-one, this leaves the other to block on the ILB.
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Wade runs a one-gap system. His lineman do not sit and hold up blocks. They shoot gaps and penetrate. With this style they can disrupt the interior of the line and the LB's can clean up. Wade utilizes a lot of different blitzes to get his LB's in unblocked.
 
WolverineFan said:
Wade runs a one-gap system. His lineman do not sit and hold up blocks. They shoot gaps and penetrate. With this style they can disrupt the interior of the line and the LB's can clean up. Wade utilizes a lot of different blitzes to get his LB's in unblocked.
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It doesn't matter how Wade uses his NT; when the opponent decide to double-team or combo-block the NT, they still do it.
 
I'm not worried about NT or ILB Those are the positions that come off the field or shift the most in wades defense anyway.
 
We add nothing but a six round pick to the trash we have now and only bring in one UFA. There has to be a plan to bring in a FA. Hampton, Seymour, someone is coming.

It won't do any good to have a pass rush if everyone can just run it down our throats all day. Not to me to mention how much it will wear down out ILB's if they don't have someone upfront to keep them clean.
 
Ive heard they plan to move Crick inside ... The biggest question I have is depth at DE if they do.

Makes me wonder where they play Montgomery - DE or OLB.

Right now they have Watt , Ninja and Crick listed as DE's on the roster.

Only Mitchell & 6th round rookie Chris Jones at DT (outside of guy's coming back from injury or PS guy's)

Braman , Reed and Mercilus at OLB.

Trevardo Williams will most certianly be an OLB .... Montgomery on the other hand , I cant pin down their plans for. He's a little bigger and could probably play either spot.


It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out .... :kitten:


Lucky said:
Really? The defense finished in top 10 in both yards allowed and yards per rush. By that criteria, most of the league has a bad run defense.
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#7 in both Ypg and Ypa.


The Pass defense was #1 in completion percentage #7 in Ypa and #17 in Ypg.
 
Lucky said:
Really? The defense finished in top 10 in both yards allowed and yards per rush. By that criteria, most of the league has a bad run defense.
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Like someone else said, teams started to pass the ball on us a great deal in the second half of the season, skewing our run defense stats. I just remember no-name RBs running right up the middle on us late in the season.
 
Lucky said:
Really? The defense finished in top 10 in both yards allowed and yards per rush. By that criteria, most of the league has a bad run defense.
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Let's throw in also that we were tied with Denver for the least number of rushing TD's allowed so tied for 1st.
 
Lucky said:
Really? The defense finished in top 10 in both yards allowed and yards per rush. By that criteria, most of the league has a bad run defense.
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This has been brought up time and again; but there does seem to be this perception.

We were strong at stopping the run on the outside and we got good support from Quin. But we did get beat handily by N.E.; who got 122 yards from 24 rushing attempts and a 5.1 average.

Like I mentioned before, it's not so much the regular season - we are a playoff caliber team. It's getting over that next hump and beating the elite teams.

We are weak up the middle - NT, ILB and SS. We didn't adequately address any of these needs in the draft. That's OK, we really strengthened ourselves everywhere else and we're going to be better this year. We'll have to see how Wade addresses the middle this coming season. Cush, when he's back 100%, will make a big difference. And we'll have to see if Reed moves inside.

I'm ready for football.
 
dsorc said:
I'm not worried about NT at all. We allowed a grand total of 5 rushing touchdowns last year. We were also top 10 in both rush yards per game and yards per rush. And that was with Cushing down for more than half the season.
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Good point but I don't think that Cody was one of the main reasons that we finished with such good numbers. My point is that we had a chance to get a guy who can shoot a gap and command a double team but we drafted Sam Montgomery to play on the strongside who IMO will not be able to hold up in his coverage responsibilities. I'm less concerned with where we were last year in rush yards and more concerned with getting better. Personally I think that we would have improved more as a team drafting Montori Hughes instead of Sam Montgomery. I would have not been against drafting Chris Jones too so we could move Earl Mitchell to DE if we decide to part ways with Antonio Smith in order to free up cap space.
 
For you stat guys That think we are good against the run. Well we aren't bad but when you consider 68% of Opposing teams runs were between the two guards against our defense, it shows that other teams see our middle as a weakness.

Maybe this is why Phillips defenses seem to start off strong but tend to wear down over time. When teams pound you up the middle enough and your NT isn't capable of keeping the ILB's clean, isn't it logical to think they (ILB's) will start to break down?

Maybe That's why our ILB's couldn't stay healthy last year. I know Cushing went down with a cheap shop. I'm talking about all the other injuries our ILB's had. And don't forget Cody's back as well.
 
Rick Smith -- Kubiak too but wasn't allowed to choose same -- named 6'2", 302 lbs. 2012 MAC Defensive Player of the Year NT Chris Jones as their sleeper lower round pick to surprise. Both really like the young man.
 
Rey said:
Maybe my memory is just awful, but I don't remember being overly concerned last year with being punished up the middle in the run game.
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We were 7th against the run. 9th in points allowed.

The run game only hurt us twice. Against New England in the regular season & against the Colts @ Indy. Even All day had a rough day going up the middle against us.

True, the main reason our run defense looks so good on paper, was that we played with the lead most of the time. But our defense overall (including the run D) helped us get there.

We don't run a traditional 3-4, our NT is no more a NT than Jj Watt is a 3-4 DE. Seth Payne would have killed in this defense.
 
mussop said:
For you stat guys That think we are good against the run. Well we aren't bad but when you consider 68% of Opposing teams runs were between the two guards against our defense, it shows that other teams see our middle as a weakness.
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But they got nothing. It doesn't matter that they perceive a weakness up the middle if they aren't getting any yards & they aren't scoring any TDs.

68% means they thought their strength was up the middle. 7th in yards allowed means that it wasn't.
 
Last year our running defense was strong. I believe someone used the Patriots playoff game as an example. The thing with that example is the same thing folks have been saying for a while. Wade pulls his NT's out quite a lot against spread teams. In fact, our NT's didn't even start that game which tells you Wade's mindset against spreads. Generally it is Smith and Watt more inside and the OLB's on the edges with a ILB and safety pulled up. NT on the sideline. We started that game with 3 safeties (and may Keo never see the field again).

Most of the season Mitchell played more than Cody so what is there really to base concern about? Were we worried about the run defense last year? No. It was folks passing the ball on us like crazy. When some runs opened up for the opposition it was against the spread which once again, the NT is generally not on the field. So if there any concerns it would be with Wade's philosophy and how he deals with the spread. But then again that is why we drafted Swearinger so the issue wasn't actually ignored by the FO or coaching staff.

Oh and Corrosion you are forgetting one more DE probably because he spent most of the year hurt but Jamison is still on roster (unless I missed something) and signed an extension in September so they have depth there if Crick bounces around like last year.
 
Once again, teams started throwing on us so much late in the year it skewed the run stats. Week 3 Simms pointed out that we are undersized between the tackles but you can't run on us outside. I'd say all year that was a weakness. It didn't start becoming more apparent until Cushing went out.
 
Texn4life said:
We will sign another NT and ILB before training camp. I'm not worried. The FO is not done shaping this roster.
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I'm not so sure about this. Maybe they sign the ILB but I don't think he will be anymore than a Brady James type who will come in and provide a little depth. The big worry should be the injury bug. If Cush goes down again we probably are back to the early exit in the Playoffs at best. If Sharpton can't stay healthy, and I don't see any proof that he will, we could get by with Dobbins or Reed in there.

As for the NT situation, right now they have Mitchell, Terrell McClain, David Hunter, and now Chris Jones. All of them are in the 300 lb range. Wade has had a number of chances to draft a bigger "run stuffing" NT and he's passed on all of them. So, I think the reality of the situation is, at least for this defense, that Wade prefers the lighter, quicker, penetrating NT with a "high motor" over the bigger "run stuffing" NT. I don't see this changing in the near future. My guess is, this season, that Mitchell will start and McClain will rotate with him until either Hunter or Jones are ready. Hunter could end up on the PS if he needs more seasoning and Jones may end up there also for awhile. I know they like Hunter and Jones a lot. Not sure what they think of McClain long term. He may be just a stop gap.
 
mussop said:
For you stat guys That think we are good against the run. Well we aren't bad but when you consider 68% of Opposing teams runs were between the two guards against our defense, it shows that other teams see our middle as a weakness.
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Where else would you attack a 3-4 Defense? Sure as hell don't run a sweep, you run up the middle. More so when Cush went down.
 
Vance87 said:
Once again, teams started throwing on us so much late in the year it skewed the run stats. Week 3 Simms pointed out that we are undersized between the tackles but you can't run on us outside. I'd say all year that was a weakness. It didn't start becoming more apparent until Cushing went out.
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People keep saying this like Cushing played most of the year. He went out in game 5.

thunderkyss said:
Seth Payne would have killed in this defense.
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Several folks behind the scenes have talked about Payne in his prime would have been a beast if he was playing for us now.
 
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thunderkyss said:
We were 7th against the run. 9th in points allowed.

The run game only hurt us twice. Against New England in the regular season & against the Colts @ Indy. Even All day had a rough day going up the middle against us.

True, the main reason our run defense looks so good on paper, was that we played with the lead most of the time. But our defense overall (including the run D) helped us get there.

We don't run a traditional 3-4, our NT is no more a NT than Jj Watt is a 3-4 DE. Seth Payne would have killed in this defense.
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Does anyone have any averages?

Just curious.
 
Vance87 said:
Once again, teams started throwing on us so much late in the year it skewed the run stats. Week 3 Simms pointed out that we are undersized between the tackles but you can't run on us outside. I'd say all year that was a weakness. It didn't start becoming more apparent until Cushing went out.
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Then how does that affect your view on the pass defense stats .... They were #1 in completion percentage at 53%.
 
thunderkyss said:
But they got nothing. It doesn't matter that they perceive a weakness up the middle if they aren't getting any yards & they aren't scoring any TDs.

68% means they thought their strength was up the middle. 7th in yards allowed means that it wasn't.
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If you say so. Interpret the stats however you want. I'm telling you this, if we go into the season with what we have now we are in trouble. By the middle of the season our ILB's will be getting wore out. Don't be surprised if they become a mash unit once again.
 
thunderkyss said:
But they got nothing. It doesn't matter that they perceive a weakness up the middle if they aren't getting any yards & they aren't scoring any TDs.

68% means they thought their strength was up the middle. 7th in yards allowed means that it wasn't.
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I think you really have to examine those stats subjectively - Early in the season the Texans were ahead more often than not and teams were forced to pass.

Later in the season when the offense struggled , teams were able to run more effectively.

They were #1 or #2 during that first 12 games ... then fell to #7 after those last 4.

This tells me that as the offense goes , so goes the defense.

mussop said:
If you say so. Interpret the stats however you want. I'm telling you this, if we go into the season with what we have now we are in trouble. By the middle of the season our ILB's will be getting wore out. Don't be surprised if they become a mash unit once again.
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I think this is a subject worth exploring.

Generally in the 3-4 keping the LBers clean to make plays is important.

They got so much more production out of the front 3 than they did their LBers .... especially after Cushing went down that I wonder if this wasnt by design - putting Watt and Ninja in position to capitalize on mismatches at the expense of the LBers not named Cushing.
 
Corrosion said:
Then how does that affect your view on the pass defense stats .... They were #1 in completion percentage at 53%.
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Weird, I guess you missed the Packers game, the second Jax game, the Detroit game, both Patriots games and the last Indy game.
 
Vance87 said:
Weird, I guess you missed the Packers game, the second Jax game, the Detroit game, both Patriots games and the last Indy game.
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They played sub packages on more than 50% of their defensive snaps last season ... Teams were in 2nd / 3rd and long an awful lot. THose are passing situations.

It seemed like (to me at least) that every time a team made a big play , it was in a 3rd and long situation.


The Pats & Packers .... they just whooped that ass from start to finish. :kubepalm:
 
Corrosion said:
I think you really have to examine those stats subjectively - Early in the season the Texans were ahead more often than not and teams were forced to pass.

Later in the season when the offense struggled , teams were able to run more effectively.

They were #1 or #2 during that first 12 games ... then fell to #7 after those last 4.

This tells me that as the offense goes , so goes the defense.
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I completely understand & agree. However, I think it's taken into consideration when designing our defense. If the plan is to efficiently outscore the opponent, why invest the time & effort to find a freak of an athlete that doesn't grow on trees?

It's easier to find that other guy who'll split that gap & get in the backfield, drawing the attention of those big uglies.

Corrosion said:
I think this is a subject worth exploring.

Generally in the 3-4 keping the LBers clean to make plays is important.

They got so much more production out of the front 3 than they did their LBers .... especially after Cushing went down that I wonder if this wasnt by design - putting Watt and Ninja in position to capitalize on mismatches at the expense of the LBers not named Cushing.
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Generally.... & Wade hasn't done the General thing. The ILBs only blitz when we can't generate the pass rush from the outside. He runs it very much like a 4-3.

Against the run, we consistently see everybody but Bradie James in the backfield & I don't think that has anything to do with what our NT is, or is not, doing.
 
Unless the piss poor LB's are crashing into the OL at the point of attack I dont see how the good numbers by the line corrolate with a 'design' or intent by the coaches. Ninja and Swatt just kicked peoples asses last year, plain and simple.
 
The texans need to not be as reactionary this year. You got all these aggressive players so don't take them out of their element and/or try to have them play in a way that's not them.

Coaches need to be aggressive in their playcallimg and personnel decisions.
 
This thread brought up the issue of Wade's defenses putting the ILBs in the line of fire with the O lineman, thus leading to more injuries at LB. I wonder if there is any way to look at Wade's past teams, and see if they actually had more injuries to the ILB core, or if this is just conjecture?
 
To me it's pretty simple. We need a NT who can shoot a gap and also command a double team. Montori Hughes would have been a great option but we opted for a guy, Sam Montgomery, who IMO do not fit our system. We want to play him at strongside linebacker and I think that he will be a serious liability in coverage. THE TYPE THAT TOM BRADY EXPLOITS ALL DAY LONG. He is a 4-3 end.
 
SW H-TOWN said:
To me it's pretty simple. We need a NT who can shoot a gap and also command a double team. Montori Hughes would have been a great option but we opted for a guy, Sam Montgomery, who IMO do not fit our system. We want to play him at strongside linebacker and I think that he will be a serious liability in coverage. THE TYPE THAT TOM BRADY EXPLOITS ALL DAY LONG. He is a 4-3 end.
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So you'd have been happy if we wasted our 3rd round pick on a guy drafted in the 5th round? Can you say reach?

Chris Jones was drafted instead of Montori Hughes and you get a guy that doesn't have the character questions that Montori Hughes has.
 
I don't get the Montori Hughes love...

I mean...Maybe he develops into a nice player, but he's not all that impressive on film. He's just big.

Jones actually looks impressive on film.
 
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