Barkley isn't the most athletic QB out there, but his feet are good enough for the WCO.
And no, he doesn't have an average arm like Schaub. Like I said, his range is about 7 yards deeper than Schaub.
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WRs who might be in the 2013 Draft
- Thread starter 76Texan
- Start date
Barkley isn't the most athletic QB out there, but his feet are good enough for the WCO.
And no, he doesn't have an average arm like Schaub. Like I said, his range is about 7 yards deeper than Schaub.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
I would be interested in how you measure this?
I look at all the deep passes.
Deep outs/corner routes and inside post routes or seam routes.
I note where the LOS is and where the QB is; whether it's a seven step drop from under center or a 5 step drop from the gun, or a roll out, etc.; whether the QB has to throw a transcontinental pass or a pass across his body.
I time and note where the ball is at 3 sec, 4 sec, and 5 sec.
If it's a post route on a straight drop back, then the distance is a straight line (basically) downfield. There's the distance from the LOS to where the receiver catches the ball (about chest high), and there's the distance from the QB to that spot.
If it's a deep out or a corner route with the QB in the pocket (in the center or on the hashmarks, wherever), then I note that and adjust the measurement with a simple trigonometry formula.
If it's a transcontinental pass (or any pass that was thrown across the body) then I make a note of it as well.
I have most of the games, and on the fews that I don't have, I look it up on ESPN game highlights and youtube highlights.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Curious as to what makes you think bolded is true?
badboy
Hall of Fame
Man was I surprised to find out just because it had "trig" in it, didn't necessarily mean it was some type of gun.
I've got to imagine there's pressure on Walter when the Owner says we need to improve at that position. I think what we saw from Martin & Posey was what we should expect from 1st year WR that weren't taken in the top half of the first round.
Martin did a good job of getting open. His biggest problem was his drops. LeStar had issues getting open, but I was surprised by how fast he was. & I was thoroughly impressed with Posey, I think he's going to be a prime time player. The achilles might slow him down some next season, but if Damaryius Thomas can come back from an achilles.... I think Posey will be fine.
Here are a few examples of complex trigonometric formulas:
arctan(z) = 1/2(ln(1 - iz) - (ln(1 + iz))
Here are a few examples of complex trigonometric formulas:
arctan(z) = 1/2(ln(1 - iz) - (ln(1 + iz))
Those look like ancient pictographs left on cave walls by aliens. In the first formula I'm going to assume that Z = Matt Schaub because the absolute value of Matt Schaub is less than 1. In the 2nd formula does arctan(z) = 0? Do I win anything?
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
He has slow feet. When defenders are at his feet, he can't pick them up,move,and throw an accurate ball. His arm avg unless he gets a perfect pocket. Even then the ball doesn't explode off his hand.
You have Schaub here and you worry about Barkley's feet?
With a pretty good offensive line in 2010, Barkley suffered only 8 sacks.
This past year, with the departure of a couple Senior, the injury to Holmes, the rotation at LT as I had mentioned, and having 3 different guys at LG, Barkley was pressured much more, especially up the A gaps (probably the most of among all the QBs in this class, or at least among the top) and he was sacked only 14 times in 11 games. For a QB in a pro system that is asked to go downfield quite often, that's really good.
No, he doesn't have the best mobility in the world, but he's much better than Schaub in this regard (and he's better in other regards, too).
I don't know whether you were trying to knit pick or what.
Barkley may not be a franchise QB, but he's quite likely to become a better pro QB than Schaub.
The QB has got to be able to reset his feet when going through his progression, and his completion rate shows that he's more accurate than you indicate (and that's with receivers dropping more balls for him than other Receivers did for their QBs).
And we're not talking about a guy like whathisname from Boise St the year before who seldom throw a deep pass.
What's the anatomy of a deep ball?
On a 3-step drop in the shotgun or a 7-step drop from under center, the QB has got to have good footwork to make it work well.
To get the ball downfield some 50-52 yards from the LOS (and 60 yards plus in the air) in some 6 seconds such that the receiver can catch it in stride requires a pretty strong arm. (There are other factors that can compensate: a premium angle, a quick release, good throwing mechanics that involve the legs and the arms - but still, they are all tied up together; and your assertions are scientifically impossible.)
No, Barkley doesn't have the arm strength of Jamarcus Russell or Mike Glennon; but he has plenty to do the job.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
You have Schaub here and you worry about Barkley's feet?
With a pretty good offensive line in 2010, Barkley suffered only 8 sacks.
This past year, with the departure of a couple Senior, the injury to Holmes, the rotation at LT as I had mentioned, and having 3 different guys at LG, Barkley was pressured much more, especially up the A gaps (probably the most of among all the QBs in this class, or at least among the top) and he was sacked only 14 times in 11 games. For a QB in a pro system that is asked to go downfield quite often, that's really good.
No, he doesn't have the best mobility in the world, but he's much better than Schaub in this regard (and he's better in other regards, too).
I don't know whether you were trying to knit pick or what.
Barkley may not be a franchise QB, but he's quite likely to become a better pro QB than Schaub.
The QB has got to be able to reset his feet when going through his progression, and his completion rate shows that he's more accurate than you indicate (and that's with receivers dropping more balls for him than other Receivers did for their QBs).
And we're not talking about a guy like whathisname from Boise St the year before who seldom throw a deep pass.
What's the anatomy of a deep ball?
On a 3-step drop in the shotgun or a 7-step drop from under center, the QB has got to have good footwork to make it work well.
To get the ball downfield some 50-52 yards from the LOS (and 60 yards plus in the air) in some 6 seconds such that the receiver can catch it in stride requires a pretty strong arm. (There are other factors that can compensate: a premium angle, a quick release, good throwing mechanics that involve the legs and the arms - but still, they are all tied up together; and your assertions are scientifically impossible.)
No, Barkley doesn't have the arm strength of Jamarcus Russell or Mike Glennon; but he has plenty to do the job.
I've watched enough of barkley even before the foolishness of people talking about him going before rg3. His reset combined with his arm talent leave a lot tobe desired. If we're talking about taking a guy in the 1st rd to be a franchise qb,that's not him. He will need a lot,just as much s schaub to be successful in the nfl. When he gets to the combine and he throws,it will solidify what most people already know about him. He has. 3rd rd arm. His deep ball will be consist on throwing the ball in front way before the route to get it there.
NFLDraft101
Practice Squad
Potential WR prospect for the Texans in the 2013 NFL Draft?
Justin Hunter - WO - Tennessee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW9_vnIO6nw
Justin Hunter - WO - Tennessee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW9_vnIO6nw
I really like Hunter, his athleticism far exceeds most others but he's not perfect. He doesn't have an NFL body, needs to add some muscle/bulk without losing that athleticism. I also question his route tree, how many routes can he run effectively, and question his explosiveness in and out of his breaks. I'd gladly trade up in the high 2nd round and take him. I think he's one of those guys that 2 yrs. from now could be an excellent NFL #1WR for some team, with some work. He just needs some polishing, but he's got all the raw talent.
JMO but he's to small and hopefully won't be a Texan. I don't think the Texans would be looking for a small WR in the 1st, if they did I'd be shocked. Those mocks are probably by people who don't follow the Texans closely but know that we need a WR and give him to us when he's the next available one on the list.
The more I watch, the more I like this draft class (and I have been high on the class already.)
We may have to draft two or three of them, LOL.
Pull up the recent highlights of Dobson and watch his leaping backhand (one-handed) catch at the end and tell me it's not one of the most impressive catches you've seen.
We may have to draft two or three of them, LOL.
Pull up the recent highlights of Dobson and watch his leaping backhand (one-handed) catch at the end and tell me it's not one of the most impressive catches you've seen.
drs23
Veteran
I haven't seen anyone mention DeAndre Hopkins yet. I've seen him mocked a few times to HOU. Read up on him yesterday and the reports all seemed consistent in his athleticism, route running, separation and catching abilities. One report said he seemed shy going over the middle but most made it a point to mention he had no problems in the middle of the field. Sorry I didn't think to bookmark anything but all I did was google his name.
He was consistently listed as a late 1st round to early 2nd talent.
What are you guy's thoughts about him?
He was consistently listed as a late 1st round to early 2nd talent.
What are you guy's thoughts about him?
Really good WR, he wont ever be a #1 but he's better than anythig on the current roster outside of AJ.
I like Hunter/Patton/Rodgers more. (they have upside to eventually become #1's)
Number19
Hall of Fame
I just found a site ( http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2013/WR ) where the receivers "workout" 40 times are posted. Terrance Williams was posted as having run a 4.49, one of the faster times of the top receivers. Has the receivers run their 40's at the combine? Up until now, most of the rankings had Williams roughly in the 5 to 7 area, towards the bottom of the first round, the worry being questions on his speed. He may have just jumped up the boards to the 3 to 5 area, probably just beyond our selection. My biggest concern is his hands, they are really small at 8 3/4". Thoughts?
No. I don't think the receivers will run until tomorrow or Mon.
I didn't see T. Williams having problems with dropped balls or catching them, but you never know when he starts seeing more competed situations in the pros.
I would love to get Sammy Watkins next year. That guy was said to have 10-3/4 hands and he's fast like a cheetah.
drs23
Veteran
I've seen Quinton Patton mocked to the Texans a few times. Do you think he'll still be on the board @27?
Yes,
He probably will be there in the middle of the 2nd rd.
Would you be willing to trade a 3rd/5th to move up to say 47-50 range to pick him?
Another sleeper who is likely to see his stock rise is Tyrone Goard who measured in at 6'7 (but only 205 lbs and 8-5/8 hands) instead of the listed 6'4 from the school bio.
I heard that he's pretty fast.
Let's see if he can run in the 4'50.
Note that Eastern Kentucky is a run-first offense, with the QB attempted just some 220 passes all year.
I heard that he's pretty fast.
Let's see if he can run in the 4'50.
Note that Eastern Kentucky is a run-first offense, with the QB attempted just some 220 passes all year.
drs23
Veteran
Would giving up picks 81 & 135 be better in the long run than what some would consider reaching in the first? I'm not a draft guru but something says to acquire picks as opposed to trading them away. Serious question.
Dang, he ran a 4.44
deucetx
Rookie
For the love of god all this damn speed out there. Just read an article about Austin and Goodwin's runs. Now that is some killer speed.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/...ombine-austin-goodwin-run-425-in-40-yard-dash
The fact some clocked Goodwin at 4.19....yeah I'm glad I told my son to run track to work on his speed more because these kids are getting faster. Whether the Texans are looking at any of these little speedsters remains to be seen but not sure I would be all that disappointed as I felt previously with the idea of Austin. Granted I don't think Schaub could get it to a guy that fast lol.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/...ombine-austin-goodwin-run-425-in-40-yard-dash
The fact some clocked Goodwin at 4.19....yeah I'm glad I told my son to run track to work on his speed more because these kids are getting faster. Whether the Texans are looking at any of these little speedsters remains to be seen but not sure I would be all that disappointed as I felt previously with the idea of Austin. Granted I don't think Schaub could get it to a guy that fast lol.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Why not?
He doesn't have the physical ability to be like these guys,
1. CJ
2.AJ
3. Julio Jones
4. Marshall
5. Wayne
6.AJ Green
These are some of the guys I consider to be true #1's
The only chance he has to become a WR1 would be a guy like Fitzgerald and I dont see Hopkins as a Fitz type of WR. With that said if the Texans draft Hopkins he would immediately become the best WR on the team besides AJ.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
You mean like a superstar receiver? I don't think he will be one of those types either.
I think the comparison to Roddy White is a pretty good one for Hopkins.
I see him as more of a Justin Blackmon/Crabtree kinda guy.
Like I said before, not bad but not a stud.
Hagar
Drink up yall, its the Texans!
I remember watching the Senior Bowl practices and thinking Goodwin was a speedster, but a sub 4.2 - Daaang!
badboy
Hall of Fame
Wasn't Hunter one of the last in 3 cone drill?
I don't think he participated in the 3 - Cone.
I don't think Patterson will last to our spot.
Hunter might, and I'm tempted to take him, though I would feel better slotting him early in the second round.
I forgot to add Rodgers to that group, he really impressed me despite only running a 4.52. He has some of the best hands in this draft and is very physical.
Although I agree with you about Hunter, if I couldn't get over Rodgers character problems I would make a slight reach for Hunter.
He was a 1st rd talent before the ACL and he should be able to get back to that level of play. If he does reach the 2011 level that would make him a top 10 level talent. IMHO (A.J. Green)
aussie_texan
Veteran
b0ng
Bad Hombre
Patterson blew a lot of interviews yesterday and had a few problems with the catching drills. I think he'll be there at 27 and there is a decent chance that I think the Texans will pass on him if the interviews are that bad.
This kid being a JUCO transfer because of grades, and then having to declare because of said grades gives him some of those sweet sweet red flags that may make him drop, but will also probably put him lower on the Texans draft board.
EDIT: I think DaRick Rogers could also be a #1 in the NFL if he pans out in the NFL but he also has character issues.
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
I like Hunter too, but I don't think we'd take him if he's there. Remember why we're going back to the well in the first place: The #2 WR we drafted last year had a latent injury risk that ended up biting us. That now puts Smith in a position where he can't take that risk again.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
If you are talking about DeVier Posey can you explain how he was an injury risk?
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
I don't have much time to post since I'm at work, but CnD's post on the subject sums it up:
Achilles tendon rupture is very commonly preceded by an "aura" tendonitis. The continued inflammation eventually breaks down and weakens the tendon until it finally ruptures. Going into the Draft, one of the significant concerns was his size because he seemed to always be dealing with a list of "minor" injuries. Many said that he would have to bulk up to be successful in the NFL.
You may find it interesting to know that throughout his college career, he would wear a patellar tendon band below his knee joint, sometimes on the right, sometimes on the left and sometimes on both sides. Patellar tendon bands are worn by athletes that are having problems due to patellar tendonitis (inflammation/also known as Jumper's or Runner's knee [remember Cushing's patellar tendon rupture]).
Link.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
Reading that particular post and draft profiles of Posey there's nothing really saying that he was a large injury risk leading up to the draft (Usually it's guys with multiple ACL tears which have you worried). As far as Posey before the draft, his size was the concern because he had minor injuries, but there is nothing really from his draft profiles saying he's a big injury risk. Just got dinged up a lot.
I think the reason we are going back to the well this year is because Martin and Jean both were non-starters in 2012 and the only guy who did look decent (albeit at the end of the season once his playing time increased) had a nasty injury. Pretty unfortunate set of circumstances, but this is a pretty good year to go get a pass catcher or two in the draft.
I think the reason we are going back to the well this year is because Martin and Jean both were non-starters in 2012 and the only guy who did look decent (albeit at the end of the season once his playing time increased) had a nasty injury. Pretty unfortunate set of circumstances, but this is a pretty good year to go get a pass catcher or two in the draft.
tru80texan
Waterboy
I realize you stated "multiple" ACL injuries should have you worried, but isn't it worth noting that Hunter recently came off of one of his own in 2011. I like Hunter, but you would think that has to be taken into consideration if the Texans are concerned w/ past injuries. OD had multiple ACL injuries in the past, in high school & college, & then eventually had one w/ the Texans. With that being said, would you believe T. Williams or D. Hopkins could offer the same upside w/ less of a injury history. I think thet both have potential. I even like Wheaton out of Oregon St but he's a bit smaller.
One player I've read about but haven't seen much of is Dobson out of Marshall. Everything I've read has been decent on him. Whats the word on him for those that have seen him perform?
b0ng
Bad Hombre
I've only seen him with one ACL tear (Sept, 2011) and nothing before really so it's tough to say that his injury history is more of a flag than his hands. I think out of the guys you listed (Williams, Hopkins, Hunter) Williams looked like he had the most inconsistent hands during the drills and was the slowest so I think he'll drop. Hunter is a guy who was coming off of an ACL tear in 2012 and was pretty good, but he wasn't like he was in 2010, so you worry with that, coupled with him weighing in at a slender 196lbs. Hopkins looked great so far and I have to have him as the top prospect out of the 3 listed. I'd probably put Williams second and Hunter 3rd just based on size and injury history.
I really like Hopkins though so I'm probably very biased. He just looks like an NFL receiver playing for Clemson. Big guy, decent hands, maybe doesn't have a top gear like guys like TY Hilton or Desean Jackson, but the kid can play and make big plays.
Also, I'm willing to bet that the Texans are going to take a very long look at Ryan Swope if he's there in the 3rd around their pick.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
This is basically where I am with receivers as well. I am probably pretty biased because I just love Hopkins. I have seen him play for years and he just has a knack for beating his man and making big plays. Sometimes you just watch a guy and can tell he can play at a high level. He destroyed Amerson when they played NC State for two years in a row. He had a hell of a battle with Xavier Rhodes when Clemson played FSU early last season. He won that matchup in my opinion and Xavier Rhodes is my favorite FSU player.
Like b0ng said, he isn't overly fast but he really does have a quick and decisive first step. You can see it on his run after catch and in his route running.
Some video of Hopkins in 5 games of 2012: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTJjRlGOCjk
Also the LSU game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCVWGxNjF_k
He killed LSU in that game. It took about 1 quarter for them to figure out that they didn't have a player on their sideline that could cover Hopkins. And they paid for it.
Another: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVWm9pNiXYY
Another showing him just catch one handers off a machine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwB5J11rmdU. Doesn't really mean much but it is kind of cool.
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