Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

[76Texan]

Yep, it's zone coverage.

Show me the man to man coverage where they dedicate multiple defenders strictly to stopping Walter.

This argument is ridiculous. No one goes into game day designing triple coverages for Kevin Walter. That kind of stuff is reserved for Aj.

Show me all these plays in man to man coverage where kw is being bracketed by multiple defenders.

You telling me out of all the receivers we'll have kw is going to be the one drawing the double and triple teams? With Andre, OD, aria , Casey and Lestar/Martin on the field WALTER is going to be the one teams pay extra attention to in coverage?

Well we should be un-f'n droppable then because all the rest of those guys should eat single or no coverage alive then.

You need to read my posts more closely.

What I said is that when there are several defenders around Walter and Jean wide-open like in this play; the QB will definitely go to Jean.

It is one of the many reasons why Walter's production was down.

There's no argument whatsoever about a team planning on double-teaming Walter.

It's a phantom argument that the naysayers dig up out of the blue.

 

[beerlover]

My take. This thread is disrespectful towards a true professional football player who gives up his stats to grind & execute his assignments given. A true team player.

If you want fantasy football numbers you will be sadly disappointed, I know I've been there. There in lies the confusion because he is still out there playing hard, doing the little things like blocking assignments & in general a pain in the a$$ for the other team. If the younger WR finally step up & take some pressure off Andre then it will also help Walter because the passing game will open up more

 

[Rey]

You need to read my posts more closely.

What I said is that when there are several defenders around Walter and Jean wide-open like in this play; the QB will definitely go to Jean.

It is one of the many reasons why Walter's production was down.

There's no argument whatsoever about a team planning on double-teaming Walter.

It's a phantom argument that the naysayers dig up out of the blue.

I wasn't responding to anything you said.

I'm on my phone so if I quoted you on accident I apologize.

As far as the phantom argument, I'd say the phantom argument is that a wr that has not been much of a threat catching passes is pulling coverage away from guys like owen Daniels and Andre Johnson.

Running through a guys zone and opening a hole for another guy is more about play design than something kw is doing.

Same thing last year in cincy when kw was the one wide open catching the pass.

My point is that the offense would, at times,[\B] benefit more from a receiver that pulled coverage no matter what the play call is offensively or defensively. And if you don't give them the extra respect they can consistently beat you.

Kw is not that guy.

 

[EllisUnit]

Yep, it's zone coverage.

Show me the man to man coverage where they dedicate multiple defenders strictly to stopping Walter.

This argument is ridiculous. No one goes into game day designing triple coverages for Kevin Walter. That kind of stuff is reserved for Aj.

Show me all these plays in man to man coverage where kw is being bracketed by multiple defenders.

You telling me out of all the receivers we'll have kw is going to be the one drawing the double and triple teams? With Andre, OD, aria , Casey and Lestar/Martin on the field WALTER is going to be the one teams pay extra attention to in coverage?

Well we should be un-f'n droppable then because all the rest of those guys should eat single or no coverage alive then.

Don't think that's what he means. Kind of like a crossing route where u intentionally tangle up the CBs/LBs. He's not saying Walter is so good he is getting triple teamed he's saying he goes into their zone and take some of the guys back with him sine he's in their zone.

 

[Playoffs]

The upshot is Matt found the easiest target and it turned into six. I do think he could have attempted to zip one to KeyMart around the one yard line.

No idea if Coach Kubiak was chewing Matt about that play or a change he made/wanted or an earlier play or clock management or whatever.

And yes, Walter had 3 around him on that play.

 

[The Medic01]

My take. This thread is disrespectful towards a true professional football player who gives up his stats to grind & execute his assignments given. A true team player.

If you want fantasy football numbers you will be sadly disappointed, I know I've been there. There in lies the confusion because he is still out there playing hard, doing the little things like blocking assignments & in general a pain in the a$$ for the other team. If the younger WR finally step up & take some pressure off Andre then it will also help Walter because the passing game will open up more

I'd much rather have a WR who an score and make plays then a guy who can block.

 

[welsh texan]

I'd much rather have a WR who an score and make plays then a guy who can block.

So you were upset to see Jacoby get cut then?

 

[The Medic01]

So you were upset to see Jacoby get cut then?

Actually Jacoby learned to block late. But no he made boneheaded plays plus his hands and route running were so bad he only made like 3 a year. I want a guy who can make 10-15 like Andre who can also make the little plays.

 

[Corrosion]

Running through a guys zone and opening a hole for another guy is more about play design than something kw is doing.

It does have a lot to do with play design .... Many of us have praised Kubiak's route combinations and play design. Thing is , the players on the field still have to properly execute that grand design for it to work .... Obviously KW is executing the plan or he wouldnt be on the field.

Im not saying he's the be all end all of WR's by any stretch of the imagination and would love to upgrade the position .... but as it stands , he does whats required / asked of him by selling his routes to those defenders and drawing their coverage.

You see it on the TD by Jean and again on the play that OD dropped .... he created that window of opportunity for OD with precise route running executing Kubiak's play design flawlessly.

I hope one of the kids takes his job ... not because I dont like KW or because I dont think he's a solid player .... but because if one of them does take his job , they will have earned it and shown to be a better player.

 

[Rey]

Actually Jacoby learned to block late. But no he made boneheaded plays plus his hands and route running were so bad he only made like 3 a year. I want a guy who can make 10-15 like Andre who can also make the little plays.

I think jacoby was just as good blocking downfield as kw. I can remember a few times jacoby put db's on their ass as the rb ran past them.

I still think jacoby is gone because of the muffed punt.

It was his first muff of the season, but it would have been hard for him to come back here with his not so great receiving season and then that huge blunder.

 

[Rey]

Obviously KW is executing the plan or he wouldnt be on the field.

I'm going to disagree with that. Kw is the best that we've had.

He's on the field because no one has been better or more consistent.

If he's executing "the plan" the team isn't asking him to take a pay cut. Why would you ask a guy to take a cut in pay that is doing everything exactly how you want it done?

 

[Carr Bombed]

My take. This thread is disrespectful towards a true professional football player who gives up his stats to grind & execute his assignments given. A true team player.

If you want fantasy football numbers you will be sadly disappointed, I know I've been there. There in lies the confusion because he is still out there playing hard, doing the little things like blocking assignments & in general a pain in the a$$ for the other team. If the younger WR finally step up & take some pressure off Andre then it will also help Walter because the passing game will open up more

this is a football message board where people discuss football and yes sometimes criticize player performances. It's no different than talk radio. If players get their wittle feelings hurt they don't have to tune in to the radio or log on and they certainly get paid good money to deal with the criticism, so I doubt they care a whole lot. I know I wouldn't.

 

[Goldensilence]

I think jacoby was just as good blocking downfield as kw. I can remember a few times jacoby put db's on their ass as the rb ran past them.

I still think jacoby is gone because of the muffed punt.

It was his first muff of the season, but it would have been hard for him to come back here with his not so great receiving season and then that huge blunder.

Jacoby is gone because it finally became evident to even Gary Kubiak, that Jacoby just isn't likely to be able to string it together consistently and because of big mistakes in ST play. I just have a bad feeling Posey is JJ 2.0.

This thread is really disrespectful to KW? Really?!

Even the OP isn't saying we should cut KW or put him in street clothes, but that he needs to see less playing time because he's just not producing. It's not basing any observation on hyperbole, but the real fact his production has dropped off a cliff. This was not lost on the FO in the off-season when he was asked to take a paycut. He just doesn't look like he belongs outside anymore.

 

[NCTexan]

I did not realize that. I too was thinking they could stash Posey on the IR. Well, that changes everything & gives more weight to what Spencer was saying during the game last night about Holliday complicating the WR position.

For those that missed his comment, he suggested that the Texans may reduce the number of RB's it carries. We might have to stash Forsett, Grimes & Meggett on the PS. Is Forsett still eligible for the PS?

In any event, with Kubiak's respect for his veterans & the young guns lack of experience, I see Walter being listed as the starter & Jean/Martin coming in shortly after the first play or two. I also see Walter being inserted in when we go into a run the clock out running game due to his blocking skills.

Assuming the 3 young guns develop into bonafide starters this year, I can see the Texans letting KW walk next year.

Also, I wouldn't be too surprised to see Schaub gone after this year.

He is not eligible. It is definitely going to be interesting to see how this all plays out. I hope Posey makes it because I think he has a lot of potential if we can get back into it and get some pointers from AJ and the like.

Plus he waved to me at the Carolina game.

 

[Big Lou]

My take. This thread is disrespectful towards a true professional football player who gives up his stats to grind & execute his assignments given. A true team player.

If you want fantasy football numbers you will be sadly disappointed, I know I've been there. There in lies the confusion because he is still out there playing hard, doing the little things like blocking assignments & in general a pain in the a$$ for the other team. If the younger WR finally step up & take some pressure off Andre then it will also help Walter because the passing game will open up more

I agree with this.

KW may have lost a step, I don't know, when it comes to stats there are a lot of factors, and I don't watch games like game film, so I won't speculate where is performance is compared to his high yardage years.

I don't like when a player that works hard and play hard are talked about in the same way as a player like Travis Johnson. KW has been a solid player since his arrival, and deserves our respect.

No disrepect to the OP, but perhaps the title of the thread should be something along the lines of "Young WR may push Kevin Walter to 2nd string."

 

[eriadoc]

I sort of skimmed over the last couple pages, and don't feel like quoting any particular poster, so I'll just add my thoughts here. For the record, I want Jean to take Walter's spot. I'm not coming at this from a defense of Walter standpoint. I'm truly trying to understand what it is that Kubiak sees in him that keeps Walter not only on the team, but starting. My personal feelings don't factor into that, because I have no say on his status. I think too many of you are only looking at stats and wanting a WR that puts up stats. That's well and fine, but you have to consider the possibility that Kubiak does not want the same things as you do. So the question then shifts.

I think Kubiak draws up some brilliant plays. If he draws up a brilliant play that requires a WR to go into the heart of a zone defense and draw defenders away from a spot, then he has to have someone sacrifice their stats to do that. You aren't going to ask someone like AJ to do that. He could ask any number of second rate WRs to do that, but he's chosen Walter. Why? Well, he knows Walter and we don't. Until now, we haven't seen on film what Walter does. And so far, the only guy here who says he's watched the All-22 is reporting back with things y'all don't want to hear.

As for the contract restructure/pay cut, I have my own question about it, relative to other offseason activity. Walter has not only played in most of the games since he started playing for the Texans (his 2nd year here, I think), but he's been a starter. Why would you ask a guy like Walter to take a pay cut and then make him the starter? I mean, I get that he makes a little too much money for what they want him to do, and they recognize that, and also they have a ton of other offseason considerations like Myers, Foster, and Duane Brown. But if a guy isn't producing like you want, teams most often just cut them. You don't generally see starters asked to take a pay cut and then remain as a starter. Now add to that line of thinking that they never even asked Winston to take a pay cut. They just cut him outright. He's a far better tackle than Walter is a WR in most fans' opinions (so, grain of salt and all that). But he was just unceremoniously cut loose. They didn't even try to get anything in return.

If they asked him to take a pay cut and then relegated him to backup and/or spot duty, that would mesh better with some of the arguments I'm seeing against Walter. Personally, I just get the feel that they were up against some hard economic realities and they targeted him as a guy that they really wanted to keep but felt like he was making a little too much. I don't read from it that he's on his way out because of it. He may be on his way out, but that'll be because Jean and Martin steps up to his level, not because Walter steps down to anyone else's level.

As always, JMO.

 

[DocBar]

OMG!!!! KW didin't make a catch in PS!!!! PANIC BUTTON, PANIC BUTTON!!!!

Seriously, do you really think Kubiak is gonna start anyone else on opening weekend? KW only made the biggest reception in Texan's history' with the last second TD grab against Cinci, that secured our 1st ever playoff berth.

Yes that catch out does Billy Miller's TD grab against the Cowpie's way back in '02

 

[SteveSlaton20]

Kevin Walter will be our #2 WR until Lestar Jean can prove that he can play WR2 and Martin will be the slot guy, and KW/Posey will be WR4.

 

[Texecutioner]

OMG!!!! KW didin't make a catch in PS!!!! PANIC BUTTON, PANIC BUTTON!!!!

Seriously, do you really think Kubiak is gonna start anyone else on opening weekend? KW only made the biggest reception in Texan's history' with the last second TD grab against Cinci, that secured our 1st ever playoff berth.

Yes that catch out does Billy Miller's TD grab against the Cowpie's way back in '02

Biggest reception in Texans history? Good grief you guys overrate Houston Athletes to such a high degree for being lovable guys at times. I sit back and look at the several threads where so many are going way out of their way to defend this average WR that is known for nothing but his alleged genius blocking and now you guys are at the point of calling a catch of his toward the end of the season as the most important catch in Texans history? Some of you have gone mad. This guy is about the most replaceable guy on this offense. I'm getting really tired of hearing this stuff about Walter as if he is Wes Welker or Lynn Swann making diving catches in the SB. This has gotten way out of hand at this point. I'm hearing some people call it disrespectful to criticize a guy who puts up around 500 yards in a season? Some of you need to drop the Kool Aid pitcher and realize that Walter is no more important to this team then Kareem Jackson is honestly. Kareem Jackson is an average to below average CB that gets hidden in a defense as much as possible. Walter is no different. This stuff I keep reading is unbelievable.

People from other teams would laugh their asses off at how coddled Walter is by certain Houston fans who just love to overrate a guy because he is a good guy.

 

[thunderkyss]

LJ was and never would have been a good player to bring in around that time either. He was horrible at that time and had a really bad attitude.

So you're saying starting Chris Brown was the best option?

 

[Rey]

Biggest reception in Texans history? Good grief you guys overrate Houston Athletes to such a high degree for being lovable guys at times.

The funny thing about the biggest catch in texans history thing is that Yates threw him the ball so he effectively had the biggest throw in texans history...

I don't see many people giving Yates a pass on his shortcomings because of it.

Eric Winston blocked on that play. It was the biggest pass blocking play I'm texans history.

We cut him.

Jacoby drew the pi call that led to that play. That was the biggest pi call in texans history.

We cut him too.

 

[Rey]

If they asked him to take a pay cut and then relegated him to backup and/or spot duty, that would mesh better with some of the arguments I'm seeing against Walter. Personally, I just get the feel that they were up against some hard economic realities and they targeted him as a guy that they really wanted to keep but felt like he was making a little too much. I don't read from it that he's on his way out because of it. He may be on his way out, but that'll be because Jean and Martin steps up to his level, not because Walter steps down to anyone else's level.

As always, JMO.

I hear you.

I don't agree, but I understand what you're saying.

 

[thunderkyss]

i see it like this

#1 AJ

#2 Posey/KW

#3 SLot Martin

#4 Jean

#6 Kick returner Holiday


has u can see we have to many good WR's kinda a good problem but

has i see it right now and even tho it sucks If it was me i would have to Cut KW and Holiday

Posey as #2. What have u seen so far from him to come up with that ?

He's been about as absent from the offense as our current #2

 

[thunderkyss]

If you want fantasy football numbers you will be sadly disappointed, I know I've been there. There in lies the confusion because he is still out there playing hard, doing the little things like blocking assignments & in general a pain in the a$$ for the other team. If the younger WR finally step up & take some pressure off Andre then it will also help Walter because the passing game will open up more

I get that, & I appreciate that. However, when the #1 goes down, or can't make the game for whatever reason, we need someone to step up. doesn't make sense to me to expect the slot receiver to be that guy, or the unproven rookies.

 

[Carr Bombed]

OMG!!!! KW didin't make a catch in PS!!!! PANIC BUTTON, PANIC BUTTON!!!!

Seriously, do you really think Kubiak is gonna start anyone else on opening weekend? KW only made the biggest reception in Texan's history' with the last second TD grab against Cinci, that secured our 1st ever playoff berth.

Yes that catch out does Billy Miller's TD grab against the Cowpie's way back in '02

OMG!!!! I don't remember anybody freaking out aboult his performance this PS! Or touching the panic button because of that. Plenty have people have talked about his diminishing productive over the last few seasons... REGULAR SEASONS.

And what the heck does one catch have to do with someone holding on to or being gauranteed a roster spot? So now Kevin Walter is rewarded a lifetime spot as a starter because he caught a ball on a simple slant? That catch doesn't gaurantee him anything. and I hate to break this to you, but that was not the biggest reception in Texans history. LOL it wasn't even the most impressive catch in that game. It was one of the most memorable plays in Texans history, but go ask David Tyree what that entitles you to.

Whether he starts week 1 or not isn't even the point.. the point is Houston can greatly upgrade at the position and whether that takes place week 1 or week 10 I'm rooting for one of these kids to suplant Walter.. and no, that doesn't mean that I'm looking for "fantasy football stats" from the position.. it means I want a #2 WR who can be a pinch #1 if we need him to be in case AJ goes down... Walter can still have a role on this team, it just shouldn't be as a #2 anymore.

 

[Corrosion]

: I'm rooting for one of these kids to suplant Walter.

Bottom line - Me Too.


If someone can do his job better .... go get it. Take it. That makes this team better.

 

[417Texan]

I think the 2nd wideout issue sometimes is being be made to much a of a issue at times.

 

[Carr Bombed]

I think the 2nd wideout issue sometimes is being be made to much a of a issue at times.

That tends to happen when your #1 has had trouble playing a 16 game schedule in recent years. It's about quality of depth.

 

[eriadoc]

it means I want a #2 WR who can be a pinch #1 if we need him to be in case AJ goes down...

What a lot of us are trying to get you to understand is you're not going to get that as long as Kubiak is the coach. If AJ goes down, the #2 WR - whoever it is - is going to continue doing the exact same stuff they were doing. They are not going to step up and fill AJ's role. That is very simply the system that Kubiak runs. Whoever is listed as AJ's backup (Andre Davis, Jacoby Jones in the past, for example) is the one they expect to step up and fill that role. You don't have to agree with it or even like it, but if you don't come to accept it, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment. The #2 WR on this team will NOT be the guy that steps up and fills the role of AJ if he goes down.

As I said above, I want Jean in the #2 role, largely because I agree with you in terms of what I want from a #2 WR. I want that more traditional setup. Kubiak doesn't, apparently. He has come out and said it repeatedly.

 

[Carr Bombed]

What a lot of us are trying to get you to understand is you're not going to get that as long as Kubiak is the coach. If AJ goes down, the #2 WR - whoever it is - is going to continue doing the exact same stuff they were doing. They are not going to step up and fill AJ's role. That is very simply the system that Kubiak runs. Whoever is listed as AJ's backup (Andre Davis, Jacoby Jones in the past, for example) is the one they expect to step up and fill that role. You don't have to agree with it or even like it, but if you don't come to accept it, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment. The #2 WR on this team will NOT be the guy that steps up and fills the role of AJ if he goes down.

As I said above, I want Jean in the #2 role, largely because I agree with you in terms of what I want from a #2 WR. I want that more traditional setup. Kubiak doesn't, apparently. He has come out and said it repeatedly.

It's not about just filling Andre's role and picking up all his responsibilities. You can have a receiver opposite Andre who has the ability to step up and put up #1 type production in his role and it really doesn't have anything to do with Kubaik, because Kubiak already had that type of duo in Rod Smith and McCaffery. This doesn't have anything to do with Kubiak's system, it has to do with the lack of talent we've had opposite Andre throughout his entire career.

 

[RunninRaven]

Didn't David Tyree retire of his own free will?

 

[euro-Texan]

With Dre's recent injuries, I would feel a whole lot better having Walter's eperiance on the field in case of another injury, but I do feel he should slide over throughout the game to transition in the new blood. I can't imagine he will be on this team next year once some of these new guys have a season of game experiance under their belts, but he is good insurance as a player who knows the system.

 

[Carr Bombed]

Didn't David Tyree retire of his own free will?

After he was cut from NY and nobody else picked him up. To be fair though.. he was battling injuries.

 

[Double Barrel]

When you subscribe to NFL Rewind, you get all the games from last year, too.
With the all-22 view and one end zone view on top of the normal broadcast view.

I did.
And I've seen Walter get open a pretty fair number of time but the QB didn't look his way (he was not the first read). Sometimes the first read was not open but the QBs forced the ball there while Walter was open. To be fair, sometimes the QBs didn't have enough time to go to the second read.

Yes, Walter did run his good shares of deep routes that pull the safety over such that the QB would go to the underneath receiver.

And yes, Walter was used to block a lot.
Even on passing plays, many times they called on him to block the back side DE or OLB on play action fake.
After he threw the cut block he would get up and started his route.
By then, the QB already found a target.

I remember for sure though, that one year (not last year), I had seen Walter got a catch out of that situation.

Walter is not going anywhere until another guy shows he can do all those things.

Great post, man, and BINGO on your last point.

Kevin Walter's value to this team does not show up on a stat sheet. Fantasy football and Madden are influencing fans in ways that appear to be less than positive, especially when stat sheets become the be all/end all of "insight" and knowledge.

Kubiak is widely considered to be one of the best offensive minds in the game right now.

But, according to many here, they could do a much better job.

However, the simple fact is that they do not understand the fundamentals of his offense. He does not have a "shark's mouth" offense where the #2 WR moves up if #1 goes down. It's not that simple.

^ That's all well and good, but if he's so great, then why did they ask him to cut his salary in half from 3 million to 1.5 this year? Apparently he didn't think he could get more elsewhere, or maybe winning and being a Texan are more important to him. In any case, I don't think Rick is going to ask OD, Manning, Myers, or Antonio to take a paycut without an extension.

[piggybacking your post]

I do not think that salaries are always indicative of value to a team, especially a franchise in cap trouble.

Arian Foster took less money than the market would have offered him. Does that somehow diminish his talent and value to the team?

Perhaps Walter knew that this offense is designed so that a guy with his particular skill set would be #2, while other teams would not utilize him in the same way and he'd be #3 or #4 on another team's roster.

The NFL is not a one size fits all with schemes. What other teams do has little bearing on our team's designed plays.

Gotta' have some faith in Kubiak when it comes to the offense. He's not perfect, but he's damn good enough to deserve some confidence in him.

I'd much rather have a WR who an score and make plays then a guy who can block.

That is a great idea!! You should send your resume to bob.mcnair@houstontexans.com. I'm sure he will respond and force Coach Kubiak to make you his offensive coordinator.

Or, if you don't like the way our offense is desiged, there are 31 other teams to choose from that might play to your preferred style.

BTW, I'm being sarcastic, so no offense (no pun intended). I just find all this armchair coaching to be humorous.

I get that, & I appreciate that. However, when the #1 goes down, or can't make the game for whatever reason, we need someone to step up. doesn't make sense to me to expect the slot receiver to be that guy, or the unproven rookies.

Again, study Kubiak's offense and how the #2 WR works in it. I doubt we ever have a #2 that just moves to the other side and takes over for #1 when they are out, at least the way Kubiak's offense is designed right now.

I will laugh when Walter finally retires/gets cut and Kubiak finds another WR just like him to fill that #2 spot. Then everyone can wring their hands over that dude. Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[76Texan]

It's not about just filling Andre's role and picking up all his responsibilities. You can have a receiver opposite Andre who has the ability to step up and put up #1 type production in his role and it really doesn't have anything to do with Kubaik, because Kubiak already had that type of duo in Rod Smith and McCaffery. This doesn't have anything to do with Kubiak's system, it has to do with the lack of talent we've had opposite Andre throughout his entire career.

At the age of 30, Walter had recorded 193 catches (60, 53, 51, 39) in the last 4 years.
At the same age, McCaffrey had recorded 196 catches (39, 48, 65, 64).

Before that, Walter had his best year with 65 catches.
McCaffrey had 49 (He was with another team; that's why I used the stats from those 4 years.)

...

Furthermore, the make-up of teams change from year to year.
Go back and look at the time McCaffrey was with the Broncos and compare it with the time Walter spent with the Texans.

The Broncos rarely had a decent #3 and #4.
They seldom had a RB that was efficient catching passes out of the backfield.
(Also compare the number of attempts the QBs throw from year to year.)

All these factors added up to give McCaffrey more catches in the later year (after the age of 30).
He would spend 5 more years with the Broncos.

 

[ObsiWan]

He could have tried to squeeze it into Martin, but it probably wouldn't have been a completion. I doubt it would have been an INT, but it would have been a contested catch for sure. That safety was on him and watching Schaub the whole play, just waiting to pounce on the ball. On 3rd and 7 with only 4 rushers, it's tough to find an open man, but Schaub made the right call by waiting for someone to get open. A clean pocket made this happen.

Exactly what I saw after combining several different view.

Just a technical correction.
The "safety" you mentioned was the CB Brock #26.
The extra (third) safety was the one who bumped KMart before going out to the flat to cover OD.
The other two safeties, together with the SAM, formed a triangle around Walter in the middle.

The more I look at this, the more I think it's just excellent play design. Playing that kind of zone against that particular play is destined to fail, I think.

Look again , he also has a LBer #54 playing underneath him #26 is headed in his direction originally but turns tail to Matrin and recovers .... 4 dudes covering Walter.


It was that LBers lack of zone integrity that uncovered Jean.

There's one thing (IMHO) that really "sells" this play. Watch how, at the snap and for a sec or so after, Matt Schaub kinda stares down K.W. That makes the defense "lean" or favor the direction K.W. is going; left to right. By the time Jean wanders across the field from right to left, the defense is kinda caught peeking at K.W. and has no chance to cover Jean in time to prevent the TD.
Just my

 

[Blake]

Good grief. Unless we have an all-pro at every starter position people are always going to be clamoring for the backup. I like the job that Kevin has done, and hope that he can get a few more scores this season to silence the naysayers.

 

[Dutchrudder]

[piggybacking your post]

I do not think that salaries are always indicative of value to a team, especially a franchise in cap trouble.

Arian Foster took less money than the market would have offered him. Does that somehow diminish his talent and value to the team?

Perhaps Walter knew that this offense is designed so that a guy with his particular skill set would be #2, while other teams would not utilize him in the same way and he'd be #3 or #4 on another team's roster.

The NFL is not a one size fits all with schemes. What other teams do has little bearing on our team's designed plays.

Gotta' have some faith in Kubiak when it comes to the offense. He's not perfect, but he's damn good enough to deserve some confidence in him.

If Arian Foster takes a 50% paycut next year, then yeah I'll speculate on his perceived value to the team. You just don't see this happen much in the NFL, which is why I'm bringing it up. It's abnormal, and if Kevin Walter is worth 3 million a year to other teams, then I would expect him to get cut and go elsewhere. He nearly signed with Baltimore the last time he hit UFA.

Instead, I think what happened is that Rick called him into his office and explained the situation to him. We are cap-strapped, and his 3.5 million is not guaranteed this year, so Rick probably said they were planning on cutting him unless they can work out some arrangement instead. Kevin's agent negotiates a bit and they land on the 2 million number, saving the team 1.5. Why Kevin did that, I don't know, but it happened, and it's more than I can say they did for Eric Winston's situation.

 

[Specnatz]

So we have a entire thread of excuse making to look forward to..

Look you can psychoanalye all the game tape you want, but it's not going to change my opinion. I only care about one thing.. production. 39 catches for 474 yards when your all world receiver is standing on the sideline in street clothes during 9 games is not good enough. And stop acting like the reason why he doesn't produce more is because how we use him.. the guy had back to back 800 yard seasons in '07 and '08. (899 yds) His production has nose dived since... hence why he was asked to take a pay cut.

Well thank you T.O and Keyshawn Johnson. I will take wins and guys who are devoted to the team concept. In 2008 Owen Daniels had 70 catches for 862 yrds and has not come near that since. He needs to be replaced by Logan Brock, I mean by your standards it is all about numbers and since this player is declining he needs to be replaced by an unproven guy who has caught a few passes in preseason and in (Que Allen Iverson) PRACTICE. Part of why Walter does not produce you madden numbers is age and how he is used. Oh and he is more a possession type and will never give you those huge numbers.

Not only does Walter block well but he runs perfect routes. He is always where he is supposed to be and when he is supposed to be there. This is why he is able to draw defenders away from others so they can make the catch for example see video posted.

Oh and one other thing, I am damn glad our coaches do analyze the game tapes versus checking how many fantasy points he put up each game.


OK back to lurking

 

[Carr Bombed]

At the age of 30, Walter had recorded 193 catches (60, 53, 51, 39) in the last 4 years.
At the same age, McCaffrey had recorded 196 catches (39, 48, 65, 64).

Before that, Walter had his best year with 65 catches.
McCaffrey had 49 (He was with another team; that's why I used the stats from those 4 years.)

...

Furthermore, the make-up of teams change from year to year.
Go back and look at the time McCaffrey was with the Broncos and compare it with the time Walter spent with the Texans.

The Broncos rarely had a decent #3 and #4.
They seldom had a RB that was efficient catching passes out of the backfield.
(Also compare the number of attempts the QBs throw from year to year.)

All these factors added up to give McCaffrey more catches in the later year (after the age of 30).
He would spend 5 more years with the Broncos.

talk about manipulating stats... Did I ever say anything about McCaffery's age compared to Walter's? Nope. What I was doing was debunking the myth that Kubiak's system makes it impossible to have a "batman and robin" type duo at the WR position.

For three straight seasons (1998-2000) which covered the span of two championships the broncos had two 1,000 yard receivers. Here are the type of #s Smith and McCaffrey were able to have under Kubiak.

Rod Smith
1998- 1,222 rec yards
1999- 1,020 rec yards
2000- 1,602 rec yards

Ed McCaffrey
1998- 1,053 rec yards
1999- 1,018 rec yards
2000- 1,317 rec yards

That's three straight seasons that two WRs have had seasons unlike any season Walter has been able to have... and they did it on the same field.

P.S.

Will people stop the "Madden and fantasy football" crap. It has nothing to do with my opinion.

1. I don't play Madden... really don't play video games.
2. I have only played three seasons of FF and haven't played this last 2 seasons.

My opinion is strictly based on what I see other teams trotting out at #2. They actually have talent that eventually can grow to be their #1. Just look inside our own division. The Colts went from Harrison to Wayne and to Garcon. Look at the steelers, Chargers, Packers, and so on.

The fact that Walter is the best guy that we have ever had behind AJ just illustrates how poorly of a job we've done at developing talent behind him during his career and that's not even a knock on Walter.

 

[Texan4Ever]

Why? Did he royally screw up during the preseason game VS the 49ers? I haven't watched them play yet but, I think Walter has secured the #2 spot considering he has stepped up during critical moments.

 

[The Medic01]

Why? Did he royally screw up during the preseason game VS the 49ers? I haven't watched them play yet but, I think Walter has secured the #2 spot considering he has stepped up during critical moments.

By stepped up in critical moments you mean ran a slant route uncovered caught a pass that I could have caught and dove backwards in the end zone,

 

[GP]

The fact that Walter is the best guy that he have ever had behind AJ is just illustrates how poorly of a job we've done at developing talent behind him during his career and that's not even a knock on Walter.

I think I agree with this, and the reason why: AJ is so freaking amazing...a head coach is going to roll with that and utilize guys like Walter behind AJ. Plus, the TE options increase/enhance AJ's production value.

I give props to Kubiak for going after two WRs in this past draft, and I think he nailed the Keshawn Martin pick. He's going to be the next big thing here, IMO.

 

[drunkcookie]

I like Kevin Walter...he's a very hard working guy, seems to run the right routes, blocks well til the whistle and is usually an automatic catch if thrown to... I know he does the things Kubiak likes and all, but the guy averaged 41 yds per game last year with AJ out and Schaub in... Jacoby averaged 47 yds per game with AJ out and Schaub in, finished with more total yards than Walter and was released after fumbling a punt for the first time in a couple of years...

Now, I don't think that he "can go sit on the bench", but I think he can for sure be weeded out this season...

 

[drunkcookie]

I like Kevin Walter...he's a very hard working guy, seems to run the right routes, blocks well til the whistle and is usually an automatic catch if thrown to... I know he does the things Kubiak likes and all, but the guy averaged 41 yds per game last year with AJ out and Schaub in... Jacoby averaged 47 yds per game with AJ out and Schaub in, finished with more total yards than Walter and was released after fumbling a punt for the first time in a couple of years...

Now, I don't think that he "can go sit on the bench", but I think he can for sure be weeded out this season...

Something funny about this post... when I was looking up the stats for Walter and Jacoby I was using my phone to do so... looked up Walter's stats and jotted 'em down...even looked at AJ's stats (105 yds per game average first three games last year, BTW)... got to Jacoby's stats and my service "dropped"...

 

[76Texan]

talk about manipulating stats... Did I ever say anything about McCaffery's age compared to Walter's? Nope. What I was doing was debunking the myth that Kubiak's system makes it impossible to have a "batman and robin" type duo at the WR position.

For three straight seasons (1998-2000) which covered the span of two championships the broncos had two 1,000 yard receivers. Here are the type of #s Smith and McCaffrey were able to have under Kubiak.

Rod Smith
1998- 1,222 rec yards
1999- 1,020 rec yards
2000- 1,602 rec yards

Ed McCaffrey
1998- 1,053 rec yards
1999- 1,018 rec yards
2000- 1,317 rec yards

That's three straight seasons that two WRs have had seasons unlike any season Walter has been able to have... and they did it on the same field.

P.S.

Will people stop the "Madden and fantasy football" crap. It has nothing to do with my opinion.

1. I don't play Madden... really don't play video games.
2. I have only played three seasons of FF and haven't played this last 2 seasons.

My opinion is strictly based on what I see other teams trotting out at #2. They actually have talent that eventually can grow to be their #1. Just look inside our own division. The Colts went from Harrison to Wayne and to Garcon. Look at the steelers, Chargers, Packers, and so on.

The fact that Walter is the best guy that we have ever had behind AJ just illustrates how poorly of a job we've done at developing talent behind him during his career and that's not even a knock on Walter.

CB, please re-read my posts carefully.

What I really like for you to do is to go to profootball reference and check out those 3 years from 1998 to 2000.

See how many attempts the Broncos QBs had in those years.
Check to see how many passes their #3 and #4 caught, how many their major threats out of the backfield caught.

Then you will see that the make-up of the Broncos teams in those years were very different from that of the Texans of late.

Their #3' best season in those years were like 4 catches;
their RB' best season was like 23 catches.

With more pass attempts (than the Texans had last year) and very little contriubution from those other positions, you can be sure that more passes were thrown McCaffrey's way.

And like I said, you can only look at what Walter does up to 2011 (when he was 30) and compare it to McCaffrey up to the same age (1998).

 

[Goldensilence]

I think I agree with this, and the reason why: AJ is so freaking amazing...a head coach is going to roll with that and utilize guys like Walter behind AJ. Plus, the TE options increase/enhance AJ's production value.

I give props to Kubiak for going after two WRs in this past draft, and I think he nailed the Keshawn Martin pick. He's going to be the next big thing here, IMO.

I just have a hard time giving Gary "props" on going after WRs this draft. It's just like the lack of production for years at safety that was killing this defense. He doesn't make a change until it is glaringly evident something has to be done to shore up the position(s). Difference is AJ (at least when healthy) has covered for the lack of anything beyond the spot and the offense has been varied enough to cover up for the lack of production at the position.

Posey is starting to look like JJ 2.0; another project who we all have to hope will work out and will have a fairly high round draft pick investment to keep him around.

However, as I criticize, I do have to give Kubiak/Smith credit for Martin and picking Jean as an UDFA. Both looks like gamers in PS at least.

 

[drunkcookie]

Posey is starting to look like JJ 2.0; another project who we all have to hope will work out and will have a fairly high round draft pick investment to keep him around

Way too early for all of that...u don't draft a guy in the 3rd round and "expect" him to come in and take #2/#3 reps off the bat in preseason...

Looks like they did very well on Martin, though...love it... Hope that holds up...

 

[Carr Bombed]

I like Kevin Walter...he's a very hard working guy, seems to run the right routes, blocks well til the whistle and is usually an automatic catch if thrown to... I know he does the things Kubiak likes and all, but the guy averaged 41 yds per game last year with AJ out and Schaub in... Jacoby averaged 47 yds per game with AJ out and Schaub in, finished with more total yards than Walter and was released after fumbling a punt for the first time in a couple of years...

Now, I don't think that he "can go sit on the bench", but I think he can for sure be weeded out this season...

Okay.. I admit, I should've went with another title.. I got a little excited after watching Martin and Jean. Who look like the top prospects we've had at the position since Andre... and unlike Jacoby, they actually look like WRs and not just a athlete trying to play the position.

There's still a place for Walter, but as a #2 I think it's time to reach back and pass the baton off.

 

[Vinny]

Okay.. I admit, I should've went with another title.. I got a little excited after watching Martin and Jean. Who look like the top prospects we've had at the position since Andre... and unlike Jacoby, they actually look like WRs and not just a athlete trying to play the position.

There's still a place for Walter, but as a #2 I think it's time to reach back and pass the baton off.

I think we'll see Walter lose snaps over the course of the year and will be Billy Miller'd after this season if the others progress like it looks like they might.