Mario movement rumors (MERGED) Signs with Buffalo $100 million

[dalemurphy]

I'm sure it sounds great in your diluted perception that you call reality. But you are ignoring the fact that Reed and Barwin made nobody on the team better. JJ Watt and Antonio Smith made them better however. They had a parasitic relationship with our DL instead of the mutual one we had with Mario in the lineup. They benefited from our DL occupying blocks and DT's which freed them up for 1 on 1 or better but our DL did not benefit from having them (DL just occupiers but never got opportunities to rush because they were too busy freeing up Reed and Barwin).

** You do know that your argument for why we got less sacks just put to bed your fallacious claim that we were better without Mario right? I'll show you how (with your own argument). You said that we got less sacks because with Schaub out our offensive production went down. The decrease in production allowed for other teams to not have to rely on the pass as much which diminished the amount of sack opportunities down the stretch. Which in turn contributed to the drop in yards per game.

Given both of these factors at work our defense appeared to play better without Mario (to delusional people such as yourself) because teams did not have to put up the production they once had to when we had Schaub at QB (your words). This in turned allowed weaker offenses to stay close without putting up monster production. That impresses me dale. How about you?

Yes, that's what I'm saying. I'm attempting to have an honest converstaion:

1. Sacks were down because of our restricted offense

2. yards were down, in part, as well because of our QB situation.

Likely, with a healthy Schaub, my guess is that our sack rate would've been higher than it was and we would also have given up more than the 255 yards per game that we gave up. The Texans could've had another 3-5 sacks with a healthy QB and probably would've given up another 30 yards per game.

I'm not trying to say we were much better without Mario. I'm saying that we were at least as good without him.

 

[dalemurphy]

but you're the only guy in here using blanket statements to prop up your weak argument; & in doing so you're doing your hardest to ignore every other factor involved. Yes the defense played great without mario, yes the defense as a whole gave up less yards playing without mario than with him......but if you're going to sit here and really try to get me or anyone else to believe that the schedule had next to nothing to do with that or that its as simple as you're trying to pawn it off to be

I never said that. You were the one saying that Braman and Nading would've looked great against the schedule. That's a ridiculous statement. I have only said that the scheduling isn't the primary cause for the success of the defense over a 14 week period and I have disputed the idea that the schedule played the first month was that impressive... they played two hideous offenses and one good one. The one good one, by the way, scored 40 points.

We can go into more detail as I have before...

In the four games with Mario, the opposing offenses exceeded their average for the year in 3 of those 4 games.

In the 13 games without Mario, the opposing offenses exceeded their average for the year only twice, I believe... In most cases, the Texans gave up many yards and points less than those teams averaged against the rest of the NFL.

 

[dalemurphy]

I'm to the point now in this thread that i want to see them resign mario at 14 per just to watch your head explode.

If they do, I'll be rooting for the guy and hoping I'm wrong. Furthermore, if the Texans do re-sign him, it will make me second-guess what I've been arguing, because I am a big believer in Smith and Kubiak. Part of my confidence in my position comes from my belief that Kubiak and Smith don't want him back. If they re-sign him, I will be full of mixed emotions, uncertainty, but hoping for the best for the Texans.

 

[GP]

If they do, I'll be rooting for the guy and hoping I'm wrong. Furthermore, if the Texans do re-sign him, it will make me second-guess what I've been arguing, because I am a big believer in Smith and Kubiak. Part of my confidence in my position comes from my belief that Kubiak and Smith don't want him back. If they re-sign him, I will be full of mixed emotions, uncertainty, but hoping for the best for the Texans.

If McNair wants him back, Mario will be back. And it won't matter what anybody else tries to tell him. Dunta came back. Carr came back. Bob has this thing for certain "faces of the franchise" that I think will rear its ugly head again with the Mario situation--And I say that in terms of how McNair often votes with his heart and not his head, and not because I think McNair would be a fool to re-sign Mario or anything.

I just wonder if Wade and Gary and Rick have been able to prove, through the 2011 season, that they all three have got a good chemistry going on and that they are a trio of guys Bob can relax and put trust into with the future roster shaping of this team?

Did 2011, by all accounts, buy Smithiakillips some currency to spend with Bob on the issue of the future of Mario Williams? And then again, which way does Smithiakillips WANT when it comes to Mario? Do they want to part ways or do they want him if Bob can secure him with whatever contract it takes?

We'll never know. Unless somebody leaks it somehow, which I don't see happening. Most people are already resigning themselves to the idea that Mario will get insane money from another team. Most people, whether they hope for it or against it, are acclimating themselves to the idea that Mario is gone. Better to be prepared for it rather than to expect the guy to retire a Texan.

IDK, this is a tough tough decision...but other teams could do things that make it a lot easier for the Texans to decide. Foster signed a deal before the FA surge began...he knows what he wants and he got it. Mario, however, is probably going to test the market on March 13. That's Tuesday, folks.

Monday, IMO, will be the day a new deal gets done or it will pass and Mario will be looking for what else could be offered to him from another team on March 13. Anything is possible. But I bet Bob and his guys are wooing Mario up until the very deadline, trying to tell him that it's possible to avert the emotions of signing elsewhere when he can sign right here and never be tempted to make what might be a bad career decision by choosing elsewhere. I bet $100 (figuratively!) that Bob is pulling as many strings as he can. He's that kind of guy, unlike Irsay who is a crafty little bastard of no character except selfish gain.

 

[dream_team]

I never said that. You were the one saying that Braman and Nading would've looked great against the schedule. That's a ridiculous statement. I have only said that the scheduling isn't the primary cause for the success of the defense over a 14 week period and I have disputed the idea that the schedule played the first month was that impressive... they played two hideous offenses and one good one. The one good one, by the way, scored 40 points.

We can go into more detail as I have before...

In the four games with Mario, the opposing offenses exceeded their average for the year in 3 of those 4 games.

In the 13 games without Mario, the opposing offenses exceeded their average for the year only twice, I believe... In most cases, the Texans gave up many yards and points less than those teams averaged against the rest of the NFL.

I think both sides can cherry pick stats all day to make their point. If you simply take yards per offensive play, none of the four teams exceeded their average in the four games with Mario (not even the Saints).

I applaud you Dale, for sticking to your guns. I can't believe you've argued your side for so long now. I highly doubt Mario will be a Texan next season, so I hope you're right.

 

[Nawzer]

I don't think Mario will be back and if he's going to command the type of money we all think he is then I actually don't want him back. He's been a very good player for us but I don't think he's a great player. He's also prone to not being fit through the season and always has some kind of nagging injury inhibiting him. He has very good stats, but at the end of the day if you're talking about fearsome defensive end/OLB I can give you 10 guys who are more dangerous than Mario. For example, Dwight Freeney, Justin Tuck, Jason Pierre Paul, Clay Matthews, DeMarcus Ware, Julius Peppers, Jared Allen, Elvis Dumervil, and etc. I don't want to see us in salary cap hell just because of one player. If the price is reasonable he should be re-signed if not then I wish him well and thank him for his hard work and no complain attitude.

 

[mussop]

Do you have a quote?... because I can not remember that far back. It would be interesting to see who supported the pick and who didn't.

I was one of the "please pick Mario" guys. And I love his personality (wish he was a little more fiery) and the versatility he brings to the table. I don't for a second think he is elite or deserves elite money.

 

[Lucky]

In the four games with Mario, the opposing offenses exceeded their average for the year in 3 of those 4 games.

I think both sides can cherry pick stats all day to make their point. If you simply take yards per offensive play, none of the four teams exceeded their average in the four games with Mario (not even the Saints).

Not only yards/play but the offensive yardage average as well. That's a complete fabrication by dale.

Colts total offensive yards/game average = 286.8 yards
Week 1 vs Texans = 236 total yards
50.8 fewer yards with Mario in lineup

Dolphins total offensive yards/game average = 317.4 yards
Week 2 vs Texans = 306 total yards
11.4 fewer yards with Mario in lineup

Saints total offensive yards/game average = 467.1 yards
Week 3 vs Texans = 454 total yards
13.1 fewer yards with Mario in lineup

Steelers total offensive yards/game average = 372.3 yards
Week 4 vs Texans = 296 total yards
76.3 fewer yards with Mario in lineup

How about this:
Texans record in 2011 with Mario = 3-1 (.750)
Texans record in 2011 without Mario = 7-5 (.583)

We could do this all day. What would it matter? We're not involved in the decision making. So why make stuff up?

 

[ThaShark316]

2006 still hurts dale's soul.

 

[dalemurphy]

Not only yards/play but the offensive yardage average as well. That's a complete fabrication by dale.

Colts total offensive yards/game average = 286.8 yards
Week 1 vs Texans = 236 total yards
50.8 fewer yards with Mario in lineup

Dolphins total offensive yards/game average = 317.4 yards
Week 2 vs Texans = 306 total yards
11.4 fewer yards with Mario in lineup

Saints total offensive yards/game average = 467.1 yards
Week 3 vs Texans = 454 total yards
13.1 fewer yards with Mario in lineup

Steelers total offensive yards/game average = 372.3 yards
Week 4 vs Texans = 296 total yards
76.3 fewer yards with Mario in lineup

How about this:
Texans record in 2011 with Mario = 3-1 (.750)
Texans record in 2011 without Mario = 7-5 (.583)

We could do this all day. What would it matter? We're not involved in the decision making. So why make stuff up?

My numbers are different... Not sure why. Perhaps the stats I looked at didn't account for penalty yards or sacks? not sure.

For instance, I have the Saints at over 470 yards. I'm not trying to deceive anyone. Let's say your numbers are correct and mine are not. If you continued to look at the numbers beyond week 5, you will find that the Texans were doing much better than the NFL vs. almost every opponent:

Looking at three of the "awful" offenses Hou-Tex spoke of, the Texans did the following compared to the NFL:

Tennessee - 169 yards vs. year average of 335
Jacksonville- 181 yards vs. year average of 258
Cleveland - 184 yards vs. year average of 288

It's hard to say the defense only appeared good because of the competition. Look at how much better the Texans were against these teams than the rest of the NFL was.

 

[dalemurphy]

2006 still hurts dale's soul.

Untrue. This is a complete fabrication.

 

[Lucky]

My numbers are different... Not sure why.

NFL.com, pro-football-reference.com, espn.com. Go anywhere and you get these numbers.

 

[dalemurphy]

I think both sides can cherry pick stats all day to make their point. If you simply take yards per offensive play, none of the four teams exceeded their average in the four games with Mario (not even the Saints).

I applaud you Dale, for sticking to your guns. I can't believe you've argued your side for so long now. I highly doubt Mario will be a Texan next season, so I hope you're right.

I was thrilled with the defense the first month of the season.. with Mario. I don't mean to suggest it was bad and then he got hurt and his absence fixed the defense. The defense was pretty good very fast and would've likely continued to improve as it did throughout the season. I happen to think Mario's injury may have allowed for quicker and more dramatic improvement resulting from a change in attitude and leadership. However, that's not central to the argument. My point is only this: it was great without him for a sustained and lengthy period of time. That truth means that he is not essential for this defense's success. Therefore, we should not pay him as if he is essential.

 

[EVOLVIST]

So, since we're 87 pages in, for the sake or brevity, let's see if I can boil all of this down, without going off into many tangents.

1.) Fact. Regardless of the actual numbers (which none of us know), the Texans are not exactly in the best spot in the NFL with their cap space.

2.) Fact. Without getting into the numbers, the Texans defense did very well without Mario Williams in the lineup. This is a known quantity. There's no reason to think that with another off-season the defense will flounder, indeed, the consensus is that they'll improve.

3.) Fact. Without knowing what's going to happen with Mario Williams there is no way that the Texans can truly plan for the draft, and all these mocks we do (including mine) are stupid, because everything hinges on Williams.

4.) Fact. With Mario Williams gone this makes it a ****ton easier for the Texans to re-sign: Chris Meyers, Mike Briesel, Joel Dreesen and a few other depth guys without changing the chemistry of what is obviously a Super Bowl bid by general consensus around the NFL and among fans.

5.) Fact. With Mario Williams gone it makes it a lot easier for the Texans to reach out and get a quality free agent WR (after excising a little fat from our WR corps), or a quality free agent CB, even. Maybe both if they're willing to sacrifice quys like Jason Allen, Quentin Demps and/or Dominique Barber, for at least one depth guy in the draft. In fact, beyond getting an obvious WR in the draft, the Texans could go primarily defense again and come out roses if they've done their homework.

6.) It's not a fact, but only an opinion, but in my opinion letting Mario Williams walks make a lot more sense than keeping him.

7.) I love MW, but I'd be pissed if the Texans had Mario on defense, and at the same time if Matt Schaub is not ready to go, TJ Yates wouldn't have any extra weapons to work with, not to mention the porous offensive line he and Foster would have to work behind. Even if Schaub was healthy, I don't think he'd be healthy for long behind a line that leaks like a sieve.

On the other hand, without Mario Williams, I would be pleased as hell with a rookie OLB who'll give us 6 additional sacks a year as a rotation guy, as opposed to the 10 Mario will give us as our "billion dollar baby."

 

[Mr teX]

This is what we do know...in these 13 games you keep mentioning dale, over 1/2 of those teams had offenses ranked 21st & below. of those 13 games 7 had either a rookie starting qb or a qb with less than a year of starters experience.

The only time we faced a team that had an offense ranked in the top 5 in 2011 in those 13 games...we were smoked 28-13 by carolina...........at home. What's more is that the other game where we faced a team ranked in the top 10 in offense (ATL) our defense was on the ropes & we barely pulled it out.

Now, knowing what we know about next years schedule we can reasonably deduce a few things.

1...there won't be nearly as many rookie & inexperienced qbs & on our schedule as there was in 2011.

2.....the qb play we face is going to go up just by default b/c of #1. the group of
Brady, Rodgers, Sanchez, Cutler, Stafford, Flacco & a few other possible guys is collectively better than the group of misfit toys we just faced. This is not even counting the possibility of facing a healthy manning if he winds up in Miami or Denver....2 other teams on our schedule.

3....we'll be facing 3 of the top 5 offenses from 2011 in 2012...2 of which just had qbs pass for 5k & the other had a qb that narrowly missed 5k, is the reigning league MVP & just had arguably the most efficient year for a qb..........................................ever. In 2011, we only knew we'd be facing 1 from the outset, NO.

Still think that the schedule wasn't that big of an advantage for our defense last year Dale?

We're going to be challenged a helluva lot more next year than we were this past year.

 

[Mr teX]

So, since we're 87 pages in, for the sake or brevity, let's see if I can boil all of this down, without going off into many tangents.

1.) Fact. Regardless of the actual numbers (which none of us know), the Texans are not exactly in the best spot in the NFL with their cap space.

2.) Fact. Without getting into the numbers, the Texans defense did very well without Mario Williams in the lineup. This is a known quantity. There's no reason to think that with another off-season the defense will flounder, indeed, the consensus is that they'll improve.

3.) Fact. Without knowing what's going to happen with Mario Williams there is no way that the Texans can truly plan for the draft, and all these mocks we do (including mine) are stupid, because everything hinges on Williams.

4.) Fact. With Mario Williams gone this makes it a ****ton easier for the Texans to re-sign: Chris Meyers, Mike Briesel, Joel Dreesen and a few other depth guys without changing the chemistry of what is obviously a Super Bowl bid by general consensus around the NFL and among fans.

5.) Fact. With Mario Williams gone it makes it a lot easier for the Texans to reach out and get a quality free agent WR (after excising a little fat from our WR corps), or a quality free agent CB, even. Maybe both if they're willing to sacrifice quys like Jason Allen, Quentin Demps and/or Dominique Barber, for at least one depth guy in the draft. In fact, beyond getting an obvious WR in the draft, the Texans could go primarily defense again and come out roses if they've done their homework.

6.) It's not a fact, but only an opinion, but in my opinion letting Mario Williams walks make a lot more sense than keeping him.

7.) I love MW, but I'd be pissed if the Texans had Mario on defense, and at the same time if Matt Schaub is not ready to go, TJ Yates wouldn't have any extra weapons to work with, not to mention the porous offensive line he and Foster would have to work behind. Even if Schaub was healthy, I don't think he'd be healthy for long behind a line that leaks like a sieve.

On the other hand, without Mario Williams, I would be pleased as hell with a rookie OLB who'll give us 6 additional sacks a year as a rotation guy, as opposed to the 10 Mario will give us as our "billion dollar baby."

The bolded aren't facts b/c we don't know who will command what salary wise. We have estimates on everyone, but noone knows for sure & we don't know how up against the cap the FO is. Just as mario can get a ridiculous contract offer that we can't match, Meyers could gets a ridiculous offer from a team that's so far out of whack it wouldn't be good for us to match for the long term.

as i told dale a couple of zillion posts back, any contract of just about any amount can make problems for us in the future, it's not necessarily just the big ones.

 

[cbs1507]

My numbers are different... Not sure why. Perhaps the stats I looked at didn't account for penalty yards or sacks? not sure.

For instance, I have the Saints at over 470 yards. I'm not trying to deceive anyone. Let's say your numbers are correct and mine are not. If you continued to look at the numbers beyond week 5, you will find that the Texans were doing much better than the NFL vs. almost every opponent:

Looking at three of the "awful" offenses Hou-Tex spoke of, the Texans did the following compared to the NFL:

Tennessee - 169 yards vs. year average of 335
Jacksonville- 181 yards vs. year average of 258
Cleveland - 184 yards vs. year average of 288

It's hard to say the defense only appeared good because of the competition. Look at how much better the Texans were against these teams than the rest of the NFL was.

No dale it's hard for YOU to say that our defense only appeared good. Nobody said that our defense only appeared good. I said it only appeared to YOU to be better without Mario, since that was your initial argument (amidst a myriad of flip flops) which you have since reneged on.

Yes we held those 3 teams to less than their season average. But you apparently are too delusional to realize that they're season averages are pedestrian at best.

See I can cherry pick my favorite 3 of the 11 games without Mario to make my point too...

Baltimore 402 yards/ season avg. 338 ypg (Joe Flacco seriously?)
Indy 320 yards/ season avg 286 ypg(Dan-O lmao)/
Ten 361 yards/ season avg 335 ypg

...but this is only manipulating the FACTS to serve your point.

Let's look at the WEAK offenses that (by your own admission) produced low numbers due to our lack of offense.

Bal 15th YPG; 12th PPG
Ten 17th YPG; 21st PPG
Jax 32nd YPG; 29th PPG
Cle 29th YPG; 30th PPG
TB 21st YPG; 27th PPG
Jax 32nd YPG; 29th PPG
Atl 10th YPG; 7th PPG
Cin 20th YPG; 18th PPG
Car 7th YPG; 5th PPG
Ind 30th YPG; 28th PPG
Ten 17th YPG; 21st PPG

We only played 2 top 10 offenses down the stretch. Of those 2 only Car was top 10 all season (Atlanta's #'s spiked up after that Jax debacle). You are bragging about our defense dominating the 17th (Ten), 29th (Cle) and 32nd (Jax) ranked offense. How many of those guys went to the playoffs? ZERO. We played 2 playoff teams down the stretch without Mario and one was a pretender (Atlanta). So "we played better without him" is just a figment of you imagination. More like we played well without him.

 

[dalemurphy]

This is what we do know...in these 13 games you keep mentioning dale, over 1/2 of those teams had offenses ranked 21st & below. of those 13 games 7 had either a rookie starting qb or a qb with less than a year of starters experience.

The only time we faced a team that had an offense ranked in the top 5 in 2011 in those 13 games...we were smoked 28-13 by carolina...........at home. What's more is that the other game where we faced a team ranked in the top 10 (ATL) our defense was on the ropes & we barely pulled it out.

Now, knowing what we know about next years schedule we can reasonably deduce a few things.

1...there won't be nearly as many rookie & inexperienced qbs & on our schedule as there was in 2011.

2.....the qb play we face is going to go up just by default b/c of #1. the group of
Brady, Rodgers, Sanchez, Cutler, Stafford, Flacco & a few other possible guys is collectively better than the group of misfit toys we just faced. This is not even counting the possibility of facing a healthy manning if he winds up in Miami or Denver....2 other teams on our schedule.

3....we'll be facing 3 of the top 5 offenses from 2011 in 2012...2 of which just passed for 5k & the other narrowly missed 5k, is the reigning league MVP & just had arguably the most efficient year for a qb..........................................ever. In 2011, we only knew we'd be facing 1 from the outset, NO.

Still think that the schedule wasn't that big of an advantage for our defense last year Dale?

We're going to be challenged a helluva lot more next year than we were this past year.

If you are asking me if I expect the Texans to hold Green Bay and New England to les than 200 yards per game because they did that to Tennessee and Cleveland, the answer is "of course not". However, I don't care whether Mario is part of the team or not, the Texans defense will be challenged greatly by those teams. That is not at issue. All I have said is that the Texans defense played great without Mario last year.

You want to attribute that to the schedule. I find that to be silly and I have indicated why. I realize the Texans will play a somewhat more difficult out of division schedule this year. I still don't know what that has to do with Mario Williams.

You act like he is a panacea. He has never been part of a good defense. Never... with the exception of that one month in 2011. If the Texans defense was very good without him over a 13 game span and so bad with him over the course of an 80 game span, how on earth can you see that he is vital to the team's success in 2012? It simply defies logic.

The Texans will likely give up a bunch of yards to GB and NE regardless of Mario's presence.... just like the defense will likely give up very few yards to Indy, Tennessee, Jacksonville, NYJets, Chicago whether Mario is there or not. This is my point. He's not the difference-maker for this Texans team that demands the money he will get in the market. There simply is no on-field evidence in his 6 years in Houston that his presence makes the defense good. His presence certainly helped some very bad defenses be less bad. I'm sure he can do that for someone else too. However, that's not us. We are a very good defense with or without him. Let's save the cap resources and spread them out. Why not?

 

[EVOLVIST]

The bolded aren't facts b/c we don't know who will command what salary wise. We have estimates on everyone, but noone knows for sure & we don't know how up against the cap the FO is. Just as mario can get a ridiculous contract offer that we can't match, Meyers could gets a ridiculous offer from a team that's so far out of whack it wouldn't be good for us to match for the long term.

as i told dale a couple of zillion posts back, any contract of just about any amount can make problems for us in the future, it's not necessarily just the big ones.

The "facts" I state are the probability of ease without Mario vs. with Mario, as the Texans would be in an easier position to match and make deals.

I fully realize that it is possible that the Texans, Mario Williams, Chris Meyers and Mike Briesel all come to an agreement, though the probability is not so great. I would love that! However, getting extra help in free agency would certainly almost disintegrate with Mario Williams on roster, while seriously mortgaging the future of our franchise for one person. Perhaps.

Personally, with a ton of talent in our defensive line rotation, not only do I fail to see how one person, who is not even in the top-5 in his position can make that much of a difference, but also, with the schedule coming up, I'm sorry, but unless we get some help at CB #2, even with a great pass rush, the possibility of Jason Allen and Kareem Jackson getting carved up is pretty damn good.

Unless one of our "secret weapons," i.e. Brandon Harris or Roc Charmichael suddenly set the world afire? Wow!

 

[dalemurphy]

No dale it's hard for YOU to say that our defense only appeared good. Nobody said that our defense only appeared good. I said it only appeared to YOU to be better without Mario, since that was your initial argument (amidst a myriad of flip flops) which you have since reneged on.

Yes we held those 3 teams to less than their season average. But you apparently are too delusional to realize that they're season averages are pedestrian at best.

See I can cherry pick my favorite 3 of the 11 games without Mario to make my point too...

Baltimore 402 yards/ season avg. 338 ypg (Joe Flacco seriously?)
Indy 320 yards/ season avg 286 ypg(Dan-O lmao)/
Ten 361 yards/ season avg 335 ypg

...but this is only manipulating the FACTS to serve your point.

Let's look at the WEAK offenses that (by your own admission) produced low numbers due to our lack of offense.

Bal 15th YPG; 12th PPG
Ten 17th YPG; 21st PPG
Jax 32nd YPG; 29th PPG
Cle 29th YPG; 30th PPG
TB 21st YPG; 27th PPG
Jax 32nd YPG; 29th PPG
Atl 10th YPG; 7th PPG
Cin 20th YPG; 18th PPG
Car 7th YPG; 5th PPG
Ind 30th YPG; 28th PPG
Ten 17th YPG; 21st PPG

We only played 2 top 10 offenses down the stretch. Of those 2 only Car was top 10 all season (Atlanta's #'s spiked up after that Jax debacle). You are bragging about our defense dominating the 17th (Ten), 29th (Cle) and 32nd (Jax) ranked offense. How many of those guys went to the playoffs? ZERO. We played 2 playoff teams down the stretch without Mario and one was a pretender (Atlanta). So "we played better without him" is just a figment of you imagination. More like we played well without him.

Your examples are pretty ridiculous... I wasn't cherry-picking. I was responding to the complaint by Hou-Tex (I think) that those teams made our defense appear better than it was. It was his list.. not mine.

Baltimore - was the 1st game without Mario and an adjustment. Check out the playoff game at Baltimore, when things really mattered... how did they do?

Indy and Carolina- There is one essential member of the Texans defense and that's Wade Phillips. Clearly, his absence greatly hurt the Texans defense.

Tennessee in week 17- This is the game we had Joel Dreessen playing linebacker, right? The one where we rested most of our starters, played our deep reserves and still almost won? This is the game you choose to prove the Texans need Mario. (who wouldn't have played anyway... and couldn't play because he was on the I.R.).

It amazes me that you actually calling the Texans defense pretenders last season. What the heck were you watching?

Look, I realize stats can be cherry-picked to show anything. You certainly prove that point by using the Tennessee game in week 17. What I'm saying is that 13 games in a row without Mario is a huge sample that transcends these arguments. They played good teams, bad team, playoff teams... they played two games in the playoffs... Taken as a whole, they were excellent in any measurement you want to look at. Of course they had an occasional off week... Do you deny that will happen with mario on the team?

 

[Dutchrudder]

No problem:

1. That would suck!

2. I have a ton of confidence in Barwin. I predicted before the season that he would finish with 10+ sacks- that was before he beat out Reed for the job in the preseason: Here's the evidence

3. I think the team needs to address Mario's loss with a free agent. There are a number of guys that would be good depth/rotation for Reed and Barwin... and affordable.

4. I think OLB would be a position likely addressed in the first 3 or 4 rounds of the draft.

Letting Mario go is about improving depth, not limiting it. People make fun of me because I want the Texans to lock up guys like Glover Quin, Brice McCain, James Casey, Mike Brisiel... But, it's because I think they are very good value and I respect the importance of depth. I don't think there is any player, other than QB, that is worth what Mario Williams will likely command.

 

[dalemurphy]

Huh? my prediction was in Sept. 3, 2011. I don't get your point? Here

I do like Gene Wilder, though.

 

[Mr teX]

If you are asking me if I expect the Texans to hold Green Bay and New England to les than 200 yards per game because they did that to Tennessee and Cleveland, the answer is "of course not". However, I don't care whether Mario is part of the team or not, the Texans defense will be challenged greatly by those teams. That is not at issue. All I have said is that the Texans defense played great without Mario last year.

You want to attribute that to the schedule. I find that to be silly and I have indicated why. I realize the Texans will play a somewhat more difficult out of division schedule this year. I still don't know what that has to do with Mario Williams.

You act like he is a panacea. He has never been part of a good defense. Never... with the exception of that one month in 2011. If the Texans defense was very good without him over a 13 game span and so bad with him over the course of an 80 game span, how on earth can you see that he is vital to the team's success in 2012? It simply defies logic.

The Texans will likely give up a bunch of yards to GB and NE regardless of Mario's presence.... just like the defense will likely give up very few yards to Indy, Tennessee, Jacksonville, NYJets, Chicago whether Mario is there or not. This is my point. He's not the difference-maker for this Texans team that demands the money he will get in the market. There simply is no on-field evidence in his 6 years in Houston that his presence makes the defense good. His presence certainly helped some very bad defenses be less bad. I'm sure he can do that for someone else too. However, that's not us. We are a very good defense with or without him. Let's save the cap resources and spread them out. Why not?

I don't know what kind of logic you're using, but i'm starting to believe what I-cak said about it being faulty as once again you miss the point and trail off on another tangent. You mean 80 games with him being our only talented pass rusher you mean? yeah, i expect the defense to suck. :kubepalm:

congratulations, you've successfully exhausted all my patience with you on this subject. I'm out.

 

[Dutchrudder]

Huh? my prediction was in Sept. 3, 2011. I don't get your point? Here

I do like Gene Wilder, though.

Oops, sorry, read that as 2009 for some reason...

 

[dalemurphy]

I don't know what kind of logic you're using, but i'm starting to believe what I-cak said about it being faulty as once again you miss the point and trail off on another tangent. You mean 80 games with him being our only talented pass rusher you mean? yeah, i expect the defense to suck. :kubepalm:

congratulations, you've successfully exhausted all my patience with you on this subject. I'm out.

EXACTLY! One player doesn't make enough of a difference. Hence: team concept and the theory that we shouldn't pay one player the kind of money Mario will command in a couple more days.

You guys are so busy defending Mario that the real issue alludes you. Market value vs. real value. However great you may think Mario is, the reality is that his impact on the game, as you just said, isn't enough to justify eating up a large chunk of the cap. Quarterbacks make that kind of impact. Seldom do other position players. Where am I wrong on this?

 

[cbs1507]

Your examples are pretty ridiculous... I wasn't cherry-picking. I was responding to the complaint by Hou-Tex (I think) that those teams made our defense appear better than it was. It was his list.. not mine.

Baltimore - was the 1st game without Mario and an adjustment. Check out the playoff game at Baltimore, when things really mattered... how did they do?

Indy and Carolina- There is one essential member of the Texans defense and that's Wade Phillips. Clearly, his absence greatly hurt the Texans defense.

Tennessee in week 17- This is the game we had Joel Dreessen playing linebacker, right? The one where we rested most of our starters, played our deep reserves and still almost won? This is the game you choose to prove the Texans need Mario. (who wouldn't have played anyway... and couldn't play because he was on the I.R.).

It amazes me that you actually calling the Texans defense pretenders last season. What the heck were you watching?

Look, I realize stats can be cherry-picked to show anything. You certainly prove that point by using the Tennessee game in week 17. What I'm saying is that 13 games in a row without Mario is a huge sample that transcends these arguments. They played good teams, bad team, playoff teams... they played two games in the playoffs... Taken as a whole, they were excellent in any measurement you want to look at. Of course they had an occasional off week... Do you deny that will happen with mario on the team?

Fair enough. I did not see that in his post. With that in mind, the rest of your reply to mine is irrelevant then.

That would be amazing...except I never called the Texans "pretenders". :mariopalm: The "pretenders" comment was aimed at Atlanta.

The only good teams we played went to the playoffs and one of them were pretenders like I said the other had a vanilla offense so it's not surprise that we were better prepared the 2nd time. The rest were all bad teams including Cin, which I called overrated earlier in the season before they played the big dogs in their division (probably on the other MB).

At the end of the day you still cannot deny that we played weak teams with weak offenses down the stretch.

BTW Just to comment on your excuse for the Carolina and Indy games. If Wade is that important to us, imagine if we had the defense you think so highly of without Mario and say Wade took a HC job elsewhere in 2013. This team would crumble, especially if we had to switch to a 4-3 with the new DC. Those guys you think so highly of wouldn't be as valuable as you thought then. Reed is too small to be a 4-3 DE and too slow to be a 4-3 LB. Barwin could switch over the DE, but how good would he be now that he does not have a DL to play off of. But Mario on the other hand would still be able to fit regardless of the system. So it doesn't really matter what your opinion is about Mario, but he most definitely is more valuable than you perceive.

 

[gafftop]

I'm fairly certain he would've kept playing if there was something to play for.

At the time he quit he was a liabilty on D. He would have been a liability in the playoffs. My opinion.

 

[arb729]

Let's shift focus a bit.

How are we all going to feel if the Patriots sign Mario? I would say that's who I'm most worried about him going to.

They had a failed experiment with Adilius Thomas I'm well aware, but Mario (whether you like him or not) is much more talented than Thomas. With him, I really think they become the best team in the league.

 

[dalemurphy]

Fair enough. I did not see that in his post. With that in mind, the rest of your reply to mine is irrelevant then.

That would be amazing...except I never called the Texans "pretenders". :mariopalm: The "pretenders" comment was aimed at Atlanta.

BTW Just to comment on your excuse for the Carolina and Indy games. If Wade is that important to us, imagine if we had the defense you think so highly of without Mario and say Wade took a HC job elsewhere in 2013. This team would crumble, especially if we had to switch to a 4-3 with the new DC. Those guys you think so highly of wouldn't be as valuable as you thought then. Reed is too small to be a 4-3 DE and too slow to be a 4-3 LB. Barwin could switch over the DE, but how good would he be now that he does not have a DL to play off of. But Mario on the other hand would still be able to fit regardless of the system. So it doesn't really matter what your opinion is about Mario, but he most definitely is more valuable than you perceive.[/QUOTE]


Well, we better not be making decisions like this based on the possibility that our coaching staff and scheme may change in the future.

By the way, once again, how were the Texans in a 4-3 defense with Mario Williams and without Wade Phillips? If Wade leaves and we hire another poor defensive coordinator to run another vanilla 4-3 then Brooks Reed's size is the least of my concern.

When you argue that the Texans success was, almost exclusively, a result of circumstance and not skill then you are calling them "pretenders".

 

[gafftop]

Well, since you are the one that started it, let me ask you a question.

After all this time, you've learned that some favor letting Mario walk, and you learned that some favor re-signing him.

So what do you think the ratio is? About 50/50? And can you think of one person whose mind was changed since you started it?

Yeah, I'd be tired of it, too.

I think the ratio is more like 65% 35% in favor of letting him walk. Look at some of the other threads.

I started this thread about 1 year ago. I think in that time many people have changed their minds. I think many people never even considered trying to trade Mario last year before the season started.

Let me ask you a question. Based on where we are presently would you rather sign Mario now and push us closer to cap hell or would you rather have traded him last year for say a couple 2nd round draft choices or maybe a real no. 2 WR and a 2nd round draft choice.

 

[cbs1507]

EXACTLY! One player doesn't make enough of a difference. Hence: team concept and the theory that we shouldn't pay one player the kind of money Mario will command in a couple more days.

You guys are so busy defending Mario that the real issue alludes you. Market value vs. real value. However great you may think Mario is, the reality is that his impact on the game, as you just said, isn't enough to justify eating up a large chunk of the cap. Quarterbacks make that kind of impact. Seldom do other position players. Where am I wrong on this?

Market value vs Real value. Who's ignoring that? You're the main person. Do you even know what the market value for him would be? You invent some baseless numbers based on your imagination to insists how financially Mario will hurt the team.

1) You do not know the Texans cap number for 2012.
2) I've already discussed in detail with you the ball park numbers of the market value for Mario and how the Texans could make it work.
3) I've already discussed with you in detail the reason why he is worth the market value, or at least around it.

You just choose the IGNORE fact and flip lop your arguments to continue a cycle.

BTW Tex never said anything about Mario not affecting the game. That is just your inability to comprehend, or maybe selective comprehension. He said that Mario was the best player on a bad team. You even admitted that he made those bad teams better, so your trying to say that he claimed Mario does not effect the game is nothing more than a fabrication.

 

[dalemurphy]

Let's shift focus a bit.

How are we all going to feel if the Patriots sign Mario? I would say that's who I'm most worried about him going to.

They had a failed experiment with Adilius Thomas I'm well aware, but Mario (whether you like him or not) is much more talented than Thomas. With him, I really think they become the best team in the league.

If healthy, he would make them scarier. However, that's all guesswork. Let's see what their defense, as a whole, looks like before we start worrying about that. Again, in the NFL, I don't think one player has the kind of impact we as fans often invision.

 

[arb729]

If healthy, he would make them scarier. However, that's all guesswork. Let's see what their defense, as a whole, looks like before we start worrying about that. Again, in the NFL, I don't think one player has the kind of impact we as fans often invision.

fair enough, I just really think he's the one piece that can push them over the top. Granted, everything anyone says preseason is really just "on paper", but that's the point of MBs, newspapers, blogs, etc. To speculate.

 

[dalemurphy]

Market value vs Real value. Who's ignoring that? You're the main person. Do you even know what the market value for him would be? You invent some baseless numbers based on your imagination to insists how financially Mario will hurt the team.

1) You do not know the Texans cap number for 2012.
2) I've already discussed in detail with you the ball park numbers of the market value for Mario and how the Texans could make it work.
3) I've already discussed with you in detail the reason why he is worth the market value, or at least around it.

You just choose the IGNORE fact and flip lop your arguments to continue a cycle.

BTW Tex never said anything about Mario not affecting the game. That is just your inability to comprehend, or maybe selective comprehension. He said that Mario was the best player on a bad team. You even admitted that he made those bad teams better, so your trying to say that he claimed Mario does not effect the game is nothing more than a fabrication.

I'm expecting Mario to get more than Charles Johnson did: 6yrs and $72 million. Most people that follow this stuff expect him to get, at least, what Peppers did (6yrs and $84 mill). If his deal ends up around 6 and $54 million then I'll feel alright with that and have said that repeatedly.

I never said Mario can/does not effect the game. I said that he is not essential to the success of this group on defense. I have no doubt that a healthy Mario, on the right team, will make their defense. I could argue that those resources could be better spent on a group of players, though.

 

[cbs1507]

Well, we better not be making decisions like this based on the possibility that our coaching staff and scheme may change in the future.

By the way, once again, how were the Texans in a 4-3 defense with Mario Williams and without Wade Phillips? If Wade leaves and we hire another poor defensive coordinator to run another vanilla 4-3 then Brooks Reed's size is the least of my concern.

When you argue that the Texans success was, almost exclusively, a result of circumstance and not skill then you are calling them "pretenders".

But dale you keep talking about the future of our franchise, which could very well be without Wade Phillips. He already flirted with the idea this season. Who's to say it couldn't happen if he got the right situation?

Anyway, why would we hire some "poor" coordinator with a "vanilla" scheme? Mario never had Barwin, Watt, D. Manning and J. Joe (you know talent) type of players at the same time. You're making circular arguments without considering the FACTS dale. In fact 2010 could have been a successful season (Mario sports hernia and all leading us in sacks) with just a decent back end, since it was in fact mainly our secondary that cost us that season.

Of course people such as yourself are clouded with delusion just to make an argument against Mario.

BTW dale. I am not arguing that the Texans success was based on circumstance that was you brother. You said Matt Schaub's absence led to a lack of offensive production which took pressure of opposing teams to score and throw which led to the low yardage given up by our defense without Mario. If I didn't know any better I'd say that you're calling us pretenders dale, since YOUR argument fits YOUR own description of "pretenders".

I'm expecting Mario to get more than Charles Johnson did: 6yrs and $72 million. Most people that follow this stuff expect him to get, at least, what Peppers did (6yrs and $84 mill). If his deal ends up around 6 and $54 million then I'll feel alright with that and have said that repeatedly.

I never said Mario can/does not effect the game. I said that he is not essential to the success of this group on defense. I have no doubt that a healthy Mario, on the right team, will make their defense. I could argue that those resources could be better spent on a group of players, though.

See what I mean by you just invent up baseless numbers using your imagination just to make a point. 6 years $54 is not happening. So get out of your delusion dale. 6 year $72m could be possible, but that is the low point. I'd think it would be in the $13m-$15m range (since the highest per year contract is $15m even though it's just a 2 yr deal). The Texans aren't foolish enough to try to low ball the guy. They will start off reasonable, because unlike yourself they actually know the value of a player like Mario Williams. We just need to have him at a reasonable cap hit for 2012...somewhere around $10m ($8m less than his cap hit last year). We can structure it according to the projected rise in the future salary cap.

BTW I said you accused Tex of saying that, not you said it. But forget about it.

 

[Marcus]

I think the ratio is more like 65% 35% in favor of letting him walk. Look at some of the other threads.

I started this thread about 1 year ago. I think in that time many people have changed their minds. I think many people never even considered trying to trade Mario last year before the season started.

Let me ask you a question. Based on where we are presently would you rather sign Mario now and push us closer to cap hell or would you rather have traded him last year for say a couple 2nd round draft choices or maybe a real no. 2 WR and a 2nd round draft choice.

Sign him.

I have looked at the other threads. It's the same regurgitated stuff repeated over and over and over and over. And unless you start naming names, I call bull**** on your contention that anybody's minds have changed.

 

[steelbtexan]

Lets play the what if game

What if Wade leaves= What if Gary gets run over by a bus
What if MW leaves = Best defense the team has ever had last yr without MW for most of the yr.
What if MW re-signs for the type of contract he will demand = Cap Hell
What if MW re-signs and JoJo gets hurt for most of the yr = Defense stinks
What if MW walks and JoJo gets hurt = Defense stinks

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

From Rotoworld:

FOX Sports Southwest confirms the Cowboys will ''make a run'' at free agent DE Mario Williams, but believe it's unlikely they'll get him at anything less than market value.

The Cowboys are projected to be $14 million under the salary cap this offseason, which could make signing Williams cost prohibitive given their investments at outside linebacker and needs in other areas. Williams is likely to command a contract similar to the six-year, $84 million deal Julius Peppers received from Chicago.

 

[marks01234]

So far I've heard Dallas, Buffalo, Seattle, Denver, Oakland, Atlanta, Jacksonville, Tennessee, San Deigo, Miami, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Tampa Bay, New England. Chicago, Carolina and Detriot.

Mario's agent must be a busy man.

 

[leebigeztx]

What's funny about dalemurphy's quote "once properly aligned" is that on 3rd and long,barwin was down on the line rushing the passer with mario and wasn't generated heat from 4 dl. I think wade did an outstanding job creating pressure w/o mario. He would probably tell anyone worth looking at film that he did unsoundly by bringing cushing a lot to help eat up the inside and give barwin free runs at the qb. It also healped playing against some terrible offenses,so he could be a little exotic. We can go round and round and I won't change your opinion because you have in your head the defense played better. Free agency is coming quick and we will see soon enough.

 

[thunderkyss]

** Please stop misrepresenting my position. I have never, and still do not, have any complaint/criticism of Mario Williams before the second half of 2009.

The thing that gets me, about your position.

First, you say it's about the money & you don't agree with paying anyone but a QB that kind of money. But when asked if you'd take Mario for $9M/yr, you still say no even though that is a hell of a discount for that position.

Second, you don't believe he is as good as most people believe him to be. Even the people outside of Houston think he is the best pass rusher in this FA class, but you believe there is a suitable replacement for him out there.​

No problem:
Letting Mario go is about improving depth, not limiting it. People make fun of me because I want the Texans to lock up guys like Glover Quin, Brice McCain, James Casey, Mike Brisiel... But, it's because I think they are very good value and I respect the importance of depth. I don't think there is any player, other than QB, that is worth what Mario Williams will likely command.

& that's fine. If you want to be cheap, just say you want to be cheap don't come up with some "obscure" measure like effort. He might not be a "high effort" guy, or a "fast twitch" guy, but he puts it all on the field every snap. If he didn't, like Haynesworth or Moss, you wouldn't be in the minority with this opinion (which you are).

 

[Dutchrudder]

So far I've heard Dallas, Buffalo, Seattle, Denver, Oakland, Atlanta, Jacksonville, Tennessee, San Deigo, Miami, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Tampa Bay, New England. Chicago, Carolina and Detriot.

Mario's agent must be a busy man.

Good, I hope many of them get dinged for tampering and give us some picks.

 

[Vinny]

Dumervil on 1 side...Miller on the other...Williams anchoring that DL....nasty.

till Mario gets hurt.

 

[thunderkyss]

I am getting tired of hearing, "If Mario is on the team next year we will be great. Just think if Mario was on the team during the playoffs...We need depth... etc. " Mario was on the team last year and he got hurt. Mario was on the team the year before and in what would have been crunch time if the Texans were in the playoffs where was he, on the bench injured. The reason we needed depth last year was Mario was hurt again.

At the end of the year, Kubiak praised Reed & Barwin for stepping up, not only with the quality of their play, but also the quantity. They played an enormous amount of snaps over the last few games, because there was no one else behind them.

If we keep that up, we're going to have the same problem we would have if we handed the ball off to Foster 40 times a game, or asked Schaub to keep dropping back 50 times a game.

Personally, I'm fine with losing Mario. However, if that were to happen I want the Texans to get the best pass rusher they can in the draft. If that means we need to trade up to do it... fine. If that means we need to reach, we need to reach, because I guarantee you Barwin & Reed will not be as affective if they are our only outside pass rushers all year long.

& not only are we asking a lot of Barwin (who has missed a lot of games in his short career) but we're asking a lot of Jj Watt & Brooks Reed. Two guys going into their sophomore season where they should take the biggest jump in their NFL careers. With Mario (or another bonafide pass rusher) it would be easier & more certain for them to bloom into the players we want them to be.

 

[Lucky]

till Mario gets hurt.

That's where Tebow and his ability to heal by laying of hands comes into play. Or am I getting Tim and Benny Hinn confused?

 

[GP]

So far I've heard Dallas, Buffalo, Seattle, Denver, Oakland, Atlanta, Jacksonville, Tennessee, San Deigo, Miami, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Tampa Bay, New England. Chicago, Carolina and Detriot.

Mario's agent must be a busy man.

If that list is accurate, then HOLY COW!

17 teams. More than half of the NFL set to make offers on March 13.

IF that list is true, we are screwwwwwwwwed. It'd be anybody's guess where he goes. Highest bidder? Or best offer from a select number of competitive teams he thinks he stands a good chance with?

LOL.

 

[thunderkyss]

If they do, I'll be rooting for the guy and hoping I'm wrong. Furthermore, if the Texans do re-sign him, it will make me second-guess what I've been arguing, because I am a big believer in Smith and Kubiak. Part of my confidence in my position comes from my belief that Kubiak and Smith don't want him back. If they re-sign him, I will be full of mixed emotions, uncertainty, but hoping for the best for the Texans.

That's the way I felt during the Dunta franchise fiasco.

Surely they didn't want him. When he turned down their offer, I though, "pshew, they low balled his butt to get him out of here."

Then I heard it was a substantial offer that Dunta turned down, so I had to re-think Dunta Robinson. So I really watched him through-out the year. His coverage skills were better than I gave him credit for (I actually think he improved his coverage skills), but his physical play took a dramatic drop.

I don't think his coverage ability was good enough to pay him what he wanted, especially without the physicality he had become known for. I figured he eased up, because his future wasn't guaranteed & didn't want another injury to set him back.

So I watched him in Atlanta... coverage was fine.. & he was bringing the wood.

Had the Texan managed to keep Dunta Robinson, I would have been upset, because I felt like Dunta set the cap. Unless we drafted a CB in the 4th or later that just outplayed his draft slot (Quin) we would never attempt to get a CB better than Robinson & I thought we desperately needed to.

So, if that's where you are with Mario, I understand. I don't agree, but I understand.

 

[thunderkyss]

I don't think Mario will be back and if he's going to command the type of money we all think he is then I actually don't want him back. He's been a very good player for us but I don't think he's a great player.

& that's fine. But, I like to ask everyone what their number is for two reasons. To judge if we over payed, or if we got a hometown discount.

Personally, I think we overpayed if his avg salary is over $14M (I think we should be able to sign him for $12M, $14M is my max. One penny over $14M & we over payed).

Even though I believe he is truly worth $12M, I will think we got a hometown discount if we sign him at $12M or lower... such is the case of FA.

He has very good stats, but at the end of the day if you're talking about fearsome defensive end/OLB I can give you 10 guys who are more dangerous than Mario. For example, Dwight Freeney, Justin Tuck, Jason Pierre Paul, Clay Matthews, DeMarcus Ware, Julius Peppers, Jared Allen, Elvis Dumervil, and etc.

For everyone of those guys, you can find someone on their team who is a threat to get 8 sacks a year, or two or more guys who is a threat to get 5.

Mario has never had that luxury, until now. We have never had two or more players other than Mario to get 5 or more sacks in a single year. This year, was the first year someone other than Mario Williams got 8 or more sacks.

Antonio Smith will cost $8M against our cap & 2011 was the first year he finished with more than 5 sacks.

Sacks aren't the end all be all of DE stats, I know. But generally speaking, if your sack numbers are up, all your other numbers are up. Antonio may look like he's more "active" than Mario, but he's nowhere near as productive & he's only been making $1M/yr less than Mario for the last three years.

I don't want to see us in salary cap hell just because of one player. If the price is reasonable he should be re-signed if not then I wish him well and thank him for his hard work and no complain attitude.

We're not in the funny money days of years past. The Salary cap was at $129M prior to the expiration of the last CBA. Somehow, the owners got a big one over on the players & brought the cap down almost $10M for two consecutive years.

But you don't get into cap hell by paying players what they are worth. You get into hell by paying guys more than what they are worth. Mario is easily a top 10 DE in the league. Arguably top 5. He should be paid accordingly.

If there is a way, they'll make it work. I don't think Smithiak will over pay for Mario. That's what they are paid to do. If it's all about the dollars for Williams (which he has stated it wasn't) he'll be sent on his way. But don't be surprised to see him sign somewhere between $12M & $14M... & when it happens, don't say we overpaid.

 

[ThaShark316]

So far I've heard Dallas, Buffalo, Seattle, Denver, Oakland, Atlanta, Jacksonville, Tennessee, San Deigo, Miami, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Tampa Bay, New England. Chicago, Carolina and Detriot.

Mario's agent must be a busy man.

On that list...one team is better than the Texans (in 2011). And that 1 team, we would have kicked their asses had we got to face them.

 

[dalemurphy]

Antonio Smith will cost $8M against our cap & 2011 was the first year he finished with more than 5 sacks.

Sacks aren't the end all be all of DE stats, I know. But generally speaking, if your sack numbers are up, all your other numbers are up. Antonio may look like he's more "active" than Mario, but he's nowhere near as productive & he's only been making $1M/yr less than Mario for the last three years.
.

That is wildly inaccurate... Mario made $18 million just last season. Antonio wasn't making $17 million last year. So, I have no idea what you are talking about. Also, A. Smith was certainly more productive than Mario last year. Mario was on the bench, injured, when it mattered. I know anyone can get hurt. However, if you are paying a guy that kind of money, he needs to be a very good bet to stay healthy.