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Mario movement rumors (MERGED) Signs with Buffalo $100 million
- Thread starter gafftop
- Start date
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Best thing about signing Foster is that we won't "waste" money on Mario Williams for another season and he can go play half the time on another team now. We can use that money we would have paid him on other players we need to resign and other players at positions that we still have needs at. Great deal for the Texans to move forward now.
fans can move on from the Mario Williams hype as well now, because if Mario Williams had been on another team all these years there is no way in hell the majority of people on this board and in the Texan fan base would have been clamoring to sign this guy right now when we already had the best pass rush in Texans history without him and we can find other pass rushers for this system a lot easier now. No way fans would have wanted this organization to pay that kind of money to a guy who isn't even an elite pass rusher, but since he's already been a Texan, fans have had a confused idea about what is better for this team right now and Mario definitely isn't it.
We have other needs that we can hopefully address now which is CB, S, WR, and in the trenches. Hopefully management doesn't half ass it like they have in years past and gets some quality free agents like they finally did last season. That was the difference in the Texans this year along with Wade's arrival and his draft picks.
fans can move on from the Mario Williams hype as well now, because if Mario Williams had been on another team all these years there is no way in hell the majority of people on this board and in the Texan fan base would have been clamoring to sign this guy right now when we already had the best pass rush in Texans history without him and we can find other pass rushers for this system a lot easier now. No way fans would have wanted this organization to pay that kind of money to a guy who isn't even an elite pass rusher, but since he's already been a Texan, fans have had a confused idea about what is better for this team right now and Mario definitely isn't it.
We have other needs that we can hopefully address now which is CB, S, WR, and in the trenches. Hopefully management doesn't half ass it like they have in years past and gets some quality free agents like they finally did last season. That was the difference in the Texans this year along with Wade's arrival and his draft picks.
TexanSam
Hall of Fame
I agree with you for the most part. I think Williams is going to be overpaid by whoever signs him. And while he's been a very good player for us, I don't think he's going to be worth the kind of money that he's going to command. If we were well below the cap and signing him wouldn't stop us from resigning our other free agents, then I'd be all for bringing him back. But that doesn't appear to be the case.
Also agree that he's not an elite pass rusher. He's a very good one, but not elite. Close, but not quite there.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Dumervil on 1 side...Miller on the other...Williams anchoring that DL....nasty.
jaayteetx
All Pro
Yep, but it would be all about "Tebow just finding a way to win"...
Wolf
100% Texan
anyone know what the Bolts cap situation looks like?
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
I think that Sportrac is a good estimate, but not nearly as accurate as people with actual NFL connections. I tried playing with the numbers myself this offseason, and I got 98 million in capspace obligations as well. I would imagine the restructures are not accounted for, nor personal incentives earned. They go by what is reported, not insider info.
Maddict5
Hall of Fame
the exact figure hasnt been set yet but its gonna be in the 120m ballpark, which is generally what ppl are working with. its not going to come out that they cap is actually 130 or 140m or anything
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
Teams can also borrower a few million dollars from a future year... but I think that's a very VERY dangerous thing to do and I would strongly urge the Texans not to do that. We're just going to have to sign Brown, Cushing, Barwin, etc to new contracts and that's going to impact our cap significantly. Those are 3 guys we HAVE to keep.
The cap will go up, way up, once the new TV deal goes into effect. It would be foolish not to take advantage of the opportunity to borrow against next year's cap.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
Only 50% goes towards players' salaries and at that it only goes up incrementally each year. Likely won't go into effect next season anyways.
Plus we're going to need all the room we can get in the future as the contracts/cap hits of our recently restructured guys (Antonio, Demeco, AJ?) continually increase and adding in the new soon-to-be contract extensions of Foster (just happened), Duane Brown, Brian Cushin, Connor Barwin. If you think we're tight against the cap now, just wait. Even with the eventual cap increases.
Not really sure what the discussion is now. Are you still trying to figure out how to clear cap to sign Mario. It seems as though some of the restructuring done last year to sign JJ an Manning increased our cap hit for this year I guess.
Knowing this the FO should have known there was no way they could sign Mario this year, even more so than I ever thought back in April of last year.
The problem with doing this (getting rid of Mario last year) was that the FO and coaching staff was on the HOT seat to win last year. Getting rid of Mario for players and draft picks last year would not have helped them win last year even though obviously now for the growth of the team it would have been the right thing to do.
Mario seemed to be pretty good guy off the field. Sure have seen his donated Police cars on the roads lately.
Knowing this the FO should have known there was no way they could sign Mario this year, even more so than I ever thought back in April of last year.
The problem with doing this (getting rid of Mario last year) was that the FO and coaching staff was on the HOT seat to win last year. Getting rid of Mario for players and draft picks last year would not have helped them win last year even though obviously now for the growth of the team it would have been the right thing to do.
Mario seemed to be pretty good guy off the field. Sure have seen his donated Police cars on the roads lately.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
From all my emails with kirwan and gil, right now the texans have 4.7m of cap room. When 1201 of free agency, they will have 31m of cap room.
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
How's that. Sorry if I haven't been keeping up.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
All the contracts come off the books at 1201. All of the ufa become ufas at midnight Tuesday. That means mario 18m,meyers,3m,jason allen 2m,d ward,1.5m, and all the other players. Now unlike the nba, there aren't any holds or renouncing to use the money. At first, I thought this deal had to be done before free agency,but the more I think about it, they could have a deal lined up right now and are waiting for 1201 to offer mario and meyers
ckhouston
Veteran
I would do back-flips if they signed Mario, Myers, and Briesel at 12:01. Ok, maybe not literally or I would end up in traction, but in my head I would be a flipping fool.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
If that's true, then Foster eats up 7.5 million of that 31, bringing it down to 23.5 million. That's probably why Mario isn't re-signed yet, not enough dough to go around.
I think Myers is going to stay with the Texans. They traded for him, they made him who he is now, and he lives here in Houston with his family (wife and 2 kids). Him and his wife recently celebrated their 10 year anniversary, and look what he got her for it (from Facebook):
Isn't that sweet? You know that's going up on the wall in their living room. Why would he go have that picture made if he wasn't going to be wearing that uniform in the future?
I think he's going to have his agent get offers lined up from the Packers or Broncos and Orlando Pace/Leigh Bodden them. Use those offers as leverage against the Texans, and let them match it.
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
I'd be happy with this.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
If that's true, then Foster eats up 7.5 million of that 31, bringing it down to 23.5 million. That's probably why Mario isn't re-signed yet, not enough dough to go around.
I think Myers is going to stay with the Texans. They traded for him, they made him who he is now, and he lives here in Houston with his family (wife and 2 kids). Him and his wife recently celebrated their 10 year anniversary, and look what he got her for it (from Facebook):
Isn't that sweet? You know that's going up on the wall in their living room. Why would he go have that picture made if he wasn't going to be wearing that uniform in the future?
I think he's going to have his agent get offers lined up from the Packers or Broncos and Orlando Pace/Leigh Bodden them. Use those offers as leverage against the Texans, and let them match it.
23m is alot of money to go around. Part of the lockout was small revenue vs large revenue teams. Texans,cowboys,nyg,nyj and all the big revenue teams can get better players under the same cap because of the signing bonus. The signing bonus is cash over cap. Basically, money pulled from the revenue generated or money out of the owners pocket. 23m for a high revenue team vs a small revenue team is huge. Here is an example and I hope the non mario people only take this as an example and not the deal.
Texans offer mario a 6yr 80m contract with 42m guaranteed. In this guarantee, he gets a 36m signing bonus. They spread the sb over the 6yrs of the deal and in the 1st yr, he has a $1m salary.
Year-Salary-Bonus-Cap Charge
2012-1m-6m-7m
2013-6m-6m-12m
2014-8m-6m-14m
2015-8m-6m-14m
2016-10m-6m-16m
2017-11m-6m-17m
A small revenue team cant give a big signing bonus like that, so what they do is guarantee the 1st 3 yrs. Thats why the players in oakland have these bloated salaries that were guaranteed. A big revenue team like the texans can give out these bonuses and spread it out. Also, the new tv contract kicks in 2014 and the cap is suppose to jump to 190m. in the 1st 3 yrs of the deal, mario will pocket 51m for an average of 17m per yr. That leaves 17m to still do meyers and others. They did that without cutting players yet either. Teams like buffalo,jags,and chargers cant give the huge signing bonus because they are not a big revenue team.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
everyone's got a reason why it can't happen...what about the reasons it can?
If they manage to get all these guys back, i don't want to hear anyone complaining about us only drafting good character guys anymore b/c chances are at least 3 of these guys took less money to be here. Because that would be the payoff for taking guys like that....true professionals & team guys. Guys willing to restructure contracts to help get other guys in, guys willing to take a little less to help get others guys in, guys willing to switch positions for the better of the team..
Arian taking less than he could've held the texans up for...
This rumor about Mario working on something with the texans that will likely be less than what he could command out on the market..
and now this rumor about AJ restructuring to help us get a little cap room..
gotta love the team 1st atmosphere
If they manage to get all these guys back, i don't want to hear anyone complaining about us only drafting good character guys anymore b/c chances are at least 3 of these guys took less money to be here. Because that would be the payoff for taking guys like that....true professionals & team guys. Guys willing to restructure contracts to help get other guys in, guys willing to take a little less to help get others guys in, guys willing to switch positions for the better of the team..
Arian taking less than he could've held the texans up for...
This rumor about Mario working on something with the texans that will likely be less than what he could command out on the market..
and now this rumor about AJ restructuring to help us get a little cap room..
gotta love the team 1st atmosphere
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Search for posts by dalemurphy - you will see the prime example.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Sorry I-Cak, I just had to steal your comment and add to it a little
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
its not necessarily poor football logic...
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
its not necessarily poor football logic...just closet haterade is all. For instance, 1 of his main reasons for not wanting to bring mario back is b/c he's injury prone; he's quick to point out that Mario has finish the season on IR the last 2 years...Ok.
Mike Brisiel has finished the season on IR twice in the last 3 years & has missed more games than mario in his career due to injury....yet he advocates resigning him. his rationale? their was a noticable drop off. Really? The last colts game in we lost arian had 123 yds rushing. we know what arian did in 2010 without him...
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dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
If we could sign Mario to a 2 year $5 million deal, I would do it in a second. There is nothing illogical or hateful about believing it is irresponsible football business to give Mario a contract approaching $100 million.
If Brisiel was holding out for significant money I would be for cutting him loose, certainly. Though I believe Chris Myers is a key re-signing, if he holds out for elite center money, I think it is wise to move on from him as well. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it is sound logic.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I want the Texans to do business with long term and sustained success in mind. Of the teams that have been able to sustain success over the course of 10+ years (New England, Pittsburgh, Baltimore), they do not pay elite dollars to any players other than the QB. Teams can mortgage the future and sign players for the short term but there is a day of reckoning. Pittsburgh is experiencing some of that this year after starting to move away from their frugal philosophy the past two years. I realize the Texans could get their players signed for 2012. However, 2013 and 2014 free agents will cause a great deal of cap issues that will eventually cost the Texans dearly if they are carrying Mario's contract with them (Matt Schaub, Duane Brown, Connor Barwin, Glover Quin, Brian Cushing, Ben Tate, among others) I don't think Mario is important enough to cause/help cause that day of reckoning.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
the bolded is simply not true!
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
That simply is not true. What those teams do for frugality is not to be the team who signs a player to has last long term big money deal covering the declining part of his career. Exactly what McNair said last year before free agency and was excoriated for. Mario is not a 31-33 year old Mathis or Freeny looking for a long term contract he has no hope of playing out.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Like sands through the hourglass, so are the days of our lives. :kubepalm:
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Show the examples?
Of all those teams, I believe the most expensive contract is the Lamar Woodley deal: 6 and $61... by the way, it was done during an uncapped year. Who else? show me, please.
The Patriots overpayed for Adalius Thomas years ago and got out from under that contract as fast as possible. When the highly regarded A. Samuel became a free agent, they let him walk as they have with almost every player of theirs that has reached free agency and been highly sought after by other NFL teams.
Last time, I believe you tried to prove this point with Rodney Harrison, who had signed a 4 year deal with New England for $13 million.
If I'm wrong, show me!
Oh yeah, Troy Polamalu for 4 yrs and $36 million. Is that the monster deal? If we can get Mario for that, I'm fine with it.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Until I'Cak decided to say that I'm the prime example for poor football logic, I was finished with this thread. I'm waiting to hear what the poor logic is?
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
They don't sign monster deals, period, apart from their franchise Quarterback. Still, let's look at your argument. What has Mario done in the last 3 years to indicate he is an ascending, not descending player? He is young. That's true. However, his best season was in 2007 and he has declined, markedly, every season since. While I will acknowledge that the decline is largely due to injury, isn't that exactly what causes formerly great players to rapidly decline?
Why would anyone think Mario's best years are ahead of him? His last good season has been followed by three unimpressive seasons, each one less impressive than the previous. Is that the kind of trend you reward with a huge contract? Where is the football logic in that?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Wrong. Adalious Thomas to the Pats who also just franchised Welker and signed Mankins to a big contract. Polamalu signing an almost ten mil per year deal last year as a safety with the Steelers. Ngata signed a big deal with the Ravens. The teams you mention pay big bucks on positions other than QB when they think the talent is still there. They don't pay for has beens.
I've seen the rest of your arguments about Mario too many times and am not going to rehash them.
Most of his arguments are valid. Just because there are teams willing to pay elite wages to an above average player doesn't make the player elite. It only makes his salary elite.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I love the Foster signing: 5 and $43mil... We aren't talking about that, or Polamalu 4 and $36mil... love that too. We're talking about something north of Charles Johnson 6yrs and $72 million. That I don't like. Those numbers are real problems. Again, if Mario signs for Polamalu's $9 mill for 4 years, I'll be thrilled with that.
Obviously, the franchise tag has nothing to do with this discussion. Mario can't get tagged. And, the franchise tag doesn't mortgage the future the way a monster contract can.
I don't have the Mankins numbers in front of me... I think it was a $20 million signing bonus and a deal that was roughly 6 yrs and $50 million. That's a good-sized contract. Looking at it now, it is back-loaded with $7 million in salary each of the final two years. Therefore, he'll never see the final season of that deal. Like the Steelers, the Pats have payed very good players some significant contracts... But, nothing approaching/exceeding $15 million per year for 5 or more years. If the Texans can get Mario signed to a 4 or 5 year deal for less than $10 million per year, I'm all for it. Is that what you think will happen?
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I love the Foster signing: 5 and $43mil... We aren't talking about that, or Polamalu 4 and $36mil... love that too. We're talking about something north of Charles Johnson 6yrs and $72 million. That I don't like. Those numbers are real problems. Again, if Mario signs for Polamalu's $9 mill for 4 years, I'll be thrilled with that.
Obviously, the franchise tag has nothing to do with this discussion. Mario can't get tagged. And, the franchise tag doesn't mortgage the future the way a monster contract can.
I don't have the Mankins numbers in front of me... I think it was a $20 million signing bonus and a deal that was roughly 6 yrs and $50 million. That's a good-sized contract. Looking at it now, it is back-loaded with $7 million in salary each of the final two years. Therefore, he'll never see the final season of that deal. Like the Steelers, the Pats have payed very good players some significant contracts... But, nothing approaching/exceeding $15 million per year for 5 or more years. If the Texans can get Mario signed to a 4 or 5 year deal for less than $10 million per year, I'm all for it. Is that what you think will happen?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Try reading back through. He made a specific argument about certain teams only paying top dollar for QB's and it isn't true. And I made no argument players don't get overpaid at times.
And dale you should know better than to suggest any player is a must sign at any cost player in my opinion. I have trumpeted for years that every team has to decide a top dollar amount and if the player won't take it let them walk no matter how good they are. But really you have gone over the top on this Mario thing and it is coming across as a vendetta. It's one thing to say "I don't think an OLB is worth more than $11 mil per year no matter what" and another to spend the time and volume of posts you have on trying to encourage other people who similarly have no control over the situation that Mario should be released. Everybody in the TT world got it and has heard the same arguments as of six months ago. It has become a broken record you inject into everything. "We could sign a better long snapper if only we would release Mario."
PS - if Mankins doesn't decline severely $7 mil will be considered a bargain rather than getting cut.