1. According to McLain Routt isn't coming here. Said he was told that by Texans.
2. How did he come to that conclusion? I think the fans and media are have gotten carried away with this OPINION. Sounds like he is full of it.
Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
Mario movement rumors (MERGED) Signs with Buffalo $100 million
- Thread starter gafftop
- Start date
1. According to McLain Routt isn't coming here. Said he was told that by Texans.
2. How did he come to that conclusion? I think the fans and media are have gotten carried away with this OPINION. Sounds like he is full of it.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
I'm going to call bs on ur video guy and I'm going to tell you why. John abraham has never been able to play 3-4 despite his obvious build suited. Go look at hislast yr with the jets and there is a reason he was traded to atl. Averill , whom I like just got his groove going on a team where he is not the focus either. So yeah,I think its bs.
In other news, I talked with gil brandt on nfl radio and he said right now, the texans 53 man roster is at 112m of a possible 121m. That's including mario and his 17m cap hold. they have the money to do a deal and retain players and be active in free agent market. I really wish some people will understand roster bonus guaranteed is the same as signing bonus. No team in the league can afford to cut a plaer in the 1st 3 yrs of a deal without severe cap ramifications. Bad boy,dalemurphy and others, the gauranted 1st 3yrs of a deal which gives a roster bonus is given 1st day of new calender yr in nfl. So no matter what,player get their guaranteed money.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I am also dubious of that report. If you had that position you would have to be stupid to get that in public because the Texans will know who it was.
Not exactly. Roster bonus is not prorated while signing bonus is prorated.
I have my doubts about the legitimacy of it as well, but for other reasons. It doesn't really matter one way or another. The combine can't get here soon enough though so there will be more to talk about.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
That's only if they choose to. They can give a 36m signing bonus and put it in the 1st 3 yrs and have it paid for. Teams prorate the signing bonus to stretch it out,but its the same.
It is true, as you point out, that those teams have lots of cap space available. But it is also true that all those teams - with the possible exception of the Bengals - all SUCK. If you add the Texans to that list of prospective landing spots, it's obvious to me that we are the only team among them with a realistic shot at sniffing the Super Bowl in the near future. And I'd be amazed if having a legit shot at making the Super Bowl doesn't factor into his decision. He wouldn't be the first guy to "leave money on the table" in order to play with a winner.... even at his young age.
Maybe Mario will be all about the benjamins as some of you think. But I think (maybe "hope" is more accurate) staying with - and contributing to - a playoff team (maybe a SB team) has to mean as much as stuffing his bank acc't as full as he possibly can.
badboy
Hall of Fame
But, but John McClain said Texans had nothing lined up to visit with Routt & could not afford to sign any FAs other than some of their own!
On serious note, I really like Vinny Curry who could be there #58. Not sure I want any WR that will be there at #26 (Alshon Jeffery). Wright may be gone per several mocks I reviewed yesterday. Hmmm, Peter Konz 1st, VInny Curry 2nd (if Mario gone) & trade back into 2nd for Dwight Jones WR? 4th round Jordan WHite?
Last edited:
GP
Go Texans!
Me too.
If a guy did that, he's done. Fired. And possibly neutered during the exit interview.
No way would a scout guy reveal that information on the Internet. He might as well contact all 31 teams and tell them who we are targeting in free agency and our plans for the draft while he's at it.
GP
Go Texans!
Is Konz good enough to be a first rounder? I mean, that's spending your first round pick on a center....which is not a sexy pick, and he's gotta' have the goods as our future center to spend the pick there.
And Curry is from Marshall, IIRC. I have not seen any highlight material on the guy, but he's from....Marshall. What big-time, talent-loaded teams have they played and what has he done against them? Because drafting a guy in an early round, out of a small college, is always a risk IMO.
Michael Floyd, WR Notre Dame. Is he projected to be off the board before our pick?
badboy
Hall of Fame
So your saying a "roster bonus" is paid January1st? My understanding is a "roster bonus" is just that; player is on roster day 1 of "NFL season" player gets the full roster bonus. Your gonna have to provide something to support that.
On the bold that is more my understanding of team situation. $9m under cap; Mario's cap of $17m can be added if he leaves & the other 2012 Texans FAs cap would be same. I have frequently posted that Texans can sign their guys and be a player in free agency if they get friendly deals done with their own.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Good questions, GP. Konz has been reported as a true center that is a mid round first. My plan is to draft Wright & pick up a C/OG like TBob Hebert in 7th as Myers should be re-signed and seldoms misses a game. I threw Konz into conversation because Wright has moved up into teens on some boards I reviewed yesterday. I think Konz could adapt to OG also & maybe beat out Wade Smith during next season. Floyd is a very good WR but the 3 alcohol related issues should keep him away from Texans. Besides he again is mocked before #26. I'm not a fan of Alshon Jeffery but I respect my mock partner Beerlover who thinks if he was the pick AJ and others could keep him in line.
You just have to watch Curry play as he did in Senior's Bowl. He plays all over the field like Alabama's Courtney Upshaw. I prefer Ingram but he is a high first.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
I think realistically, the best the Texans can offer Mario is about 10 mill a year average. The reason being that we have to re-sign Myers and Foster to good deals, and then we have Duane Brown, Barwin, Cushing and Schaub as unrestricted free agents in 2013. Each of those guys will command a good amount of money if we want to keep them and I think each will be crucial to the future success of this team, moreso than Mario. However each of those guys are on relatively small value deals, so there won't be as much money to work with unless the cap expands dramatically. If we re-sign Mario for 12+ mill a year, I think it basically guarantees that we lose at least one of those 4 guys, maybe two depending on the deal.
If Mario wants to win a Super Bowl, then yeah the Texans are a good team for that. But if he's willing to give us a discount for that reason, maybe he's willing to do the same for the Pats, Saints or Packers. I think each of those teams is more likely to win in 2012 than the Texans due to their QB.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
The day a roster bonus is due is between the player and the team. Continuing the Antoine Winfield example they wrote his contract so a roster bonus was due the day he signed his contract which was an arbitrary day.
I've heard the cap from 2013 on may be as high as $180M, That's $60M more than it's expected to be for the 2012 season. Not saying we don't need to worry about Mario's cap hit beyond the 2012 season, but a $10M cap number for 2012 is what I'd be looking for, 2013 & beyond, that number can go as high as $16M & (imo) not affect our ability to resign Matt, Cushing, Brown, Barwin, Foster, or any other FA.
The cap will go up, the 53 man roster won't. Those 53 will be able to earn more money.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Trying to get this in my mind...isn't that a signing bonus? Guess you can call it whatever. I would not recommend any bonus to a player like that unless he was a borderline guy (history of injuries, age, etc). Thanks for the info.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Agree but at some point even with huge rise in cap, you have to have salary fit the player. I would sign off on Mario's first year at 10 but it better not climb much as contract progresses.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
It's semantics, and completely driven by cap managment. A roster bonus applies to only one year, and therefore, is included in it's entirety on that year's cap. A signing bonus applies to the entire life of the contract, and is prorated over all (remaining) years left in that contract. Depending on the circumstances, either one could be to the team's advantage, and because both are a lump sum payment, the player is really indifferent.
For example, part of what the Steelers did with Lawrence Timmons earlier this month was take a roster bonus due in the second year of the contract (2012) and convert it to a signing bonus (along with a significant portion of his second year base salary). So what you ended up with was an amount that was originally going to hit the 2012 cap being modified so only 20% of it hits the 2012 cap with another 20% hitting each year from 2013 - 2016 (it was originally a six year contract). Neither the timing or the amount of what was originally called a roster bonus changed at all, yet the cap ramifications are drastically different.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Badboy, I've read a lot of ur posts and its baffling that you're not understanding roster bonus concept. When a team guarantees 36m, it can be in the form of roster bonus and salary in the 1st 3 yrs because no team will cut that player in that time frame. So let's do this again. 6 yrs 72m 36m guaranteed in 1st 3 yrs. Basically , 12m per, 1st 3yrs.
6m sal in 17 game checks 6m roster bonus due when new league yr starts. Do this 2 more times and if mario sux or in injured, texans can cut him him without a penalty. If they give a 36m signing bonus and prorate it over the 6 yrs and he sux after 3rd and they cut him,18m is accelerated to the cap for the next 2 yrs. That means 9m per for 2 yrs of dead money. That's why 1st 3yr guarantee is better for the team and just as good for the player.
As I stated before, 53 man roster has 112m of 121m in contracts. That includes mario and his17m. Getting a deal with mario at 13m per gives the texans an extra 4m in cap room. That would give them 13m in cap room b4 any cuts. If they cut cody,walters, and let allen and ward go, they would have 21m cap room. 21m is a lot of cap room to get deals done with myers and foster. Its also enough to do an extension with duanne brown and sign some midlevel fas.
6m sal in 17 game checks 6m roster bonus due when new league yr starts. Do this 2 more times and if mario sux or in injured, texans can cut him him without a penalty. If they give a 36m signing bonus and prorate it over the 6 yrs and he sux after 3rd and they cut him,18m is accelerated to the cap for the next 2 yrs. That means 9m per for 2 yrs of dead money. That's why 1st 3yr guarantee is better for the team and just as good for the player.
As I stated before, 53 man roster has 112m of 121m in contracts. That includes mario and his17m. Getting a deal with mario at 13m per gives the texans an extra 4m in cap room. That would give them 13m in cap room b4 any cuts. If they cut cody,walters, and let allen and ward go, they would have 21m cap room. 21m is a lot of cap room to get deals done with myers and foster. Its also enough to do an extension with duanne brown and sign some midlevel fas.
The Roster bonus also adds into that "is guaranteed really guaranteed" debate. I think it is reported as guaranteed, but like Peyton Manning, if he is not on the roster March 8, $28 million of his "guranteed" money isn't paid to him & does not count against the Colts cap for 2012.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Roster bonuses aren't guaranteed... not like a signing bonus.
A signing bonus is given all at once.... Done!
A roster bonus is dependent on making the roster. Any roster bonus can be avoided by cutting a player before the date of the bonus. Peyton Manning's contract situation is a perfect example of that.
Your original example had Mario getting a roster bonus each year, spread over 6 years. Those are not guaranteed because the Texans could cut him at any point and be free of all the subsequent bonuses. In other words, Mario would never get that money and the Texans would not suffer cap ramifications for cutting him. If they can set up a deal like that with Mario, then I would be thrilled. I don't see it happening, though. A guy with his injury issues but still coveted by the NFL should (and likely is) looking for a monster signing bonus... and, he will likely be able to get it.
meh..... Mario may not see himself as "injury prone" in fact, he may be thinking the Texans prematurely IR'd him in 2011. I "heard" he was able to play Wild-card weekend, but couldn't.
I wonder how much sooner he "could have" played.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Just like most any other component of an NFL contract, a roster bonus can be guaranteed, and it can be guaranteed for injury, skill or both.
Take for example Stanford Routt:
LINK
Last edited:
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Then, why is that helpful to the Texans? If the thing is guaranteed anyway, regardless of what happens, then there is really no difference regarding the impact on the team or the cap. The only difference would be whether the play sees the money all at once or has to wait for it...
I'm not worried about Bob McNair being cash poor and unable to pay a big signing bonus. I'm concerned about being stuck with a huge contract that the team can't get out from under for a non-essential player, a questionable motor, and an injury history.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
It's helpful in deferring the cap hit to a year the team may be in a better position to absorb it, yet still providing the player with the guaranteed money that's so important.
By guaranteeing a roster bonus for next season (2013), the Texans allow themselves to provide guaranteed money that has zero impact on the 2012 cap, and take advantage of the anticipated increase in the 2013 cap. It also does it in a way that allows them to avoid cap ramifications after the 2013 season (The very thing you're concerned about) by avoiding the dead money that could be the remaining if they end up releasing the player with a year or two (or more) left on his contract. It can also be restructured to a signing bonus with literally zero financial impact on the player if a team does end up needing more cap room in the year of the guaranteed roster bonus (see Lawrence Timmons and his recent restructure with the Steelers).
I'm pretty sure they could guarantee the year 2 base salary and achieve roughly the same goal, but I would guess that from the Texans standpoint, they give themselves additional flexibility by keeping the roster bonus and base salary as two separate components, and from a players standpoint, he can receive the money in one lump sum in March (or June, or August, or whenever), as opposed to 17 weekly pieces starting sometime in Sept.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Before Mario was a fast twitch in Casserly's eye, there was the Moulds' thread.
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20305&highlight=moulds
Keep your gas cans filled, we're almost there.
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20305&highlight=moulds
Keep your gas cans filled, we're almost there.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Master of mis information. If you guarantee the 1st 3 yrs of his salary and roster bonus, he gets it regardless. If they guarantee 36m in the 1st 3 yrs and cut himv in the 4th,they owe nothing because he collected 36m guaranteed. Not to be a dick, but maybe you should listen or read guys like gil brandt,pat kirwin,andrew brandt. Those guys were gms and did thousands of contracts through the league. I've had this info breakdown from guys who've actually did contracts. Kirwin was the jets gm,brandt built the cowboys from birth till 89,and the other brandt was over contracts in green bay. Don't listen to guys like mcclain who is a simpleton. I'm just saying.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
It's funny that you mention Pat Kirwin... He doesn't think the Texans can afford Mario. He and Tim Ryan have been assuming Mario is headed somewhere else. Yesterday, Kirwin was talking about the Texans not being able to sign Foster and, possibly, having to tender him as an RFA, and the possibility of another team signing him away.
Why would Mario accept a deal with roster bonuses instead of one with a signing bonus. The signing bonus is the better deal. The signing bonus is money in the hand. Also, because of its affect on the cap if the Texans were to cut him, it guarantees the majority of his contract will be honored. Your earlier suggested 6 year deal for $73 million is a vastly inferior deal, from a players standpoint than a deal structured this way:
$36 million signing bonus
1. $3 million
2. $4 million
3. $5 million
4. $7 million
5. $8 million
6. $10 million
In this scenario (6yrs and $73 mil), the signing bonus ensures Mario wouldn't get cut until after the 4th year, at the earliest, essentially guaranteeing it to be a minimum contract of 4yrs and $55 mil...
Mario can get that, at minimum, in the open market. The deal you are suggesting (which I would be fine with them offering him) isn't going to be anywhere near the best deal he can get in free agency. Do you think he will give the Texans a discounted rate? Perhaps. I would be surprised though.
srrono
All Pro
Heres the truth about NFL
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...misses-hometown-discounts-hints-at-tampering/
Lions Cliff Avril dismisses hometown discounts, hints at tampering
If the Detroit Lions want to keep defensive end Cliff Avril, theyre going to have to put the franchise tag on him or offer him more money than any other team on the open market.
Avril made clear in an interview with SiriusXM NFL Radio that he has no intention of taking less money to stay in Detroit just because the Lions have a good thing going. Instead, he wants the Lions to reward him for being a big part of the good thing they have going. And he hinted that if the Lions arent going to do that, other teams have already expressed interest. (He didnt mention that other teams expressing interest would violate the leagues tampering rules.)
Theres no such thing as a hometown discount in the NFL, Avril said, via the Detroit Free Press. Once you cant play anymore, theyre going to let you go, so you definitely have to strike gold when you can.
Avril has said he doesnt want to be franchised, but he still holds out hope that the Lions will show him the money on a long-term contract. If the Lions dont do that, Avril suggested that other teams have already made their intentions clear.
I kind of think the Lions will try to do the right thing, I guess, he said. A lot of teams dont think the Lions will let me hit free agency. But a few teams have called.
The Detroit Free Press article based on Avrils SiriusXM interview doesnt make an issue of those comments, but if teams have called Avril, those teams are breaking NFL rules. The Lions, who were penalized for tampering last year, will surely be curious to know which teams have called one of their players.
I just want to be paid as one of the guys thats helping the team grow, Avril said. I want to be there. We have a young D-line. But I know its a business, and you only hit free agency once or twice in your career, so you definitely have to take advantage of it.
No one can blame Avril for wanting to take advantage. But the Lions can blame other teams if theyre trying to get an unfair advantage on signing Avril.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...misses-hometown-discounts-hints-at-tampering/
Lions Cliff Avril dismisses hometown discounts, hints at tampering
If the Detroit Lions want to keep defensive end Cliff Avril, theyre going to have to put the franchise tag on him or offer him more money than any other team on the open market.
Avril made clear in an interview with SiriusXM NFL Radio that he has no intention of taking less money to stay in Detroit just because the Lions have a good thing going. Instead, he wants the Lions to reward him for being a big part of the good thing they have going. And he hinted that if the Lions arent going to do that, other teams have already expressed interest. (He didnt mention that other teams expressing interest would violate the leagues tampering rules.)
Theres no such thing as a hometown discount in the NFL, Avril said, via the Detroit Free Press. Once you cant play anymore, theyre going to let you go, so you definitely have to strike gold when you can.
Avril has said he doesnt want to be franchised, but he still holds out hope that the Lions will show him the money on a long-term contract. If the Lions dont do that, Avril suggested that other teams have already made their intentions clear.
I kind of think the Lions will try to do the right thing, I guess, he said. A lot of teams dont think the Lions will let me hit free agency. But a few teams have called.
The Detroit Free Press article based on Avrils SiriusXM interview doesnt make an issue of those comments, but if teams have called Avril, those teams are breaking NFL rules. The Lions, who were penalized for tampering last year, will surely be curious to know which teams have called one of their players.
I just want to be paid as one of the guys thats helping the team grow, Avril said. I want to be there. We have a young D-line. But I know its a business, and you only hit free agency once or twice in your career, so you definitely have to take advantage of it.
No one can blame Avril for wanting to take advantage. But the Lions can blame other teams if theyre trying to get an unfair advantage on signing Avril.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Well all that says is he wants money. We all know examples where athletes in many sports have given discounts so it is a false statement.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Since you listen, just call in when you get a chance and pose the question and they will tell you the guarantee 1st 3yrs with salary and roster bonus is the same as a signing bonus. Manning had medical provisions in his contract thats why his roster bonus is being disputed. If they guarantee his 1st 3 yrs of salary and roster bonus thats money in the bank. Thats just as good as a signing bonus. You have the email, hit him and i'm sure he will email you back.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Being promised money is not the same as having it in your account. I'm not sure why you don't understand that. Also, you don't seem to understand the impact of the signing bonus on how the rest of the contract is viewed.
10 out of 10 players would prefer a signing bonus over a roster bonus stretched out over a few years, even if it is guaranteed.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Here's your example:
I posted for mario 6yrs 72m with 36m guaranteed in the 1st 3 yrs.
1st- 5m sal 5.5m roster bonus
2nd 6m sal 6.5m r. Bonus
3rd 6m sal 7m. r. Bonus
4th 10m sal 2m roster bonus
5th. 9m sal 3m r bonus
6th 8m sal. 4m r bonus
In this example, Mario only receives $10.5 million in his first season compared to $39 million in my example. You are guaranteeing $36 million over a 3 year period. In my example, he would immediately have $36 million in his account. Also, though, and this is the main point... His salaries the next 4 seasons are essentially guaranteed as well because the cap hit if he were cut would destroy the team. So, again, once he signs the deal, he would know he would receive at least $55 million over the first 4yrs and at least $48 million in the first three years... compared to your $36 million through 3 years.
My example of what he should, at minimum, be able to get in the free agent market:
$36 million signing bonus
1. $3 million
2. $4 million
3. $5 million
4. $7 million
5. $8 million
6. $10 million
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
He could at least tell us. We could keep a secret.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I know I can but I heard some terrible things about you.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
here is my take, dont know if it is possible, any capologists out there?
IF we resign him I would MUCH rather give him a big portion of that this season.....we need more room in the future for other players AND we have many contracts currently that escalate with time, we IMO need to give him a HUGE payout in year 1.....
so if we did 6/60
Lets pay him 18M AGAIN this season, take the 3 million allowance (each team can go OVER 120 cap 3 million this season) and apply directly to Mario, freeing up 3 million off cap space for a new deal for myers for this season
year 2 keep it higher, but come down a lot......say to 12 million, thats 30 million in 2 years
break down the rest at 7.5 throughout life of contract
Year 1 - 18 M
Year 2 - 12 M
Years 3-6 - 7.5 EACH
21.5 Million would be guarantees, (35% of it guaranteed), make year one guaranteed and split the rest up throughout life of contract (3.5 million spread out over 5 years), this makes his year one basically like a bonus, he gets 18 M right off the top then it starts to drop and we are not too invested in his guarantees later on
IDK if that makes sense or is even doable, but meh, I like it haha
IF we resign him I would MUCH rather give him a big portion of that this season.....we need more room in the future for other players AND we have many contracts currently that escalate with time, we IMO need to give him a HUGE payout in year 1.....
so if we did 6/60
Lets pay him 18M AGAIN this season, take the 3 million allowance (each team can go OVER 120 cap 3 million this season) and apply directly to Mario, freeing up 3 million off cap space for a new deal for myers for this season
year 2 keep it higher, but come down a lot......say to 12 million, thats 30 million in 2 years
break down the rest at 7.5 throughout life of contract
Year 1 - 18 M
Year 2 - 12 M
Years 3-6 - 7.5 EACH
21.5 Million would be guarantees, (35% of it guaranteed), make year one guaranteed and split the rest up throughout life of contract (3.5 million spread out over 5 years), this makes his year one basically like a bonus, he gets 18 M right off the top then it starts to drop and we are not too invested in his guarantees later on
IDK if that makes sense or is even doable, but meh, I like it haha
The guarantee is going to have to be closer to $42M.... that's what Peppers got to go to Chicago. He'll actually earn closer to $51M (because of escalators) if he plays a third season in Chicago.
Charles Johnson with the Panthers got $32M guaranteed with a $30M signing bonus. Most likely the first year salary was $2M, so the rest of the contract is not guaranteed. But, since it is a 6 year deal they carry 5M/yr towards the cap. Cutting him in year 2, would cost them $25M towards the cap. Cutting him year 3 would cost them $20M. Cutting him year 4 would leave $15M. Year 5.... $10M, then year 6 (the final year of the contract) would leave $5M of dead money. As long as his cap number does not exceed that dead money, he's pretty much guaranteed to be on that team. With a $72M contract, $12M/avg his cap number would probably exceed the dead money around year 4....
Six in one hand, half a dozen in the other.... if the Texans feel good enough about signing Mario to a long term deal, they most likely won't be thinking about cutting him in 3 or 4 years anyway.
There is also a difference between guaranteed & fully guaranteed. Peyton Manning's money wasn't fully guaranteed, he was supposed to earn $69M over the first 3 years of his new contract. Looks like he may not make half of that.
So yeah, you can tell Mario his $36M is fully guaranteed over the first three years, but if I were his financial planner, I'd tell him the interest on $36M in the first year alone would get him a new Ferrari or two.
Found this earlier
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
I would think his price already out of the Texans budget, but appealing to his potential personal success may make him more inclined to give us a discount. Does he want to stay here and go for records and rings, or go to the highest bidder and waste away the next 5 years in Tampa, Jax, Cleveland or Buffalo? He saw what Wade can do this year, if Wade believes in him maybe he will come back.
srrono
All Pro
At age 27, Mario Williams has 53 career sacks. Despite the fact he played just five games last season, no current player in the NFL as young as Williams has collected as many sacks in their career.
At the time of his injury in 2011, only three players had more sacks since Williams' rookie year in 2006: DeMarcus Ware, Jared Allen and Trent Cole. All of those players are older than Williams, thus the assertion that Williams could become the NFL's highest paid defensive player during free agency and why the Texans desire to retain him.
Regardless of the complaint by some fans that Williams' motor isn't always revved, he is one of the elite pass rushers in the game. And if you've noticed, Super Bowl champions have two very important things in common these days: Excellent quarterback play and an excellent pass rush.
"You have to have good players, but you need some great players," said Texans defensive coordinator Wade Phillips.
Some fans believe that with the emergence of linebackers Connor Barwin and Brooks Reed, Williams is a very expensive luxury, not a necessity. Phillips begs to differ.
As for Williams' supposed disinterest at times, Phillips said that simply wasn't true even after the season-ending chest injury.
"A lot of guys, when they go on injured reserve, kind of drift away from the team," Phillips said. "He was so supportive all the way through the playoffs."
Williams even addressed his teammates the evening prior to the playoff matchup with the Ravens in a speech Phillips described as "passionate."
Williams has certainly had head-scratching times when those around him wondered about a consistent effort. But he's also had stretches of dominance that can only be displayed by the special ones.
Because Phillips' 3-4 scheme requires an abundance of linebackers, the Texans will have to address that need in free agency if Williams ends up with another team. While Brian Cushing, DeMeco Ryans, Barwin and Reed were terrific, depth became an issue.
"We really didn't have any back-up players anybody in case they went out," Phillips said.
With nearly a month remaining before the start of free agency, it's simply too soon to determine where Williams will end up. Last year, virtually no one had the Eagles as the team most likely to sign cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha.
Williams appeared genuinely excited when the Texans went to the 3-4 scheme last year, and he was getting more comfortable with the move to linebacker before he suffered the injury which ended his season.
In praising Williams, Phillips threw in this nugget: "He's gotta chance to be the all-time leader maybe even break the sack record. Those things are in the future here, we hope. I have good feelings about the whole thing."
Bruce Smith is the all-time leader in sacks with 200. To mention Williams in that sort of company may be a sales job by Phillips, but the numbers suggest it's not a wacky prediction. After his first five years, Smith had 57.5 sacks, only 4.5 more than Williams, and Smith played 19 years to put up those numbers.
http://www.foxsportshouston.com/02/...anding_texans.html?blockID=668194&feedID=3551
At the time of his injury in 2011, only three players had more sacks since Williams' rookie year in 2006: DeMarcus Ware, Jared Allen and Trent Cole. All of those players are older than Williams, thus the assertion that Williams could become the NFL's highest paid defensive player during free agency and why the Texans desire to retain him.
Regardless of the complaint by some fans that Williams' motor isn't always revved, he is one of the elite pass rushers in the game. And if you've noticed, Super Bowl champions have two very important things in common these days: Excellent quarterback play and an excellent pass rush.
"You have to have good players, but you need some great players," said Texans defensive coordinator Wade Phillips.
Some fans believe that with the emergence of linebackers Connor Barwin and Brooks Reed, Williams is a very expensive luxury, not a necessity. Phillips begs to differ.
As for Williams' supposed disinterest at times, Phillips said that simply wasn't true even after the season-ending chest injury.
"A lot of guys, when they go on injured reserve, kind of drift away from the team," Phillips said. "He was so supportive all the way through the playoffs."
Williams even addressed his teammates the evening prior to the playoff matchup with the Ravens in a speech Phillips described as "passionate."
Williams has certainly had head-scratching times when those around him wondered about a consistent effort. But he's also had stretches of dominance that can only be displayed by the special ones.
Because Phillips' 3-4 scheme requires an abundance of linebackers, the Texans will have to address that need in free agency if Williams ends up with another team. While Brian Cushing, DeMeco Ryans, Barwin and Reed were terrific, depth became an issue.
"We really didn't have any back-up players anybody in case they went out," Phillips said.
With nearly a month remaining before the start of free agency, it's simply too soon to determine where Williams will end up. Last year, virtually no one had the Eagles as the team most likely to sign cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha.
Williams appeared genuinely excited when the Texans went to the 3-4 scheme last year, and he was getting more comfortable with the move to linebacker before he suffered the injury which ended his season.
In praising Williams, Phillips threw in this nugget: "He's gotta chance to be the all-time leader maybe even break the sack record. Those things are in the future here, we hope. I have good feelings about the whole thing."
Bruce Smith is the all-time leader in sacks with 200. To mention Williams in that sort of company may be a sales job by Phillips, but the numbers suggest it's not a wacky prediction. After his first five years, Smith had 57.5 sacks, only 4.5 more than Williams, and Smith played 19 years to put up those numbers.
http://www.foxsportshouston.com/02/...anding_texans.html?blockID=668194&feedID=3551
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
Mario Williams is very important to re-sign or franchise tag. I want him to be around for a full 16 games and playoffs (Super Bowl) in 2012 and 2013. There is no question about the type of value he has, especially with a good defensive coordinator, which he finally got for the first time in his entire career. It would be a real shame for him not to be in Wade Phillips' defensive system.
I don't know about breaking the all-time sack record -- DeMarcus Ware of the Cowboys, another guy Wade Philips got to coach (as a head coach) will probably do it. But Mario Williams is definitely in that conversation with those elite players and Hall of Famers like Bruce Smith. Super Mario will have some 15-20 plus sack seasons if he stays with Wade.
I don't know about breaking the all-time sack record -- DeMarcus Ware of the Cowboys, another guy Wade Philips got to coach (as a head coach) will probably do it. But Mario Williams is definitely in that conversation with those elite players and Hall of Famers like Bruce Smith. Super Mario will have some 15-20 plus sack seasons if he stays with Wade.
The Texans won't/can't franchise tag Williams. McNair has already said as much. The Texans want Mario back. Wade, Gary, & Bob have all said so. Mario wants to stay, as well. The Texans can make him a good offer, but it won't be the highest offer. The question is, just how crazy will the money offered to Williams get? 9 figures with $40-$50 million guaranteed? I don't know how anyone could turn that down. But if someone could, it would be a player who has already banked $50+million and gets an offer of $30+ million guaranteed from his current team.
Despite all of the doom and gloom, I'm more convinced than ever that Mario is staying.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Ok dalemurphy, just so we can move to a better place,I'm going to say this and let it die. Pretty much what tk said is my point. No matter what kind of deal mario signs,I think the best way to handle it is a full guarantee in the 1st 3yrs. A full guarantee in the 1st 3 yrs is beneficial to a player of marios age,position,and injury history. Its also good for the team to protect itself from poor play of injury. When you fully guarantee the 1st 3 yrs in the form of salary and roster bonus,there is no dead weight if somethint happens after yr 3. A full guarantee for a player is also beneficial because he has his moneyand he know they can't cut him before 3 yrs also. I don't know if I can make it any simplier than that.
Fully guarantee contracts in the 1st 3 yrs keeps dead money off the books. Unlike signing bonus which is prorated over the life of the deal. The deal you proposed with the 36m signing bonus, if mario takes a career ending injury after yr 3, all the remaining money of that 36m is accelerated into the next 2 yrs. So if its 24m unpaid because of your "ladder", then that's 12m in each of the following yrs. If 36m is fully guaranteed in the 1st 3yrs and he has that same career ending injury, there won't be any dead money because it was paid already. Does that make sense? As I say, its like paying in cash vs a credit card.
Fully guarantee contracts in the 1st 3 yrs keeps dead money off the books. Unlike signing bonus which is prorated over the life of the deal. The deal you proposed with the 36m signing bonus, if mario takes a career ending injury after yr 3, all the remaining money of that 36m is accelerated into the next 2 yrs. So if its 24m unpaid because of your "ladder", then that's 12m in each of the following yrs. If 36m is fully guaranteed in the 1st 3yrs and he has that same career ending injury, there won't be any dead money because it was paid already. Does that make sense? As I say, its like paying in cash vs a credit card.
A little off topic, but did you know Adrian Peterson's monster deal came with no signing bonus?
Peppers original contract contained a $6.5M signing bonus....
Maybe these signing bonuses aren't as important to "mega-star" players as they used to be.
Peppers original contract contained a $6.5M signing bonus....
Maybe these signing bonuses aren't as important to "mega-star" players as they used to be.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
Its called a hometown discount, because if he commands as much as you say we wont be able to afford him
If I am correct & the high end of the market is $14M/yr ($14 x 3 = $42M over 3 years) there is no reason we can not structure the deal so his cap hit for 2012 is closer to $10M
You keep saying he'll cost too much, or that we won't be able to afford him. Everything I've shown, & the others who've suggested contracts to keep Mario has shown a reasonable contract offer that will reduce his 2012 cap number (~$10M) compared to his 2011 cap hit (~$18M) leaving money to sign Foster & Myers ($5M to Foster, $3M to Myers) with the savings alone.
This doesn't take into account the other 15 FA that will be coming off our books, saving us money. This doesn't take into account we have several contracts that can be re-structured (to put more money in the players hands sooner & lower our cap). This doesn't take into account the $1M we can roll-over from 2011, or the $3M we'll be allowed to borrow from 2013.
So, when you say we won't be able to afford to keep Mario, could you please be a little more specific as to why not?
b0ng
Bad Hombre
I think the idea that people are using when they say that we can't afford him is that there will be a team that will outbid us even if we give him every last piece of our cap space.
If Mario hits the open market, I'm not saying he's for sure gone, but it's going to be very difficult for him to resist the temptation of being probably the highest paid defensive player in the NFL. It's not every year that a 27 year old stud pass rusher comes onto the open market. He may have some injury issues, but teams like Seattle, Jacksonville, or whoever are probably going to be more than happy to risk many 10's of millions of dollars on Mario Williams. If Mario wants to stay a Texan it's almost a guarantee that he will have to take a deal that will give the Texans enough cap space to sign Foster to a nice contract, because that guy is pretty much the heart and soul of the offense. Foster doesn't need to have a giganto contract like Peterson or Johnson, but I think we need to offer him top5 RB salary because that's what he is.
I do believe Williams wants to stay in Houston based off of the few articles already posted here, but want to, and will are worlds apart.