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Schaub injured (update)

If the Texans offense with HTM,aj,od, foster and tate can put up 21 points. .

I like my chances.

Sometimes I think some people on here think HTM needs to be all world. All he needs to do is play within the system and not turn the ball over
 
thunderkyss said:
What do you make of not coming right out & saying surgery is the only option..... I mean they did more tests today & have sent the x-ray or MRI to some specialist & waiting for a guy who is out of the country, etc... etc..

If it were the situation you described, we wouldn't need to go for all these second & third opinions right?
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TK, I wish I could answer your question (which is a good question), but I can't with certainty, mainly since we don't even know if this is a true Lisfranc which involves a fracture of a metatarsal bone (one of the long mid foot bones) along with a separation of that bone with its more proximal attachment to an ankle bone........or if it may be solely a metatarsal fracture without the accompanying separation and associated ligament damage. There may still be a question of a true separation if it demonstrates borderline measurement.

Don't forget, though, how often these same scenarios of not really being told what they may know........things that they must have known pretty much from the beginning, but chose not to reveal it until they decided that "hiding it" any longer served no further purpose. Who knows at this point? Who knows when and if we find out what the real facts of injury ever come out.

One thing that I can tell you is that no injury is made BETTER by allowing it to be played on. I also question why he was not made to elevate his foot or, better yet, why he would be allowed to bear weight let alone walk on his booted foot BEFORE a definitive diagnosis could be made. Reminds me of watching Tate being encouraged to weight bear and walk off the field unassisted after his catastrophic injury.........only to finally give out when he reached the sideline. Again, I wish I had all the answers for you, but I just don't.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
TK, I wish I could answer your question (which is a good question), but I can't with certainty, mainly since we don't even know if this is a true Lisfranc which involves a fracture of a metatarsal bone (one of the long mid foot bones) along with a separation of that bone with its more proximal attachment to an ankle bone........or if it may be solely a metatarsal fracture without the accompanying separation and associated ligament damage. There may still be a question of a true separation if it demonstrates borderline measurement.

Don't forget, though, how often these same scenarios of not really being told what they may know........things that they must have known pretty much from the beginning, but chose not to reveal it until they decided that "hiding it" any longer served no further purpose. Who knows at this point? Who knows when and if we find out what the real facts of injury ever come out.

One thing that I can tell you is that no injury is made BETTER by allowing it to be played on. I also question why he was not made to elevate his foot or, better yet, why he would be allowed to bear weight let alone walk on his booted foot BEFORE a definitive diagnosis could be made. Reminds me of watching Tate being encouraged to weight bear and walk off the field unassisted after his catastrophic injury.........only to finally give out when he reached the sideline. Again, I wish I had all the answers for you, but I just don't.
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Why dont you work for the Texans medical staff? Seriously.
 
GP said:
If the x-ray didn't produce a definitive "picture" of what might be there, then maybe it's not as severe? I get what you're saying though--It could take 10 days and more "pictures" to see more clearly what's going on in his foot, correct?

Which, if I am thinking correctly, is why Kubiak said that Schaub is going to have several more looksies at it over the next two weeks. Maybe?

Am I on the right track, or no?
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Definitely as relate to plain x-rays. An MRI is more likely to pick up early problems, but they still may take several days to completely define. For further thoughts related to your question, see my above response to TK's question[Post #403].
 
I refuse to be a pessimist about this situation. Elite teams rally around injured star players and everyone else on the field plays better and harder because of it. I would rather Schaub be in but I guarantee our offense and defense will step up their game even more to help balance things out. I figured after Andre Johnson and Mario Williams were gone that our team would once again fail to rise to the challenge but they surprised me, and a lot of other people on this board and won games. These last games is where we prove that we belong as the #1 team in the AFC even without all our best lineup in the game.
 
thunderkyss said:
Why?

Do you, or do you not like what Schaub has done over the past 5 years? Matt Schaub was not a 1st or 2nd round pick, not until we gave up two 2nds to get him.
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I don't like the long-term idea of Matt Schaub as "the guy." Hell, TK, we're even needing to start addressing how we'll replace Andre Johnson.

This is not panic, this is PLANNING for the future. This is saying "We have the run game down. We have the defense down. We just need a plan for QB...and most likely we need a plan for WR too." That day is coming, and why not do it in 2012 Draft and let Schaub play out his contract in 2012 and allow the red shirt freshman QB sit and watch, soak up the offense with no pressure to perform immediately??? It can work. There are ZERO long-term QB options in free agency, TK.

Favre, IMO, is a guy you hire when you got all bases covered everywhere else. He would command immediate respect for the remainder of the 2011 season. He might not even have to play if Leinart holds down the fort well enough. But he's THERE if we need him. We got caught flat-footed vs. Oakland--We didn't implement a non-AJ gameplan and it cost us that game, IMO--and we can't afford to just assume Leinart will be adequate. Not with how we got a stranglehold on the division and might even get a bye...maybe even homefield advantage too. The time is now. You pull out all the stops.

Because nobody here wants Leinart getting hurt and we're all watching TJ Yates scamper onto the field and wonder how in the hell he got thrown in here like this, under THIS set of circumstances. Leinart wants it badly. I won't say TJ Yates doesn't want it, but you know he'd be thunderstruck a bit as compared to Leinart/Favre.

I want what's best for 2011 and beyond. I don't think Schaub is the long-term QB here. I don't think Leinart is either. TJ Yates? A long shot, to say it nicely. When do you start trying to find a QB for the future, TK? It better not be too late, or you're throwing him to the wolves and Kubiak won't settle for anything less than what he had out of Schaub.

We need a ballsy QB, a guy who has the rifle and wants to shoot defenses down. Favre could be the lifeboat of this potential Titanic moment we've got going on, but we need a whole new ship because I'm afraid the hull damage to Schaub is irreparable long-term.

That's the key: Who is QB1 two years from now? Schaub can have 2012 to play it out and see what's there for him, and we can watch him in 2012 and see if he's OK too...but what will be his price for 2013 and beyond? We have to address these things N-O-W, IMO. NOW. Or 2011 will be a nice after thought as we trudge through 2012 and 2013 trying to figure out why the run game won't work like it did in 2011.

It's a real problem, right now as the situation stands, and it gets bigger as time drags on. If nobody is worried about that, I'm afraid they're letting a 7-3 record in 2011 get to their head a bit. Even the Titans tried to get a different QB1 (Hasselbeck) and drafted Locker to try this approach. Whether it works or not is not the point, it's what you do when you had a QB1 "situation" no matter what that situation was/is. It's what you do. It's all you can do.
 
And I honestly don't think that going out and trying to grab Favre is going to help anything. Maybe we can get Boomer out of the booth while were at it. Whats Aikman doing these days.
 
I'm trying to find some perspective. At first glance, the injury to Shrub appears to be devastating to the Texans season. How can a team succeed with a season ending injury to their starting QB? But, their are some reasons why I'm less concerned than I was initially.

One, this is now a run first offense. The Texans have a 55/45 run/pass ratio this season. Arian Foster is now the centerpiece of the offense. His backup, Ben Tate, is on pace for a 1,000 yard season. While Schaub has played well ar times this year, I don't think the Texans have a single victory that you can sayithat he was the determining factor. I think it is entirely possible the Texans could be sitting at 7-3 with Leinart as quarterback all seas

Two, this is a QB friendly offense. With the play action and boots, The QB gets a lot of open looks. And with Foster, Daniel, and a returning Andre Johnson, Leinart will have playmakers that can take the pressure off him.

Three, how about that defense! The top ranked unit in the league. Teams average 16.6 points per game against the Texans. Basically, treating most offenses as if they were the Manning-less Colts. It's not like 2010, when the offense needed to put 30 on the board for a chance to win.

Finally, the remaining schedule. The Texans will play teams with a combined 21-34 record. It doesn't get much easier than that in the NFL. Just play. 500 ball the rest of the way, and this franchise gets its first division title in the watered down AFC South.

No, I'm not happy with this bit of news. I still believe that Matt Schaub will be the starting QB for the Texans, opening day 2012. I just don't believe this season is over
 
People can knock me for my long posts, but at least I'm not cryptic in my ideas on here. I don't flip-flop. I pick a position and stick with it (Hell, I'm even sticking with my signature pic until 2011 shakes itself out completely).

So when I type long posts, it's because I feel strongly and I want to say what I want to say and not have anybody twist my words or whatever.

So I'm sorry if my posts are long. I'm working on my entire train of thought when I do that. I think Leinart can get it done, but if he can't...there is zero reason why McNair doesn't at least try to grab another QB immediately so that we don't have TJ Yates as QB2. I'm sorry, I don't hate the guy or anything...it just is what it is.

We're one QB injury away from being COMPLETELY finished. Does nobody understand that? TJ Yates is not Ryan Fitzpatrick. He's not ready, he's not some unheralded guy who just needs a chance to shine out there. He's TJ Yates, and he needs time to sit and watch...not be responsible for rescuing our season.
 
All I know is, everyone got pissed when we were bitching about injuries and said it's not even close to a Packers situation...


....well shove it, it is. Foster, Tate, Ward, Andre, Casey, Mario, Manning, Sharpton, and now Schaub? Perhaps even missing a player or two.

Let's see what we're made of.
 
GP said:
I want what's best for 2011 and beyond. I don't think Schaub is the long-term QB here. I don't think Leinart is either. TJ Yates? A long shot, to say it nicely. When do you start trying to find a QB for the future, TK? It better not be too late, or you're throwing him to the wolves and Kubiak won't settle for anything less than what he had out of Schaub.
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Well, every QB that Kubiak had start for this club has put up decent numbers one way or the other. Schaub was a 3rd round pick & has played pretty well. He's on a team now, that doesn't need a whole lot from the QB position, but Matt has shown that he's got more than enough to get the job done.

I think.

Starters aren't easy to come by in this league & we've got one in Schaub. But we've also been bringing QBs in & searching for Matt's replacement since he got here.

That's what Orlovsky was.. a shot in the dark, that's what Sage was, that's what Lienart is. TJ as well, Alex Brink... didn't we have Brohm here for a little while?
 
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TheMatrix31 said:
All I know is, everyone got pissed when we were bitching about injuries and said it's not even close to a Packers situation...


....well shove it, it is. Foster, Tate, Ward, Andre, Casey, Mario, Manning, Sharpton, and now Schaub? Perhaps even missing a player or two.

Let's see what we're made of.
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I was thinking this same thing. If the Packers won the Super Bowl the year they supposedly led the league in injuries during that reg season...there is no reason we cannot man up and do the same thing.

I honestly think Leinart got a confidence boost when he decided to stay here instead of going to Seattle. It was him admitting that he is in a good place, and that meant (for him) that being in a good place was better than trying to be QB1 in Seattle. Like someone else said, "Aren't we glad he didn't go to Seattle and we're sitting here with Orlovsky or Yates right now???"

And I also think he gets a boost from seeing the defense continue onward without Mario Williams, watching Brooks Reed hold that spot down and produce sacks out of what we thought could have been a bad, bad ordeal for us.

All in all, Leinart wanted this chance and now he's got it. Let's hope he doesn't mess it up for himself and Texans nation. That's the only reason I want another veteran QB in here right now...to catch Leinart if he falls.
 
GP said:
People can knock me for my long posts, but at least I'm not cryptic in my ideas on here.
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It's not that your posts are long, it's that they are in fact not cryptic & we can tell that you actually believe the crap you're writing.
 
thunderkyss said:
Well, every QB that Kubiak had start for this club has put up decent numbers one way or the other. Schaub was a 3rd round pick & has played pretty well. He's on a team now, that doesn't need a whole lot from the QB position, but Matt has shown that he's got more than enough to get the job done.

I think.

Starters aren't easy to come by in this league & we've got one in Schaub. But we've also been bringing QBs in & searching for Matt's replacement since he got here.

That's what Orlovsky was.. a shot in the dark, that's what Sage was, that's what Lienart is. TJ as well, Alex Brink... didn't we have Brohm here for a little while?
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I don't think I've said we haven't tried out QBs. It's just that I look at those "shots at another QB" as being acquisitions aimed at INSURANCE against a Schaub injury, such as Leinart has turned out to be for us, not as "We need to get the true QB1 for the long-term in here and be serious about it."

Two different things, IMO. We were looking for a backup, now we have to be serious about a QB1 in case this injury proves out like it did for Eric Rhett and Deuce Staley (they were essentially finished after suffering a Linsfranc injury).

This is not panic, this is not me slighting Schaub. This is saying the family minivan has some serious noises going on under the hood and we need to maybe start looking at another minivan before our current one completely falls apart. That's fair to everybody. Even to Matt Schaub since I know he'd get a shot in his contract year in 2012 regardless of what we do in the draft.
 
I may be way off base here, and I'm just thinking outloud, but can't they just shoot him up before the game & at halftime? The injury happened in the 2nd quarter and he still played through it. I'm sure it will make the injury linger and possibly get worse, but he can then have surgery in the offseason to repair any significant damages. It may not be the popular choice or even logical, but I'm wondering if it's an option. These guys get paid millions to play, and that includes playing hurt. They all do it. I just don't know if this is one of those injuries that you can will yourself through if you have the right concoction to control the swelling and deal with the pain. I welcome comments, as I said, I'm just thinking outloud here.
 
Cjeremy635 said:
I may be way off base here, and I'm just thinking outloud, but can't they just shoot him up before the game & at halftime? The injury happened in the 2nd quarter and he still played through it. I'm sure it will make the injury linger and possibly get worse, but he can then have surgery in the offseason to repair any significant damages. It may not be the popular choice or even logical, but I'm wondering if it's an option. These guys get paid millions to play, and that includes playing hurt. They all do it. I just don't know if this is one of those injuries that you can will yourself through if you have the right concoction to control the swelling and deal with the pain. I welcome comments, as I said, I'm just thinking outloud here.
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Probably not the best decision, although Big Ben has done something similar and his full injury wasn't disclosed.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5876391
 
thunderkyss said:
I'm just playing with you GP....
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I know, but I have to clarify for those who would take what we say to each other and make **** out of it. Know what I mean?

I like what you said earlier about how people shouldn't be saying "Now we get to see if the Schaub haters enjoy getting their wish..." when in essence that's also saying "I can't wait for Leinart to stink up the joint so you can see how good Schaub was in the first place."

To me, that post has been the best post in the entire thread. Seriously.

We DO have to rally around this team right now. 100%. We have to believe that fate is not dealing us a death card...we're actually going to show the critics out there that the TEXANS have the best TEAM and we're not a one-man show like the Colts are.

We can lose our top defensive guy. We can lose another guy in Danieal Manning too. We can lose AJ, We can lose Foster. We can lose Schaub. But we're still going to beat YOUR ASS even without those guys. In fact, this year is the year that the "Texans are soft" label gets ripped up and shoved up Michael Lombardi's ass and the tattered edges that hang out of his asshole are lit on fire.

I believe it. I think Kubiak is fed up with it. I think his kids are fed up with it. I think we utterly SMASH the Jags and the media talking heads explode and ooze all over the floors of the ESPN studio because they just can't believe the Texans are relentless like zombies. You have to hit us in the brain to kill us, or we will chew your face off and snack on your guts.

I really think we're this year's version of the 2010 Packers. Whether we win the whole thing or not, IMO, is another matter. But the relentless push onward, regardless of who gets hurt for us, is staggering when you analyze it. I'm no worried. But I want that hired gun slinger in case Leinart falls.
 
GP said:
I know, but I have to clarify for those who would take what we say to each other and make **** out of it. Know what I mean?

I like what you said earlier about how people shouldn't be saying "Now we get to see if the Schaub haters enjoy getting their wish..." when in essence that's also saying "I can't wait for Leinart to stink up the joint so you can see how good Schaub was in the first place."

To me, that post has been the best post in the entire thread. Seriously.

We DO have to rally around this team right now. 100%. We have to believe that fate is not dealing us a death card...we're actually going to show the critics out there that the TEXANS have the best TEAM and we're not a one-man show like the Colts are.

We can lose our top defensive guy. We can lose another guy in Danieal Manning too. We can lose AJ, We can lose Foster. We can lose Schaub. But we're still going to beat YOUR ASS even without those guys. In fact, this year is the year that the "Texans are soft" label gets ripped up and shoved up Michael Lombardi's ass and the tattered edges that hang out of his asshole are lit on fire.

I believe it. I think Kubiak is fed up with it. I think his kids are fed up with it. I think we utterly SMASH the Jags and the media talking heads explode and ooze all over the floors of the ESPN studio because they just can't believe the Texans are relentless like zombies. You have to hit us in the brain to kill us, or we will chew your face off and snack on your guts.

I really think we're this year's version of the 2010 Packers. Whether we win the whole thing or not, IMO, is another matter. But the relentless push onward, regardless of who gets hurt for us, is staggering when you analyze it. I'm no worried. But I want that hired gun slinger in case Leinart falls.
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I have the oddest boner right now....
 
Cjeremy635 said:
I may be way off base here, and I'm just thinking outloud, but can't they just shoot him up before the game & at halftime? The injury happened in the 2nd quarter and he still played through it. I'm sure it will make the injury linger and possibly get worse, but he can then have surgery in the offseason to repair any significant damages. It may not be the popular choice or even logical, but I'm wondering if it's an option. These guys get paid millions to play, and that includes playing hurt. They all do it. I just don't know if this is one of those injuries that you can will yourself through if you have the right concoction to control the swelling and deal with the pain. I welcome comments, as I said, I'm just thinking outloud here.
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I'm sure he was shot up just to make it to the point he did. If you inject certain moderate injuries, you can sometimes get by. But if the injury is extended to greater severity because you continue to play on it without the normal protective pain feedback, then that more severe resultant injury may not be masked enough to continue to play on it. Also, if your foot specifically is numb from the injection, you don't have proprioception sensory feedback (feeling where in space your foot may be at any point in time). That in itself can make you dysfunctional and more likely to experience further injury. Just think of how when your foot falls asleep after sitting for a long time.......you really don't know where your foot is in space and when you try to walk, you feel and look like Chester in Gunsmoke. You're lucky if you don't fall over.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I'm sure he was shot up just to make it to the point he did. If you inject certain moderate injuries, you can sometimes get by. But if the injury is extended to greater severity because you continue to play on it without the normal protective pain feedback, then that more severe resultant injury may not be masked enough to continue to play on it. Also, if your foot specifically is numb from the injection, you don't have proprioception sensory feedback (feeling where in space your foot may be at any point in time). That in itself can make you dysfunctional and more likely to experience further injury. Just think of how when your foot falls asleep after sitting for a long time.......you really don't know where your foot is in space and when you try to walk, you feel and look like Chester in Gunsmoke. You're lucky if you don't fall over.
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Thanks for the feedback Cloak, I was hoping you would chime in. I know it was just wishful thinking, but I had to ask. Your response makes complete sense. I'm still hoping that it isn't as significant as what's being reported by ESPN, only time will tell.
 
If schaub is put on IR what Veteran QB off the streets or on a teams IR would u want to pick up to back up Lienart any names floating around ????
 
thunderkyss said:
It's not that your posts are long, it's that they are in fact not cryptic & we can tell that you actually believe the crap you're writing.
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Oh. I see.

(Sigh)

So...where's a good place to eat in Houston? (Just trying to go with what DOES work well for me around here).
 
Cjeremy635 said:
Well then, get in line with Gary to ride Leinart....

I'm kidding, just a FYI. Not that there's anything wrong with y'all riding Matt. Whatever you do in the hot tub, stays in the hot tub.
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I'll do it. I'll get in the hot tub and do the deed. Reverse cowboy, missionary, 71...whatever.

If that's what it takes, then that's what it takes. I'm like Ron Burgundy right now. I'll eat that cat poop, I really will...if it gets me a steak then I'll eat the cat poop. Don't even dare think I won't.

This is our year, and we should ALL be willing to ride whatever we have to ride to get to the playoffs. If you aren't willing, then you're not a true fan. Period.
 
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