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Mario movement rumors (MERGED) Signs with Buffalo $100 million

leebigeztx said:
All of those guys on ur list have a all pro with him. Suggs has ngata, harrison/woodley, tuck/osi,allen/williams,ware/ratliff and so on. Who has played with mario? Okoye? Smith? Weaver? As I've said before and regardless of what you think,teams always turn protection to mario. That kind of guy get premium money. So wheher you think he should or shouldn't get paid by the texans, he will get 13m per.
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Mario/Antonio Smith

You are making stuff up now:

J Allen - (Williams?... you are joking, right? Kevin Williams0 that's your argument?)
D.Ware - calling Ratliff an all-pro is a little generous. He was good 3 yrs ago.
T. Hali - ?
J. Peppers - ?
Trent Cole - ?
Clay Matthews - ?
Charles Johnson - ?

Maybe the Texans will pay Mario. I don't think so, though. After all, they could've extended him this off-season to save millions of cap dollars for the Joseph/Manning deals and others. Instead, they didn't even discuss it with Mario but restructured a bunch of other deals in order to make room.

Suggesting paying a player over 10% of the entire cap after consecutive trips to the I.R. seems crazy to me and bad business. The Steelers wouldn't do that. The Patriots wouldn't do that. The Eagles wouldn't do that. Mario hasn't had a 10 sack season since 2008. Why are you so desperate to pay him? The Texans are a good defense, right now, with him on the I.R. Imagine how good they would be right now if, instead of Mario's $14 million cap number, the Texans had spent much of that $14 million to add further depth at safety, CB, LB, NT and WR. Without Mario, all those areas could've been addressed in the off-season. Even if you like Mario and want him on the team, surely you can acknowledge that spreading the money around could end up working out better. can you?
 
dalemurphy said:
Mario/Antonio Smith

You are making stuff up now:

J Allen - (Williams?... you are joking, right? Kevin Williams0 that's your argument?)
D.Ware - calling Ratliff an all-pro is a little generous. He was good 3 yrs ago.
T. Hali - ?
J. Peppers - ?
Trent Cole - ?
Clay Matthews - ?
Charles Johnson - ?

Maybe the Texans will pay Mario. I don't think so, though. After all, they could've extended him this off-season to save millions of cap dollars for the Joseph/Manning deals and others. Instead, they didn't even discuss it with Mario but restructured a bunch of other deals in order to make room.

Suggesting paying a player over 10% of the entire cap after consecutive trips to the I.R. seems crazy to me and bad business. The Steelers wouldn't do that. The Patriots wouldn't do that. The Eagles wouldn't do that. Mario hasn't had a 10 sack season since 2008. Why are you so desperate to pay him? The Texans are a good defense, right now, with him on the I.R. Imagine how good they would be right now if, instead of Mario's $14 million cap number, the Texans had spent much of that $14 million to add further depth at safety, CB, LB, NT and WR. Without Mario, all those areas could've been addressed in the off-season. Even if you like Mario and want him on the team, surely you can acknowledge that spreading the money around could end up working out better. can you?
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You pay premium players. You brought smith as if he's a probowl caliber player or something. Hali had 1 double digit sack season to his credt. Clay matthews only had jenkins and raji in front of him. You could get depth for marios money, but how many teams sacrifice an elite player at a premium position for depth? Its a lot easier finding those positions and players youstated vs finding a mario williams at his age.

By your logic the texans should've have paid johnson. He's missed more games than mario and he makes more than jennings and nelson combined.
 
welsh texan said:
Bollocks mate, He is All-Pro, he's been elected All-Pro twice, that is the definition of being All-Pro, whether you've been elected or not, he has.

I cannot understand your hatred of Mario? The only thing I can think is maybe you backed Bush or Young back in 2006 on your blog and are trying to save face by making him seem worse than he is??

Sure, he gets injured too much, and sure, he's expensive, but he showed through 4 games this season that he has it in him, with the right coaching, to become one of if not THE best pass rusher in the league, the guy was unstoppable through the first quarter of the season and thats with a position change and shortened off season programme, just imagine what will happen when he improves!!

Or you just keep on kidding yourself.
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Unstoppable??? You are the one kidding yourself. Unstoppable, what a joke. Man I wish someone would post a video of all the sacks Mario got this year. He was starting to get better at OLB for sure but to say he was unstoppable is ridiculous.

Could Mario be a dominant OLB? Sure if he can stay healthy, if he can get rid of the false step that has when standing and if he puts in the time and effort to learn some solid technique. I appeared He was starting to get rid of the false step. Still he has absolutely zero moves after six years of rushing the QB. Theres a bullrush, a loop around where he just tries to run around the tackle and that's it. Of course this could be because of the crappy coaching he has received but Kolier (sp) is still the DL coach so........ The health issue isn't as big a deal to me as others. Most players stay injured and he has shown he can play through injuries. This one just happened to require surgery. He is still plenty you g enough to come back from this with no effects.

I still want him back just not at OLB. He needs to be on the line where his athletic ability combined with his size would benefit the team more. Smith on one side, Watts in the middle and Mario on the other side. Now flank Mario and smith with Barwin and Reed and who is the OL going to key on. And don't tell me Watt can't play the nose better than Cody.
 
leebigeztx said:
You pay premium players. You brought smith as if he's a probowl caliber player or something. Hali had 1 double digit sack season to his credt. Clay matthews only had jenkins and raji in front of him. You could get depth for marios money, but how many teams sacrifice an elite player at a premium position for depth? Its a lot easier finding those positions and players youstated vs finding a mario williams at his age.

By your logic the texans should've have paid johnson. He's missed more games than mario and he makes more than jennings and nelson combined.
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by your logic, we should pay Andre Johnson $30 million per year.

AJ actually is a great player and a difference-maker. His presence changes everything on our offense. Mario simply isn't the player you think he is. Antonio Smith is a probowl caliber player. He is an elite DT or DE in a 3-4.
 
Honest question:

Do you guys think it's a coincidence that other guys haven't been as active with Mario off the field?


We have been playing good defense. But so were the browns until they ran into a real offense.

I don't wish ill will on the team just to prove a point, but if I'm looking at them objectively that has to come into consideration.
 
Rey said:
Honest question:

Do you guys think it's a coincidence that other guys haven't been as active with Mario off the field?


We have been playing good defense. But so were the browns until they ran into a real offense.

I don't wish ill will on the team just to prove a point, but if I'm looking at them objectively that has to come into consideration.
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I don't think that the effect Mario has on the defense is anywhere near the effect AJ has on the offense. I think at the end of the year we will know how much the defense misses Mario. I don't think it will be that noticeable, but I'd like to see how we do against Atlanta, Carolina and Cincy. Those are the best offenses left on our schedule, so they ought to point out our weaknesses.
 
dalemurphy said:
by your logic, we should pay Andre Johnson $30 million per year.

AJ actually is a great player and a difference-maker. His presence changes everything on our offense. Mario simply isn't the player you think he is. Antonio Smith is a probowl caliber player. He is an elite DT or DE in a 3-4.
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Antonio is nowhere close to a probowl player in any defense, sorry to tell you. I'm not saying pay andre 30 m, but how has the offense performed without out him? He's missed more games than mario and by your logic, his 13m per could be spread around. My whole point is you pay to keep your best players and sacrifice other positions or player. Peppers hasn't had a double digit sack season in a couple of years and there were question about his contract because it was in line with qb money. Carolina franchised him 2 times before he left via free agency. They paid johnson after 1 double digit sack season. Whether you or I like it or not mario will get 13m per. That's the going rate for a double digit sack guy which is what he is. Now if you think the texans will be better with that #2 wr or 2nd cb or nt or whomever else, that's your opinion. The health issue can always be dealt with contractualy by % of games played. He was on pace this year for about 15-18 sacks. Would 13m be too much for that kind of productivity?
 
Dutchrudder said:
I don't think that the effect Mario has on the defense is anywhere near the effect AJ has on the offense. I think at the end of the year we will know how much the defense misses Mario. I don't think it will be that noticeable, but I'd like to see how we do against Atlanta, Carolina and Cincy. Those are the best offenses left on our schedule, so they ought to point out our weaknesses.
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I have not seen anyone say that Mario has the exact same impact on the defense that AJ has on offense...

That said, our offense hasn't really suffered since AJ went out.
 
Rey said:
I have not seen anyone say that Mario has the exact same impact on the defense that AJ has on offense...

That said, our offense hasn't really suffered since AJ went out.
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That little hitch in their argument, they've still yet to address.
 
Rey said:
I have not seen anyone say that Mario has the exact same impact on the defense that AJ has on offense...

That said, our offense hasn't really suffered since AJ went out.
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It was just a comparison as AJ is our best offensive player and Mario has been our best defensive player. The passing game has certainly taken a giant step back since AJ has been out, the difference is that the running game is making up for the passing game's deficiencies. We won against the Browns Sunday while passing for 119 yards and 0 TDs. That's not very Texans-like, but I'm happy that Foster and Tate can pick up the slack.

In any case, it seems the pass rush is doing just fine without Mario so far. It's not like our secondary all of a sudden stepped up and is covering up our pass-rushing deficiencies. I really don't see a huge drop-off since losing Mario yet, or at least not one that warrants a 13+ million/yr investment. But like I said, we need to play some good offenses before tossing him out. I'm still against franchise tagging him though. 17.76 million gtd is waaaaaay too much for anyone that's not a top 5 QB. If they can't get a decent deal done before free agency starts, then I think we need to let him walk.
 
The passrush has been ok since Mario went down, but they have struggled to get there with 4 on a regular basis the way they did when he was on the field.
 
That said, our defense hasn't really suffered since Mario went out.

That little hitch in their argument, they've still yet to address.


It works both ways!
 
Dutchrudder said:
It was just a comparison as AJ is our best offensive player and Mario has been our best defensive player. The passing game has certainly taken a giant step back since AJ has been out, the difference is that the running game is making up for the passing game's deficiencies. We won against the Browns Sunday while passing for 119 yards and 0 TDs. That's not very Texans-like, but I'm happy that Foster and Tate can pick up the slack.

In any case, it seems the pass rush is doing just fine without Mario so far. It's not like our secondary all of a sudden stepped up and is covering up our pass-rushing deficiencies. I really don't see a huge drop-off since losing Mario yet, or at least not one that warrants a 13+ million/yr investment. But like I said, we need to play some good offenses before tossing him out. I'm still against franchise tagging him though. 17.76 million gtd is waaaaaay too much for anyone that's not a top 5 QB. If they can't get a decent deal done before free agency starts, then I think we need to let him walk.
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Offense can scheme around Andre not being there just like defense can bring more people on blitzes to scheme around Mario not being there.

Either way, neither unit has really fallen off and that was my point. What does it matter how they pick up the slack as long as the slack is picked up?
 
dalemurphy said:
This is what Fico said and I was responding to:

What he will command on the market as a free agent will dictate that. This organization would be foolish not resign Mario.
Pay Mario.
Release and restructure whomever you need to make this work.

I would not let the market set the terms. First of all, there are 32 teams and some of them aren't too bright. Some of those teams will have to spend money to reach the cap minimum number. Furthermore, some of those run a 4-3 defense and need a strong 4-3 DE to play opposite their pure, weak side speed rusher. Those teams will inflate the market for Mario.
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Dale you make the argument that Mario doesn't deserve to paid as a top tier player at his position. I stated what he will command on the open market if allowed to test it, will prove your argument wrong.

The market sets the terms whether you like it or not in free agency. We either offer him a deal he feels happy with or he test the market. He will then either get more money from someone else, more money from us, or have to settle our original offer.

There is no inflating of value, he is worth what he is worth. Maybe not to you, but to somebody else.

AJ actually is a great player and a difference-maker. His presence changes everything on our offense. Mario simply isn't the player you think he is. Antonio Smith is a probowl caliber player. He is an elite DT or DE in a 3-4.
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When you say things like this they make you look even less credible. Mario most definitely does alter offensive game planning by his presence. Teams constantly scheme for him and around him. He is/was the only player on our defense that commanded scheme attention of that nature. Thus when he was effectively taken out of the game due to opposing scheme our defense used to suck.

With an influx of talent, scheme, and most importantly confidence our defense is playing very good team defense. Combine that very good team defense with the most elite player on your defense, and you get a monster.

A.Smith is a very nice pass rushing option out of the 3-4, but he gets pushed around in the run game. In a 4-3 he was solid against the run at end, but not great rushing the passer. Consequently we pushed him inside on passing downs where he could outclass less athletic guards with his speed. He is a good versatile player for us. He is not a Pro-Bowl player nor is he elite, and I consider those two different things.

Do I think Mario is going get $100 million Albert Haynsworth dollars? No I don't, but I think he will get and deserve a contract in Demarcus Ware Peppers range. $80-90 million/ 7 years.

The reason he wasn't extended this year is because the coaches, GM, and owner wanted to see how he would take to the new system. I would say 5 sacks in 5 games with many more pressures and forcing turnovers, would prove that he was adapting rather nicely. The thing is he was only going to get better the more comfortable he got playing OLB in the system.
 
Dutchrudder said:
In any case, it seems the pass rush is doing just fine without Mario so far. It's not like our secondary all of a sudden stepped up and is covering up our pass-rushing deficiencies. I really don't see a huge drop-off since losing Mario yet, or at least not one that warrants a 13+ million/yr investment. But like I said, we need to play some good offenses before tossing him out.
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The pass rush looked good Sunday, I won't deny that. The front five were doing most of the work, which is good to see.

How many sacks did Cushing have when Mario was in the game?

He's having to step up because Mario is out. He's more involved in the pass rush than he was before. We're also getting a lot of work from the safeties..... the ILBs & the Safeties are part of the pass rush anyway, I'm not saying they weren't but they're a bigger part of it now than they were over the first 4 games.

Getting pressure with the front guys is huge... if they know you're going to have to blitz, they can take advantage of that. Brian Cushing with Mario in the game is just as likely to play 6 yards from the LOS as he is to be in the backfield on any given play. Without Mario, I guarantee you Cushing has played at the LOS a lot more.

Reed & Barwin have to step it up (and it looked like they are well on their way, just like our offense has) if we want to get back to where we were with Mario in the game.
 
Rey said:
Offense can scheme around Andre not being there just like defense can bring more people on blitzes to scheme around Mario not being there.

Either way, neither unit has really fallen off and that was my point. What does it matter how they pick up the slack as long as the slack is picked up?
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MSR

Some people are just going to see what they want to see.

We're a top ten offense without Andre..... we're a top ten defense without Mario.

We lost games with Andre, we lost games with Mario. We won games without Andre or Mario...

That's just not the way it works.

We're a better team with Andre & Mario, period.
 
i would just like to add dont let this D fool u

look at what happend when we went aganist the Saints ......
 
Norg said:
i would just like to add dont let this D fool u

look at what happend when we went aganist the Saints ......
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actually you can put the blame on the offense for both the Saints and Ravens games. Going 3 and out and putting the defense back on the field that quickly will kill any team. Just like it killed the Ravens against the Jags...

but hey if your not a believer by now, probably never will be....
 
Fico said:
Dale you make the argument that Mario doesn't deserve to paid as a top tier player at his position. I stated what he will command on the open market if allowed to test it, will prove your argument wrong.

The market sets the terms whether you like it or not in free agency. We either offer him a deal he feels happy with or he test the market. He will then either get more money from someone else, more money from us, or have to settle our original offer.

There is no inflating of value, he is worth what he is worth. Maybe not to you, but to somebody else.
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I've never argued that Mario doesn't deserve "X" number of dollars. I'm arguing that his demands will exceed what I think he is worth to our team. As I have said, I think he is more valuable as a LDE in a 4-3 Defense. I understand how the free market works. Do you understand that the NFL isn't a true free market due to the capping?
 
Norg said:
i would just like to add dont let this D fool u

look at what happend when we went aganist the Saints ......
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I seem to remember the defensive collapse @NO starting when Mario went out with a leg injury. He came back but didn't look the same. The whole defense seemed to change after he came out. More off coverage, more blitzing to try to get to Brees, etc.

People really underestimate what a blue chip passrusher brings to a defense.
 
Goatcheese said:
I seem to remember the defensive collapse @NO starting when Mario went out with a leg injury. He came back but didn't look the same. The whole defense seemed to change after he came out. More off coverage, more blitzing to try to get to Brees, etc.

People really underestimate what a blue chip passrusher brings to a defense.
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I remember this.

But, I also know this is not the same defense that played New Orleans in week 3. I'd love to play them now, with a healthy Foster & a healthy Tate, our defense would tear them up.
 
Nothing against Mario, but all I have to say at this point is: SALARY CAP.

I believe we could better spend that money on another shut-down corner and that it's true that Mario's worth is more in the position of 4-3 DE.

Yes, we lose something of our pass-rush without Mario; we also gain something in unpredictability and pass coverage. Scary to let a player of his caliber go? Yeah, it is; but it's looking like a legitimate choice.

I'd also like to know what percentage of his career Mario has played at 100 or near 100 percent, because playing at 50% 50% of the time doesn't cut it when he's getting paid to DOMINATE.
 
HJam72 said:
Nothing against Mario, but all I have to say at this point is: SALARY CAP.

I believe we could better spend that money on another shut-down corner and that it's true that Mario's worth is more in the position of 4-3 DE.

Yes, we lose something of our pass-rush without Mario; we also gain something in unpredictability and pass coverage. Scary to let a player of his caliber go? Yeah, it is; but it's looking like a legitimate choice.

I'd also like to know what percentage of his career Mario has played at 100 or near 100 percent, because playing at 50% 50% of the time doesn't cut it when he's getting paid to DOMINATE.
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There are no free agent shut down corners next off season.
 
HJam72 said:
Nothing against Mario, but all I have to say at this point is: SALARY CAP.

I believe we could better spend that money on another shut-down corner and that it's true that Mario's worth is more in the position of 4-3 DE.

Yes, we lose something of our pass-rush without Mario; we also gain something in unpredictability and pass coverage. Scary to let a player of his caliber go? Yeah, it is; but it's looking like a legitimate choice.

I'd also like to know what percentage of his career Mario has played at 100 or near 100 percent, because playing at 50% 50% of the time doesn't cut it when he's getting paid to DOMINATE.
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Solid post. I would also like to point out that in many pass rushing situations this season Mario was playing as a 4-3 DE anyways. We show multiple fronts and Wade said that in pass rushing downs we likely will switch to a 4 man front anyways. Wade was putting Mario (and all our other players) in the best positions to succeed.
 
Squarely rests with Rick Smith & Greg Olsen's ability to negotiate with Mario Williams agent within salary cap parameters. I know for a fact Wade Phillips wants him back as does Kubiak not to mention McNair. If there is some type of trade it would because there is a total breakdown between the two sides, which I just can't see happening. Therefore, Mario Williams will remain a Texan, hopefully for life :texan:
 
Sorry just can't let the previous reply be the end of this thread. Started this thread because I thought what we could get for Mario would be more beneficial than keeping Mario. I still feel this way. One of the main reasons was Mario's inability to stay healthy. I don't think that has changed. All I can do is dream about what this team would be like if instead of Mario we had a real 1b receiver and another quality NFL CB. With these two additions this team would really be a contender for the SB. I have hope that the FO may not be so Mario "crazy" because they did nothing with Mario's contract. I am worried that McNair may still be pro Mario. Only time will tell.
 
gafftop said:
Sorry just can't let the previous reply be the end of this thread. Started this thread because I thought what we could get for Mario would be more beneficial than keeping Mario. I still feel this way. One of the main reasons was Mario's inability to stay healthy. I don't think that has changed. All I can do is dream about what this team would be like if instead of Mario we had a real 1b receiver and another quality NFL CB. With these two additions this team would really be a contender for the SB. I have hope that the FO may not be so Mario "crazy" because they did nothing with Mario's contract. I am worried that McNair may still be pro Mario. Only time will tell.
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Sorry, just can't let the previous reply be the end of this thread. We've had Mario here for 6 years & have yet to put a real 1B receiver or a second quality CB on the field (actually, I believe Kj will be that corner).

So it's not really fair to make it sound as if Mario is preventing us from doing so. I'd rather cut Kevin Walter to make room for a 1b receiver, makes more sense to me.

1b receiver + #2 CB + Mario is better than 1b receiver + #2 CB + Kevin Walter.
 
thunderkyss said:
Sorry, just can't let the previous reply be the end of this thread. We've had Mario here for 6 years & have yet to put a real 1B receiver or a second quality CB on the field (actually, I believe Kj will be that corner).

So it's not really fair to make it sound as if Mario is preventing us from doing so. I'd rather cut Kevin Walter to make room for a 1b receiver, makes more sense to me.

1b receiver + #2 CB + Mario is better than 1b receiver + #2 CB + Kevin Walter.
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TK, I think you are still not looking at this the way Gafftop is presenting it. Let's say we could get NE's 1st and 2nd @ apprx # 24. We could arguably draft Courtney Upshaw OLB #24 and Hightower ILB @ # 26 (Texans). Then in 2nd we select #56 Zeitler RG and @ #58 a WR (several to choose from). Then as we did last draft we trade 3rd & 5th round back into 2nd and draft Haywood CB who if unable to beat out KJ or Harris at least allows you to cut end of bench corner. Plus you then have Mario's $15million cap space to get 2-3 vet free agents. Some of us think that would be better than Mario.
 
badboy said:
TK, I think you are still not looking at this the way Gafftop is presenting it. Let's say we could get NE's 1st and 2nd @ apprx # 24. We could arguably draft Courtney Upshaw OLB #24 and Hightower ILB @ # 26 (Texans). Then in 2nd we select #56 Zeitler RG and @ #58 a WR (several to choose from). Then as we did last draft we trade 3rd & 5th round back into 2nd and draft Haywood CB who if unable to beat out KJ or Harris at least allows you to cut end of bench corner. Plus you then have Mario's $15million cap space to get 2-3 vet free agents. Some of us think that would be better than Mario.
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Why not Trade Andre & do the same thing?

I'd like to see our pass rush against a competent offense before we start making plans to trade the only "elite" player we have on the front 5. At least wait till Brooks & JJ can prove they are elite.
 
thunderkyss said:
Why not Trade Andre & do the same thing?
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Yeah... we could follow the Astros wonderful model and trade any and everything worth any value anytime they have an off year.

hell, why wait all year; trade 'em as soon as they have an off game.

it should work for us as well as that thinking has worked for the Astros over the years, right?


I'm not mad at you TK, it's this mentality that all these possible picks and F/As we'll pick up via these proposed trades will yield better players (or even close to equivalent - and no one can know that they will) than what we already have. That's no where near a given.
 
badboy said:
TK, I think you are still not looking at this the way Gafftop is presenting it. Let's say we could get NE's 1st and 2nd @ apprx # 24. We could arguably draft Courtney Upshaw OLB #24 and Hightower ILB @ # 26 (Texans). Then in 2nd we select #56 Zeitler RG and @ #58 a WR (several to choose from). Then as we did last draft we trade 3rd & 5th round back into 2nd and draft Haywood CB who if unable to beat out KJ or Harris at least allows you to cut end of bench corner. Plus you then have Mario's $15million cap space to get 2-3 vet free agents. Some of us think that would be better than Mario.
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Why would NE make this trade?? They need to bolster their O-line, rebuild the back end of their defense (they're dead last against the pass) AND look for a decent RB. Why would Belichick give up two quality picks for what you guys are implying is damaged goods??
 
thunderkyss said:
Why not Trade Andre & do the same thing?

I'd like to see our pass rush against a competent offense before we start making plans to trade the only "elite" player we have on the front 5. At least wait till Brooks & JJ can prove they are elite.
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Fundalmental difference on how we see Mario, AJ is known prior to his injury as being one of two best WRs in football for years. Mario imo is a very good defensive end and could be an even better OLB.

Now if JJ was looking extremely good (Barwin) and our WR rookie was matching AJ's yardage (Reed), I could possibly consider a trade for AJ. Mario would bring you maybe a late 1&2.

Andre Johnson would bring you both of Clevelands first this draft and maybe more. If my scenario in the above paragraph were true and it is not, then I might make that deal. Now you or someone else will say I want to trade AJ but that is not what this posts says.

As the 2012 draft is not until April you will probably get to see this defense against a competent offense. No trade until draft day.
 
ObsiWan said:
Why would NE make this trade?? They need to bolster their O-line, rebuild the back end of their defense (they're dead last against the pass) AND look for a decent RB. Why would Belichick give up two quality picks for what you guys are implying is damaged goods??
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Mario is damaged goods now not draft day 2012.

NE desperately needs defensive help and they are still scoring pretty well. Priority needs are DE, CB and safety. Rashad I-Dowling went to IR.

PATs would keep their highest first and seconds as they have two in each round. They get Mario Williams for DE and draft CB STephon Gilmore in first. In second they select Melvin Ingram DE/OLB. As did the Texans, they can trade a 3rd & 5th to move back into second round and select Markelle Martin or another safety. Or they could select OG Nate Potter in 3rd.
 
You... you would actually trade A.J. to CLEVELAND!?! He was here during the ugly years... hasn't he suffered enough??

You heartless MONSTER!!!!
:strangle:
 
ObsiWan said:
Why would NE make this trade?? They need to bolster their O-line, rebuild the back end of their defense (they're dead last against the pass) AND look for a decent RB. Why would Belichick give up two quality picks for what you guys are implying is damaged goods??
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I think you make a point here. I don't see Belicheck doing this. He is way to smart. I just hope someone out there will.
 
ObsiWan said:
You... you would actually trade A.J. to CLEVELAND!?! He was here during the ugly years... hasn't he suffered enough??

You heartless MONSTER!!!!
:strangle:
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Should have seen the flack I got about 4 years ago when I suggested trading AJ to get him to a winning team. If we had a rookie WR matching AJ's production and another doing very well? You betcha! What would you do with say #13, #25 & #27 (Texans)? You would not need to draft WR2 so that takes care of that current need.

I'd have me some LSU's Morris Claiborne CB, Hightower for my ILB backup and Melvin Ingram OLB/DE. I'd pick Kevin Zeitler OG in 2nd and in 3rd Kendall Wright KR/WR.
:turtle:
 
Opinions are like noses, we all have one. BUT, at this time of the year, I would worry more about us just making the playoffs, and how far we will get in them. All this talk about getting rid of our best players should be reserved until after our season is over, when and IF!
 
badboy said:
Fundalmental difference on how we see Mario
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That pretty much sums it up.
badboy said:
AJ is known prior to his injury as being one of two best WRs in football for years. Mario imo is a very good defensive end and could be an even better OLB.
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You're expecting at least one first round pick. You know Mario is well respected outside of Houston.

I understand you don't see Mario the same way many of us do. But put it in perspective of something you do value, Aj. Would you do those trades if Aj were involved.

& it gets down to a bird in the hand.
 
badboy said:
Mario is damaged goods now not draft day 2012.

NE desperately needs defensive help and they are still scoring pretty well. Priority needs are DE, CB and safety. Rashad I-Dowling went to IR.

PATs would keep their highest first and seconds as they have two in each round. They get Mario Williams for DE and draft CB STephon Gilmore in first. In second they select Melvin Ingram DE/OLB. As did the Texans, they can trade a 3rd & 5th to move back into second round and select Markelle Martin or another safety. Or they could select OG Nate Potter in 3rd.
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Bb, I know you are a draft/off season guy but I don't believe it is smart to trade pro bowl caliber edge rushers for low first round draft picks unless that player has made it known he is unhappy or would welcome a trade.

Lots of first round picks go on to be ok or flat out bust. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush and that applies directly to trading Mario.

I seriously don't think that is going to happen.
 
badboy said:
Should have seen the flack I got about 4 years ago when I suggested trading AJ to get him to a winning team. If we had a rookie WR matching AJ's production and another doing very well? You betcha! What would you do with say #13, #25 & #27 (Texans)? You would not need to draft WR2 so that takes care of that current need.

I'd have me some LSU's Morris Claiborne CB, Hightower for my ILB backup and Melvin Ingram OLB/DE. I'd pick Kevin Zeitler OG in 2nd and in 3rd Kendall Wright KR/WR.
:turtle:
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First, that's two miiighty big IFs you got there. We certainly don't have two young and blossoming WRs at the moment. And to trade A.J. hoping we do is a little risky IMHO.

Secondly, what's keeping us (besides our oft-lamented past history) from grabbing the best WR on the board in round 2 or 3.

Third, some of the mocks I've glanced at - and I admit I'm far from a draftnik - have Claiborne gone in the top 10 or 11 picks. That means you'd have to pkg the picks you got for A.J. to move up to grab him. So now you've traded an acknowledged stud WR (not to mention him being the face of our franchise forever) for a rookie "maybe"; that doesn't seem wise to me.

As for what I'd do with those picks...? I'd do the Belichick thing and parley them into more picks. Even if I can't do that, my first order of biz is to upgrade the NT spot unless a stud WR like Floyd or ILB Upshaw falls in my lap. Cody is okay, but just "okay". I'd like to have better. Next, I'm taking the BPA with an eye for DeMeco's replacement ....just in case CnnnD is right and he never gets physically back to what he was coming out of Alabama.

Like I said, I'm not a draftnik but that's how I'm thinking right now...
 
thunderkyss said:
That pretty much sums it up.

{Quote:} The value of MW this yr = how much on a 1-10 scale? Last yr?

You're expecting at least one first round pick. You know Mario is well respected outside of Houston.

I understand you don't see Mario the same way many of us do. But put it in perspective of something you do value, Aj. Would you do those trades if Aj were involved.

& it gets down to a bird in the hand.
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AJ > MW, but if C-N-D's right I would trade AJ too. AJ= Damaged goods. IMHO

Do you think it's a coincedence that MW,AJ have been out for an extended period of time and the team has gone on a winning streak? Or have they truly become a team that is greater than their sum of parts?

Does the schedule have more to do with the streak, than anything BoBBY/Rick/Gary have done?

Just asing, it is probably a little bit of both?
 
Rey said:
Bb, I know you are a draft/off season guy but I don't believe it is smart to trade pro bowl caliber edge rushers for low first round draft picks unless that player has made it known he is unhappy or would welcome a trade.

Lots of first round picks go on to be ok or flat out bust. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush and that applies directly to trading Mario.

I seriously don't think that is going to happen.
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This is true.

But tell me more about what proven players could be picked up in FA with the 15-20 mil that you would save by trading MW. In addition to the draft picks you would get in said trade? Surely you could get anothr great player in FA with all of that cap space in addition to the draft picks?
 
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