Raiders reportedly trying to acquire Palmer/UPDATE/aquired

[Cerberus]

No, he's saying it was a terrible value given the low expectations of Palmer. Go get Kyle Orton from the Broncos, or VY from the Eagles, or even McNabb from the Vikings would be better. At least we know those guys are in football shape and won't cost about 6 million dollars as a rental for the rest of the season. Even Matt Leinart and Mike Kafka sound like a better options than Palmer at this point.

Edit: Congratz to the Bungles on moving up to the 31st worst managed team in the NFL! You have finally gotten the best of the previously second to last team!

But the Raiders are trying to when NOW! Orton and VY would not be the solution if you're trying to win. Palmer may also not be the solution, but at least he has a track record that proves he can win, most recently 2009 when he took the Bungles to 10-6. Besides, Palmer has the arm to make the throws the Raiders need to match the speed they have at WR. This makes defenses back-up allowing them to run more effectively. So, it was more a matter of trying to find a QB that matches the system, than who is the cheapest QB available.

 

[Cerberus]

I liked the idea of going after Palmer . . . I understand the win now mentality, but not at the cost of the future.

The future is now, the Raiders do not want to return to mediocrity and this is their chance to get back to their winning ways.

Some teams that want to win now trade future draft picks for guys that can contribute now.

Other teams wont trade a 5th rd pick for a pro bowl caliber player. Thanks for nothing (Lloyd)

The Raiders are going for it. This is a risky pickup, I comend the Raiders for taking a chance and improving their team. Unlike some other teams.

Besides they needed a QB and Palmer already knows the offense, who would they have drafted that's better than Palmer in the mid to late 20's ?

It is funny how some Texan fans are blasting the Raiders for making a ballsy move, yet are crying because the Texans front office tends to do what these fans say the Raiders should be doing, i.e., waiting until next year! Come on now guys, how well has standing pat worked for the Texans???? At least the Raiders are willing to throw the dice, and don't just keep holding them in their hands because they're afraid to crap out. No guts, no glory, just ask Kubiak and the gang.

This. I think they would regret it much more if they just rested on their laurels and let this season potentially go to waste because they lost their quarterback. I'm sure a lot of people will rip on the Raiders today for giving up so much for Palmer, but the fact is they're willing to take the risk instead of die by their own sword. Granted, there's no guarantee Palmer will be the answer to move forward this season, but there wasn't a guarantee that keeping the picks and going with what you had would enable you to get into the playoffs either.

Exactly. At least the Raiders can say they tried. Sitting back and doing nothing or picking up a scrub QB would only assure the Raiders slide back into the basement in the AFCW. It took too long to get out this last time, so with the youth and talent on their roster, they made a move to improve the team so they can go forward and try and win the AFCW and more. Who here would fault the Texans for doing the same?

It's a conditional pick right? Raiders are going all in this season. They will make the playoffs and don't have to roll a chump out as a qb now. They have 4 Lombardi trophies in 4 different decades....it may work out for them. Hell, we took 0k0ye and Dunta in the first round and neither player is here now.

Thanks for the extra Lombardi, but they only have 3 in 5 appearances. Personally, I like the move because in doing so the Raiders have traded two unknown quantities for 1 known quantity.

Hey, a couple years ago the Raiders traded their 1st for a guy named Seymour and everyone laughed. The Patriots picked OL Nate Solder with the pick the Raiders traded them. People aren't laughing any more, as the Patriots really miss Seymour on their DL, and Solder isn't exactly setting the world on fire.

Look at it this way, if things go right the Raiders traded a 1st round pick in the 20's next year, and who knows what the following year, but lets say it is a 1st rounder also. Recent history in the NFL tells us that one of those two picks will likely be a Vernon Gholston type bust, whereas the other pick will likely be fair-to-good. So, the Raiders may only really lose out on one good player for another. Also, look at the moves the Raiders have made lately, like a 4th rounders for Aaron Curry, who looked very good last week. So, instead of draft picks like JaBustus Russell and Heyward-Bey (who is coming on after 3 years), they opted for players like Richard Seymour, Aaron Curry and Carson Palmer.

 

[infantrycak]

Could work out if Palmer makes a play for comeback player of the year. His decision making has been off and he has been throwing too many INT's. VY and "he just wins," who knows what the Eagles would have given him up for. He has the arm but poor accuracy. Having said that, McFadden is a good pairing with him with the speed to stretch the field. Playing GM I would have tried real hard for VY for a 3rd. Interesting move. Price seems too high to me but might work out.

 

[Dutchrudder]

But the Raiders are trying to when NOW! Orton and VY would not be the solution if you're trying to win. Palmer may also not be the solution, but at least he has a track record that proves he can win, most recently 2009 when he took the Bungles to 10-6. Besides, Palmer has the arm to make the throws the Raiders need to match the speed they have at WR. This makes defenses back-up allowing them to run more effectively. So, it was more a matter of trying to find a QB that matches the system, than who is the cheapest QB available.

Orton would have been a great pickup if we're talking about winning now. Check out his stats vs Palmer from LAST year. Not 2007, or 09, but last year.

Orton (13 games): 58.8% comp, 3,653 yards, 20 TD, 9 INT, 1 Fum, 87.5 QB rating - 28 Years old, 2011 cap #: $8,879,000 (last year of his deal)
Palmer(16 games): 61.8% comp, 3,970 yards, 26 TD, 20 INT, 3 Fum, 82.4 QB rating - 31 years old, 2011 cap #: $16,250,000 (minus prorated games + 42 mill for the next 3 years)

Yeah, Orton for a 2nd or 3rd is clearly the better option (given the price of Palmer) as their numbers are similar enough. He's younger, in a contract year, and won't be expensive down the road.

 

[Cerberus]

Was just watching NFLN and they are saying the Raiders very well may NOW be the team to beat in the AFCW. Called Palmer a good QB, and said his skills have not diminished. They also were talking to Mark Purdy of the San Jose Mercury News, and he said most Raider fans are fine with the trade because they want to win now, said that maybe 7 fans don't like it because they are worried about 2013 (it was a joke, but makes his point).

 

[thunderkyss]

Yeah, Orton for a 2nd or 3rd is clearly the better option (given the price of Palmer) as their numbers are similar enough. He's younger, in a contract year, and won't be expensive down the road.

Do the Raiders have a 2nd or 3rd? It would have probably have had to been 2013s 1st & 2nd. Who's going to give up a 1st & 2nd for Orton?

 

[Dutchrudder]

Do the Raiders have a 2nd or 3rd? It would have probably have had to been 2013s 1st & 2nd. Who's going to give up a 1st & 2nd for Orton?

The key word was 'or'. There was speculation of trade talks and a contract extension for Orton during the preseason, but the trade didn't happen. Speculation was largely in the area of a 2nd or 3rd round pick for him.

Kyle Orton, QB, Broncos: Whether or not the Broncos can find a taker for Orton, whatever the price may be, has been a question that’s lingered since last year. Orton seemed headed to Miami during the preseason, but the two teams couldn’t reach a deal. Then there's this:

The Dolphins no longer appear to be a viable option, but with Tim Tebow apparently taking over in Denver, Orton’s days as a Bronco look numbered. Would Denver trade him within the division to Oakland? The Raiders need a quarterback now, after Jason Campbell broke his collarbone Sunday, and the Broncos reportedly wouldn’t be opposed to the move.

http://nfl.si.com/2011/10/17/nfl-trade-deadline-could-see-more-action-than-normal/

Trading Orton is a no-brainer if you're in the Bronco's organization, even if it's to a division rival. Last year of his deal, he's costing you about 500k per game to ride the bench behind Tebow, he doesn't mean anything to the organization and they are 1-4 and out of playoff contention. A 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th would be like getting free money for the Broncos as the savings alone would be worth it. My guess is that the Raiders weren't interested, but my overall point is that you don't get anything more from Palmer than you would from Orton, except the bill is 8 million and 2 arms+2 legs more expensive.

 

[thunderkyss]

The key word was 'or'. There was speculation of trade talks and a contract extension for Orton during the preseason, but the trade didn't happen. Speculation was largely in the area of a 2nd or 3rd round pick for him.

So you're saying they do have a 2nd or 3rd in the upcoming draft?

I'm asking, because everyone else is saying they don't.

 

[Dutchrudder]

So you're saying they do have a 2nd or 3rd in the upcoming draft?

I'm asking, because everyone else is saying they don't.

They have their 2013 draft picks if needed, or trade 2012 5th and 6th instead. Orton is costing the Broncos a lot of money to do essentially nothing, so a 5th today might get the deal done. Either way, this is a terrible deal for them that can only be overcome by an AFC championship appearance. Anything less will be a massive failure.

 

[Cerberus]

My guess is that the Raiders weren't interested, but my overall point is that you don't get anything more from Palmer than you would from Orton, except the bill is 8 million and 2 arms+2 legs more expensive.

Actually, I'm hearing that Palmer pared down his contract this year so the Raiders will only pay him $2.5M. Plus, he has been working out on the side with WRs and such, and is said to look good.

Personally, I think this trade keeps the Raiders relevant this year, whereas they were going to possibly tank without him.

T.J. Housh, Hines Ward, Kurt Warner, and several others are saying it will be a good deal for the Raiders; I happen to agree. It may have been costly with regard to draft picks, but the Raiders haven't ever really valued the "two birds in the bush" since they prefer the "bird in hand".

 

[Dutchrudder]

Actually, I'm hearing that Palmer pared down his contract this year so the Raiders will only pay him $2.5M. Plus, he has been
working out on the side with WRs and such, and is said to look good.

If so, that makes this deal MUCH more palatable to me. That's actually a decent cost savings over Orton, who would cost a team about 5 million more for the rest of the year.

Personally, I think this trade keeps the Raiders relevant this year, whereas they were going to possibly tank without him.

I agree with that, I just think they overpaid by a lot. The Bengals weren't going to get anything out of Palmer otherwise, but it sounds like they took the Raiders to the cleaners by getting two picks instead of just a 2012 1st.

T.J. Housh, Hines Ward, Kurt Warner, and several others are saying it will be a good deal for the Raiders; I happen to agree. It may have been costly with regard to draft picks, but the Raiders haven't ever really valued the "two birds in the bush" since they prefer the "bird in hand".

Dude, they could be passing on the next Janikowski by giving up their 2013 1st!!!!

 

[LikeMike]

I was thinking that we should offer the Raiders Leinart after the injury... great move by the Bengals - ok move by the Raiders. I think Palmer is a great QB, but they gave up a whole lot to get him - and they are nowhere near a supberbowl contender yet.

 

[Vinny]

I was thinking that we should offer the Raiders Leinart after the injury... great move by the Bengals - ok move by the Raiders. I think Palmer is a great QB, but they gave up a whole lot to get him - and they are nowhere near a supberbowl contender yet.

sure they are. Is it because you are a Texan fan and have been brainwashed to think that being good is some kind of massive multi-year building project? They just need a QB. There is just not that much difference between the top teams and the middle of the road teams...many times it's just a QB.

 

[Cerberus]

From Sirius:

Gannon: “Now, on the flipside, let’s look at it from the Oakland Raiders’ perspective. [Head coach] Hue Jackson goes back with Carson Palmer a long, long way. They were together at USC when Carson was in college, they were together in Cincinnati, they have a very close relationship. My sense is that they were probably talking along the way. I’m sure Carson’s reached out to him for advice. I’m not so sure that Hue Jackson was convinced or sold on Jason Campbell. I think that was an Al Davis deal. Hue was doing the best he could. I think when Jason went down this opened up the door [to the] the possibility that they could do something with Carson. I think they got together as a staff, as an organization and said, ‘Let’s put our best foot forward and let’s see if we can address the quarterback situation for awhile.’ If they bring in Carson Palmer that’s it for Jason Campbell. You’re looking at Carson being the starting quarterback there for the next half dozen years. He is 31 years old, some people feel like his best days are behind him, but you look at what the Raiders gave up, not much of a draft left in 2012. The first four picks are all gone; they only have a 5 and a 6 left. I know there was some talk about they explored the possibility of a potential trade with Philadelphia for Vince Young. In my opinion, this is a much better deal for the Raiders. They get Carson Palmer, he can step in there and start tomorrow, he understands the system. I think this is great news if you’re a Raiders fan.”

Seymour then joins Gannon and his co-host Adam Schein on SiriusXM NFL Radio today to discuss the Palmer trade:

Seymour: “One thing that I can take from Carson is just him being a field general out on the field and his leadership ability to get some interesting guys together and try to get them all on the same page. I really remember him being out on the field and, in a sense, directing traffic, getting guys lined up and putting them in the right position. Obviously, it’ll be a learning curve for him because he hasn’t played football in awhile but I’m excited to have a leader on that side of the ball of his caliber. Anytime you have an opportunity to acquire someone of Carson’s pedigree I don’t think it’s something that you can pass up on. When you look at it, Carson and Hue Jackson’s days, they go back to USC when Carson was the Heisman Trophy winner, the first pick in the NFL Draft and a Pro Bowl quarterback. Just with that pedigree alone I think it brings a lot to what we’re trying to do and I think it’s also a statement from the Raiders in terms of the commitment to excellence. This is just another key ingredient to what we’re trying to accomplish.”

Seymour: “We’re going to welcome Carson in with open arms and have him be a part of the commitment to excellence here. I think this move was just another example of the Raiders’ commitment to excellence.”

On Jason Campbell:

Gannon: “I know this a part of the business but you’ve got to feel bad for Jason Campbell. I know he’s worked so hard at this. I thought he showed great leadership, along with yourself in the offseason, getting the players together to work out. What are your thoughts on what he’s going through right now?”

Seymour: “It has to be tough for him. Jason is a guy I have a ton of respect for. He’s one of the first guys into the building and one of the last to leave. He’s a total team player. Whatever is best for everybody, not necessarily what’s best for Jason, is what he’s all about. You can never have enough guys like that on your team. He obviously got the receivers together to get their timing down in the offseason. So Jason’s still going to be a leader for us and you never know when your number is going to be called in this business again.”

On the cost of acquiring Palmer:

Schein: “You’re a player. You want to win a Super Bowl right now, you want to make the playoffs right now. Do you care about the future necessarily in terms of trading all these draft picks? I’m asking you these questions because it’s part of the story here when you take a look at giving up all the draft picks for next year, when you look at Carson and Pryor and Campbell, you know, you guys don’t have a draft. You came from a place (New England) where they live for the Draft and they were successful stockpiling in the NFL Draft. Does that concern you?”

Seymour: “Well, in my eyes, back when I won the Super Bowl, we won the Super Bowl in 2004. It’s 2011 now so you can have as many Draft picks as you want to and say, ‘I have a good team,’ but at the end of the day, you know, the Packers are the only team that at the end of the day say, ‘Hey, we got it done.’ Obviously, you want to make smart business decisions in everything that you do. I mean, there was a lot of ‘Should they do it or shouldn’t they do it?’ in the process of picking me so it’s always going to be both sides of the spectrum. But at the end of the day it’s what that player does when he gets there that decides: Was it a good deal or wasn’t it a good deal? So, you know, it still remains to be seen. That chapter is still open.”

Follow me on Twitter: @corkonthenfl

http://www.ibabuzz.com/oaklandraider...de/#more-17536

 

[thunderkyss]

sure they are. Is it because you are a Texan fan and have been brainwashed to think that being good is some kind of massive multi-year building project?

What have they done this year that we haven't? Why is it easier to believe this isn't just another chapter in their multi-year building project?

Is it because you are a Texans fan that you have been brainwashed to think that other teams mediocrity is better than ours?

 

[thunderkyss]

From Sirius:

“Now, on the flipside, let’s look at it from the Oakland Raiders’ perspective. [Head coach] Hue Jackson goes back with Carson Palmer a long, long way. They were together at USC when Carson was in college, they were together in Cincinnati, they have a very close relationship. My sense is that they were probably talking along the way. I’m sure Carson’s reached out to him for advice.

Wouldn't this be considered tampering? If the Bengals (Mike Brown) wanted to push the issue, they could really screw the Raiders over on this one.

 

[Vinny]

What have they done this year that we haven't? Why is it easier to believe this isn't just another chapter in their multi-year building project?

Is it because you are a Texans fan that you have been brainwashed to think that other teams mediocrity is better than ours?

It doesn't take that friggin' long to ramp it up if you are good at building a team. They've won their division three times the last ten years... and we have zero division titles in the last decade. The Raiders were in the Super Bowl 5 times with 4 different QB's. LaMonica, Stabler, Plunkett (twice) and Gannon. Sure, they have been down, but they've built good teams that have went to the Super Bowl with different players in just about every decade.

 

[thunderkyss]

It doesn't take that friggin' long to ramp it up if you are good at building a team. They've won their division three times the last ten years... and we have zero division titles in the last decade. The Raiders were in the Super Bowl 5 times with 4 different QB's. LaMonica, Stabler, Plunkett (twice) and Gannon. Sure, they have been down, but they've built good teams that have went to the Super Bowl with different players in just about every decade.

This year. What has that "good" team done this year that makes them a good team this year & us chopped liver?

 

[Cerberus]

This year. What has that "good" team done this year that makes them a good team this year & us chopped liver?

They've collected young players the past few years while struggling, and have put together a solid team in all three phases of the game. Face it, when it came down to it what beat the Texans was the Raiders' ST, i.e., Janokowski, the blocked punt, and field position from Lechler. Then you take the daring moves that Davis and now Jackson get roasted for, like drafting DHB or trading for Curry and Palmer, and you see a team that works at putting the pieces together. The Texans on the other hand tend to stay pat with what they have, in hopes it will somehow all work out one day. So, make fun of the Raiders' moves if you will, but at least when they see a weakness/problem they try and address it even if others think they paid too high a price; like Aaron Curry for a 4th rounder!

 

[Dutchrudder]

Who made fun of the Aaron Curry trade? I would have liked the Texans to get him for a 4th.

 

[thunderkyss]

They've collected young players the past few years while struggling, and have put together a solid team in all three phases of the game. Face it, when it came down to it what beat the Texans was the Raiders' ST, i.e., Janokowski, the blocked punt, and field position from Lechler. Then you take the daring moves that Davis and now Jackson get roasted for, like drafting DHB or trading for Curry and Palmer, and you see a team that works at putting the pieces together. The Texans on the other hand tend to stay pat with what they have, in hopes it will somehow all work out one day. So, make fun of the Raiders' moves if you will, but at least when they see a weakness/problem they try and address it even if others think they paid too high a price; like Aaron Curry for a 4th rounder!

The Raiders haven't done ****....... yet. If they're going to do something, they're going to do something & we can talk about that, then.

The question, is what have they done this year?

Beat the Broncos? woohoo... we beat the coltless Mannings.
Beat the Jets? woohoo... we beat the Steelers
Beat the Browns? woohoo... we beat the Dolphins.
Beat the Texans? woohoo... we beat them three times this year.

Got smoked by the Pats? ... we got beat by the Ravens
Lost a close one to Buffalo?... we lost a close one to the Raiders.

What the heck is so different here that "Oakland" is a good team & the "Texans" are not?

 

[Kaiser Toro]

Bengals got a great deal. Palmer is an average QB on a good day. Karma and P-Buch are a beeotch.

 

[The Cush]

What the heck is so different here that "Oakland" is a good team & the "Texans" are not?

The difference is that this fan base is full of the knee jerk extremists. We lose 1 game, we are instantly the worst team in the history of the NFL that will never amount to anything. Lose 2 games in a row, and this team needs to be moved. If we run off and win the next 3, this town will be planning out the path the parade will take downtown. Then we lose another and we're back to being worse than the Dolphins. You just happen to be having this argument coming off a couple of fresh losses, 1 to a solid Raiders team and another to a Super Bowl contender so we are currently in the "worst team ever" phase.

 

[Vinny]

The difference is that this fan base is full of the knee jerk extremists. We lose 1 game, we are instantly the worst team in the history of the NFL that will never amount to anything. Lose 2 games in a row, and this team needs to be moved. If we run off and win the next 3, this town will be planning out the path the parade will take downtown. Then we lose another and we're back to being worse than the Dolphins. You just happen to be having this argument coming off a couple of fresh losses, 1 to a solid Raiders team and another to a Super Bowl contender so we are currently in the "worst team ever" phase.

You do know that the Texans are 1-8 in their last 9 road games? No? Does that sound like a stat that supports happy fans? Does that sound like a playoff team type record?

 

[The Cush]

You do know that the Texans are 1-8 in their last 9 road games? No? Does that sound like a stat that supports happy fans? Does that sound like a playoff team type record?

And 6 of those games are from last year. I don't view last year's team on the same level as this year's. We have more talent and a better defensive scheme and coaching staff. You can keep that mindset that this is last year all you want, I won't. It's like when a TV announcer brings up the stat, "well Team X is 35-65 all time on the road against Team Y history says it doesn't look good for them!" How is that relevant? The teams aren't the same

 

[Vinny]

And 6 of those games are from last year. I don't view last year's team on the same level as this year's. We have more talent and a better defensive scheme and coaching staff. You can keep that mindset that this is last year all you want, I won't. It's like when a TV announcer brings up the stat, "well Team X is 35-65 all time on the road against Team Y history says it doesn't look good for them!" How is that relevant? The teams aren't the same

it ain't a minset, it's a fact. My opinion of the team is derived from what the team shows me. If your team loses its last 7 or 8 road games it has friggin' problems...pretty much period. Hopefully they can turn that around, but that's the same ol' song and dance we have heard for 6 years now. You go right ahead and pound your chest about how much potential the Texans have but potential means you haven't done it yet. I see it too, but I'm sick of talking about how they will be good tomorrow. They need to start being good NOW to get any real respect. Till then it's gonna be a lot of cynical fans. Sniffing flowers and chasing rainbows isn't the way I like to be a fan. I like good football, and I'll comment on bad football as long as there is more bad football than good football. Win some freaking road games vs good teams and then you will get fans who aren't so cynical.

 

[Lucky]

Wouldn't this be considered tampering? If the Bengals (Mike Brown) wanted to push the issue, they could really screw the Raiders over on this one.

Screw the Raiders over more than coughing up (2) 1st round picks? Maybe you're on to something. Maybe the league found out about the tampering, and forced the Raiders to "trade" the picks for Palmer.

Damn, I think I was channeling GP with all of that speculation.

 

[The Cush]

it ain't a minset, it's a fact. My opinion of the team is derived from what the team shows me. If your team loses its last 7 or 8 road games it has friggin' problems...pretty much period. Hopefully they can turn that around, but that's the same ol' song and dance we have heard for 6 years now. You go right ahead and pound your chest about how much potential the Texans have but potential means you haven't done it yet.

Again, you bring up a stat from last year trying to pertain it to this year. Why? Is that Jason Allen starting opposite Kareem Jackson still? Zac Diles, Bernard Pollard, Eugene Wilson, are you guys still out there? Amobi Okoye, you look a lot like JJ Watt! That's fine if you would have said we are 1-2 this year on the road, that would be more relevant. I'm not pounding my chest at potential, I'm actually looking at the CURRENT product on the field. We are 3-3 but, how many quarters has this team trailed? Like a total of 7 maybe out of the 24? Who have we lost to? 2 Super Bowl contenders on the road and a solid Raiders team. Did we get our asses kicked in that game? It would seem like it by how you are acting. I would be more understanding of your side if they were losses to the Browns and the Vikings on the road.

 

[Vinny]

Again, you bring up a stat from last year trying to pertain it to this year. Why? Is that Jason Allen starting opposite Kareem Jackson still? Zac Diles, Bernard Pollard, Eugene Wilson, are you guys still out there? Amobi Okoye, you look a lot like JJ Watt! That's fine if you would have said we are 1-2 this year on the road, that would be more relevant. I'm not pounding my chest at potential, I'm actually looking at the CURRENT product on the field. We are 3-3 but, how many quarters has this team trailed? Like a total of 7 maybe out of the 24? Who have we lost to? 2 Super Bowl contenders on the road and a solid Raiders team. Did we get our asses kicked in that game? It would seem like it by how you are acting. I would be more understanding of your side if they were losses to the Browns and the Vikings on the road.

ok, have it your way. two road games this year. two losses. Viola - Same crap, different year. You gotta be able to beat good teams to be considered a good team. Is that so hard to understand?

 

[bo orlando]

it ain't a minset, it's a fact. My opinion of the team is derived from what the team shows me. If your team loses its last 7 or 8 road games it has friggin' problems...pretty much period. Hopefully they can turn that around, but that's the same ol' song and dance we have heard for 6 years now. You go right ahead and pound your chest about how much potential the Texans have but potential means you haven't done it yet. I see it too, but I'm sick of talking about how they will be good tomorrow. They need to start being good NOW to get any real respect. Till then it's gonna be a lot of cynical fans. Sniffing flowers and chasing rainbows isn't the way I like to be a fan. I like good football, and I'll comment on bad football as long as there is more bad football than good football. Win some freaking road games vs good teams and then you will get fans who aren't so cynical.

I agree completely. Say the Texans win the division this year-- how far are they going to get in the playoffs with Jason Allen and Kareem Jackson as CB2 & 3? How can you not upgrade such a key position in a passing league, especially when it doesn't take much to upgrade? Who knows what happens next year or the year after? Andre Johnson could suddenly lose a step, or Schaub gets some major injury that puts him out for the year. The point is that they are good now, and the team has a uniquely easy path to a home playoff game right now.

 

[The Cush]

ok, have it your way. two road games this year. two losses. Viola - Same crap, different year. You gotta be able to beat good teams to be considered a good team. Is that so hard to understand?

It's actually 3 road games and 2 losses! But going back to your previous post that you added on to earlier. This is the NOW. I'm not sniffing flowers, I'm just not being jaded like you and acting like the season is over after week 6. (Yes, I remember you were the one that made a thread about if the playoffs started after Week 6...who does that?) If they end up not winning another road game this year, then I'm all aboard for shredding this team with criticism. They could win out, they could lose out, they could play .500 ball, they could play .800 ball. I want to see the ENTIRE season play out before I write them off as being good or bad

 

[Vinny]

It's actually 3 road games and 2 losses! But going back to your previous post that you added on to earlier. This is the NOW. I'm not sniffing flowers, I'm just not being jaded like you and acting like the season is over after week 6. (Yes, I remember you were the one that made a thread about if the playoffs started after Week 6...who does that?) If they end up not winning another road game this year, then I'm all aboard for shredding this team with criticism. They could win out, they could lose out, they could play .500 ball, they could play .800 ball. I want to see the ENTIRE season play out before I write them off as not being good or bad

It's not an act and I'm not jaded. I comment on what I see. If I see something different, I say something different. they could do this, they could do that...eh, show me something on Sunday and beat the Titans.


Teams that beat good teams get one of these

teams that play hard, look good and lose get these

 

[The Cush]

It's not an act and I'm not jaded. I comment on what I see. If I see something different, I say something different. they could do this, they could do that...eh, show me something on Sunday and beat the Titans.

If they win..then what? Are you back on board to being a believer? You see what I mean when I said this fan base is full of the knee jerk extremist and that we are currently in the "this is a horrible team" phase

 

[Vinny]

If they win..then what? Are you back on board to being a believer? You see what I mean when I said this fan base is full of the knee jerk extremist and that we are currently in the "this is a horrible team" phase

dude, this ain't a religion. I just comment on what I see. You sure are judgmental when it comes to others opinions. Go take a nap or something. This old man is going to bed.

 

[The Cush]

dude, this ain't a religion. I just comment on what I see. You sure are judgmental when it comes to others opinions. Go take a nap or something. This old man is going to bed.

Hey, I just comment on what I see.

 

[Vinny]

Hey, I just comment on what I see.

Im critical of the Texans and you are being critical of me. Hey, whatever floats your boat. I don't think you are wrong to buy into your team...I've watched a ton of NFL action since I first started going to games about 40 years ago. I've seen a lot of football in my day and I'm just not gonna confuse hamburger patties with steak.

take it easy, Im out

 

[The Cush]

Im critical of the Texans and you are being critical of me. Hey, whatever floats your boat. I don't think you are wrong to buy into your team...I've watched a ton of NFL action since I first started going to games about 40 years ago. I've seen a lot of football in my day and I'm just not gonna confuse hamburger patties with steak.

take it easy, Im out

Haha, well I'm sorry for that. Being a fan of a team like the Texans keeps me on edge

 

[thunderkyss]

ok, have it your way. two road games this year. two losses. Viola - Same crap, different year. You gotta be able to beat good teams to be considered a good team. Is that so hard to understand?

What I'm finding so hard to understand, is that the Raiders have yet to beat a good team on the road. Unless you're saying we're a good team, but then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I'm not saying we're good. I'm saying the Raiders aren't either.

 

[thunderkyss]

I agree completely. Say the Texans win the division this year-- how far are they going to get in the playoffs with Jason Allen and Kareem Jackson as CB2 & 3?

Watch the game again.. fast forward to all the defensive plays.. & focus on Kareem. He had a solid game. By week 11, he'll be ready for the play-offs with this defense.

 

[thunderkyss]

Double post

 

[Cerberus]

The Raiders haven't done ****....... yet. If they're going to do something, they're going to do something & we can talk about that, then.

The question, is what have they done this year?

Beat the Broncos? woohoo... we beat the coltless Mannings.
Beat the Jets? woohoo... we beat the Steelers
Beat the Browns? woohoo... we beat the Dolphins.
Beat the Texans? woohoo... we beat them three times this year.

Got smoked by the Pats? ... we got beat by the Ravens
Lost a close one to Buffalo?... we lost a close one to the Raiders.

What the heck is so different here that "Oakland" is a good team & the "Texans" are not?

First of all, I didn't say that Oakland was a good team and the Texans aren't, because I happen to think the Texans are good also.

Now for the "what have they done" part of your question.

The Raiders lost Jason Campbell, what did they do?
They went out and got Carson Palmer.

The Texans lost Andre Johnson, what did they do?
At first, nothing, then they got a washed up Derrick Mason and didn't pursue Brandon Lloyd.

The Raiders saw that LB Quentin Groves was playing poorly, so what did they do?
The Raiders went out and traded for Aaron Curry.

The Texans lost Mario Williams, what did they do?
So far they've stood pat with what they have.

The Raiders saw a weakness a Safety, so what did they do?
They picked up Chinedum Ndukwe.

The Texans are weak at CB, what did they do?
So far they've stood pat with what they have.

A couple years ago the Raiders saw a need at the DL, so what did they do?
They picked up John Henderson and traded for Richard Seymour (a trade they got roasted for much like the Palmer trade yesterday).

Anyway, my point is the Raiders aren't afraid to mix it up and go for the high-risk/high-reward player if they think that player can help them get to the next level. No, it doesn't always work out for them, i.e., Randy Moss, but at least they reach for the brass ring every once in a while.

 

[thunderkyss]

First of all, I didn't say that Oakland was a good team and the Texans aren't, because I happen to think the Texans are good also.

My bad, got you mixed up with some of our other fans.

Now for the "what have they done" part of your question.

The Raiders lost Jason Campbell, what did they do?
They went out and got Carson Palmer.

The Texans lost Andre Johnson, what did they do?
At first, nothing, then they got a washed up Derrick Mason and didn't pursue Brandon Lloyd.

Two different situations. You lost Campbell for the year, Andre is only supposed to be out for a few games. Maybe they saw something in Brandon Lloyd they didn't like? Mason was brought in to replace David Anderson.

The Raiders saw that LB Quentin Groves was playing poorly, so what did they do?
The Raiders went out and traded for Aaron Curry.

The Texans lost Mario Williams, what did they do?
So far they've stood pat with what they have.

We've already got a 2nd round pick we drafted to take that spot. Not exactly staying pat, but staying the course. That is the position Reed was brought in to play.

The Raiders saw a weakness a Safety, so what did they do?
They picked up Chinedum Ndukwe.

The Texans are weak at CB, what did they do?
So far they've stood pat with what they have.

Again, staying the course. Kj is plan A & he's playing well & getting better. He wasn't benched like some want to believe, he was nursing a knee injury the first week. The second week he came dressed as an emergency reserve as Sherrick McMannis was also hurt.

Plan B is Brandon Harris & from what little bit I saw of him, he looks pretty good.

A couple years ago the Raiders saw a need at the DL, so what did they do?
They picked up John Henderson and traded for Richard Seymour (a trade they got roasted for much like the Palmer trade yesterday).

& we signed Suan Cody & drafted Earl Mitchell... you win this one.

 

[b0ng]

sure they are. Is it because you are a Texan fan and have been brainwashed to think that being good is some kind of massive multi-year building project? They just need a QB. There is just not that much difference between the top teams and the middle of the road teams...many times it's just a QB.

The Raiders are currently sitting with a terribly ranked defense and most of their corners not named Stanford Routt have been either injured, or not good at all.

QB is not the only hole on that roster, it's just the only one getting filled this season and next offseason.

EDIT: And if the Raiders just have to have a QB out of the Bay Area why not try to draft Matt Barkley the next draft? Win Now is what got the Raiders into everything that happened after the '02 SB, and it doesn't seem to be slowing down any time soon.

Also, Hue Jackson apparently has full control over personnel.

EDIT2: And for the goofy raider fans saying "Oh we'd just blow the first rounder anyway lol jamarcus" isn't that something that should get front office personnel canned? Why would you trust these people to make even bigger decisions than who to pick in the first round of the draft, if they can't even do that properly?

 

[b0ng]

Actually, I'm hearing that Palmer pared down his contract this year so the Raiders will only pay him $2.5M. Plus, he has been working out on the side with WRs and such, and is said to look good.

Personally, I think this trade keeps the Raiders relevant this year, whereas they were going to possibly tank without him.

The Raiders signed him to a 4 year $43 million dollar contract. That is silly money for a guy who has had probably the two worst injuries a QB could have (Elbow tendons, ACL tears) and has not even been an average or above average QB in more than a few years.

Oh yeah, and they basically mortgaged their future for the guy. Mortgaged their future when the QB class for this upcoming season looks absolutely spectacular.

 

[Vinny]

The Raiders signed him to a 4 year $43 million dollar contract. That is silly money for a guy who has had probably the two worst injuries a QB could have (Elbow tendons, ACL tears) and has not even been an average or above average QB in more than a few years.

Oh yeah, and they basically mortgaged their future for the guy. Mortgaged their future when the QB class for this upcoming season looks absolutely spectacular.

they weren't taking a qb since they spent a pick next year on a qb already. I look at Terrelle Pryor as their future.

 

[b0ng]

they weren't taking a qb since they spent a pick next year on a qb already. I look at Terrelle Pryor as their future.

Apparently they were taking a QB since they decided Carson Palmer for 2 high draft picks was the way to go after trading for Campbell and picking up Pryor in the supp draft.

The entire thing reeks of mismanagement and desperation.

EDIT: Andrew Luck, Matt Barkley, and Landry Jones. Most likely one of those 3 would've been available no matter where the Raiders were picking in the first.

 

[Vinny]

Apparently they were taking a QB since they decided Carson Palmer for 2 high draft picks was the way to go after trading for Campbell and picking up Pryor in the supp draft.

The entire thing reeks of mismanagement and desperation.

EDIT: Andrew Luck, Matt Barkley, and Landry Jones. Most likely one of those 3 would've been available no matter where the Raiders were picking in the first.

when the Oilers drafted Steve McNair they went out and got Chris Chandler. Same type situation. Anyway, the Raiders have won in the past and I bet they win again before this sad sack franchise. I hate to say that but I dont have much confidence in the Texans ability to build a winning team.

 

[b0ng]

when the Oilers drafted Steve McNair they went out and got Chris Chandler. Same type situation. Anyway, the Raiders have won in the past and I bet they win again before this sad sack franchise. I hate to say that but I dont have much confidence in the Texans ability to build a winning team.

Did they trade a 1st and a second which could turn into a first the year after for Chris Chandler? Everything I remember about that points me in the direction of "No, no they didn't" so I'm not sure why you bring it up since the situations aren't really congruent. Are you saying Terrelle Pryor is the next Steve McNair I don't get it.

The Raiders making silly moves doesn't really effect my opinion on the Texans though, so I guess. . . okay?

 

[Vinny]

Did they trade a 1st and a second which could turn into a first the year after for Chris Chandler? Everything I remember about that points me in the direction of "No, no they didn't" so I'm not sure why you bring it up since the situations aren't really congruent. Are you saying Terrelle Pryor is the next Steve McNair I don't get it.

The Raiders making silly moves doesn't really effect my opinion on the Texans though, so I guess. . . okay?

I'm just saying teams have taken young QB's and brought in vets to man the ship till they are ready. Texan fans making fun of the Raiders is kind of funny....this last decade the Raiders have 3 Div banners. Texans? 0 The Raiders just beat us to boot.

I'm not big on being a homer and I understand your groupthink on the Raiders. Its the easy way to fall in line with the common opinion.

 

[Blake]

I'm just saying teams have taken young QB's and brought in vets to man the ship till they are ready. Texan fans making fun of the Raiders is kind of funny....this last decade the Raiders have 3 Div banners. Texans? 0 The Raiders just beat us to boot.

I'm not big on being a homer and I understand your groupthink on the Raiders. Its the easy way to fall in line with the common opinion.

Raiders didnt have to beat a Manning led Colts team for the past decade. Not refuting the other points in your post.