Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
Kareem Jackson's plight.
- Thread starter 76Texan
- Start date
76 It looks to me that Allen expected more help as the reciever crossed the middle from the SS or possibly a LB.
When that didnt happen the FS moved up and you are right that Allen didnt get deep early enough. Should have done that as soon as the FS moved up instead he continued laterally.
A mistake by one player is again compounded by the mistakes of another ..... Its a snowball effect. **** rolls downhill.
When that didnt happen the FS moved up and you are right that Allen didnt get deep early enough. Should have done that as soon as the FS moved up instead he continued laterally.
A mistake by one player is again compounded by the mistakes of another ..... Its a snowball effect. **** rolls downhill.
Yessir, that is pretty much how I saw it as well.
The only thing I would disagree with slightly is that with 3 guys on the back end, you should be able to defend this 2-man route.
Refer to the earlier post about cover 3 by Matt Bowen (this guy has some good reads):
" The corners must maintain outside leverage and use the free safety to their advantage. If they get beat to their outside, they have no help to rely on. That is why they use zone technique (back to the sideline) and widen with any vertical release to protect the sideline.
The free safety is the top of the defense. He must honor his responsibilities and not chase any intermediate routes. Offenses will run a deep dig (15-yard square in) to entice the free safety to jump the route while running a post from the opposite side of the field, leaving the corner naked and playing from outside in with zero help. A classic Cover 3-beater."
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Inside-the-playbook-Cover-3.html
Right - The SS or LB didnt get middle coverage - the FS bit on the middle route , the other corner is left naked and Allen didnt recover in time to help with the deep ball ..... fail all around.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
In a 2 man route and the suppposed cover 3, the safety and mike were suppose to "rob" route. That display had basically zero to do with allen. The deep third safety should never let anyone get deeper than him. If that was a cover 3, divide the backend into 1/3. Davis and allen are suppose to carry their guys . Looking at that again, it was more of a combo coverage off a press.
I thought it was more of a pattern matching zone .... even if it was played horribly by the whole secondary and the ILB who had the short middle zone.
I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean.
Basically, you're saying that the deep safety should always stay back, right?
(Just as the quote from an article I had given.)
That would be just the same as what the Chargers did when they gave up 17 yards to JJ on on play and 33 yards to James Casey on another play.
And that was what I contended if the Defens stayed in Cover 3...
However, Wilson, for example, in the same game (Chargers) stepped down on the crossing route just as the deep safety did in the Packers game.
(There were other examples in this thread, maybe you didn't have time to read through the whole thing? It's the main thing I wanted to discuss in this thread.)
That's how the defense would play it if they have a "drop-kick" call on.
When the safety step down on the crosser, the off-side CB takes the post.
(In that case, it has everything to do with Allen.)
The common theme in these 2-man pattern is that the play-side CB played it the same way (pretty much.)
They played to guard the sideline (the corner route, the back shoulder fade, the come-backer) ...
... every single one of them, from Aso to Rashean Mathis (Jags) to Hayden (Colts), to Newman (Cowboys), to V. Davis (Dolphins) to Jackson (Texans), among the plays I can remember.
And the result was a constant big play for the offense when the safety step down on the crossing route and the off-side CB doesn't take over the post.
When the off-side CB takes over the post, the situation reverses itself.
Jenkins (Cowboys), for example, had an INT.
For the Texans, Quin almost had a TD when he took over the post against Collins (Titans.)
Unfortunately, Nolan also read the play well and came off the crossing route trying to get back to help.
It was a good effort play by Nolan; however, he got into Quin's way and deflected the ball that the receiver ended up with.
It was just the Texans' luck.
I'll try to show that play soon!
They played to guard the sideline (the corner route, the back shoulder fade, the come-backer) ...
... every single one of them, from Aso to Rashean Mathis (Jags) to Hayden (Colts), to Newman (Cowboys), to V. Davis (Dolphins) to Jackson (Texans), among the plays I can remember.
And the result was a constant big play for the offense when the safety step down on the crossing route and the off-side CB doesn't take over the post.
When the off-side CB takes over the post, the situation reverses itself.
Jenkins (Cowboys), for example, had an INT.
For the Texans, Quin almost had a TD when he took over the post against Collins (Titans.)
Unfortunately, Nolan also read the play well and came off the crossing route trying to get back to help.
It was a good effort play by Nolan; however, he got into Quin's way and deflected the ball that the receiver ended up with.
It was just the Texans' luck.
I'll try to show that play soon!
Here's the play against Collins that I had promised for a while.
Side view:
http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Week%2015%20Titans/59yd%20pass%20to%20Britt%20%20Quin%20near%20INT/Side%20view/
Front view:
http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Week%2015%20Titans/59yd%20pass%20to%20Britt%20%20Quin%20near%20INT/Front%20view/
Side view:
http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Week%2015%20Titans/59yd%20pass%20to%20Britt%20%20Quin%20near%20INT/Side%20view/
Front view:
http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Week%2015%20Titans/59yd%20pass%20to%20Britt%20%20Quin%20near%20INT/Front%20view/
Alright, now that I have had time to watch all the early actions of the Cardinals (Patrick Peterson - the first CB drafted this year, and a highly-touted prospect as the second coming of Deion Sanders by many of the "pros" as well as many of the TT board members), let me recap what I observed.
So far, Peterson had given up 3 passing TDs, including Cam Newton's first as a pro.
He also gave up two rushing TDs (directly).
Peterson was thrown into the fire similarly as Kareem Jackson; however, the safeties have yet to fail him (Peterson). Everything he got, it's on him.
He had one INT at the end of the first half against the Seahawks.
Before that, his QB (Kolb) had thrown an INT with no time left on the clock.
On the run back, the Cards committed a penalty, however.
The ref awarded the Seahawks with one play near midfield.
QB Tavaris Jackson was chased around as he heaved a hail-mary into a crowd of three defenders; one of them tipped the ball away, right toward the fourth defender (Peterson, who had nobody on him.)
Peterson registered 3 PDs.
One of them was in the Seahawks game (I believe they counted the INT as a PD because I don't see anything else in the gamebook that corresponds with a seperate play.)
I didn't see him defend any pass when I watched the game.
The other two were against the Giants.
On one of them, the pass was thrown behind the receiver on a slant and Peterson broke it off (he was trailing the play as most CBs defending the slant.) A good pass would haven been a completion.
It was still a nice play by Peterson though.
The other one was on a fade route in which Peterson overplayed the fade and made a good break up.
However, when he tried to overplayed the fade again later on, the receiver continued on the go route and beat him for a TD.
(A setup).
Peterson registered 22 solos.
Most of these tackles were after a catch.
The 3 TDs he gave up was against the Panthers, the Skins, and the Giants.
Against the Vikings, McNabb only attempted 21 passes, one of them resulted in a 36yd PI on Peterson.
On the same drive, the other Peterson (Adrian) ran over Patrick on a 14yd TD run.
On another TD run to the edge, AP juked PP out of his sock and left him in the dirt.
In fact, the other CB, AJ Jefferson, an UDFA in 2010, played much better for the Cards than Patrick Peterson.
He had 8 PDs and was good in run support.
Quite a few of his 23 solos were in this mode.
Out of college, one of my concern about him is the angle he took on some tackles. That seems to be corrected.
This guy, AJ Jefferson, was the dark horse that I mentioned before the 2010draft.
I gave him a 5th round grade (only because he played for a smaller school - Fresno St.) and thought the Texans should draft him.
(He was good at the combine on a few drills, I can't remember which ones though.)
He played as a reserve in 2 games last year, but earned the starting nod this year.
...
I wonder why we didn't hear the "pros" singing about Patrick Peterson!?!
Now, I'm not saying he will be a bust, because he's not.
I do think, however, that touting him as the next Deion Sanders is probably over the top.
So far, Peterson had given up 3 passing TDs, including Cam Newton's first as a pro.
He also gave up two rushing TDs (directly).
Peterson was thrown into the fire similarly as Kareem Jackson; however, the safeties have yet to fail him (Peterson). Everything he got, it's on him.
He had one INT at the end of the first half against the Seahawks.
Before that, his QB (Kolb) had thrown an INT with no time left on the clock.
On the run back, the Cards committed a penalty, however.
The ref awarded the Seahawks with one play near midfield.
QB Tavaris Jackson was chased around as he heaved a hail-mary into a crowd of three defenders; one of them tipped the ball away, right toward the fourth defender (Peterson, who had nobody on him.)
Peterson registered 3 PDs.
One of them was in the Seahawks game (I believe they counted the INT as a PD because I don't see anything else in the gamebook that corresponds with a seperate play.)
I didn't see him defend any pass when I watched the game.
The other two were against the Giants.
On one of them, the pass was thrown behind the receiver on a slant and Peterson broke it off (he was trailing the play as most CBs defending the slant.) A good pass would haven been a completion.
It was still a nice play by Peterson though.
The other one was on a fade route in which Peterson overplayed the fade and made a good break up.
However, when he tried to overplayed the fade again later on, the receiver continued on the go route and beat him for a TD.
(A setup).
Peterson registered 22 solos.
Most of these tackles were after a catch.
The 3 TDs he gave up was against the Panthers, the Skins, and the Giants.
Against the Vikings, McNabb only attempted 21 passes, one of them resulted in a 36yd PI on Peterson.
On the same drive, the other Peterson (Adrian) ran over Patrick on a 14yd TD run.
On another TD run to the edge, AP juked PP out of his sock and left him in the dirt.
In fact, the other CB, AJ Jefferson, an UDFA in 2010, played much better for the Cards than Patrick Peterson.
He had 8 PDs and was good in run support.
Quite a few of his 23 solos were in this mode.
Out of college, one of my concern about him is the angle he took on some tackles. That seems to be corrected.
This guy, AJ Jefferson, was the dark horse that I mentioned before the 2010draft.
I gave him a 5th round grade (only because he played for a smaller school - Fresno St.) and thought the Texans should draft him.
(He was good at the combine on a few drills, I can't remember which ones though.)
He played as a reserve in 2 games last year, but earned the starting nod this year.
...
I wonder why we didn't hear the "pros" singing about Patrick Peterson!?!
Now, I'm not saying he will be a bust, because he's not.
I do think, however, that touting him as the next Deion Sanders is probably over the top.
The next one is McCourty, whom a few of the TT board members brought up (in hindsight) when they "declared" that the Texans picked the wrong guy.
I had talked of McCourty and his limited role in the Pats D last year as a cover 2 corner.
Due to his limited role, and the protection they gave him, McCourty "looked" good in quite a few instances (which prompted the "love").
This year, they don't babysitting him hardly anymore, and he struggled mightily.
So far, at least 4 TD passes can be attributed directly to McCourty this year.
I'm not quite sure about the coverage on another one so I won't mention it.
He has 3 PDS and 29 solos (ie., got thrown on a lot.)
Here's something about him from nfl.com
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d823187f8/article/mccourty-asomugha-struggle-to-adjust-to-new-responsibilities
"Scouts look at Nnamdi Asomugha's deployment in Philly, and scratch their heads. Up I-95, changes in the assignments of another corner, second-year Patriot Devin McCourty, have led to serious growing pains.
As a result, both players have taken steps back -- Asomugha because he's playing more zone and more often off receivers, and McCourty because Bill Belichick and Co. are varying his responsibilities and leaning harder on him with less help to his side."
I had talked of McCourty and his limited role in the Pats D last year as a cover 2 corner.
Due to his limited role, and the protection they gave him, McCourty "looked" good in quite a few instances (which prompted the "love").
This year, they don't babysitting him hardly anymore, and he struggled mightily.
So far, at least 4 TD passes can be attributed directly to McCourty this year.
I'm not quite sure about the coverage on another one so I won't mention it.
He has 3 PDS and 29 solos (ie., got thrown on a lot.)
Here's something about him from nfl.com
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d823187f8/article/mccourty-asomugha-struggle-to-adjust-to-new-responsibilities
"Scouts look at Nnamdi Asomugha's deployment in Philly, and scratch their heads. Up I-95, changes in the assignments of another corner, second-year Patriot Devin McCourty, have led to serious growing pains.
As a result, both players have taken steps back -- Asomugha because he's playing more zone and more often off receivers, and McCourty because Bill Belichick and Co. are varying his responsibilities and leaning harder on him with less help to his side."
76, I admire your tenacity.
But when the crowd is quiet about KJax for 2 weeks, then they come out, mob like & attack the man because Drew Brees punked him on the same play, 3 times then burn him for a touchdown..
& we don't hear that same outrage when the same thing happens to a 7 year veteran, (with Jason Campbell at QB)... it's not worth arguing anymore. There's nothing you can do. Factor in that all 3, repetitive plays he allowed the WR to get out of bounds to stop the clock with less than 2 minutes in the half....... sheesh.......
But when the crowd is quiet about KJax for 2 weeks, then they come out, mob like & attack the man because Drew Brees punked him on the same play, 3 times then burn him for a touchdown..
& we don't hear that same outrage when the same thing happens to a 7 year veteran, (with Jason Campbell at QB)... it's not worth arguing anymore. There's nothing you can do. Factor in that all 3, repetitive plays he allowed the WR to get out of bounds to stop the clock with less than 2 minutes in the half....... sheesh.......
Last edited:
Kjax was our first round pick. Allen was a street FA.
Both suck and that has been said plenty of times.
Kjax hasn't made the amount of big plays since hes been here that Allen has made in the past 5 quarters.
Allen atleast gets his hands on balls and causes turnovers in between getting abused. Kjax doesn't.
I think it is just your perception that Allen doesn't receive criticism because it is everywhere.
When we're arguing who is doing better, who has "earned" playing time, it doesn't matter.
True.....
Allen has had what 2 INTs in that time? KJac has had a forced fumble and 2 INTs since he's been here.
That 4 yard tackle for a loss by Allen.... that was rare imo, you'd get a lot more of those with KJax on the field. That missed tackle that burned Allen for the touchdown, KJ would have played it the exact same way & it wouldn't have been a TD. We win the game... (actually it would have been the same, since KJ wouldn't have got the INT that led to the Dressen TD)......
I know he receives criticism... I'm the one criticizing him. He doesn't get the level of criticism KJax gets. Not on this board, not on the Radio, & he should get worse... he's not going to get any better, you know that. There is no reason to believe KJ won't.
Right....That's why I also mentioned Allen making more plays than KJ...
I didn't specify turnovers...Allen's hit on Ward was a big play and at a crucial moment. But besides that, I was using hyperbole...Even if I was overstating it, Allen makes more plays than Kjax when he's in the game..They get roasted in different ways, but the results are similar...Kjax is more physical, tackles better...Allen runs better, plays deep passing routes a little better.
I've had this conversation with my friend for the past few Sundays. If you ask him, I like Kj more than I like Allen. I call Allen a puhce several times a game. I am surprised any time he hits or makes a tackle with any kind of authority. In my book he is a few steps above Brice McCain when it comes to being physical. And that ain't a compliment.
Honestly, there is nothing to be gained from another KJ isn't any worse than these guys thread. We have seen the point for at least 6 months now. Got it. Move on.
Ummmm,
KJ is in the same class as Peterson? OK
Peterson is learning, he's 5 games into his career. Unlike KJ if the CB thing doesn't work out for Peterson he can move to S. He's big enough and is a world class athlete. What is KJ again, oh that's right if he improves he might become average at best. But at this point in his career my eyes tell me KJ doesn't have the speed to be a CB2 in the NFL. KJ= bust. Hopefully he improves.
Those still shots are begining to make me think my eyes are lying to me. Do you think we could trade KJ for Peterson? LOL
KJ is in the same class as Peterson? OK
Peterson is learning, he's 5 games into his career. Unlike KJ if the CB thing doesn't work out for Peterson he can move to S. He's big enough and is a world class athlete. What is KJ again, oh that's right if he improves he might become average at best. But at this point in his career my eyes tell me KJ doesn't have the speed to be a CB2 in the NFL. KJ= bust. Hopefully he improves.
Those still shots are begining to make me think my eyes are lying to me. Do you think we could trade KJ for Peterson? LOL
I think that's his point. Corners make mistakes & getting one to translate to instant success in the NFL is rare. Even McCourty is struggling this year. DRC... it took him a season or two before he was anybody worth talking about.
The first two games of the year, there were no complaints about KJ... through three Quarters of the Saints game... no complaints, or at least very few. He gets worked over by Brees in the 4th... & he's all of a sudden the worst CB to ever play the game again.
We're 6th this year in passing defense through 5 games. KJ played the majority of 3 of them.
So he's getting better... he's "on the right track"
He's not the worst, (see Petey Faggins LOL) but he's up there.
On the right track? Is that you BoBBy?
Even Wade doesn't believe in KJ. All of the still shots in the world cant fool what my eyes see. Of course my vision isn't what it used to be. LOL
Last edited:
If you would, please move this thread back to the main forum where it belongs, thank you!
b0ng
Bad Hombre
All the analysis in the world will not make Kareem Jackson into a good CB, or even a serviceable one at this point.
Any team that we play will focus heavily on the #2 CB on our team and that's just how it's going to go until the Texans defense and the #2 CB can prove that it's not a sound decision to do so.
Any team that we play will focus heavily on the #2 CB on our team and that's just how it's going to go until the Texans defense and the #2 CB can prove that it's not a sound decision to do so.
Thank you, TK!
The analysis showed that Jackson played better than Patrick Peterson through their respective first five games as a pro.
Both gave up 3 passing TDs.
Peterson was punked on 2 rushing TDs, Jackson none.
Both had one INT, but Jackson's INT against the Giants was "more legitimate" than Peterson's against the Seahawks.
Jackson had 5 PDs while Peterson only had 3.
Jackson made more plays on 3rd down conversions than Peterson due to his tackling prowess (this one I will have to dig, but I'm 100% positive.)
And Peterson was regarded as the best CB prospect in a long long time.
Jackson wasn't even the first CB drafted in his class.
Assuming all that is true, what does any of that have to do with whther or not Kareem is a good player for us right now?
I think it speaks more to the unreasonable expectations Texans' fans put on Kareem. We think he doesn't deserve a spot on an NFL team, nickel at best. Wade Phillips has him starting from day one & out comes the talks that Kubiak/McNair hamstrung him to Wade Phillips.
76 has done a very good job imo, demonstrating that if you evaluate Kj on his own merit, look at what he does well, what he doesn't do well, Kj right now is the player we drafted with the 20th overall pick & he was everything we were told he would be.
He hasn't had the success of what you'd expect from that player, but that had as much to do with the team he was put on than with KJ himself.
What do you think of when you think of a 1st round Corner? That's what Kj can be. He'll get there quicker by being on the field & playing. It makes more sense to me to put him on the field now. Just like JJ Watt & Brooks Reed, Kj is going to be a much better player at week 11 than he is now.
With Allen on the field, we've got a ceiling..... a ceiling we can reach whether we put Allen on the field now or we put him on the field in week 11.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
Im not so sure KJax will improve ALL that much. Its not like he is keeping it close and just missing the ball. He is being straight abused. Learning to turn your head and locate the ball is fixable, playing closer to the wide out is fixable, learning to cover a guy is NOT. He has lots of problems and nothing seems to be improving. the problem is, we have no one to go out there and fill in while we "fix" Kareem. If we keep trotting him out there and letting him get abused he could get shell shocked and never improved. We're close to the point of no return on him.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
ok those stats can easily be viewed in many different ways. First off We were rarely punked by any running plays cause ALL TEAMS DID WAS PASS ON US.
Ok and u say a more lagitimate int ??? Have u watched the INT, it was a way bad throw right into Jacksons arms, its not like he earned it by good coverage. You want to talk about legitimate ints, then compare all of J. Allens and K.J ints since they have been with the texans, Then K.J would look really bad.
Trust in Wade, is all I'm saying. If he puts KJ on the field, then he's seeing something we ain't.
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
Wades having to make do with what he has.
If he had faith in KJ, Harris and Carmicheal wouldn't have been drafted. There would have been no trade up for Harris.
Carry on with the KJ love fest.
If he had faith in KJ, Harris and Carmicheal wouldn't have been drafted. There would have been no trade up for Harris.
Carry on with the KJ love fest.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
O I agree with this 100% and I do trust in him, but all I'm saying is, maybe corner should be a top priority yet again next off-season. He did inherit the worst secondary EVER.
Maybe, but we've got 11 games to figure that out.
hot pickle
Canada Eh
kareem jackson sucks! I was defending him all pre season and so far all season, but enough is enough already! why the hell does he play 10-15 yards off his WR every play and joseph is right up there bumping.... is that just wades defense or kareem just suck?
Wow.... I was scared Kj was going to get burned quite a bit. He was playing bump & run a lot this game.
So Kareem exceeded your expectations today?
It makes very little sense to have those two double teaming on Boldin and to leave man coverage on the other side against the bunch formation.
If it was man coverage, it makes more sense with Quin as he middle deep safety.
You can see here that the FS Quin was on the double team with the WCB Joseph.
Quin played over the top (1/2), Joseph trailed (1/4)
The SAM and both ILBS dropped according to the diagram.
There was no blitz, Rey!
The whole sequence is here:
http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Week%206%20at%20Ravens/51yd%20pass%20to%20TSmith/
If it was man coverage, it makes more sense with Quin as he middle deep safety.
You can see here that the FS Quin was on the double team with the WCB Joseph.
Quin played over the top (1/2), Joseph trailed (1/4)
The SAM and both ILBS dropped according to the diagram.
There was no blitz, Rey!
The whole sequence is here:
http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Week%206%20at%20Ravens/51yd%20pass%20to%20TSmith/
You are writing your own narrative instead of seeing what actually happened. Boldin is their best receiver and it makes no sense to double him?
Seriously, why do you try to explain away anything bad Kareem does? Its hard to take your analysis serious. All you do is post stuff to highlight other corners mistakes and stuff to make kareem's screw ups someone elses fault.
And I said the lb was in zone. I didn't say anyone blitzed, I said the lb was in a zone.
Seriously, why do you try to explain away anything bad Kareem does? Its hard to take your analysis serious. All you do is post stuff to highlight other corners mistakes and stuff to make kareem's screw ups someone elses fault.
And I said the lb was in zone. I didn't say anyone blitzed, I said the lb was in a zone.
Sorry, I meant to direct that blitzing part to TK.
So if your premise is to have Joseph and Quin double-teaming on their best receiver and leave Jackson covering half of the field playing man on the other, it's fine with me.
I simply give my take; we each write our own narrative!
It makes more sense to me if it was Kareem and Quin doubling on Boldin and Joseph in man coverage on the other WR if we were to play man.
Boldin is their best wr.
It makes more sense to double whoever Kareem is holding though.