Kareem Jackson's plight.

[76Texan]

How did other DB's manage to not look as foolish as KJ?

KJ had a terrible yr. That's the bottom line. I Hope he improves this yr.

Every play is different.
I'll ask you, just as I had asked EllisUnit and Lucky on each specific play, what is it that you think he did poorly or foolish.

Why can any one of you answer any of those questions?

I had posted each play in question and provided the scenarios.
The best anyone can get is like he shouldnt be in bump and run; he had a bad year, he fell down.

What did he do wrong in this play?
What is it that you want your CB to do in this instance?

All the plays are still there, in vivid color.
Why did you think he did poorly in any of those plays, I'd like to hear it!

Even as to those who think he fell down too much (and he did), please show me those scenarios and tell me how much harm he did to the team.

And of course, most people don't want to recognize the things that he did well to help the team.

People says oh I've seen all of it, I don't need to rewatch any of it.
The truth of the matter is most of us don't have the multi-proccessing brain of a computer. We can't see all around us 360 degree at the same time, and on top of that we don't know what each of the 22 players were supposed to do.

However, as I've said, the season is done with a long time ago.
Please take a look at each play seperately.
How would Asomugha or Newman or any of the guys you want would do in such a situation.

Would they do any better in such cirscumtances?
Tell me why, because I have shown you that all those guys had not fare any better in the same situation.

 

[Corrosion]

I think KJ needs to not tangle with WR until arrival of ball. He cannot hem miss and lose balance or be re-directed illegally or legally. He needs to re-train to a cover type corner rather than bump.

If you take away the potential jam at the LOS you have P-Burnt playing 7 yards deep on 3rd and three , Ive seen enough of that song and dance routine to last me a lifetime .....

Jackson simply has to improve that aspect of his game , not abandon it. Him being a rookie , you expect the wily veteran recievers to use and abuse him to some extent. Lets just hope he's learned the lessons that his rookie year taught him and we dont see the same mistakes.

 

[EllisUnit]

Every play is different.
I'll ask you, just as I had asked EllisUnit and Lucky on each specific play, what is it that you think he did poorly or foolish.

Why can any one of you answer any of those questions?

I had posted each play in question and provided the scenarios.
The best anyone can get is like he shouldnt be in bump and run; he had a bad year, he fell down.

What did he do wrong in this play?
What is it that you want your CB to do in this instance?

All the plays are still there, in vivid color.
Why did you think he did poorly in any of those plays, I'd like to hear it!

Even as to those who think he fell down too much (and he did), please show me those scenarios and tell me how much harm he did to the team.

And of course, most people don't want to recognize the things that he did well to help the team.

People says oh I've seen all of it, I don't need to rewatch any of it.
The truth of the matter is most of us don't have the multi-proccessing brain of a computer. We can't see all around us 360 degree at the same time, and on top of that we don't know what each of the 22 players were supposed to do.

However, as I've said, the season is done with a long time ago.
Please take a look at each play seperately.
How would Asomugha or Newman or any of the guys you want would do in such a situation.

Would they do any better in such cirscumtances?
Tell me why, because I have shown you that all those guys had not fare any better in the same situation.

Most of what i have seen is college photos, our other teams photos ur trying to justify why he looked foolish by showing other teams and how they get beat our win for whatever reason. Show me some slide shows of Allen that proves he's worse than K. Jac. Dont get me wrong 76 i love ur enthusiasm i really do, BUT i know what i saw last season, was it rookie mistakes, sure most of it, but rookie mistakes our not Jackson was BAD, and there is no glass half full with that, its not all the safties fault our because he was done wrong by a WR on a missed Ref call. How many times do we see a play like that obvious hold on M. Williams during the hail mary during the jags game where we lost. there is always illegal stuff going on, and he has to deal with it along with all the other CBs in the league. K. Jac was just bad, noone to blame but himself. Hopefully he has some kind of revelation and comes back with a vengance and makes the pro bowl and becomes a Hall of famer, but according to last season he has a lot of work to do.

 

[thunderkyss]

Me too. I was stunned when they traded back into the 2nd to get him. Smith just doesn't pull off steals like that very often. I'm very hopeful for Carmichael, also. I really liked what I read/saw of him after the draft. Supposed to be another high effort guy who will put in the work and study time to improve his game.

I've got high hopes for Brandon Harris.... I think he is the steal of the draft & a true cover corner. If this guy plays like I hope, he could easily be a legit #2.

If we are able to sign Aso, & Carmichael is a true nickel.... it doesn't look good for KJac.

Not that KJac is a bust, or could turn into a fine corner, he's just not the kind of guy I would have went after. Run support from the corners has been too high a priority for way too long in H-Town.

& for what KJac does, he needs a team with smart safeties. Like Quin.

 

[DocBar]

Most of what i have seen is college photos, our other teams photos ur trying to justify why he looked foolish by showing other teams and how they get beat our win for whatever reason. Show me some slide shows of Allen that proves he's worse than K. Jac. Dont get me wrong 76 i love ur enthusiasm i really do, BUT i know what i saw last season, was it rookie mistakes, sure most of it, but rookie mistakes our not Jackson was BAD, and there is no glass half full with that, its not all the safties fault our because he was done wrong by a WR on a missed Ref call. How many times do we see a play like that obvious hold on M. Williams during the hail mary during the jags game where we lost. there is always illegal stuff going on, and he has to deal with it along with all the other CBs in the league. K. Jac was just bad, noone to blame but himself. Hopefully he has some kind of revelation and comes back with a vengance and makes the pro bowl and becomes a Hall of famer, but according to last season he has a lot of work to do.

According to last season, the defense as a whole has a lot of work to do. Unfortunately, they aren't going to have much time to do it in.

 

[thunderkyss]

How did other DB's manage to not look as foolish as KJ?

KJ had a terrible yr. That's the bottom line. I Hope he improves this yr.

Maybe you should go back to the beginning of this thread.... 76 shows plenty of footage of other CBs looking just as foolish.

That's the whole point of this thread.

 

[badboy]

If you take away the potential jam at the LOS you have P-Burnt playing 7 yards deep on 3rd and three , Ive seen enough of that song and dance routine to last me a lifetime .....

Jackson simply has to improve that aspect of his game , not abandon it. Him being a rookie , you expect the wily veteran recievers to use and abuse him to some extent. Lets just hope he's learned the lessons that his rookie year taught him and we dont see the same mistakes.

What? There are corners who line up against WR and turn and run Like Revis, Aso and I believe Harris. There are corners from draft two years ago that do not play off WR 7 yards. This flabergasts me. If you don't put yout hands on WRF in tghe 5 yard area, he can't re-direct you legally.

 

[76Texan]

Most of what i have seen is college photos, our other teams photos ur trying to justify why he looked foolish by showing other teams and how they get beat our win for whatever reason. Show me some slide shows of Allen that proves he's worse than K. Jac. Dont get me wrong 76 i love ur enthusiasm i really do, BUT i know what i saw last season, was it rookie mistakes, sure most of it, but rookie mistakes our not Jackson was BAD, and there is no glass half full with that, its not all the safties fault our because he was done wrong by a WR on a missed Ref call. How many times do we see a play like that obvious hold on M. Williams during the hail mary during the jags game where we lost. there is always illegal stuff going on, and he has to deal with it along with all the other CBs in the league. K. Jac was just bad, noone to blame but himself. Hopefully he has some kind of revelation and comes back with a vengance and makes the pro bowl and becomes a Hall of famer, but according to last season he has a lot of work to do.

The thing is you have shown me nothing.
Trust me when some folks who appreciated what I'm doing while having a little negative feedback about some of the harsh criticism, I just brushed it aside saying that different opinions are good and welcomed. I don't mind it a bit.

But so far, you haven't shown me (like I've shown you as I've been defending Jackson).
Maybe you can show me the hail mary and how Jackson committed PI.
Don't you think for a minute that I haven't studied that play to deadth, as I've studied all the other plays.
(I've done my homework, it's not bragging.)

You keep saying that he was bad, but everytime you brought up the "bad", I gave you the true pictures.
You went left and right and can never prove that he was bad.
If bad means the same as Asomugha, Newman, Mathis, Revis, and other higher draft choices who are veterans then yes, Jackson was bad just the same (only he was bad in his rookie season while the others were bad in their prime.)

 

[steelbtexan]

I get what y'all are saying.

But I didn't see these things happen to Aso/Revis etc...

I didn't see Aso getting burned for TD's and 100+ yds by an undrafted FA. Serge Ahanatou. sp?

As you've proved KJ wasn't totally at fault. Wilson/Pollard stunk too. But I expected a whole lot more out of a highly rated draft pick than KJ gave us.

Obviously the pass defense was historically bad and KJ was a big part of that. I have hopes KJ can greatly improve under the new coaching regime. But He's going to have to prove it on the field.

 

[TEXANRED]

Jackson's plight is that he was drafted to high, he started right away, he is 2-3 years from being a decent CB, and he is just not a good NFL player.

Our scouting department along with Rick Smith should do the right thing and perform Seppuku for their shame.

 

[DocBar]

Jackson's plight is that he was drafted to high, he started right away, he is 2-3 years from being a decent CB, and he is just not a good NFL player.
Our scouting department along with Rick Smith should do the right thing and perform Seppuku for their shame.

Those seem to be mutualy exclusive and contradictory. Most NFL rookies are 2-3 years from being good at their positions.

 

[76Texan]

Show me some slide shows of Allen that proves he's worse than K. Jac.

That is in the card, my young man (I do like your enthusiasm too).
Some of the things I can show you (if I have time) includes the time he was with the Dolphins.
It will be kinda funny though, the Dolphins time, it looks like he was alright (and pretty good even).
I don't know what to tell you; on the surface, Allen had his good moments (like Pollard).
His bad moments were here and there but insignificant to a casual fan (this last season), yet he was canned.
He was canned for the things I saw, not the stats line he showed (as a Dolphins.)
It will be hard to prove; all I know is that he can only be canned because what I observed.
As a casual fan, if I present to you what he did as a Dolphins, you would say, why did them stupid coaches give him the pink slip for.
But they did. I don't know what else to tell you.
They saw what I must have been learning to see... the big picture.
Otherwise, it would have been totally foolish of them to let him go.

As a Texan, he showed much the same, only a liittle worse.
And I will show you.
He was not terrible, because as I've said, our CBs played better than the opponents'.
He's somewhat similar to Pollard. He can make some good plays and then he would give it all up. For a veteran, you can't have that.

Personally, I want a bunch of players who know what they are doing.
Sure, they can get beat here and there because they are not the strongest, nor the fastest.
But as long as they are capable somewhat in that regard, I will take them any time they show me they can do very well in the team concept.

I will play eleven guys against your 9 or 10 guys anytime, even though my guys are slower or smaller, or not as physical.

 

[dtran04]

The one Allen play that pissed me off was the long pass at the end of the Jets game. Played inside for no reason at all and let the guy catch a bomb at the sidelines. I would hope the coaches didn't tell him to do that. If they did...well, they are fired anyway.

 

[DocBar]

That is in the card, my young man (I do like your enthusiasm too).
Some of the things I can show you (if I have time) includes the time he was with the Dolphins.
It will be kinda funny though, the Dolphins time, it looks like he was alright (and pretty good even).
I don't know what to tell you; on the surface, Allen had his good moments (like Pollard).
His bad moments were here and there but insignificant to a casual fan (this last season), yet he was canned.
He was canned for the things I saw, not the stats line he showed (as a Dolphins.)
It will be hard to prove; all I know is that he can only be canned because what I observed.
As a casual fan, if I present to you what he did as a Dolphins, you would say, why did them stupid coaches give him the pink slip for.
But they did. I don't know what else to tell you.
They saw what I must have been learning to see... the big picture.
Otherwise, it would have been totally foolish of them to let him go.

As a Texan, he showed much the same, only a liittle worse.
And I will show you.
He was not terrible, because as I've said, our CBs played better than the opponents'.
He's somewhat similar to Pollard. He can make some good plays and then he would give it all up. For a veteran, you can't have that.

Personally, I want a bunch of players who know what they are doing.
Sure, they can get beat here and there because they are not the strongest, nor the fastest.
But as long as they are capable somewhat in that regard, I will take them any time they show me they can do very well in the team concept.

I will play eleven guys against your 9 or 10 guys anytime, even though my guys are slower or smaller, or not as physical.

I don't understand how you can find evidence that Revis, Aso, etc. could get burned the same way KJ did but have a hard time finding that evidence for Allen. Look at the same games, just on the other side of the field.
I just don't get that bolded part at all.

 

[EllisUnit]

The thing is you have shown me nothing.
Trust me when some folks who appreciated what I'm doing while having a little negative feedback about some of the harsh criticism, I just brushed it aside saying that different opinions are good and welcomed. I don't mind it a bit.

But so far, you haven't shown me (like I've shown you as I've been defending Jackson).
Maybe you can show me the hail mary and how Jackson committed PI.
Don't you think for a minute that I haven't studied that play to deadth, as I've studied all the other plays.
(I've done my homework, it's not bragging.)

You keep saying that he was bad, but everytime you brought up the "bad", I gave you the true pictures.
You went left and right and can never prove that he was bad.
If bad means the same as Asomugha, Newman, Mathis, Revis, and other higher draft choices who are veterans then yes, Jackson was bad just the same (only he was bad in his rookie season while the others were bad in their prime.)

Why show you when we ALL saw the same games and the same Kareem Jackson. We all saw him chasing WRs after he got beat, we all saw him fall down, and fall down, and down. Why do i not go so into depth ??? Because i know how bad he was, and i dont have to try to prove that to myself. You ever heard someone try to convince you of something that you know was not correct, i'm seeing a lot of that. Looking for any little thing to prove K. Jac was not as "bad" as we thought, our how he was so unfairly played due to our safeties, our because WRs doing illegal moves on him. Well he was bad and i know it, a lot of people on here know it, thats why i dont take the time to post play by play photos. I have nothing to prove to you our anyone cause like i said i KNOW he was bad.

 

[76Texan]

I get what y'all are saying.

But I didn't see these things happen to Aso/Revis etc...

I didn't see Aso getting burned for TD's and 100+ yds by an undrafted FA. Serge Ahanatou. sp?

As you've proved KJ wasn't totally at fault. Wilson/Pollard stunk too. But I expected a whole lot more out of a highly rated draft pick than KJ gave us.

Obviously the pass defense was historically bad and KJ was a big part of that. I have hopes KJ can greatly improve under the new coaching regime. But He's going to have to prove it on the field.

Go back to page 3 where Aso was in the same boat as Kjackson, only worse.
he was a mile from the play.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83114&page=3

According to your standard, Aso had his A kicked that day.
Check out my pictures at Photobucket.
Aso was kicked by the same two-receiver route (as you and other depicted).
He was kicked by the slant route.
He was kicked as the receiver cut back outside.
He was kicked by the back shoulder fade.
If you watch that game, I don't know how you can throw money at him.

FYI, the title in my album is "Aso or Jackson" something like that.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

I don't understand how you can find evidence that Revis, Aso, etc. could get burned the same way KJ did but have a hard time finding that evidence for Allen. Look at the same games, just on the other side of the field.
I just don't get that bolded part at all.

One of the plays that 76Texan showed (in exquisite detail) had KJack expecting a little safety help but there was only 10 guys on the field and the safety he was expecting help from was the guy that was missing. So KJ looked really bad but it was because of that lack of help.

 

[DocBar]

One of the plays that 76Texan showed (in exquisite detail) had KJack expecting a little safety help but there was only 10 guys on the field and the safety he was expecting help from was the guy that was missing. So KJ looked really bad but it was because of that lack of help.

I understood that and liked it. I was questioning why he would have a hard time finding evidence for Allen playing poorly last season. See post 162. KJ had a bad rookie year, but he wasn't the only one is what I'm getting at. There's more than enough blame to lay at the feet of the entire secondary.

 

[Corrosion]

Every CB gets beat ..... Thats why they say the position requires a short memory.

The Texans secondary last season was BAD .... Piss Poor but you cant place all the blame on one or two guy's. They all made mistakes. Hell , even when they made a play (Jacksonville - Quin) they came up snake-eyes.


Jackson made mistakes , lots of them (Ive made a hundred jokes about him falling down) .... but there is every reason to believe that he improves going forward - thats the nature of the business and the position.


Either way , we will see the guy on the field quite often next season like it or not .... Even if they sign Aso or whothe ****ever.

 

[Rey]

Funny how all these bad situations seemed to find kj.

I thunk being cursed is worse than sucking.

 

[Corrosion]

Funny how all these bad situations seemed to find kj.

I thunk being cursed is worse than sucking.

That team was nothing short of snake bit last season .....

 

[76Texan]

I don't understand how you can find evidence that Revis, Aso, etc. could get burned the same way KJ did but have a hard time finding that evidence for Allen. Look at the same games, just on the other side of the field.
I just don't get that bolded part at all.

I never said it's hard "for me" to find evidence.
It's pretty easy in fact, as one is a veteran and one is a rookie.
Don't worry, I'll get to it!

But why is it that it's always me?
This is an honest question.
If you love football then it's on you to really watch and not glossing over Quin's or Allen's mistakes or poor plays.

I pretty much challenged people to compare Jackson and Allen's plays the time Allen got here.

Did anybody show me anything? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I've had the Jets game analysis presented a while ago, for example.
Any challenge? NOOOOOOO!

Sorry, I don't mean to be hostile or anything near that.
I'm not a born Texans, but I know quite a few, and I learn their stubborn spirit for over 35 years now!

 

[76Texan]

Funny how all these bad situations seemed to find kj.

I thunk being cursed is worse than sucking.

See, that's why I mean by generalization.

If you know football, and you love football, go through each of these plays with me, and give me your opinion how, what, and why things can be better.
Don't be a common fan.
You say you're not.
Learn me what I don't know!

 

[DocBar]

I never said it's hard "for me" to find evidence.
It's pretty easy in fact, as one is a veteran and one is a rookie.
Don't worry, I'll get to it!

But why is it that it's always me?
This is an honest question.
If you love football then it's on you to really watch and not glossing over Quin's or Allen's mistakes or poor plays.

I pretty much challenged people to compare Jackson and Allen's plays the time Allen got here.

Did anybody show me anything? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I've had the Jets game analysis presented a while ago, for example.
Any challenge? NOOOOOOO!

Sorry, I don't mean to be hostile or anything near that.
I'm not a born Texans, but I know quite a few, and I learn their stubborn spirit for over 35 years now!

I work way too many hours a week to be able to devote as much time to this as you do. I really do enjoy your breakdowns of the games and plays and think you do a good job.
Don't get all butt hurt with me. LOL

 

[76Texan]

Why show you when we ALL saw the same games and the same Kareem Jackson. We all saw him chasing WRs after he got beat, we all saw him fall down, and fall down, and down. Why do i not go so into depth ??? Because i know how bad he was, and i dont have to try to prove that to myself. You ever heard someone try to convince you of something that you know was not correct, i'm seeing a lot of that. Looking for any little thing to prove K. Jac was not as "bad" as we thought, our how he was so unfairly played due to our safeties, our because WRs doing illegal moves on him. Well he was bad and i know it, a lot of people on here know it, thats why i dont take the time to post play by play photos. I have nothing to prove to you our anyone cause like i said i KNOW he was bad.

Until you bring something, have a good day!

When you don't have nothing to prove, you don't need to be engaging in any debate. Sorry, it is how it is!

 

[Corrosion]

Until you bring something, have a good day!

When you don't have nothing to prove, you don't need to be engaging in any debate. Sorry, it is how it is!

76 You been hangin out in the NSZ ?

 

[thunderkyss]

Funny how all these bad situations seemed to find kj.

I thunk being cursed is worse than sucking.

If we collectively scrutinized our other corners, you would find just as many.

If we collectively scrutinized Kyle Wilson or Antonio Cromartie, you'll find just as many.

There are several reasons why some of us are hung up on KJac, some are good, some are bad...... but we're focused on him none-the-less & every little thing he does is big news.

We're talking about Jason Allen like he should be a pro-bowler....... that should be enough to warn us that something ain't right... slow down.... rethink the whole situation.

There are somethings every corner should be able to do. There are somethings that no corner can be expected to do.

We know about his speed issue.... no one is denying that.
We know about his falling down....

In this thread, 76 has shown us how other teams played a common 2 receiver route... AJ whupped their asses... these aren't Texans' starters, these are bonafide would-be-starters on other teams. But it is an impossible route for a CB to cover on his own. With the other players out of position it is easy to see why some uninformed critics would lay the blame solely at the feet of the CB. Then you throw in the television production crews, who will sensationalize grass growing if they could....... & you've got fans watching KJac getting burned again & again & again. (Even though it wasn't KJac who got burned).

 

[Rey]

See, that's why I mean by generalization.

If you know football, and you love football, go through each of these plays with me, and give me your opinion how, what, and why things can be better.
Don't be a common fan.
You say you're not.
Learn me what I don't know!

I will as soon as I'm off my phone and on the computer.

What I think you should do though is look at the plays where Kareem screwed up.

All corners get beat or "appear to get beat".

That's why you have to have a short memory at the position. So yeah, you can point out plays where aso got beat or revis got schooled. Difference is those guys make their safeties job easier. Kjax doesn't. Even if you're expecting help that doesn't mean you let the wr do what ever they want. You still should be in playmaking distance. Sometimes the safeties will bite on other things. Tis the nature of being a safety.

The difference between the good corners and the shitty ones is that the good ones have the ability to atleast occasionally bail out bad play from others around them.

If you can only perform when the safeties are exactly where they should be, then you're not that good.

If you seem to screw up Everytime a safety is out of position then you are too handicapped to play the position. It's football. People around you are going to mess up.


Funny how other corners didn't find themselves in the same positions kj was in even though they were playing in the same defense and often times against better receivers.

Kjs footwork was awful. Once guys got past him he had no make up speed. He didn't make plays on the field. He wasn't strong at the Los.

I will go back and look at the plays but if you want to talk football we can talk about his timid demeanor in coverage and his shitty techniques.

I get he was a rookie, but he looked lost. Not very instinctual.

It looked like at times like he had no preparation throughout the week and was just told to react to whatever route was run. You see other corners occasionally jump routes because they've seen it on film, and have a feeling it's about to be run. They key off something. Jackson was all reactionary with poor technique.

It's fine too look at plays and say he should have had help, but you have to take into account the total picture. You're a corner you're going to get beat. My coach used to tell the DBS that all the time. But then he'd follow it up with "at least be in position to tackle the guy or slow him down".

Getting beat doesn't mean you have to give up super long td's or huge chunks of yardage.

What exactly did Kareem do to make the safeties job easier?

 

[Rey]

it is an impossible route for a CB to cover on his own. With the other players out of position it is easy to see why some uninformed critics would lay the blame solely at the feet of the CB. Then you throw in the television production crews, who will sensationalize grass growing if they could....... & you've got fans watching KJac getting burned again & again & again. (Even though it wasn't KJac who got burned).

Who has laid blame solely on anyone?

The safeties aren't even here anymore.

I've yet to see anyone defend the safeties and say kjax made them look worse than what they were. Even though if you think about it logically that was probably the case.

Wilson wasnt a world beater but he looked a lot better when dunta, reeves, and Quinn were at corner. Pollard had a very good season the year before.

Funny how they both fell off and looked like **** when the kiddie corners took the field.

Last year though, it was a collective effort of suckiness from all parties involved.

The safeties weren't good enough to mask the cb's deficiencies and the corners weren't good enough to mask the safeties miscues.

It's a two way street back there in coverage. Sometimes one or the other will mess up. Sometimes both. But the question is do you have enough talent back there to balance things out.

We did not. The coaching was poor, the safeties were poor and yes despite the many cries to the contrary in this thread Kareem Jackson was poor.

Pointing out someone elses mistake is not evidence that Jackson actually played well. All that means is that he us not talented enough to cover up others mistakes.

Also, this two receiver route you guys are talking about is not impossible to cover. Harder? Maybe. "impossible to cover". . . No.

 

[thunderkyss]

Pointing out someone elses mistake is not evidence that Jackson actually played well. All that means is that he us not talented enough to cover up others mistakes.

Also, this two receiver route you guys are talking about is not impossible to cover. Harder? Maybe. "impossible to cover". . . No.

Just about all of the photos in this thread have the offense running the same 2 receiver route. All of them show corners, more experienced than KJac in the same position. Including Aso, no position to make a play.

No one is talking about how bad those corners are. KJac is getting scrutinized here for doing the same thing others have done.

Dunta sucked flat out. I dont' believe he would have helped this team one bit in 2010. I don't think he should have been starting in 2009.

 

[thunderkyss]

As Walter turned back to the inside, he naturally got separation from the LCB.
This guy simply doesn't know which way the receiver was going.
Remember that this was not man coverage (because the other CB never followed AJ on the crossing route.)

I think some people have gotten too far away from the spirit of this thread.... this is just a little reminder of where we started.

 

[thunderkyss]

Here's the series where Namdi was in the same boat as Jackson.
This one resulted in a 41-yd TD, but it could have been 99yd for all we know.
In the first screen shot, you cannot see the safety but he's back there.

bump

 

[Rey]

Just about all of the photos in this thread have the offense running the same 2 receiver route. All of them show corners, more experienced than KJac in the same position. Including Aso, no position to make a play.

No one is talking about how bad those corners are. KJac is getting scrutinized here for doing the same thing others have done.

Dunta sucked flat out. I dont' believe he would have helped this team one bit in 2010. I don't think he should have been starting in 2009.

All corners get burned.

I didn't expect kjax to be flawless. And the colts corners suck too.

Show me aso getting roasted all year long like kj and maybe I'll see the point.

Abs btw, I think he actaully has talent. But all this stuff about him not looking as bad as he was is ridiculous. Dude was awful last year and he'll be the first to tell you that.

If the route was not able to be adequately defended in man coverage offenses would run it a lot more often and offenses would be a lot more unstoppable.

In fact I've see NFL corners defend that route perfectly.

 

[Rey]

While you're at it show some footage of Deion being roasted.

Not sure what on earth any of that has to do with Kareem being as bad as he was last year, but might as well show the breakdown.

 

[76Texan]

While you're at it show some footage of Deion being roasted.

Not sure what on earth any of that has to do with Kareem being as bad as he was last year, but might as well show the breakdown.

I've already presented a couple of game analyis (Colst week 1) and Jets.
It showed that KJax was the CB that had the best performance of the day in each.
Give me time and and I will upload screenshots to show all of that.
(But why can't you show me anything that prove your point , that KJax sucked?)

Now, I don't have Sanders, but if you reread this whole thread, you can see Aso getting burned against the Chargers, not just by the same two-receiver route (in which he was much further away from the action than KJax), but also a 34-yd backshoulder fade on which he was also called for PI.
He also got called for holding and PI on two other seperate plays where he can't afford to let the receiver cut back to the outside. (These are in the gamebook at NFL.com, I don't need to post screenshots of penalties, do I?)
He also got beat as he allowed Floyd to cut back to the outside on another play, but Rivers left the ball just long due to pressure.

Or as Lucky put it, he was "owned" by Floyd the whole game.

Here's a slant route:

http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Asomugha/KJ%20or%20Aso/15yd%20slant/

Here's a post route:
http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Asomugha/KJ%20or%20Aso/13yd%20post%20route/

 

[76Texan]

I work way too many hours a week to be able to devote as much time to this as you do. I really do enjoy your breakdowns of the games and plays and think you do a good job.
Don't get all butt hurt with me. LOL

I certainly don't mind it at all.
A good friend of mine of some 30 years still butt-head with me about KJax.
He's too busy to watch all of these evidence even though I am willing to sit down and go over all 16 games with him.
He said (like Rey said) that he didn't need to rewath anything, that he believe his own eyes.

I still see him pretty much every week.

 

[EllisUnit]

I've already presented a couple of game analyis (Colst week 1) and Jets.
It showed that KJax was the CB that had the best performance of the day in each.
Give me time and and I will upload screenshots to show all of that.
(But why can't you show me anything that prove your point , that KJax sucked?)

Now, I don't have Sanders, but if you reread this whole thread, you can see Aso getting burned against the Chargers, not just by the same two-receiver route (in which he was much further away from the action than KJax), but also a 34-yd backshoulder fade on which he was also called for PI.
He also got called for holding and PI on two other seperate plays where he can't afford to let the receiver cut back to the outside. (These are in the gamebook at NFL.com, I don't need to post screenshots of penalties, do I?)
He also got beat as he allowed Floyd to cut back to the outside on another play, but Rivers left the ball just long due to pressure.

Or as Lucky put it, he was "owned" by Floyd the whole game.

Here's a slant route:

http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Asomugha/KJ%20or%20Aso/15yd%20slant/

Here's a post route:
http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Asomugha/KJ%20or%20Aso/13yd%20post%20route/

2 games out of 16 - not great odds. Plus all we saw were slide shows of why K. Jac got beat, our how he was unfairly played due to illegal stuff by WRs, our he looked bad because of safties. And i think most of us dont even bother trying to PROVE how he sucked last season because most everyone "besides" you saw how he played and how bad he sucked. Is is easier to convience someone that their our aliens (K. Jac was good) our that the world isnt flat (K. Jac was bad) i think the obvious here.

 

[thunderkyss]

2 games out of 16 - not great odds. Plus all we saw were slide shows of why K. Jac got beat, our how he was unfairly played due to illegal stuff by WRs, our he looked bad because of safties. And i think most of us dont even bother trying to PROVE how he sucked last season because most everyone "besides" you saw how he played and how bad he sucked. Is is easier to convience someone that their our aliens (K. Jac was good) our that the world isnt flat (K. Jac was bad) i think the obvious here.

Personally, I don't have a problem saying KJac didn't play well.

My problem is people expecting him to have played better.

My problem is people thinking Dunta played better.

My problem is people thinking Jason Allen played better.

KJac is being scape goated here.... He was bad.... but no worse than you should expect from a rookie corner. He was not the worse corner we had last year..... one of the two best.. I think so.

He most definitely wasn't the biggest problem in our secondary. & he isn't our biggest liability in pass defense.

 

[Rey]

Personally, I don't have a problem saying KJac didn't play well.

My problem is people expecting him to have played better.

My problem is people thinking Dunta played better.

My problem is people thinking Jason Allen played better.

KJac is being scape goated here.... He was bad.... but no worse than you should expect from a rookie corner. He was not the worse corner we had last year..... one of the two best.. I think so.

He most definitely wasn't the biggest problem in our secondary. & he isn't our biggest liability in pass defense.

Dunta did play better k jax was not one of the better DBS last year and he is not being scapegoated because he still has a job.

Pollard was scapegoated. Not kj.

I don't ever recall a corner getting all twisted up at the Los and roasted for a long td the way Roy williams did him.

He actually had me missing reeves. Atleast he uses to be in playmaking distance. Dunta was not good, but dammit I missed him too.

Kj had me missing almost every scrub corner we've ever trotted out there.


He was not good and I'm not sure how you guys can't see that. Pulling up a few plays out of the hundreds he played is not evidence. Pulling up a couple of plays from aso is not evidence. It's a mere sample. I looked at them and you can't really tell much from still shots.

You can't really see what the technique looks like which is most of the battle. You can't see quickness in and out of cuts. You can't see how fluid the backpedal is or what they look like when they turn their hips.

I think you guys are the ones over simplifying things.

Using a small sample size and then declaring that because the safety wasn't where he needed to be kj looked bad.

We don't Where the safety needed to be. And we don't know how the coaches had the secondary playing.

There is a such thing as a corner being in one on one coverage with one or both of the safeties being in a middle zone. Just because you think it should be cover two doesn't mean it is.

I saw enough last year to come to two conclusions. He has talent, he had an awful first year. That's it. Breaking down particular plays is not something I'm going to do. I saw enough bad things all on my own watching the games last year, and none of the bad things were due to him not having help.

At times he was put in a bad position, but the coaches thought they had a number one corner which is all their fault.

 

[Lucky]

Or as Lucky put it, he was "owned" by Floyd the whole game.

Great job of pointing out the only game of 300+ yards passing the Raiders allowed in 2010. The Raiders (with Asomugha) had the 2nd ranked pass defense in yards allowed in 2010.

Kareem Jackson and the Texans pass defense? 5 games of 300+ passing yardage allowed and 32nd (also known as last) in the league in passing yardage. The Texans allowed more passing yardage (267 ypg) than any other defense over the past 5 seasons. I don't know how 1 million screen shots can erase that fact.

 

[thunderkyss]

I saw enough last year to come to two conclusions. He has talent, he had an awful first year. That's it. Breaking down particular plays is not something I'm going to do. I saw enough bad things all on my own watching the games last year, and none of the bad things were due to him not having help.

Well, hell, then you agree with us.

At times he was put in a bad position, but the coaches thought they had a number one corner which is all their fault.

We don't know that he isn't a number one. I do agree the decision to start him & play him as a #1 wasn't a good idea... Terrance Newman didn't look as bad, but Terrance Newman didn't play on this team....

DRC didn't look great his first year. Reevis didn't start for much of his first year. Kyle Wilson didn't look great his first year.

I don't know that KJac won't be a true #1 before it's all said & done, but he has a lot of perception to overcome...

 

[thunderkyss]

Great job of pointing out the only game of 300+ yards passing the Raiders allowed in 2010. The Raiders (with Asomugha) had the 2nd ranked pass defense in yards allowed in 2010.

Kareem Jackson and the Texans pass defense? 5 games of 300+ passing yardage allowed and 32nd (also known as last) in the league in passing yardage. The Texans allowed more passing yardage (267 ypg) than any other defense over the past 5 seasons. I don't know how 1 million screen shots can erase that fact.

That wasn't the point. We aren't trying to compare the Texans pass defense with the Raiders or KJac with Aso.

What 76 is illustrating is that the receiver has the edge, always in one on one coverage. The corner has no idea when the ball is going to release, or where the receiver is trying to get to. The defensive scheme dictates how the corner is going to play a particular route on a particular down. Expecting safety help inside, you have to honor the outside route, where there is no help. When you do that, the receiver gets natural separation if they cut back inside. Which is ok, because there is supposed to be a safety there. If the safety isn't there, the easy (and wrong call) would be to blame the CB for being a talentless clueless P.O.S. even though he did exactly what he was supposed to.

We know it is exactly what he was supposed to do, because that is exactly what pro-bowl corners (& the Colts corner) did.

Unless you are saying each one of those corners in the exact same situation played that situation wrong. If that is your argument, all 76 is asking, is to tell him when & where you saw it done right. A picture or video would be nice... but no one is taking him up on that one.

 

[Lucky]

Unless you are saying each one of those corners in the exact same situation played that situation wrong. If that is your argument, all 76 is asking, is to tell him when & where you saw it done right. A picture or video would be nice... but no one is taking him up on that one.

Don't be obtuse. I watched every play of the Texans 2010 season, as well as many other NFL games. In my lifetime, I've watched over 1000 NFL games. I know what a good cornerback looks like. I know what a bad cornerback looks like. In the 2010 season, Kareem Jackson was a bad cornerback. Even for a rookie. The results back me up.

I'm not saying Jackson was well supported by the players or the coaches surrounding him. I'm not suggesting that it is impossible for Kareem to improve. What I am saying is that Jackson was atrocious in 2010 and it's not automatic that he will improve. There may be physical limitations that he cannot overcome. Wade Phillips himself has openly questioned Jackson's ability.

In summary, I do not feel it would be wise for the Texans to assume that Jackson will improve and become a competent player in 2011. By drafting CBs and (hopefully) bringing in a top free agent, I believe the organization agrees with that rationale. It's time for the Texans to discontinue the practice of handing young players jobs they have not earned. Kareem Jackson has yet to earn a job as a Houston Texan.

 

[EllisUnit]

Don't be obtuse. I watched every play of the season, as well as many other NFL games. In my lifetime, I've watched over 1000 NFL games. I know what a good cornerback looks like. I know what a bad cornerback looks like. In the 2010 season, Kareem Jackson was a bad cornerback. Even for a rookie. The results back me up.

I'm not saying Jackson was well supported by the players or the coaches surrounding him. I'm not suggesting that it is impossible for Kareem to improve. What I am saying is that Jackson was atrocious in 2010 and it's not automatic that he will improve. There may be physical limitations that he cannot overcome. Wade Phillips himself has openly questioned Jackson's ability.

In summary, I do not feel it would be wise for the Texans to assume that Jackson will improve and become a competent player in 2011. By drafting CBs and (hopefully) bringing in a top free agent, I believe the organization agrees with that rationale. It's time for the Texans to discontinue the practice of handing young players jobs they have not earned. Kareem Jackson has yet to earn a job as a Houston Texan.

Nice post.

 

[badboy]

I am much more concerned how KJ plays this year with a year under his belt & a better coach. If I am lucky he will be learning behind Asomugha & what 2nd year corner can not benefit from that?

 

[76Texan]

Comment from Dan Dierdorf on the Walter play:
"He's expecting safety help".

Comment from Solomon Wilcott on the Floyd play:
"Namdi must be saying what happens to the help I wa expecting from the other side of the field?.... Misread and mistake in the secondary will cost you every single time."

 

[76Texan]

.



Using a small sample size and then declaring that because the safety wasn't where he needed to be kj looked bad.

We don't Where the safety needed to be. And we don't know how the coaches had the secondary playing.

Well, if we don't know what the secondary was supposed to be playing then how can we blame KJax on these plays (the 2-receiver route)?

Should we just file it under questionable instead?

What I learn is the from either cover one or cover 3, the drop kick call was one of the ways to defend the pattern (safety staying back is the other).

I found the drop-kick call in Wade's playbook (when he was in Atlanta); it's not something that I made up.
We saw it in action in one of the example I gave.
The Yates' INT.

This thread isn't supposed to cover all the plays involving KJax;
its title is Jackson's plight.
It is meant to show certain plays KJax was being blamed for are at least questionable.

If I have time, I will get to all the important plays in each game.

 

[76Texan]

In the 3 plays that involved the Texans (the two-man route), we should be able to determine that it was cover 3 because Quin did not follow the crossing route.

If there's no drop kick call then the safety simply has to stay back deep.

 

[badboy]

In the 3 plays that involved the Texans (the two-man route), we should be able to determine that it was cover 3 because Quin did not follow the crossing route.

If there's no drop kick call then the safety simply has to stay back deep.

76 I think what we hve on this thread is reality (your POV) & perception of reality (my view). I am not ready to give up my view for yours yet. Although what you are showing and saying does make sense. Reminds me of the threads about Chris Myer and Okoye. Kubiak defended Okoye last season and then phillips comes along and hints he has no place for the guy.

 

[76Texan]

76 I think what we hve on this thread is reality (your POV) & perception of reality (my view). I am not ready to give up my view for yours yet. Although what you are showing and saying does make sense. Reminds me of the threads about Chris Myer and Okoye. Kubiak defended Okoye last season and then phillips comes along and hints he has no place for the guy.

All I'm asking for is an open mind.

BTW, here's the drop-kick call from the playbook.
It doesn't even involve the CB on play side (Jackson).
It simply states that when this call is made (automatically or as the safety calls out, we don't know), the safety comes down on the crossing route and the off-side CB (Quin) takes his place deep.

It clearly says CORNER in the POST.