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The Texans needs to be working out more kickers

Texecutioner

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Okay, I don't want to go through this ridiculous debacle all over again to where it effects the over all season like it did last year. Rackers was obviously not a complete replacement for Brown, since Kubes can't even trust him to hit a 53 yarder when the game is possibly on the line. We obviously didn't fix any of these kicker problems if we can't even trust the guy to hit a FG like that in OT.

So go find one. Keep looking. Go try out some more kickers and bring another one on this roster with some potential. At least get someone that will get Rackers practicing like crazy to get better and to keep his job. Last season Kubes made a big mistake by not working out other kickers and got complacent with Brown and it cost us the playoffs. That could happen all over again for all we know and we could be in the playoffs possibly this time in a position to win, but possibly lose if we don't have a guy who can nail it for us when we're in scoring position. Kickers are a very important position on any football team despite what people think. They have a very strong effect on the outcomes of games every single week in this league and we need a guy that we can trust. We're not one of these bottom feeder teams anymore to where it isn't that big of a deal. We are a big time team that can potentially beat anyone on any field and way to many games will come down to the wire where your kicker has to put the nail in the coffin and we need a guy who can be consistent and can do that. We need a guy that we can trust.
 
While I agree that the Texans should always be looking to upgrade I totally disagree with the "since Kubes can't even trust him to hit a 53 yarder" comment. Anything over 45 yards is not a "gimme" for any kicker in the league. If he misses, do you really want McNabb starting from the 43 yard line??? HELL NO!!!

It would've been dumb to gamble there. I wish Turk would've gotten off a better punt and been able to pin them inside the 20, but regardless, the Texans netted 23 yards by punting.
 
No matter what kicker we had out there, Kubiak would have punted. It was the wind that made his decision. He just had a 'gut feeling' with the wind. There is no possible way that we will go look for a new kicker right after the competition in camp. IMO, it's ridiculous to even suggest it.
 
Texan_Bill said:
While I agree that the Texans should always be looking to upgrade I totally disagree with the "since Kubes can't even trust him to hit a 53 yarder" comment. Anything over 45 yards is not a "gimme" for any kicker in the league. If he misses, do you really want McNabb starting from the 43 yard line??? HELL NO!!!

It would've been dumb to gamble there. I wish Turk would've gotten off a better punt and been able to pin them inside the 20, but regardless, the Texans netted 23 yards by punting.
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It was actually from the 34, but the delay of game after the decision to punt made it the 39. Net of 14 yards at best, but enough to make the Redskin's FG attempt too far for their guy.
 
Shayne Graham is only 9 of 18 from beyond 50.
Adam Vinatieri is 10 of 22

Rackers 19 of 39


I'm not a betting man, but I know enough to not like those odds.
 
Dutchrudder said:
It was actually from the 34, but the delay of game after the decision to punt made it the 39. Net of 14 yards at best, but enough to make the Redskin's FG attempt too far for their guy.
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Ball is spotted at the hold, not the LOS on a missed FG attempt (unless it was inside the 20).

53 yard attempt, the ball would be spotted at the 43.
 
Rackers is 5/18 from 50+ over the last 4 seasons. Do you really want him lining up to kick a 53 yarder? When we went with Neil over Kris, we took accuracy over distance. I was praying that Kubes didn't trot Rackers out there to kick a 53 yard FG.
 
Texan_Bill said:
While I agree that the Texans should always be looking to upgrade I totally disagree with the "since Kubes can't even trust him to hit a 53 yarder" comment. Anything over 45 yards is not a "gimme" for any kicker in the league. If he misses, do you really want McNabb starting from the 43 yard line??? HELL NO!!!

It would've been dumb to gamble there. I wish Turk would've gotten off a better punt and been able to pin them inside the 20, but regardless, the Texans netted 23 yards by punting.
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I tend to agree with this. Heck, the Redskins kicker was 50% from 52 yards, so it's certainly not an easy kick.

Besides, our defense would've held if not for that bonehead penalty. So Kubiak's strategy was sound in relying on the defense. You can't coach to anticipate stupid penalties.

My gut reaction at the time was to kick, but I quickly realized the folly when we punted. People would be asking for Kubiak's head if they had tried and missed and gave the Redskins that field position. Look how short the field was for us when we got the ball back. It's a dangerous decision, and I don't mind being a little conservative and putting your defense on notice.
 
Allstar said:
No matter what kicker we had out there, Kubiak would have punted. It was the wind that made his decision. He just had a 'gut feeling' with the wind. There is no possible way that we will go look for a new kicker right after the competition in camp. IMO, it's ridiculous to even suggest it.
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It's ridiculous to even suggest it? What the hell are you smoking? We can't even trust our guy to win a game for us. Did you watch the Texans last season when we put to much trust into Brown? How well did that work? Oh, that's right it cost us to miss the playoffs. Do you think that Rackers is this great kicker right now after he missed a 47 yarder as well? Did you forget about that one? You don't get complacent just because you signed a guy. You make sure that he is the guy, and Rackers may not be. I want to see a guy that the coach has confidence in. There are way to many games that come down to FG's in the NFL as to who wins or loses.
 
dc_txtech said:
Rackers is 5/18 from 50+ over the last 4 seasons. Do you really want him lining up to kick a 53 yarder? When we went with Neil over Kris, we took accuracy over distance. I was praying that Kubes didn't trot Rackers out there to kick a 53 yard FG.
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19 of 39 for his career.
 
Rackers made the kick we needed to win the game. Plus, on kickoffs, he continually puts the ball 5 yards deep into the endzone. Lets have a reason to want to replace our kicker before calling for his head.
 
Texan_Bill said:
Ball is spotted at the hold, not the LOS on a missed FG attempt (unless it was inside the 20).

53 yard attempt, the ball would be spotted at the 43.
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I was talking about the punt. The punt essentially netted 14 yards by going from the 34 to the 20. The FG is a whole other story, but Rackers did miss a 47 yard FG earlier in the game, so a ~49 is not necessarily a gimme. Personally, I think they should have gone for it on 4th and 4.
 
Rackers kicking a 50+ yard FG into the wind in overtime.....Do not want....

If they can find a kicker out there that they think is better than Rackers...Bring him in and evaluate him...

But with the whole kicking competition thing during the off-season, I think it would be kind of foolish to bring in an unproven kicker to replace Rackers...That means the whole kicker competition thing, and putting them in "pressure" situations was a waste of time and really didn't even matter...

Not sure I want just some random kicker off the street coming in...If they were to do that I'd be shocked...

If they were to do that, they'd be putting a lot of faith in that kicker because the second he misses a crucial kick Kubiak and Smith would be lambasted...
 
Dutchrudder said:
I was talking about the punt. The punt essentially netted 14 yards by going from the 34 to the 20. The FG is a whole other story, but Rackers did miss a 47 yard FG earlier in the game, so a ~44 is not necessarily a gimme. Personally, I think they should have gone for it on 4th and 4.
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Your missing my point. If we would've kicked and missed the ball would've been spotted at the 43 - that's the 23 yard net I'm referring to.
 
Double Barrel said:
My gut reaction at the time was to kick, but I quickly realized the folly when we punted. People would be asking for Kubiak's head if they had tried and missed and gave the Redskins that field position. Look how short the field was for us when we got the ball back. It's a dangerous decision, and I don't mind being a little conservative and putting your defense on notice.
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I would agree with this if our secondary hadn't been getting toasted all game long, but I've seen Mcnabb go down the field and win big games at the end of a game to many times to want to trust our young secondary against a vet like that who routinely made comebacks for years with the Eagles garbage WR's that they had for a long time.

It worked out in that game obviously, but going forward I don't want to have to trust a young secondary in a situation like that when it might be against the Colts the next time around when you know Manning is going down the field and scoring. We need a guy that can put a game away. Kris Brown was that guy for many years and I had a lot of faith in him. Hell, I was at the game where he kicked like 5 FG's or something like that and the game winning one a few years ago. We need a guy that we can rely on. Not just a guy that can we can strut out there for 35 yarders and extra points.
 
Rey said:
Rackers kicking a 50+ yard FG into the wind in overtime.....Do not want....

If they can find a kicker out there that they think is better than Rackers...Bring him in and evaluate him...

But with the whole kicking competition thing during the off-season, I think it would be kind of foolish to bring in an unproven kicker to replace Rackers...That means the whole kicker competition thing, and putting them in "pressure" situations was a waste of time and really didn't even matter...

Not sure I want just some random kicker off the street coming in...If they were to do that I'd be shocked...

If they were to do that, they'd be putting a lot of faith in that kicker because the second he misses a crucial kick Kubiak and Smith would be lambasted...
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I'll bet donuts to dollars, they won't find a kicker with a much better career average than Rackers as it relates to 50+ yarders.
 
We've got Schaub's backside protector out 4 games, our secondary's giving up 400 burgers on a weekly basis and we're worried about the freakin kicker? Maybe it's just me, but we've got more important issues to deal with. IMO, a stopgap kicker can be found easy if Rackers ends up going mental

We need to be working out tackles, if anyone. If Salaam has to play we're doomed
 
Texecutioner said:
I would agree with this if our secondary hadn't been getting toasted all game long, but I've seen Mcnabb go down the field and win big games at the end of a game to many times to want to trust our young secondary against a vet like that who routinely made comebacks for years with the Eagles garbage WR's that they had for a long time.

It worked out in that game obviously, but going forward I don't want to have to trust a young secondary in a situation like that when it might be against the Colts the next time around when you know Manning is going down the field and scoring. We need a guy that can put a game away. Kris Brown was that guy for many years and I had a lot of faith in him. Hell, I was at the game where he kicked like 5 FG's or something like that and the game winning one a few years ago. We need a guy that we can rely on. Not just a guy that can we can strut out there for 35 yarders and extra points.
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That's all you need if your offense is kicking ass! ;)
 
Rey said:
But with the whole kicking competition thing during the off-season, I think it would be kind of foolish to bring in an unproven kicker to replace Rackers...That means the whole kicker competition thing, and putting them in "pressure" situations was a waste of time and really didn't even matter...
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I'm not saying to just bring a guy in and have him replace Rackers right away. I'm saying to bring some guys in and try them out and possibly put one on the roster if they can show some skills good enough to possibly become an asset this year if Rackers continues to struggle. You never know. We might be able to find that one young guy in the making that becomes a great kicker for many years. Last season Kubes refused to bring in any new kickers to try out and put all of his faith in Brown and that cost us the playoffs. I don't want to put all the faith in Rackers when he missed a 47 yard FG and we can't trust him to hit a 52 yard one either. That doesn't sit well with me going forward, because we're going to play plenty of teams who might have kickers that will hit those.
 
HOU-TEX said:
We've got Schaub's backside protector out 4 games, our secondary's giving up 400 burgers on a weekly basis and we're worried about the freakin kicker? Maybe it's just me, but we've got more important issues to deal with. IMO, a stopgap kicker can be found easy if Rackers ends up going mental

We need to be working out tackles, if anyone. If Salaam has to play we're doomed
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:goodpost: Is Brad Hopkins out there? Better yet, get Bruce to suit up!! :runaway:
 
Texecutioner said:
I would agree with this if our secondary hadn't been getting toasted all game long, but I've seen Mcnabb go down the field and win big games at the end of a game to many times to want to trust our young secondary against a vet like that who routinely made comebacks for years with the Eagles garbage WR's that they had for a long time.
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That's true...

However like DB said there were other factors to consider...

You can't just look at the negatives of what he did and say it was a bad decision...

You have to look at all the factors that went into it...

At the time our defense was doing a good job against their offense...No way we could have made that kind of comeback without some help defensively...

In the fourth quarter we tightened up a little bit and started holding them to field goal attempts and punts...

Kubiak said that he felt his defense had the hot hand and if they had been able to pin them deep with that punt he didn't even think they'd be able to get range to attempt a field goal...

Well, the punt wasn't good, and the defense was still able to hold them to a long field goal attempt...

Kubiak was right.
 
Simply put: great kickers are extremely rare.

Decent kickers are abundant.

Good kickers are fairly common.

Great kickers are rare.

It's a shame Kris Brown became a head case. I was more comfortable with his long attempts than I was with the shorter ones.
 
Texecutioner said:
I'm not saying to just bring a guy in and have him replace Rackers right away. I'm saying to bring some guys in and try them out and possibly put one on the roster if they can show some skills good enough to possibly become an asset this year if Rackers continues to struggle.
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I am not really opposed to that...

But who are you going to cut for that to happen?

If you did that, you'd essentially have to cut four people within the next four weeks...

One person when Cushing comes back, Anthony Hill gets off of pup, Salaam probably goes when Brown comes back...And then you'd have to cut someone to give this extra kicker a spot...

I just don't see that happening...You'd probably have to let go of some good depth to bring in a guy who may or may not even play....

Kubes barely likes to carry three QB's....I can't see him bringing in an extra kicker...

I dunno if Kickers can be put on Practice Squad...I don't think they'd do that either though...
 
@ Rey ^

Danny Clark will be the one to get cut when Cushing comes back.

If Hill comes back, I would imagine he will take over long snapping duties, so the LS might be cut.

Salaam is gone after Brown comes back.

No room for a kicker that I can see, unless they sign him to the PS.
 
Dutchrudder said:
@ Rey ^

Danny Clark will be the one to get cut when Cushing comes back.

If Hill comes back, I would imagine he will take over long snapping duties, so the LS might be cut.

Salaam is gone after Brown comes back.

No room for a kicker that I can see, unless they sign him to the PS.
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Danny Clark was cut a long time ago.

They might cut the Dixon kid...But he looks like he has some potential and he looks like he can help on special teams right now...

I agree that Salaam is probably gone...

And I can't see them cutting the Long snapper when Hill comes back...

I really think Molden will be lucky to be on the roster after all the smoke has cleared in a couple of weeks...I think he or Jamaar Wall may be cut...
 
Dutchrudder said:
So he was...

Probably Bing or Nixon then.
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Bing is on IR...

I added to my post and I listed Nixon as a possibility...

I don't know if he has PS eligibility....

If Adibi can stay healthy then Nixon probably will be cut...They look like the same kind of player, but Nixon seems like he's a better pass rusher...
 
I'm not too worried about it, particularly the reasoning being that Kubiak didn't let Rackers attempt that 53 yarder in overtime. Only 1 FG over 50 yards has been made at Fed Ex Field in the last 3 years (and it was 51 yards).
 
Look, the Texans essentially traded distance for accuracy, and they got a better ST player as a bonus. Sure, KB could go out there for 53 yards and you know he had the leg, but a miss is a miss, and it doesn't matter if it's wide left into the stands or short a couple yards. A miss is a miss.

Just accept the fact that we have a more accurate kicker that isn't going to attempt too many 50+ yarders. If Rackers only hits 75% of his FGs from less than 50, then the whole experiment was a failure. But if he hits 85%+, then you traded distance for accuracy.
 
Texecutioner said:
It's ridiculous to even suggest it? What the hell are you smoking? We can't even trust our guy to win a game for us. Did you watch the Texans last season when we put to much trust into Brown? How well did that work? Oh, that's right it cost us to miss the playoffs. Do you think that Rackers is this great kicker right now after he missed a 47 yarder as well? Did you forget about that one? You don't get complacent just because you signed a guy. You make sure that he is the guy, and Rackers may not be. I want to see a guy that the coach has confidence in. There are way to many games that come down to FG's in the NFL as to who wins or loses.
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It's ridiculous because we just had a long 'hard fought' battle between Brown and Rackers throughout camp. If there is one position that I don't want to affect the psyche of, it's the kicker. Their job is all about mindset and going through the same motions. Hell, why do you think coaches 'ice' the kickers? It's because the kicking game mental.

If we bring in competition and Rackers still wins the battle, do you honestly think it still wouldn't affect him? If I have to worry about losing my job every time I kick, I would probably perform differently. Even if we got a new kicker, do you think he'd feel very safe after knowing he's the third kicker on the roster in the last month?
 
Allstar said:
It's ridiculous because we just had a long 'hard fought' battle between Brown and Rackers throughout camp. If there is one position that I don't want to affect the psyche of, it's the kicker. Their job is all about mindset and going through the same motions. Hell, why do you think coaches 'ice' the kickers? It's because the kicking game mental.

If we bring in competition and Rackers still wins the battle, do you honestly think it still wouldn't affect him? If I have to worry about losing my job every time I kick, I would probably perform differently. Even if we got a new kicker, do you think he'd feel very safe after knowing he's the third kicker on the roster in the last month?
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I think there is relevance to what you're saying and all, but these kickers should be used to that by now. Rackers has been kicking probably all throughout HS and college, and if he can't handle a kicking competition, then he's probably not the right guy for the job any way. It's not like he was already the guy here. He came in and took that guy's position, so he should have some confidence from that. I just don't want to be to complacent with kickers and I've always thought that kickers are pretty important unlike many other people. They determine the outcomes of games all of the time and have determined SB's in the past. We took this position lightly last season as far as how much it could effect our season and we missed the playoffs by under looking it.
 
1) Rackers had already missed a 47 yarder early in the game

2) Rackers isn't exactly nails in clutch situations. Sure, the GB debacle from last year is fresh in everyone's minds, but he also missed a game winner in the cardinal monday night game where Denny Green let off his now infamous "they are who we thought they were" rant. He's got the choke in him.

3) rackers barely hit a 50 yarder in Preseason against the Saints.....indoors at that. He just doesn't have the leg.

I was fine with kube's decision b/c at that point our defense was playing quite well & if not for Smith's brain fart they likely don't even get the shot at the fg that they got.
 
Mr teX said:
3) rackers barely hit a 50 yarder in Preseason against the Saints.....indoors at that. He just doesn't have the leg.
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I liked Kubiak's decision to punt, but Rackers does have the leg. Half time of the last preseason game he hit one easily from 62-63 yds. Not saying he'd have a high percentage but that day he hit from 52, 57 and then 62 in a row although clearly it was practice rather than actual game kicks.
 
infantrycak said:
I liked Kubiak's decision to punt, but Rackers does have the leg. Half time of the last preseason game he hit one easily from 62-63 yds. Not saying he'd have a high percentage but that day he hit from 52, 57 and then 62 in a row although clearly it was practice rather than actual game kicks.
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Key word "halftime"....i.e. no one in front of them trying to block it & no pressure....most of those guys are kickoff specialist as well so the raw power is there. but when you've got to get into 1 & keep your accuracy with all the other factors involved, As we know, its usually a different story when the lights are on.
 
Texecutioner said:
I'm not saying to just bring a guy in and have him replace Rackers right away. I'm saying to bring some guys in and try them out and possibly put one on the roster if they can show some skills good enough to possibly become an asset this year if Rackers continues to struggle. You never know. We might be able to find that one young guy in the making that becomes a great kicker for many years. Last season Kubes refused to bring in any new kickers to try out and put all of his faith in Brown and that cost us the playoffs. I don't want to put all the faith in Rackers when he missed a 47 yard FG and we can't trust him to hit a 52 yard one either. That doesn't sit well with me going forward, because we're going to play plenty of teams who might have kickers that will hit those.
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We don't know that for sure.

Smith brings in guys to try out every Tuesday. And with our wonderful reporting staff covering the Texans, we rarely hear about it. He may have brought in a kicker or two last year. He may bring in a kicker this year.

BUT... with Rackers we have one of the better kickers in the league. He's not a guy that kicks long field goals. If you want him, you lose some of those longer field goals that we would sometimes get with Kris Brown but otoh, we get fewer missed kicks from closer in.

I'm in the boat of being perfectly fine with the punt in that situation. I would have preferred us to rely more on Arian during that series. I think he could have ground out a couple of first downs for us and gotten much closer to field goal range. But in the position we were in, I was fine with punting.

If we should bring anyone in, it's a new punter. You can't kick into the end zone in that situation.
 
Folks are really overplaying this Rackers can't hit long thing:

Rackers 19 of 39, 48.7% from over 50 yds.
Brown 18 of 33, 54.5% from over 50 yds.

So he has the leg but is marginally less accurate long. But then again he is almost 10% more accurate from 40-49 yes.

Mr teX said:
Key word "halftime"....i.e. no one in front of them trying to block it & no pressure....most of those guys are kickoff specialist as well so the raw power is there. but when you've got to get into 1 & keep your accuracy with all the other factors involved, As we know, its usually a different story when the lights are on.
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Believe I mentioned it was practice. In any event, being in the game doesn't make their legs weaker it makes their aim more shaky.
 
I am lost here.

You want to replace the kicker that WON the game in OT for us.
The kick did not go wide right or wide left or hit the upright and bounced away. It went through the middle of the uprights and we WON the game.

We WON the game on the field goal.

You want to crucify him because the Coach decided not to have him try one from 53 yards?

The man had been sick during the week passing kidney stones, probably didn't get in as much practice and may have been a just a tad weak.
 
with 10 years of game film and all of training camp I think I might lose some confidence in the coaching staff if they just now realized what type of kicker they went out and got. He actually just made the game winning kick. Finding a replacement kicker should be the last thing on anyone's mind.
 
Does anyone recall that in the game, Ian Eagle mentioned that Neil Rackers passed a kidney stone last Saturday? He was listed on the injury report as having an illness. I think this may have had something to do with it.
 
Grams said:
I am lost here.

You want to replace the kicker that WON the game in OT for us.
The kick did not go wide right or wide left or hit the upright and bounced away. It went through the middle of the uprights and we WON the game.

We WON the game on the field goal.

You want to crucify him because the Coach decided not to have him try one from 53 yards?

The man had been sick during the week passing kidney stones, probably didn't get in as much practice and may have been a just a tad weak.
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You need to learn to read posts, before responding to stuff that was never said or suggested.

I started this thread saying we needed to bring more kickers in TO TRY OUT. I never said, hey lets get a new kicker in here right now and whomever kicks the best takes Rackers spot immediately. I never said to replace Brown last year immediately either when he first started to struggle, but you can bet that I wanted other kickers to be looked at and possibly put on the team.

And what's funny is I heard these exact same things last season when some of us were suggesting to bring in some new kickers to try out and put on the roster possibly and people said NO WAY, we don't have the roster spots and we couldn't afford to do that. We ended up losing a playoff spot because of the lack of action though. I don't want to see something like that happen again, I'll learn from the mistakes of the past. I won't be okay with possibly repeating them.
 
infantrycak said:
Folks are really overplaying this Rackers can't hit long thing:

Rackers 19 of 39, 48.7% from over 50 yds.
Brown 18 of 33, 54.5% from over 50 yds.

So he has the leg but is marginally less accurate long. But then again he is almost 10% more accurate from 40-49 yes.



Believe I mentioned it was practice. In any event, being in the game doesn't make their legs weaker it makes their aim more shaky.
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Not what i'm insinuating. What i meant about him not having the leg was him not being able to boom it 50 plus & keep his great accuaracy......like most kickers for that matter. Besides, most kickers sacrifice 1 or the other depending on which they worry about the most.
 
If you want to bring in kickers to try out, then you dont like the kicker we have. Is that not the same as replacing the one we have????
 
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