Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

McNair to NFL: Overturn Cushing suspension

I finally just decided that I believe him. I originally knee jerked a little towards disgust and sadness that this guy who brought passion and respectability to the Texans defense wasn't real but I read, considered, decided (that he was most likely guilty I admit) and finally went on about my business. Then we saw the story come back with Bob McNair going to bat for Cushing, and after reading the newer information I had to rethink things. Upon further consideration I find myself leaning towards believing him and laying this lone positive test on a freaky body that doesn't produce the normal amount of hCg all the time. I can accept that possibility without much of a stretch of my imagination.

I've got a liver that cranks out elevated levels of a couple of enzymes that flag me in HIV and Hep tests. I have neither but eventually gave up donating blood because it always results in a scary letter (plus they throw my blood away, can't take a chance and I agree with that policy completely). Not everybody is the same and while this may be apple to oranges it is my experience and I can only look at this through my own eyes.

Firstly, that must have been the scariest thing in the world, when you found out about it.

Second up, you're around where I am. If Brian did take performance enhancers, then I'm pissed off at him, and I can't imagine having any of the feeling of pride watching him crack skulls like last year.

As a Texan though, Bob is still batting for him, Cushing is still fighting it, although a large portion of the media is taking the 'shut up and take your punishment, junkie' atittude. I hope he didn't do anything bad, but that said, if he did, he's gotta pay the penalty.
 
We're not talking about a steroid test though. This is a new type of test where its credibility is vulnerable to scrutiny of its process.

Exactly.

I still remain pessimistic. Unless this new "evidence" is overwelming and indisputable, and not subject to disagreement in the interpretation of the results among the various experts, I don't see him overturning it.
 
ok they why is Cushing serving his? Can we find a judge somewhere to put a moratorium on this...let me guess they are all Cowboy fans here.

Here's the story on that:

Kevin and Pat Williams, who are not related, along with three New Orleans Saints players, were suspended after testing positive for bumetanide, a diuretic contained in the weight-loss supplement StarCaps. Bumetanide is banned because it can be used as a masking agent for steroids.

Bumetanide was not listed as an ingredient on the StarCaps label, and the players' union claims that the NFL did not properly inform players that the banned substance was contained in the supplement.

The NFL has maintained that it rightfully suspended the players under the league's collective bargaining agreement, claiming that StarCaps was listed among products that players were banned from endorsing.

The St. Paul Pioneer Press reported that NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said in an e-mail the league would proceed with discovery yet remained "confident that we will prevail in this case based on the merits of our positions."

In a letter included in the court filings, Kevin and Pat Williams admitted they used StarCaps to help them make a prescribed weight, the Minneapolis Star Tribune reported. Both have a contract clause that pays a $400,000 bonus if they make a certain weight at several points during the season -- but the clause stipulates that the players not undertake any "last-minute weight reduction techniques," which included "use of diuretics."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3933023
 
Fact: Cushing was tested for steroids 23 times while at USC.

I'm going to predict right now that McNair will win this one. Look at the position Goodell is being put in: He has to defend the veracity of a relatively new test against its first guilty subject. The guilty party is bringing to the table a well-researched, professionally supported case of questions and variables that the NFL does not have empirically supported answers for.

Do you know what that opens up? 1) It is new science that isn't even supported or out there for the full medical community. Read my quote from PKs piece a few pages back from one of the foremost experts on this. 2) If he accepts this new science then every person who has issues with their test is going to cry this. In fact you could play Devil's Advocate and argue that it gives some guys a free pass to "mask" down the line because they can cry "over-training."

What will probably happen is that Goodell will table this info and say they need further research, etc to test its validity and that going forward they will have other doctors look at it. Considering what I've read from other doctors I don't think many are jumping on the "Overtaining" bandwagon at this time.

What a cheap drunk you are... I really wish I had that problem. :cowboy1:

LOL. Actually I'm not. But 4 large(18 oz) at BW will make me a little off and "a couple" just sounds better. And my example with all in fun, I haven't been in trouble for being wasted since kids....though I have had some times. :)
 
Last edited:
I think if this was Chris Johnson then we would see the skepticism level rise dramtically.

Cole said there are conditions that could trigger false positives in a man. The testicles could completely stop working -- as in a case of testicular cancer, or a disease called hypogonadotropism (which basically means the testicles stop working), or a hereditary disease called hCG syndrome -- resulting in more than normal hCG being produced in the body. Said Cole: "All these things are rare and remote. The honest truth is that 999 times out of a thousand, the test gives a correct result. If they're positive, they're taking hCG.''


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/08/10/mail/index.html?xid=cnnbin&hpt=Sbin

From HoustonFrog's link:

Well the doctor is saying that 999 out of thousand times the test gives a correct result. I think we're all in the boat, including Cushing, that we take the test as being accurate... we're just wondering/hoping/trying to find out WHY it came back like that.

Just for amusement let's say we are NOT convinced the test was accurate. So he states that 999 out of 1,000 times it's accurate which means 1 out of 1,000 times the test could produce false results.

Now going on the conservative basis of 53 players per active roster and there being 32 teams, that's 1,696 players in the NFL on an active roster at any given time. That's 1,696 players that we KNOW have been tested at least ONCE. This does not include an other players that have been cut/never made the active roster or a team/are on the practice squad... who all should have been tested as well.

So if the statistics are correct, with 1,696 players getting tested (meaning 1,696 tests being administered) that's 1.696 players that could find themselves receiving a false result. And that's only one test! These players are tested multiple times so this only increases the chances that a player could falsely test positive for this.

I'm not saying I believe the results were false... I'm just saying that based on the statistic that the "Expert" gave, it's completely viable that 1 person in the NFL could get a false result EACH TIME THEY GET TESTED. That's just due to the shear numbers of players getting tested.

Ole Miss Texan,

I've got to jump in here now. I've spent quite a bit of time speaking directly with Dr. Larry Cole within the last few months. He has the most internationally recognized and utilized HCG reference labaratory in the world. He is known as "Mr. HCG." He was kind enough to answer many questions about "male HCG" which he stated did not exist in a non pathologic condition (as he mentioned in his interview). False negative results are common. False positives are extremely rare. I can see that you have gone through a great deal of effort to make the point that "999 out of thousand times the test gives a correct result" is not all that uncommon. Your efforts are commendable. However, the premise of your calculations is somewhat flawed in that the 999 out of a thousand that Dr. Cole refers to is not of total players tested, but of the total players testing positive (which is a miniscule percentage to begin with). His comments should now place things in somewhat better perspective.

Since the Cushing decision, I've been in contact with some of the major players (including the NFL testing labs at UCLA and in Salt Lake City, Utah) in this whole NFL testing process, and have shared some of these findings, including official documents with Cak and TexansChick. There are many misconceptions running around the MB and elsewhere. In time, being sensitive to sources, I will try to share with you the benefits of some of these contacts.
 
Sounds like bias either way.

If Texans fans--the ones who actually take time to learn about the situation--aren't qualified to make a judgement then who is?

Of course there will be different opinions, but I don't think that just because we're fans of the Texans we can't look at what we know about the situation and attempt to take our own bias out of it.

Personally, I've gone back and forth on the issue...and in the end, I will never 'know'...

I go back and forth, as well, and to be honest, I'll admit a biased double-standard about this subject. It is a battle between the head and the heart, because I cannot 'trick' my brain into scenarios based upon pre-destined outcomes. But obviously, I'm a Texans fan so my heart is with our team and player.

As far as Texans fans being "qualified"...well, absolutely no offense to anyone, but we do have an actual doctor on the board, and his perspectives are the only ones that I really perceive as qualified in the medical aspects of this subject...speaking of which....

Ole Miss Texan,

I've got to jump in here now. I've spent quite a bit of time speaking directly with Dr. Larry Cole within the last few months. He has the most internationally recognized and utilized HCG reference labaratory in the world. He is known as "Mr. HCG." He was kind enough to answer many questions about "male HCG" which he stated did not exist in a non pathologic condition (as he mentioned in his interview). False negative results are common. False positives are extremely rare. I can see that you have gone through a great deal of effort to make the point that "999 out of thousand times the test gives a correct result" is not all that uncommon. Your efforts are commendable. However, the premise of your calculations is somewhat flawed in that the 999 out of a thousand that Dr. Cole refers to is not of total players tested, but of the total players testing positive (which is a miniscule percentage to begin with). His comments should now place things in somewhat better perspective.

Since the Cushing decision, I've been in contact with some of the major players (including the NFL testing labs at UCLA and in Salt Lake City, Utah) in this whole NFL testing process, and have shared some of these findings, including official documents with Cak and TexansChick. There are many misconceptions running around the MB and elsewhere. In time, being sensitive to sources, I will try to share with you the benefits of some of these contacts.

Thank you greatly for your educational posts, Doc. They have really helped to understand this matter much better than any sources in the media or the net in general. Your willingness to share your knowledge, understanding, and results of continued investigation is beyond awesome for what it brings to this board. :)
 
ok they why is Cushing serving his? Can we find a judge somewhere to put a moratorium on this...let me guess they are all Cowboy fans here.

More and more, I'm feeling that this might actually happen. I am starting to believe that Cushing might try to take this to court. I think that is one of the things that Bob went to talk to Godell about. <<< speculation, of course.


If it happens that way, I believ Cushing will make his case based on the NFL's testing policy, as it relates to hCG, and how the testing differs from the way other banned substances are tested.
I'm not saying he's right, but I am starting to feel like it might go that far.
 
Ole Miss Texan,

I've got to jump in here now. I've spent quite a bit of time speaking directly with Dr. Larry Cole within the last few months. He has the most internationally recognized and utilized HCG reference labaratory in the world. He is known as "Mr. HCG." He was kind enough to answer many questions about "male HCG" which he stated did not exist in a non pathologic condition (as he mentioned in his interview). False negative results are common. False positives are extremely rare. I can see that you have gone through a great deal of effort to make the point that "999 out of thousand times the test gives a correct result" is not all that uncommon. Your efforts are commendable. However, the premise of your calculations is somewhat flawed in that the 999 out of a thousand that Dr. Cole refers to is not of total players tested, but of the total players testing positive (which is a miniscule percentage to begin with). His comments should now place things in somewhat better perspective.

Since the Cushing decision, I've been in contact with some of the major players (including the NFL testing labs at UCLA and in Salt Lake City, Utah) in this whole NFL testing process, and have shared some of these findings, including official documents with Cak and TexansChick. There are many misconceptions running around the MB and elsewhere. In time, being sensitive to sources, I will try to share with you the benefits of some of these contacts.
Ah, excellent. Thanks for the clarification CND. That really seems to solidify the accuracy of the tests then. Hypothetically (for "easy" math) let's say 0.05% of the players tested, "fail" the hCG portion. If 2,000 players are tested, that's 1 person that "fails" or tests above the allowable levels. If the accuracy of the test is 999/1,000 that basically means if they test the players 1,000 times then 1... only 1 of the instances might have been due to an inaccurate reading. (right?) So that's basically 2,000,000 players tested or tests given!! That's also approximately every single player in the NFL getting tested twice a week for 10 years!? If that's the case then... sheesh! :choke:
 
The more I think about it, this is a valid legal point and seems to guarantee this this will end up in a court room if the suspension is not suspended.

Cushing is now aware of a medical condition which is in conflict with league rules and which can prevent him from employment as a professional football player if it reoccurs in the future. If this is not legally settled at this point in time, your point of mutual agreement may very well come into play in the future.

Is there a lawyer in the house.

This is based on BRIEF analysis. There are a couple questions there though.

1) Is it a disability under the ADA?

The determination of what constitutes a disability is made on a case by case basis.

WHO Definition according to Wiki:

Disabilities is an umbrella term, covering impairments, activity limitations, and participation restrictions. An impairment is a problem in body function or structure; an activity limitation is a difficulty encountered by an individual in executing a task or action; while a participation restriction is a problem experienced by an individual in involvement in life situations. Thus disability is a complex phenomenon, reflecting an interaction between features of a person’s body and features of the society in which he or she lives.

Official Definition was substantially broadened by ADA Amendments in force as of 1/1/2009.

http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/statutes/adaaa_notice.cfm

I believe it would be if you could show subtantial medical evidence to support.

2) Does the collective bargaining agreement waive the right to have a discrimination claim brought under a federal statute?

Penny v. United Parcel Serv., 128 F.3d 408 (6th Cir. 1997) (holding that "an employee whose only obligation to arbitrate is contained in a collective bargaining agreement retains the right to obtain a judicial determination of his rights under a statute such as the ADA"), unless there is an express waiver contained in the agreement.
 
Last edited:
...I just call b.s. That simple...
If you truly are innocent, what are you supposed to do? If this is a naturally occurring medical problem and you test positive a second time, what are you to do?

Now, let me take off on a tangent.

Do you think Cushing is really - and I mean REALLY - stupid?

He tested with elevated levels of hCG in September but only one of the two exceeded the threshold level. It would take a really stupid person to continue taking a banned substance, during the season, for two months, after being put on notice by the league office. And you think Cushing, with his family background, is that stupid?
 
:friends: Ok HouTxFan!!!! I didn't mean for there to be drama either. I noticed someone new in another post talking smack, thougth maybe it was something like that and they were adding neg rep for people!!! Welcome to the board. If anyone gives you any trouble, warn them: they will be POLLARDIZED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Pollardized! :handshake: I feel more welcome...and MUCH safer...already. :texflag:
 
Well, Big Ben has a 6 game suspension that can be reduced to 4. I'm pretty sure McNair wouldn't be taking the time to go to NYC if he didn't think that he can get it reduced. I would love to see them cut it to two games so he can be there for the Dallas game.
 
Last edited:
In search of an out, Cushing finds OAS
Tim Dahlberg is a national sports columnist for The Associated Press.

As excuses go, it's a step above "The dog ate my homework."

Good thing it's not a contest, though. Because as much as Brian Cushing tries, he can't beat cyclist Tyler Hamilton's claim a few years back that his imaginary twin was responsible for his positive blood doping tests.

Ah, busted athletes and their excuses. Who knew how creative they can be?

Barry Bonds says he thought it was just flaxseed oil. Roger Clemens claims the shots he was getting in his rear end were nutritional supplements.

Sprinter Justin Gatlin tells a story about a masseuse who may have added a little something extra to his rubdown.

And now Cushing says his positive test for a female fertility drug came about because he exercised too much.

That's right. Exercised too much.

The Houston Texans linebacker offered up that excuse Monday while somehow suppressing what had to be an overwhelming urge to giggle. That's OK, because a lot of other overworked athletes had to be doing some giggling themselves at just the thought of it.

According to Cushing's appeal of his four-game suspension for testing positive for a female fertility drug last year, he was the victim of something he called Overtrained Athlete Syndrome. Turns out it was simply a case of him working too hard for his own good.

"I think that's the final diagnosis we came up with," Cushing said, "and a lot of doctors have supported why this has happened."

Just who those doctors are, Cushing isn't saying. But Texans owner Bob McNair buys the story, so much so that he went to New York to ask NFL commissioner Roger Goodell to rescind the four-game suspension handed down to Cushing for his positive test.

Among those not buying it is Travis Tygart, who heads the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency, which administers drug testing for America's Olympic athletes.

"We're unaware of any basis in medical literature that supports this," Tygart said in a telephone interview.

Doping guys have to be skeptics, of course. They've heard all the stories, listened to all the excuses.

And in the end, one of three things almost always happens: The athlete wisens up, the athlete gives it up, or the athlete simply shuts up.

Count Manny Ramirez among the latter. The Dodgers outfielder was busted for using the same fertility drug that the NFL says Cushing used. But Manny being Manny, he has refused to talk about it — or almost anything else — ever since.

We can presume he wasn't trying to have a baby. But is it possible the dreadlocked one was a victim of OAS himself?

Hardly, as anyone who has ever watched Ramirez run after a fly ball can attest. Still, by the time Cushing is done fighting his one-man crusade against overexertion, he may wish he had clammed up just like his baseball counterpart.

The problem isn't that Cushing doth protest too much, though he surely does. It's that he expects Texans fans and the few other people who care about who tests positive for what in the NFL to take him at his word when he said he did nothing against the rules to win the AP Defensive Rookie of the Year award last season.

But if Cushing really wants to clear this up, why not release both the test results and his medical records? While he's at it, he can trot out some of the experts on OAS to talk about its side effects.

He won't because the bottom line is he got caught with HGC, or human chorionic gonadotropin, in his system. And the only known way — besides OAS, of course — HGC can get in a male's system is either by injection or tumors, which Cushing doesn't have.

What is known is that HGC can be injected at the end of a steroid cycle, when users are unable to produce much testosterone. It jumpstarts the process, and is commonly used in conjunction with steroids.

In Cushing's case, he tested positive at the beginning of his rookie season. You do the math, but the timing alone is almost as damaging as the fact HGC was in his body at all.

"If it sort of looks like a duck and smells like a duck, it's usually a duck," Tygart said.

Cushing isn't about to start quacking, but he better prepare himself to sit out the first four games of the season. McNair, meanwhile, needs to understand that as an owner in the NFL he shouldn't undermine the league's drug testing by questioning the results, no matter how desperate he is to see his star linebacker on the field when the Texans host Indianapolis on Sept. 12.

In the meantime, Cushing better hope he never gets busted by the league's doping investigators again.

Because the excuse about the imaginary twin has already been taken.



Sadly enough, the choice of the “Overtraining Athlete Syndrome” defense may very well have branded Cushing, the Texans, our owner and Texans fans as femininely hormonally afflicted. From here on out, you shouldn’t be too surprised if as you make it back to your seat during a game, you suddenly get hit by an opposing fan’s flying tampon.
 
In search of an out, Cushing finds OAS
Tim Dahlberg is a national sports columnist for The Associated Press.





Sadly enough, the choice of the “Overtraining Athlete Syndrome” defense may very well have branded Cushing, the Texans, our owner and Texans fans as femininely hormonally afflicted. From here on out, you shouldn’t be too surprised if as you make it back to your seat during a game, you suddenly get hit by an opposing fan’s flying tampon.


Any chance these babies get snuck into the stadium?

tampon+gun.jpg
 
Any chance these babies get snuck into the stadium?

tampon+gun.jpg

Chances are getting better every day.:facepalm:


Brian Cushing Battles “Overtrained Athlete Syndrome”; Inspires Millions

Everybody was so quick to throw Brian Cushing under the bus just because he looks like a roider, acts like a roider, failed an NFL drug test and lost his subsequent appeal. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty, people?

You see, it seems that Brian Cushing didn’t have an elevated level of hCG in his system because he was trying to cover up performance enhancing drug use. It turns out he is just a pregnant woman. No, no, I kid. Although elevated levels of hCG production is most commonly associated with female pregnancy, that is not the problem. It turns out that the misunderstood and maligned Cushing is actually a victim of “Overtrained Athlete’s Syndrom.”

It has been incredibly painful to watch this young man pilloried by the press just because he appears to be completely guilty of doping. But that is the way the world is today. A guy is dogged by steroid rumors for years and fails one teeny, tiny little drug test and suddenly everyone is calling him a cheater. Tsk, tsk.

The only silver lining here is that Cushing’s battle with OAS is sure to inspire millions of people in similar situations. Of course, it won’t do much for other athletes who have failed PED tests due to OAS because Cushing is the only one of those on the face of the Earth. But hopefully Cushing fighting the good fight will give hope to other people struggling with misunderstood syndromes. There are a lot of victims out there with syndromes that fester in the darkness while humanity turns a cold shoulder to their suffering.

Brian Cushing should be shining beacon of light to the victims of these horrible syndromes:

Coital Deprivation Syndrome (CDS) - CDS is one of the leading causes of forgotten anniversaries in the United States of America. CDS tears up homes and ruins families. On the plus side, CDS has the best cure of any known disease.

I Douche Syndrome (IDS) - IDS actually does a pretty good job of thinning out the herd, but unfortunately it also takes out a lot of innocent bystanders. IDS is the result of a chemical imbalance that forces its victims to use any number of mobile phone applications at all times. So the next time you are mashing on your horn and screaming bloody murder at some d-bag who made you miss a red light because he just had to update his status after seeing a guy who looked exactly like “A Man Called Hawk” in the car next to him, remember that you are harassing a sick person.

Chronic Auto-Erotic Discharge Syndrome (CAD) - CAD is one of the most serious threats facing the American workforce today. CAD has an adverse affect on a worker’s efficiency and some estimates claim as high as 65% of all work place tardiness is caused by CAD. CAD often strikes in the morning just before the workday begins. Usually in the shower.

Cowboys Pipe Riding Syndrome (CPRS) - CPRS is a very common disease in males 7-90 across the United States. The syndrome is particularly prevalent in North and Central Texas. Symptoms include, and are limited to, thinking that the Dallas Cowboys are the hands down favorite to win the Super Bowl every single year no matter who is on the team. To the victims, the delusions feel absolutely real. The NFL postseason consistently puts the disease into remission, but CPRS is completely incurable.

That Éclair Was Going To Go Bad Just Sitting There So I Had No Choice But To Eat It Syndrome (TEWGTGBJSTSIHNCBTEIS) - TEWGTGBJSTSIHNCBTEIS is the antithesis of OAS in every way, from its incredibly long acronym to the obesity it causes. Often mistaken for acute laziness and total indifference to dietary hygiene, TEWGTGBJSTSIHNCBTEIS is actually an obsessive compulsive disorder causing victims to stuff their faces with any food left unguarded in the break room refrigerator for more than two hours. Writing your name on your lunch won’t save you from them.

Hopefully, the victims of these various maladies will be able to draw strength from Brian Cushing. There is no reason they should be forced to accept accountability for their shortcomings when they can point a finger at a perfectly good syndrome.
 
Sadly enough, the choice of the “Overtraining Athlete Syndrome” defense may very well have branded Cushing as femininely hormonally afflicted
Yeah but you know what they say. Never question another man's manlihood especially when the man in question could rip your arms off. :choke:
 
Big Ben and Cushing are apples and oranges. The Commish has no authority to reduce Cushings suspension. the NFL CBA with the players dictates the punishment and it is absolute.

The Commish has ultimate authority in Player Conduct.
 
Did the williamses serve their suspension?

Theirs is dragging out because in Minnesota, it is illegal to use drug testing on the job. They are paid in Minnesota, hence the longer than usual hold out time and why it is now in Federal court.

I'm pretty sure that's what I heard on that today
 
Well, Big Ben has a 6 game suspension that can be reduced to 4. I'm pretty sure if McNair wouldn't be taking the time to go to NYC if he didn't think that he can get it reduced. I would love to see them cut it to two games so he can be there for the Dallas game.

The difference is that when Ben was put on suspension the commissioner said that the suspension would be 4 - 6 weeks pending how he did with programs related to his actions.

Cushing got 4 for violating substance policy with no real leeway to get the suspension reduced. I would find it extremely surprising if his suspension was reduced in any way without lawyers and judges being involved (think the Williams case).
 
Originally posted by CloaknnndaggerCowboys Pipe Riding Syndrome (CPRS) - CPRS is a very common disease in males 7-90 across the United States. The syndrome is particularly prevalent in North and Central Texas. Symptoms include, and are limited to, thinking that the Dallas Cowboys are the hands down favorite to win the Super Bowl every single year no matter who is on the team. To the victims, the delusions feel absolutely real. The NFL postseason consistently puts the disease into remission, but CPRS is completely incurable.

I would like to add to this.

CPRS also includes the ability to think Cowboys players are the best ever at their position. Urges include: The need to wear other teams gear once the Cowboys are eliminated " Shout Howbout them Cowboys" at inappropriate times like funerals, weddings, court appearances and the occasional slip up during intimate occasions. Those affected by CPRS do not know they have the syndrome and any attempt at intervention will be difficult, so be careful and give them room because they often travel in packs.
 
Totally agree with you, and a very nice write up!

Thanks JB. As many of you know I have been on the "what are the facts?" bandwagon since this began. I'm not on the "Cushing is innocent." wagon. I'm on just "There aren't enough facts to have a valid opinion." wagon and I'll ride it until the wheels fall off because accusations are just that. It doesn't make them false. I just don't think it's fair to anyone to have literally hundreds of stories written about them that are backed up by fact but are presented as such. It's flat our slander and it's one more reason that I support this organization whole heartedly.
 
Peter King recently wrote an article about Brian Cushing in which he refers to an hCG expert. The problem is Peter King’s hCG expert misses the point completely.

I'm getting so sick of these inaccurate "news" articles. I know, I know, it's just sports, but they are screwing with someone's career here. It's slander and I'm sick of it.

This was all discussed a page earlier by CnD and others. Nothing the guy said was wrong. He said that most of the results are correct AND that most of them are from being injected. They then point out the few, rare instances of it not being injected. As CnD pointed out, most players don't test positive, so the 999 out of a 1000 is for the rare positive result, thus knocking the percentages down further. I think the point may be missed in this instance. I'm not saying this as an indictment but the doctor is just explaining the percentages....very, very small percentages.
 
Last edited:
Thanks JB. As many of you know I have been on the "what are the facts?" bandwagon since this began. I'm not on the "Cushing is innocent." wagon. I'm on just "There aren't enough facts to have a valid opinion." wagon and I'll ride it until the wheels fall off because accusations are just that. It doesn't make them false. I just don't think it's fair to anyone to have literally hundreds of stories written about them that are backed up by fact but are notpresented as such. It's flat our slander and it's one more reason that I support this organization whole heartedly.

Barrett, I totally am with ya on what you are saying, but your fingers were flying a little fast and you left out one key word. The one thing that is never mentioned (or not enough), is that Cushing is the only player ever to be tested positive for hcg. And if they would not have lowered the baseline last year, he would not have tested positive.

So many people always comment on the fact that he works out harder than anybody they have ever seen. So, why is it that he has to be on 'roids, and taking a masking agent, hcg (which it is not), and cheating the game of football?

I agree that his comments do not help him, because they sound pretty far-fetched, but I choose to believe that is because he does not want to lie to people. I truly believe that he was told he has a variation of, or something similar to, OTS (or whatever the hell they caliing it).


I'm a homer, and I'm proud of it!

:texflag::fans:
 
Thanks JB. As many of you know I have been on the "what are the facts?" bandwagon since this began. I'm not on the "Cushing is innocent." wagon. I'm on just "There aren't enough facts to have a valid opinion." wagon and I'll ride it until the wheels fall off because accusations are just that. It doesn't make them false. I just don't think it's fair to anyone to have literally hundreds of stories written about them that are backed up by fact but are presented as such. It's flat our slander and it's one more reason that I support this organization whole heartedly.

That road goes both ways. Where are Cushing's experts in the medical field coming forth to substantiate his claims? The entire medical profession that has come forth publicly directly opposes his claims, especially the condition and symptoms of 'overtrained athlete syndrome'. At this point, there is no credible evidence from Cushing's side to support his claims, and unless an educated and respected opinion comes forth to put their repuation on the line with hard data, it just sounds like he's grasping for straws to the general public and media.

And the reason the media keeps writing about it is because Cushing and the Texans are keeping the story in the spotlight. So there can't be any griping about stories being written when the subject is perpetuated by Cushing himself.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt because he's a Houston Texan, but I'm not going to deny that my Spidey sense is going off like crazy with this story. I don't want to believe that his side is being disingenuous, but I can understand why many folks perceive it that way at this point in time.
 
Maybe it's just me, but has anyone else thought that the "overtrained athlete syndrome" might be a cover-up? Maybe he has a problem with his "package" and doesn't want to public to find out what it is? Maybe I'm just spit-ballin here? Or maybe I'm just hoping McNair didn't go all the way to NY to drop the "overtrained athlete syndrome" bull-butter on Goodell?
 
Maybe it's just me, but has anyone else thought that the "overtrained athlete syndrome" might be a cover-up? Maybe he has a problem with his "package" and doesn't want to public to find out what it is? Maybe I'm just spit-ballin here? Or maybe I'm just hoping McNair didn't go all the way to NY to drop the "overtrained athlete syndrome" bull-butter on Goodell?

I can't get myself to believe that that is what they really took to NY. McNair took a lot of medical info, and said he met with the NFL's medical staff for quite awhile, and the staff was going to further review the info. Perhaps Cushing was trying to put a complicated diagnosis into layman's terms or the closest he could come to it.
 
That road goes both ways. Where are Cushing's experts in the medical field coming forth to substantiate his claims? The entire medical profession that has come forth publicly directly opposes his claims, especially the condition and symptoms of 'overtrained athlete syndrome'. At this point, there is no credible evidence from Cushing's side to support his claims, and unless an educated and respected opinion comes forth to put their repuation on the line with hard data, it just sounds like he's grasping for straws to the general public and media.

And the reason the media keeps writing about it is because Cushing and the Texans are keeping the story in the spotlight. So there can't be any griping about stories being written when the subject is perpetuated by Cushing himself.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt because he's a Houston Texan, but I'm not going to deny that my Spidey sense is going off like crazy with this story. I don't want to believe that his side is being disingenuous, but I can understand why many folks perceive it that way at this point in time.

my beer intincts tell me this concoction is out of balance, over the top with adjuncts which is going to leave a bitter taste in everyones mouth :beerfunnel:
 
Well, I'd have to believe it'd be before week 1.

I reckon if he was feeling dickish and thought this whole OAS was idiotic, he could give his ruling after the Raiders game.


This is one of the things I don't like about the office Goodell holds.

What "if" he did have it in for a particular player or team? I'm not saying he does, and really don't get a feeling it applies here, but shouldn't these types of things that can have appeals turned down, etc... be handled by a committee, rather than an individual? It's not like Goodell owns the NFL. Too much power for one person in a big buisiness product that is professional sports.
 
This is one of the things I don't like about the office Goodell holds.

What "if" he did have it in for a particular player or team? I'm not saying he does, and really don't get a feeling it applies here, but shouldn't these types of things that can have appeals turned down, etc... be handled by a committee, rather than an individual? It's not like Goodell owns the NFL. Too much power for one person in a big buisiness product that is professional sports.

In practically every public decision he's made he has referred to other people. Whether it be Doctors, Police, Lawyers, etc.
 
Has noone here ever heard of overtraining, or being an overtrained athlete? It has serious symptoms and side-effects that you wouldn't expect. It's a real "state" (if it isn't technically a medical condition) where your body starts doing weird things. Anyone that has any experience bodybuilding should know about it.
 
Has noone here ever heard of overtraining, or being an overtrained athlete? It has serious symptoms and side-effects that you wouldn't expect. It's a real "state" (if it isn't technically a medical condition) where your body starts doing weird things. Anyone that has any experience bodybuilding should know about it.

I think we've all hear of overtraining. It's just Cushing didn't appear to be suffering from any of the normal symptoms of overtraining. The dude was a beast on the field every day.

I'm sure practically athlete who's lifted weights for a long period of time or trained for a particular sport has suffered from overtraining. I have, but wasn't playing ball at the time and could afford taking the time off to get right.
 
Has noone here ever heard of overtraining, or being an overtrained athlete? It has serious symptoms and side-effects that you wouldn't expect. It's a real "state" (if it isn't technically a medical condition) where your body starts doing weird things. Anyone that has any experience bodybuilding should know about it.

Well according to Dr. First (sp?) on 610 this morning, he nor any of his colleagues whose opinion he respects, have ever heard of it as a "syndrome" so to speak. He likens it to being a "miracle" discovery if whatever cush & his people are trying to push is true. but, you can also tell he's biased about the whole ordeal anyway for what its worth..........can't say i blame him though.
 
I think we've all hear of overtraining. It's just Cushing didn't appear to be suffering from any of the normal symptoms of overtraining. The dude was a beast on the field every day.

I'm sure practically athlete who's lifted weights for a long period of time or trained for a particular sport has suffered from overtraining. I have, but wasn't playing ball at the time and could afford taking the time off to get right.

The thing is, in some of the more modern lifting regimens, there's a planned use of the overtraining effect. If you push yourself into an overtrained state and then follow that with a strategic deload, you get all sorts of hormonal rebound effects. I don't know that those rebound effects have been fully studied.

I would not be surprised if Cush wasn't using a similar sort of routine (although such a routine would have been antithetical to Ray Wright.)

Gawd. I'd love to know the actual arguments and evidence.
 
Well according to Dr. First (sp?) on 610 this morning, he nor any of his colleagues whose opinion he respects, have ever heard of it as a "syndrome" so to speak. He likens it to being a "miracle" discovery if whatever cush & his people are trying to push is true. but, you can also tell he's biased about the whole ordeal anyway for what its worth..........can't say i blame him though.

I'll just say this.

According to doctors, using steroids provides no benefit whatsoever. They don't make you bigger, faster, or stronger. They studied it. They knew all about it.

This was in the 50's. When bodybuilders and strength athletes were first starting to experiment with steroids. And the doctors of the time said that the stuff wouldn't work.

Of course, in their studies, they were using such low doses of steroids that they were right. There was no effect at that level but lifters were using steroids at over 10-15 times the amount.

Now, there may not be an actual "syndrome" that's been studied and named for being overtrained. BUT... if a doctor expects an athlete or the owner of a sports franchise who is not doctor to use medical terms exactly, then he needs to broaden his horizons a little bit. Overtraining is well known. There have been some (not enough) studies of it.

This reminds me of a famous doctor that my wife worked with back in the late 80's. He refused to call a word processing program an "editor" because an "editor" is a person who looks over your manuscript after you're done with it. He corrected everyone who talked about a text editor and informed them that they were using the word incorrectly.
 
Back
Top