Excellent points, Scooter [must spread rep, yada, yada...]
Unfortunately, they all fall on deaf ears. See, some of the earlier posters were right; this thread should have ended long ago or never been started. The self-proclaim "Soapers" have their minds made up. No logical discussion brought to the board in good faith will sway them.
The man made excellent arguments and the next response was "...to toss a cup of bullshit juice all over your long post".
Real classy...
Y'all don't want discussion.
Y'all just want to vent.
...disappointing.
Go Texans
What are you talking about. Most of us here who are on the other side of things have laid out point by point FACTS compared to made up future possibilities and yet they get skipped because people only want to see what they want to see.....something good in the future, despite the 4 years. I can post them again just so we can press "end" and you know they are out there.
1) Kubiak is 1-5 in the division. He has never sniffed having a winning division season.
2) Out of Kubiak's 29 wins, only 7 have been against winning teams.
3) Having players that like you doesn't make you a good coach. In fact most coaches that have been successful have been ones who can get the most out of a team while still maintaining the distance and fear they need to get respect..Lombardi, Knoll, Landry, Parcells, Bilechick, Jimmy Johnson, etc. Players don't need a BFF. This point also works against Kubiak. Players have loved the guy for 4 years yet they can't seem to win games for him and they keep making the same mistakes. How has liking him worked out?
4) Losing is losing. You are what your record is. I don't care if you lose by 7 or 30, it is still a loss. It is amazing that people support Kubes and point to more talent, a better offense and a better defense. Yet with all of that, they are at 6-7 after 13 games for the 3rd year straight. That is coaching. (just like I thought the Rams win was pathetic and uninspiring but in the end it was a "W" and 20 years from now you see "W"s and "Ls")
5)Injuries happen. It is why you drafted Casey and have Driessen. Look at the Colts when they played us:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/091201&sportCat=nfl
"With Bob Sanders and Marlin Jackson out for the season, and Dwight Freeney missing the contest with an injury, the Colts' defense started no one drafted higher than the third round. Big plays were made by Colts defensive starters Gary Brackett, Daniel Muir, Melvin Bullitt and Jacob Lacey, all of whom were undrafted free agents. Pierre Garçon, out of Division III Mount Union, caught a touchdown pass. Chad Simpson, undrafted out of Division I-AA Morgan State, scored a touchdown, breaking three tackles when Houston players tried to strip the ball. Robert Mathis, a low draft pick out of Division I-AA Alabama A&M, not only stripped Matt Schaub of the ball to set up the game-icing touchdown, he did so while being held by the Moo Cows' offensive line. I don't know what's in the water in Indiana, but it seems to turn unknowns into football players."
6) People accept mediocre. Their standard of success if deplorable. People hate the Cowboys, yet their standard is playoffs and SB. It is why Wade is on the hot seat. Most NFL teams have that same standard. Even the Jets with a rookie QB and new coach expect success because of their talent. Yet here people think 4 years of looking better and having .500 results is awesome. They act like Kubiak walks on water. Chan Gailey went to the playoffs as a coach. People here need to shoot higher. Bill Maas said he was on the Cheifs when they couldn't get over the hump. He said they were just like the Texans. They then got Marty in he said they learned that there was discipline to things they didn't even know about. That is this situation. Baltimore, Atlanta, Miami all turned it around. Changing coaches doesn't have to equal rebuilding again.
7) As for Scotters arguments...
instant offense - Yes, the offense is improved and the team is still at .500
improvement - Yes, everyone seems to agree that there is improvement yet the team is still at.500
building from the inside out -And where are the sacks?
potential - One of the dirtiest words in sports. Ask any coach.
developement - guys like Amobi and who?Our RBs who have taken a step back.
competitiveness - really?A team that can't win the big ones and still falls short in big games?
consistancy - So losing one week, winning the next and never puitting two good halves together is consistency?
All of the arguments but 1 in #7 above are talking points, not facts. The only one that is substantial and can be proven is the offense being better. The rest are talking points for next year and have been the same for 4 years. That is most of our points....you can add up all his arguments, even if you believe them..and yet they still end at the same road...500. That leads to one person...coach.
With all of this said, I won't comment anymore. I just wanted to show you that these arguments have been out there and they contradict alot of what I'm hearing in the other camp. But to each their own.