P
Polo
Guest
Agreed. Then again, I think that pretty much every coach has/or should have some heat under their seat if they did not participate in the Superbowl.
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Kubes on the hotseat????
- Thread starter jshabang
- Start date
Agreed. Then again, I think that pretty much every coach has/or should have some heat under their seat if they did not participate in the Superbowl.
Mr. White
Retired OLine Coach
I guess I can sum up all my posts in this thread by agreeing with this sentiment. I don't want the guy fired either. I just want the organization to hold the coaches and players accountable like 90% of the rest of the NFL does.
I guess the "hot seat" means different things to different people. To me it means, if a team regresses next year, then the coach is out.
GP
Go Texans!
Hmmm...you think that Capers team that beat the Panthers and took the Patriots to OT was a good Texans team? I don't.
Flukes happen. Teams sleep on their opponent...it happened to us against the Raiders last season (we are better than the Raiders, but we looked awful).
We beat the Dolphins, and they made the playoffs (to continue down this track of "Hey, we beat the Panthers and the Pats that one year") but yet we almost didn't beat the Dolphins because they gave us too much time on the clock, because a RS defense has that famous "bend but don't break" philosophy which allows unfettered yardage between the 20s, and it was only a miracle grab by AJ on 4th down (IIRC) that even gave us a chance to win it. So, that whole game is a real enigma in terms of determining who was better: The Texans or the Dolphins. I'd state that the Texans are the better team, at the end of the day. With the Dolphins benefitting from what I see as being a pretty favorable schedule (I'm not going to go back over their schedule because I did it the NFL section a long time ago).
I want to see what Sporano does THIS season. I expect them to have a bit of a dip in their win total. I think a lot of teams overlooked them, and I think their opponents were weak (even the Patriots because they lost Brady).
OK, OK....here's their schedule from 2008:
week 1: Jets 20 ; Fins 9 (That was an awesome Jets team this year. Not.)
week 2: Fins 10 ; Cards 31 (Well, well, well...no question here, eh?)
week 3: Fins 38 ; Pats 13 (I give the Fins partial credit for the win)
week 4: bye
week 5: Chargers 10 ; Fins 17 (Two big wins in a row. Not too shabby.)
week 6: Fins 28 ; Texans 29 (If they're better, they should've handled us)
week 7: Ravens 27 ; Fins 13 (The better team won)
week 8: Bills 16 ; Fins 25 (It's a win, but it's against the Canada Bills)
week 9: Fins 26 ; Broncs 17 (Bad year for the Broncos, due to defense)
week 10: Seahawks 19 ; Fins 21 (They beat the mighty 'Hawks by 2)
week 11: Raiders 15 ; Fins 17 (Another nail-biter against a poor team)
week 12: Pats 48 ; Fins 28 (That's a better picture of the Fins)
week 13: Fins 16 ; Rams 12 (Wow. Look at the offensive explosion!)
week 14: Fins 16 ; Bills 3 (Sheesh, it actually got WORSE...)
week 15: 49ers 9 ; Fins 14 (Yawn...)
week 16: Fins 38 ; KC 31 (One of Herm's last rodeos)
week 17: Fins 24 ; Jets 17 (Didn't this game feature Favre's famous "If we win we win, if not...no big deal. I hope it works out. FALSE RETIREMENT on three! One, two , three...") Regardless, Favre was busy being a washed up QB trying to do what he obviously cannot do anymore, which is overcome incredibly dumb interceptions with a few miracle tosses to bail his team out. The interception monster won that day. 1 TD ; 3 INT with the last INT on a do-or-die drive for Favre. Again.
The Dolphins made the playoffs. I mean, seriously...can you look at that season and those opponents and their quick exit in round 1, and say that the Dolphins were a better team?
I'd take THIS team, and it's key personnel (Rick Smith and Kubiak) over the Dolphins every time I get the chance. Because I don't buy the Dolphins' chances at long-term success and repeated seasonal performances in terms of consistency and reliability. In short: It was a fluke, and the record and playoff performance is in no shape or form a true indicator of where that team IS and where they are headed.
I think the Dolphins present a pretty good example of what some people on here are talking about when they say "It's not all about the record, or playoffs."
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So GP,
Can you explain why in the same post you say:
1) The Texams lost to the Raiders because flukes happen.
2) The Dolphins lost to the Texans because the Texans are better.
Why not switch the two? Ok, that isn't realistic because the Raiders were really bad.
Why not say the Texans win over the Dolphins was a fluke? That isn't that far fetched.
If the answer boils down to, "because I'm a Texan fan" that's fine. However, that slant doesn't mean much when trying to build a chain of logic why the Dolphins are a flash in the pan and the Texans have better org/team.
Can you explain why in the same post you say:
1) The Texams lost to the Raiders because flukes happen.
2) The Dolphins lost to the Texans because the Texans are better.
Why not switch the two? Ok, that isn't realistic because the Raiders were really bad.
Why not say the Texans win over the Dolphins was a fluke? That isn't that far fetched.
If the answer boils down to, "because I'm a Texan fan" that's fine. However, that slant doesn't mean much when trying to build a chain of logic why the Dolphins are a flash in the pan and the Texans have better org/team.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
How can you call the Phins a flash in the pan and say that the Texans were a better team, but they had a better record and went to the playoffs. SOrry, but they out played us for the season and they had been in much worse shape than what we had been in before last season. They simply turned their team around a lot faster. They brought in a QB that had been in the playoffs twice already and made it for his 3rd time. Pennington had an MVP type of season last year with garbage at WR's. Their RB's weren't great either. They just had a very well balanced team and their coaches did a great job. They won the division over the Patriots and and also had a pretty good Jets team in their as well. Their schedule wasn't as weak as you are trying to make it out to be.
With all of that being said, I think the Texans will be better team than them this year, but I won't be surprised if their not after what they did last season. As long as Pennington stays healthy, they'll be a pretty competitive team. Parcells has turned the attitude of that franchise around completely and he knows how to build winners. I won't count out the Dolphins, but I don't think they'll make the playoffs with Brady coming back. I expect the Pats to have the best record in the AFC again this season with Brady healthy.
The Texans don't need to worry about the Dolphins. They need to worry about the Colts, Titans, and Jags and winning our division.
Did I say that?
The answer is: NO
Exactly. I'd rep you if the system would let me.
GP
Go Texans!
Well, everyone wants the playoffs. And/or a better record. So let's look at what one of those looks like, shall we? Not every team that's in the playoffs is in the playoffs because they are all that special...I mean, it's pretty ignorant to pretend that each playoff team is really THAT much better than the next team below it. You can win your crappy division and get into the playoffs, but still be a worse team than a few who were better but missed the playoffs on a tie-breaker, etc.
'08 Dolphins, IMO, show that a team with a good record and a playoff berth is not necessarily all that wonderful. We should have put the Dolphins away that game, but we let them back in it (especially our stupid defense). By the last half of the season, runner, you and I both know that Frank Bush is on record with a fan [here on this board] saying that he and Kubiak handcuffed Richard Smith and basically had some minor form of a shadow government running the defense for the remainder of games...as well as Kubiak admitting that he needed to let Kyle run the offense, which it looks like Kyle was free to call games in the last part of the season. I watched every game. I DVR'd the games. That Texans team in the last half of the season was a different beast than the bunny rabbit that it was in the first half of the season.
Our whole team got on a roll--But the Oak game was not the norm for the Texans down the stretch...everything was out of sync.
Had Kubiak canned Richard Smith in the previous off-season, and had Kubiak allowed Kyle to run the O, I think things would have been marginally better. I don't think it wins us those first few games at the start of the '08 season, but I think it might have cut the losses down right around the middle part of the schedule before we got on that roll.
The part about us beating the Fins was sarcasm, as in "If the Fins are better, and we're going on records and such, then why didn't they beat us?" Answer: Because the Fins benefitted from an easier schedule and the under-the-radar effect of who they were the year before.
No teams sleep on us, I assure you. That was the case in the Capers era and the first year of Kubiak's era. The Dolphins lost their first two games of the '08 season, so how many teams you think really prepared for them after those first two losses? I'm betting that each team the Dolphins faced, for at least the next 4 or 5 games, had early dismissal during the week of prepping for the Dolphins. They won one game the year before and had a new coach, and teams SLEPT on them. Then they had a freaking cake-walk of a schedule there at the end, until the Pats finally decided to wake up and play them like they should have all along. 49ers, Seahawks, Rams, Raiders, Chiefs, Bills (twice!)...that's an easy 7 wins right there. But hell, they couldn't even beat the Chiefs who were a laughing stock in '08.
Now let's see what we can do with an easy schedule. We ought to make the playoffs like the Fins did, and even if we did...would we get very far? I don't think we would. It's possible, but I think we're still a season or two away from being a true playoff team who can challenge deep into the playoffs.
Is that we are striving for? A one-and-done playoff appearance to satisfy our thirsts? Fun.
The day of the first playoff game: "Yippee! We're in the playoffs. Boo-ya!"
Later that day: "#$%@! I can't believe this garbage I'm watching! Oh well, at least we made it to the playoffs."
And Kubiak saves his job, I suppose, based on the logic that's being put forth.
It don't mean a thang if you ain't got that zing. Doo whop, doo whop.
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JCTexan
Hall of Fame
I have made the same argument, but with the Cardinals. They went to the superbowl, despite going 9-7 in the regular season with one of the easiest schedules. They won all six of their division games (SF, Stl, Sea, all had top ten picks in the draft), and went 3-7 against the rest of the NFL. If Houston was in their division they would have easily had a winning record. The record can't be everything, because Houston had the same record as the Chargers who made the playoffs, and even if the Texans beat Oakland & had the same record as Arizona they would have been out of the playoffs. Sometimes it matters what division you're in & how teams inside your division play.
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CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I have inside information that McNair has officially put Kubiak on Super Secret Double-Probation
GP
Go Texans!
You tell me which team you think is better, in terms of overall talent and off-season and drafting, excluding the records that are you guys' idols around here: Texans or Dolphins?
This is not an exercise in homer'ing. This is about watching the game of football and deciding which team is better on the field. You would take Chad Pennington, who has layers of knee braces and floats balls down the field, and that stupid Wildcat offense, over Matt Schaub, who I don't think is wearing any braces on any appendages yet, and our WCO with all our RBs and TE and WRs?
I think some of you have fallen into a reverse-psychology mode here. "If I refuse to believe this team might be good, maybe they will be good."
LOL. Just looking at the two teams, there is abso-freaking-lutely no way I think the Miami Dolphins are better than the Texans.
GP
Go Texans!
Uh oh. Somebody understands what I am saying.
And can articulate it, too. Maybe even better than I did.
Rep your way.
We aren't comparing one playoff season to a string of playoff seasons. We are comparing one to none.
1 > 0
But wait! There is a variable. If I remember my algebra correctly...
1 ? 0 + (hopes, wishes, and projections of playoff success)
1 ? 0 + 0
1 ? 0
1 > 0
There. I showed my work.
1 > 0
But wait! There is a variable. If I remember my algebra correctly...
1 ? 0 + (hopes, wishes, and projections of playoff success)
1 ? 0 + 0
1 ? 0
1 > 0
There. I showed my work.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
First off you're forgetting about one big thing. THE QB POSITION. That is what seperated us from the Dolphins. Pennington was pretty much an MVP candidate and we had a very inconsistent Schaub early on and then we had the Rosencopter episodes. Miami had much better QB play than us, and a much better defense than what we had all season long.
Just because we beat the Dolphins by some Andre johnson heroic catches, doesn't mean we were better than them. Sorry, but you keep acting like they played this pony schedule and that simply is not true. They played quite a few competitive teams and their division had an 11-5 team and a Jets team that was one game away from the playoffs as well. They played better and more efficient than we did throughout the season and their record is proof of that.
Hopefully we can make the playoffs this season. I think that we should. If we do and we're hot going into the playoffs with most of our team healthy than we just might be able to make a run. You never know. No one expected the Cards to but they got hot at the right time. The Cards were just a streaky team last season. THe Cards were lights out the best offense for about 6 or 7 weeks, and then they fell off at the end of the season for about 3 to 4 weeks. Then all of a sudden right as the playoffs started they sizzled and got right back on that hot streak again and their offense started clicking again even without Bolden. And their defense started making all kinds of plays in the post season. If the Texans make the playoffs they can possibly go deep, it just depends on how hot of a team they are at the time, and what kinds of early match ups they get.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
What is the difference between the Chargers season, and the Texans last year, though? They went to the playoffs with the exact same record as Houston did. Or what's the difference between Arizona's and Houston's? If Houston beat Oakland they would have had the same record as Arizona who went to the superbowl, and still would have missed the playoffs. Can you compare their seasons even though they made the playoffs to Houston's who had the same record?
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
You guys are arguing different points using the same terminology. The point that GP is making is that the Texans have a higher ceiling and in terms of potential and value apart from all the external variables that affect production are a more talented team with greater ability for near future achievement.
You are arguing that the Texans have been less productive than the Dolphins and have failed to meet your criteria neccessary for them to be called "good" or "better than".
Both of you are right. However, I think many of you arguing the second part refuse to listen to the first argument out of fear, bitterness, or some other emotional turmoil that years of losing have caused you. It seems a little early to be setting up defense mechanisms for the '09 season. Heck, I don't think I did that until we were 3-7 last year.. and, I'm fine now!
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Is Pennington a better QB than Matt Schaub? Well there is nothing at all to suggest that Schaub is or ever has been better. Before we can even make the comparison, hell we have to see if Schaub can even play a full season. You want to talk about knee braces and all that jiz, but Pennington has led two fairly talented Jets teams to the post season twice and then took a nothing Dolphins team on his back last season where he didn't even get to attend training camp and led them to a post season appearance after a 1-15 season.
Right now Schaub isn't even allowed to be compared to any Qb that has done that in his career because in Schaub's career the facts are that he's been a back up under the likes of Mike Vick and since he became a starter in Houston he hasn't managed to stay on the field. So Pennington pretty much blown Schaub out of the water in that regard. No Schaub is not a better QB. No QB that's only been a starter for two seasons and been hurt for practically half of both of them could be compared to a QB that was just an MVP candidate and 3 post season appearances. Sorry, but that's absolutely ridiculous.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Perfect example of what I was talking about!
Carson Palmer hasn't won a playoff game and has missed a lot of time due to injury, perhaps Pennington is better than Palmer as well?
Or, perhaps Gale Sayers, Bo Jackson can't be compared favorably to Warrick Dunn because they missed so much time due to injury. For someone to see them play and say they are good would be crazy! After all, how can they be good and then get injured too?
I have two answers for this:
1) This is why record is important. They didn't beat Oakland.
2) If number 1 doesn't fly, I can play the same game: if the Titans lose the second game against the Titans they are 7-9 yada yada yada. Spin goes both ways.
drewmar74
disgruntled
Hey - thanks for the psychoanalysis! I think your assumptions about what is "wrong" with me are incorrect though. Setting up defense mechanisms about the Texans record? Please.
I would ask what you think is mentally wrong with the people who argue the first part and refuse to listen to the second part. I think I know the answer though - as true believers they are inherently "right".
=============================
Many people are telling me what I am missing and what I don't understand. What I think is that the Texans have shown some continuous improvement - I have never said they haven't. They might continue to improve. Here is my heresy though - I also see that they might not. The longer the process takes, the more likely an Andre Johnson, Matt Schaub, Mario Williams, etc. becomes a step slower, injured badly, whatever. There are subtractions as well as additions each year.
===============================
What I find amazing is how much people can spin records and numbers and beliefs to prove that the Texans are more successful than other teams that were, well, more successful. Does anyone truly believe that the Texans were more successful than the Cardinals last year?
===============================
Which would you prefer next year:
A) The same improvement as last year, a 10-6 record, no play-offs, and a future that no one really knows.
B) Career years from Dunta, Schaub, and Okoye that may or not be one year flashes in the pan, a 12-4 record, a trip to the conference finals, and a future no one really knows.
I'll take B, because I accept that my hopes and projections for the future aren't necessarily reality.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
just because a player plays on the Texans doesn't make them automatically better. the dolphins have just as much talent as the Texans. you know why i know that? BECAUSE THEY WON MORE GAMES CONSISTENTLY AND MADE THE PLAYOFFS!! it's not open for debate either. we were better than them one sunday when we faced head to head and we pulled out that game. goody freaking two shoes. The Dolphins won more games than us and made the playoffs....just because you know our team more and are more familiar with our players does NOT make them better.
Texans were better than the Dolphins on one sunday. The Dolphins were better than the Texans over the course of an entire season. The season is all that matters. Playing well for a week or two or pulling a game out of your rear doesn't make you better. it just doesn't no matter.
It's no surprise that the Sunshine Club is mostly comprised of the same champions of losing football that made excuse after excuse for David Carr failing year after year...while the the intelligent and objective group is comprised of those that questioned David's viability as a NFL starting QB. I guess now its time to get in line to make excuses for Gary in case he continues to be a losing head coach. You would think some people would learn....obviously not.
Gary must win but the organization is so carebear that he will probably get re-signed to the maximum contract and then fail again and be fired...just like Carr was. Loyalty is for wussies and losers. Loyalty isn't something you get its something you earn and what has Gary done to earn the loyalty? Be a losing head coach? If that is called earning it, then blow it out your posterior.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
Wow. Missed my point? My point was they could have won that game and had the same record as Arizona AND still missed the playoffs, or Arizona could have lost their last game and went 8-8 AND still would have made the playoffs. Either way just because a team made the playoffs doesn't make them a better team.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say here, but if you're trying to compare Schaub to Gale Sayers as far as greatness when they've played then I'm not sure you've capable of having a discussion like this IF THAT IS WHAT YOU"RE SAYING. And for the record, Gale Sayers career was very over rated. Go look at his numbers and he only had like two HUGE seasons. Dunn has had a better career than Gale Sayers as far as successful seasons.
I'm not sure what Palmer even has to do with this discussion.
The bottom line though is that the only football fans around the league that would say any of these comments like Schaub is a top 10 QB or some big time QB are Texans homers that like him simply because he's Texan because Schuab hasn't even played a full season once and hasn't done anything extraordinary. He's been very good at times, and also very bad. Hot and cold basically. He's not mobile at all, so he has to have very good blocking to be successful. If he gets great blocking then he can be very good, but if not well...............Schaub to me is just like Kurt Warner. Good arm, but no mobility. Give him great blocking and he can be great. If not then he's more of your so so average type of QB.
With all that being said, if he stays healthy I think he can have a really good season. I think our O line will continue to improve this season, and if he stays on the field he should have a nice season.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
More successful? No. Were they the same during a 16 game regular season? Yes.
What about option C:
C) Going 9-7 and everyone else in the division chokes and picks in the top 10. The Texans win all 6 of their division games, makes the playoffs, goes on a winning string and lose in the superbowl because of a lucky run.
Yes, I would pick that over going 8-8, but is that really any different then they played last year? After all it's pretty much the same 16 game stretch the Texans had. The Texans didn't do any worse then the Cardinals this past season. The Cardinals would have won their division going 8-8. Their last game was really meanless, since they made the playoffs already. They could have had the same record and still would have been in the superbowl. Record doesn't mean everything.
Another point: Dallas went 9-7 last year. Were they worse then the Cardinals because they missed the playoffs, though they had the same record?
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Uuuuum yes it does when that team runs through 3 straight teams and goes to the SB and almost beats the Steelers as well.
Now I hear what you're saying though. The Chargers weren't hardly a better team than the Texans were in my opinion last season. They got lucky to be in an easier division and they will be in an easier division this season as well.
The old run & shoot Oilers used to have the best team in the world...on paper. But, they could never win a playoff game.
Comparing the Texans - a franchise without a winning season, much less a playoff berth - to the defending NFC Champions because of "ifs" and "could haves" is pointless.
IF a my aunt had nuts, she'd be my uncle. But she doesn't, so she's not. And by the same token, the Texans are what they are. That doesn't make me a hater to be pragmatic and accept reality for what it is at the end of the day. I still hope for the best, but I'm not going off the Cliff of Delusion to convince myself that they are as good as one of the Super Bowl teams because of could've/should've/would've scenarios.
Comparing the Texans - a franchise without a winning season, much less a playoff berth - to the defending NFC Champions because of "ifs" and "could haves" is pointless.
IF a my aunt had nuts, she'd be my uncle. But she doesn't, so she's not. And by the same token, the Texans are what they are. That doesn't make me a hater to be pragmatic and accept reality for what it is at the end of the day. I still hope for the best, but I'm not going off the Cliff of Delusion to convince myself that they are as good as one of the Super Bowl teams because of could've/should've/would've scenarios.
The Texans. Hands down. To be fair, the Texans were in year 3 of the latest regime. That was year one of the Parcells/Sparano Project. Not that we're ever fair to other NFL team's success around here.
There's no doubt in my mind that the Texans had superior talent to the Dolphins in 2008. Yet, the Dolphins were 11-5. The Texans went 8-8. Which team had the superior coaching in 2008?
I feel like Michael Corleone. "Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in."
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Lucky run? Talk about sounding like a straight Texans homer. I bet if the Texans made that run you'd be saying it was one of the best runs in history or something crazy like that, but since it was the Cards, it was just some pathetic "lucky run." They beat the Panthers, Eagles, and the Falcons. 3 teams whom all had very good defenses. All 3 of those teams came out of the best divisions as well. If that was a lucky run then I guess every team that has gone to the SB had a lucky run and that means the champions from the season before.
So I guess the Texans just went 7-9 the season before last when they beat the Jags when they were already in the playoffs right? If record doesn't mean everything then why do we even have team records that establish the playoffs? Why even have wins and losses? We might as well all argue for our teams and say "We played better than our record and we deserve to be there in the playoffs because we were just as good as all the other great teams. Just look at how we played." I mean hell using your rationale we might as well just do bowl games like they do in college.
Yes they were. They didn't make the post season and they had plenty of chances. They lost their last few games to get in, and got embarrassed at home. They had their shot and CHOKED. The Cards had a good season where they had two hot stretches and one of them just so happened to be in the post season where you want them to me and they almost took it all. Good for them. They did their thing.Maybe if the Texans would have handled their business early on we could have been in that position in the post season to make a run as well, BUT we didn't. End of story. No ifs, ands, or buts, will change that.
Insane........ Insanity......
Just take a wild freak'n, pull a number out of your but guess, what our record would have been if we played..
NYJ, Ari (without the effects of Hurricane Ike), New England (two games after Brady went down), SanDiego, Miami, Baltimore, Buffalo, Denver, Seattle, Oakland, New England, St Louis, Buffalo, San Fran, KC, NYJ
Then take a guess at what Miami's record would have been, had they played...
Pitts on the road, Tennessee on the Road, Jacksonville on the road, Indy, Houston, Detroit, Cincinnati, Minnesota, Baltimore, Indy, Cleveland, Jax, GB, Tenn, Oakland, & Chicago.
We're a much better team than the fins.
I have learned in this thread that I misunderstand a lot, miss points, and most troubling have set up a defense mechanism in my head to protect myself from being crushed by Texan losses. It's weird that I get the first two types of comments from people I don't think understand my point of view or are missing my points.
In reality, I think a lot of the problem may be I'm not au fait with techniques that prove the Texans are one of the best, most successful teams in the league.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
That is what I meant to point out earlier. If people want to make this argument that we had so much more talent which is debatable by the way since the Phins had a much better defense than we did, and they had a better record by 3 games, I guess you can put that on coaching and that's exactly why Kubes is a candidate for the HOT SEAT. If one coach can come in and take a 1-15 team to the post season with a team with far less talent than what we currently have the problem right there would be coaching then. They made the point for the thread just by pointing that out.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
Kubiak is under pressure. Whether that means he is on the 'hot seat' is all subjective to everyone's own interpretation of the word 'hot seat'.
I think Kubiak is under pressure to win and I feel if he goes 6-10 or worse, Kubiak could end up losing his job. I think 7-9 buys him a lameduck year or *shudder* a rewarding contract for a losing coach, but I think the magic number is 6 for their to be real pressure on Gary losing his job.
I think Kubiak is under pressure to win and I feel if he goes 6-10 or worse, Kubiak could end up losing his job. I think 7-9 buys him a lameduck year or *shudder* a rewarding contract for a losing coach, but I think the magic number is 6 for their to be real pressure on Gary losing his job.
So we agree then, the Texans are better than the Dolphins?
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Yes, were so much better of a team. I'm insane to think that we weren't better than a team that won 3 more games than us. After all all you need to do is use your imagination and say what our records would have been and call it FACT even though it never happened.
After all we had two QB's last season that didn't exactly measure up to pro bowl material, and the other team had a QB that was an MVP candidate and another player that was a defensive player of the year candidate. It's just sooooo out of this world to think that a team that won 3 more games than us was ACTUALLY better than us. After all we're the Texans and when we're homers we can say that we're better than anyone no matter what. All we have to do is just say it and that makes it true.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
If we go 8-8 or worse he should be fired. THERE I said it. I could care less how many homers that get bothered by that. I actually care about a winning team, and watch every team in the NFL and not just the Texans. I want to see us winning and making the post season. in any coach's 4th season he should have his team in the post season, so if we're not 10-6 at least I hope he's gone.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
So you understand my point with the Chargers, but not with the Cardinals? Confusing. Would 4 games against the Rams & Seahawks make them better then 4 against the Titans & Colts? The Texans went 1-3 against the Titans & Colts, the Cards went 4-0 against the Rams & Seahawks. I honestly don't think the Cardinals would have won 7 games inside the Texans division. They won all six games inside their division. I don't believe they would have had the same luck with the Titans and Colts on their schedule.
And so is saying Arizona is a better team then Houston. How do you know Houston would not have had the same success had they made the playoffs? They were the same during a 16 game season. Am I the only one who sees that?
So, let me ask the doom & gloomers this.
If...... and I know it's just an if, but if the AFC was a much weeker division, and the Texans went 8-8 in the AFC South, and every other team went 7-9 or worse, would you feel better about the Texans "success", having won the division, and making the play-offs?
Would you think we were a better team?
If...... and I know it's just an if, but if the AFC was a much weeker division, and the Texans went 8-8 in the AFC South, and every other team went 7-9 or worse, would you feel better about the Texans "success", having won the division, and making the play-offs?
Would you think we were a better team?
And so is saying Arizona is a better team then Houston. How do you know Houston would not have had the same success had they made the playoffs? They were the same during a 16 game season. Am I the only one who sees that?
No JC, you aren't the only one who sees this. GP, Lucky, Polo...... and several others see, understand, comprehends, and agree with your logic.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
No you called it insanity to think otherwise which is basically implying that it's a fact. ANd why would we go up and measure the other team's record to try and prove something? Didn't you just get through saying several times that W-L record doesn't hardly matter in most cases? On one point you don't want team records to mean something if it involves the Texans, but on another you do. Pick a way to argue your position and stick with it, instead of changing it up.
At the end of the day, Runner and I are arguing with facts why you're arguing with what ifs, woulda, coulda, and shoulda's and speculated arguments. We weren't one game away from the Dolphins record wise, we were THREE.
Who are you referring to by saying "those of us". You mean people like yourself who can't be considered credible because you love the Texans and think they're the best because that's who you root for. Lol! Sorry, but I have my top team that I root for but I watch all the teams around the league. I enjoy the sport of football and as a fan of the Texans, I'm not to PROUD or PRIDEFUL to admit where there short comings are or that other teams are better than them especially when they were 8-8 and have never been batter than 8-8.
What homerish fans like yourself don't seem to get or understand is that no one else around the league even hardly mentions the Texans and still consider them practically an expansion team. And why wouldn't they? The Texans have never had a season record over 8-8. They've NEVER even ALMOST made the playoffs. They've never scared anyone or been considered potential contenders for the SB. But yet in your little homer land, we're going to win it every season and the rest of the teams suck. I mean, if you could actually talk to other fans around the country that follow their teams and other teams, trust me they'd laugh at you and wouldn't hardly consider anything you say as being credible. The stuff you say reminds me of what a lot of Cowboys fans say.
Maybe they will, maybe they won't. Personally I really don't care. I'm not a Dolphins fan. I won't be rooting for them. I'll be rooting for the Texans and hoping that they can finally have a winning season.
Well again, by your logic there is now way to even argue or even debate anything with you. I mean after all wins and losses don't count. You just said it. It's all about what you think you see on the field and the score board doesn't matter.
I haven't seen their schedule. My guess would be that the Dolphins probably finish around 8-8 to 9-7 without looking at their schedule. I don't think they have a ton of great players as far as their play makers but their over all CORE is pretty good, and certain guys may step up. Maybe their defense gets even better. They weren't to shabby last season. With Brady back I think the Pats will easily take that division and go 12-4 easily. It really all depends on if Pennington can stay healthy. He's had injury issues before, and he could go down and if that happens well they're most likely going to be toast. But they're obviously a very well coached team with one of the best GM's around the league. But yes, I'm sure you think that Smith is much better than Parcells at doing his job so I won't even go there.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I guess according to you if you're not a homer that says the Texans are the best you're a doom and gloomer.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
Sorry. I guess 'lucky' wouldn't be right. My main point there was that they made the playoffs and then went on an amazing run to get to the superbowl. Would the Texans have done that? I don't know, but they had the same type of regular season where they could have if they were given the chance.
Would you say the Cardinals were better then the Patriots, though the Patriots had the better record? Record means something, but not everything. Were the Chargers better then the Texans, because they made the playoffs? Were the Cards better then the Cowboys because they went to the playoffs, though they had the same record? I am not for the bowls in college football, and wouldn't want it in the NFL, but you can't tell me the Cardinals were a better football team during the 2008 regular season.
Yes, good for them. I was honestly rooting for the Cardinals in that game. I honestly don't think the Cardinals would have made the playoffs in the AFC South, or the NFC East, though. They went on an incredible run during the playoffs, but would not have been given the chance had they been in one of the two divisions I mentioned.
Now, we're on the same page, we're saying the same things. There are things outside of the W-L column that can be used to judge a teams progress.
Brady coming back, doesn't affect whether the Dolphins are better or worse, they're the same team, regardless if Brady ever plays again. But Brady playing can affect the Dolphins W-L. But regardless what that W-L is, they are no better, and no worse, than what they are.
They are a better team with Pennington. Should the coach be fired, if Pennington can't play a full schedule? Has Pennington ever played a full schedule, prior to last season? Seriously, I love the guy, I love his story....... he's a fighter, and a gamer, I love to watch him play.
I agree, their coach is top notch. I agree Parcells is one of if not the best talent evaluators in the league.... Do I believe Parcells & Sparano are a better combination than Kubiak/Smith... I think it's too early to tell. If they'll continue with the Wildcat, and draft players to fit that system..... Pat White... then we'll see, Tony Sparano will have to prove that he can continue to have success with that system.
But I think we struck gold with Kubiak & Smith. I agree that Kubiak has a lot to learn, but I'm confident he can, and I believe he'll be one of the better coaches in this league for a long time.
Why fire him/them now, and roll the dice again?
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
Thank you. I guess I don't understand how you can have the same record during a 16 game season and not be at least equal to them. Do I think the Texans ware better then the Steelers, Titans or Colts this year? No, but I think they were then the Cards who won 1 more game despite playing the 49ers, Rams & Seahawks 6 times last year. Thanks for pointing that out to me, though.
I guess according to you if you're not a homer that says the Texans are the best you're a doom and gloomer.
This discussion can't progress, if you continue to ignore what I say, and put words in my mouth.
I never said the Texans were the best. I said they were better than the Dolphins. Totally different.
Unless you think the Dolphins are the best
I'm still waiting for people to weigh in and tell me what they would pick if they could guarantee the Texans to have one of these options next year. No third options, no ifs or buts - of these two, which do you want to see.
I expect to see a bunch of people say they'd love to see the Texans make a four game improvement and pick B. I do!
I expect a bunch of people to say they would like to maintain the slow and steady pace, because it is the right way to do things and select A.
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The reason I want the answers is because I'm sure if the Texans make an incremental improvement, I still won't be happy.
I also imagine that if the Texans blow up and go 12-4 next year, most of the people who picked A will change their tune.
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I just want it in writing.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
I'm still waiting for people to weigh in and tell me what they would pick if they could guarantee the Texans to have one of these options next year. No third options, no ifs or buts - of these two, which do you want to see.
I expect to see a bunch of people say they'd love to see the Texans make a four game improvement and pick B. I do!
I expect a bunch of people to say they would like to maintain the slow and steady pace, because it is the right way to do things and select A.
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The reason I want the answers is because I'm sure if the Texans make an incremental improvement, I still won't be happy.
I also imagine that if the Texans blow up and go 12-4 next year, most of the people who picked A will change their tune.
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I just want it in writing.
Okay. I guess I thought you were making a point with those options. I will easily take option B. No matter what the Texans record is I want the playoffs.
Specnatz
Hall of Fame
The only guy not under pressure to win immediately is the new coach of the Detroit Lions. Every coach needs to win or have the team improve.