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Will Fuller WR Notre Dame- 1st round 2016

thunderkyss said:
Feel like I'm aiming at a moving target here, Doc.

I said no consistent hierarchy makes it difficult to assign blame. What's a "reasonable hierarchy" got to do with forcing players on a coach?


& SteelB... don't you want the GM to make all the player acquisitions? If you "like" CND's post, then you should be fine with the yes man GM, which is not what your post history suggests. I don't know, maybe I've been reading you wrong all this time.
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There's no moving target here. I responded to "That's only a problem when trying to assess blame." That's just not so. It very much helps to determine where lies overall competence..........or incompetence.
 
eriadoc said:
That really wasn't the way it was reported. I don't care either way, but the report makes it sound like O'B overruled everyone else. That's not a group decision, consensus, or swinging the room to your side. He's the one who has to make it work, so I'm fine with it, but it doesn't sound like a collaborative effort. It sounds like the collaborative effort settled on Doctson until he overruled it in the 11th hour.

My only issue with the story is how Teflon Rick gets another coating, it seems. That guy's not responsible for anything, I guess.
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The people who "release" these reports are in the business of generating buzz by having shocking information.

What makes a better headline "reasonable men discuss options at WR and make a decision." or "Bill forces pick! Shuns scouting reports, overrules everyone, at umm gun point, while drinking whiskey, and uhh slapping Rick!"

We don't know what happened and his "source" the janitor was shocked! when the Texans didn't pick Doctson.

It is the easiest thing in the world to be a conspiracy theorist - they are everywhere, and they are watching you.

Not saying anyone is right or wrong, but basing our opinion off what a lot (the vast majority) of what these guys tweet? That's fools gold.
 
FuzzyLogic said:
The people who "release" these reports are in the business of generating buzz by having shocking information.

What makes a better headline "reasonable men discuss options at WR and make a decision." or "Bill forces pick! Shuns scouting reports, overrules everyone, at umm gun point, while drinking whiskey, and uhh slapping Rick!"

We don't know what happened and his "source" the janitor was shocked! when the Texans didn't pick Doctson.

It is the easiest thing in the world to be a conspiracy theorist - they are everywhere, and they are watching you.

Not saying anyone is right or wrong, but basing our opinion off what a lot (the vast majority) of what these guys tweet? That's fools gold.
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:tinfoil:
 
FuzzyLogic said:
The people who "release" these reports are in the business of generating buzz by having shocking information.

What makes a better headline "reasonable men discuss options at WR and make a decision." or "Bill forces pick! Shuns scouting reports, overrules everyone, at umm gun point, while drinking whiskey, and uhh slapping Rick!"

We don't know what happened and his "source" the janitor was shocked! when the Texans didn't pick Doctson.

It is the easiest thing in the world to be a conspiracy theorist - they are everywhere, and they are watching you.

Not saying anyone is right or wrong, but basing our opinion off what a lot (the vast majority) of what these guys tweet? That's fools gold.
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You're basing your opinion off nothing. At least people who have the opinion that O'B overrode everyone in the room have a report from a reputable source to point to. The opinion that it was a consensus is based on jack ****.

Believe what you want. Like I said, I don't have an issue with O'B overriding anyone. It's his job to win, so I have no issue with him going down with his guys.
 
eriadoc said:
That really wasn't the way it was reported. I don't care either way, but the report makes it sound like O'B overruled everyone else. That's not a group decision, consensus, or swinging the room to your side. He's the one who has to make it work, so I'm fine with it, but it doesn't sound like a collaborative effort. It sounds like the collaborative effort settled on Doctson until he overruled it in the 11th hour.

My only issue with the story is how Teflon Rick gets another coating, it seems. That guy's not responsible for anything, I guess.
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I like the implications of this scenario. If accurate, it clearly indicates that OB has a well defined role for that receiver position that Fuller can best fill.
 
eriadoc said:
You're basing your opinion off nothing. At least people who have the opinion that O'B overrode everyone in the room have a report from a reputable source to point to. The opinion that it was a consensus is based on jack ****.

Believe what you want. Like I said, I don't have an issue with O'B overriding anyone. It's his job to win, so I have no issue with him going down with his guys.
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Actually on one side is an anonymous source and on the other rather than jack **** are a host of quotes from the 3 men at issue on how they operate. There is also the shear unlikelihood that major decisions, this one and Oz, suddenly became an open book after 13 years of jack other than when a direct participant came out and said something (Kubiak on OD, Wade on JJ).
 
infantrycak said:
Actually on one side is an anonymous source and on the other rather than jack **** are a host of quotes from the 3 men at issue on how they operate. There is also the shear unlikelihood that major decisions, this one and Oz, suddenly became an open book after 13 years of jack other than when a direct participant came out and said something (Kubiak on OD, Wade on JJ).
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I've not read them speak about their specific roles when it comes to drafting players. I'd be interested to read that.

I'm with eriadoc in that I don't care all that much, I actually like the coach deciding who he'd rather have and coach. It is an interesting rumor, if true.

The setting you've set has one issue though, someone has to make the final decision when there are disagreements, right? A decision is always made, so someone is going to get their way and another is not, when there are disagreements. Maybe that's considered a "group" decision, but the decision is ultimately made by someone who's opinion is valued over other opinions.

With the lack of trust I have in Rick, deserved or not, I'd rather OB get the opportunity to make the deciding vote in such situations.
 
TexansSeminole said:
I've not read them speak about their specific roles when it comes to drafting players. I'd be interested to read that.

The setting you've set has one issue though, someone has to make the final decision when there are disagreements, right?
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What they have said is the vast majority of time OB and Smith agree with McNair essentially a spectator. If OB and Smith come to loggerheads McNair will play tie breaker.

TBH I don't like the traditional model of a GM who decides on which players come in the door and a HC who decides who stays. I think the HC should have a lot of say in who they sink or swim with. Part of the problem I have with these Braddock stories is exactly that - just not buying Smith wouldn't get his way on a WR but Smith and McNair would force a QB on their QB guru. Not buying it.
 
infantrycak said:
What they have said is the vast majority of time OB and Smith agree with McNair essentially a spectator. If OB and Smith come to loggerheads McNair will play tie breaker.

TBH I don't like the traditional model of a GM who decides on which players come in the door and a HC who decides who stays. I think the HC should have a lot of say in who they sink or swim with. Part of the problem I have with these Braddock stories is exactly that - just not buying Smith wouldn't get his way on a WR but Smith and McNair would force a QB on their QB guru. Not buying it.
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I must have missed a story. From what I read, O'B said he wanted Osweiler and Smith made it a priority to try and get him. Not sure how that's forcing a QB on him.
 
eriadoc said:
I must have missed a story. From what I read, O'B said he wanted Osweiler and Smith made it a priority to try and get him. Not sure how that's forcing a QB on him.
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There was another Braddock rumor the same day as this Fuller one which went Smith and McNair forced Oz on OB who wanted a 1st round QB instead.
 
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Braddock & guys in here are making it seem as though OB was going to pick up his ball & go home crying if he didn't get the player he wanted which is how you know this whole thing is overstated. Anyone who's been part of a group decision making situation where everyone has a say, knows there's never 100% agreement on anything nor is something agreed upon by everyone that didn't have some sort of support before the process began.

I say that to say..use your common sense folks..There had to be some support in the war room for drafting Fuller over Doctson from the beginning......& i mean outside of just OB. Furthemore, i find it hard to believe OB just "overruled" everyone by himself; especially if everyone else & the entire rest of the scouting team reportedly wanted Doctson. If it were as Braddock says that would've made Doctson the "no-brainer" on their draft board & i don't think OB would've gone against that, nor do i believe Smith would've picked Fuller over Doctson if that was the case. At the very least, Fuller had to be seen as an equal prospect for them to even get to the point of considering him over Doctson.

most likely scenario is that the room was split & both guys were rated nearly the same..Smith and a few probably liked Doctson a little bit more while a few others probably wanted Fuller.....or at least liked him as much as Doctson. OB's vote was probably just the deciding vote for obvious reasons.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
There's no moving target here. I responded to "That's only a problem when trying to assess blame." That's just not so. It very much helps to determine where lies overall competence..........or incompetence.
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It's not really a problem for most folks. The vast majority fall into one of two camps. Either they don't care about individual responsibility, and credit or blame the organization as a whole, or they blame all bad picks on their personal whipping boy whether that be Rick, OB, or McNair, and credit all good picks to their personal champion (or whoever they disdain the least - as the case may be). Facts don't matter. Actually, facts more often tend to get in the way.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
There's no moving target here. I responded to "That's only a problem when trying to assess blame." That's just not so. It very much helps to determine where lies overall competence..........or incompetence.
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& that's not the same as blame?

:ok:
 
TexansSeminole said:
What's wrong with being interested in who's responsible for important decisions on your sports team? I don't understand.
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Nothing but you have to just deal with the frustration rather than make things up if they hold info tight and/or have a structure that isn't amenable to pinning responsibility just on job title.
 
infantrycak said:
Nothing but you have to just deal with the frustration rather than make things up if they hold info tight and/or have a structure that isn't amenable to pinning responsibility just on job title.
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Oh, for sure. But to continually search for and be interested in any information that may help you determine responsibility is natural, in my eyes. If you're interested in that sort of thing anyway.

Also, I don't think anyone is taking the rumor as fact, only as interesting.
 
Double Barrel said:
These threads are funny. Such hard opinions about the unknown.

For kicks, I went back to checkout people's reaction to JJ Watt. Now THAT is pretty funny to read in hindsight. And makes you realize none us really know what the heck we are talking about. :D

2011 NFL Draft: Round 1, Texans with 11th pick /Thread (**JJ Watt DE**)
thunderkyss said:
JJ Watt???

the DE doesn't get the QB in the 3-4
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HaHa! you are right, some of them are pretty funny!!
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infantrycak said:
What they have said is the vast majority of time OB and Smith agree with McNair essentially a spectator. If OB and Smith come to loggerheads McNair will play tie breaker.

TBH I don't like the traditional model of a GM who decides on which players come in the door and a HC who decides who stays. I think the HC should have a lot of say in who they sink or swim with. Part of the problem I have with these Braddock stories is exactly that - just not buying Smith wouldn't get his way on a WR but Smith and McNair would force a QB on their QB guru. Not buying it.
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I'm not saying that I necessarily buy it either, but the QB is the face of the franchise and all that, if you get my meaning.
 
infantrycak said:
Blame and credit don't spread easily in the minds of some.
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Speaking of blame/credit, I've heard BOB wanted Hack and McNair/Rick forced Os on BOB. I still think Os has the ability to be a top 10 QB in a couple of yrs with BOB's coaching. So I dont have a problem with bringing Os on board. But if it doesn't work out BOB will suffer the same fate as Kubes.
 
Where did you hear OB wanted Hack?

I mean I've heard it here. I've heard my boxer say 'rice rhutt' but that may have just been the dewlaps. He was right though.
 
michaelm said:
I'm not saying that I necessarily buy it either, but the QB is the face of the franchise and all that, if you get my meaning.
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HWNSNBM X 1000

Spot On

Nobody is going to be Texans QB without McNair's approval/handprints all over that aquasition.
 
Double Barrel said:
These threads are funny. Such hard opinions about the unknown.

For kicks, I went back to checkout people's reaction to JJ Watt. Now THAT is pretty funny to read in hindsight. And makes you realize none of us really know what the heck we are talking about. :D

2011 NFL Draft: Round 1, Texans with 11th pick /Thread (**JJ Watt DE**)
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I didn't know squat about Watt when his name was announced. I just watched the draft day highlights and thought that he lacked explosiveness and initial burst, but looked like a "high motor" player which I always like. They compared him to Kyle Vanden Bosch from the Titans who was never a superstar, but always a hard nose player I liked. I had no idea what to think about Watt, but I definitely wasn't excited.
 
all right its looking like its shaping up to be between

Quinn
Amukamara
Fairley
Watt
Jordan

please pick jordan.....pleeaaasssseeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Above was my exact post in the JJ Watt thread from 2011....my thoughts on Watt at that time very much mirror texecutioner's. I didn't see the explosiveness in Watt that i saw in Jordan which is why i wanted him. The other 3 i never really cared for to begin with.
 
Mr teX said:
all right its looking like its shaping up to be between

Quinn
Amukamara
Fairley
Watt
Jordan

please pick jordan.....pleeaaasssseeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Above was my exact post in the JJ Watt thread from 2011....my thoughts on Watt at that time very much mirror texecutioner's. I didn't see the explosiveness in Watt that i saw in Jordan which is why i wanted him. The other 3 i never really cared for to begin with.
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I never liked Amukamara either. I did like Quinn and Fairley but not for a 34 defense.

Watt is still the best five technique I've ever scouted in the 10 or so years that it has been a serious hobby of mine. Jordan is the second best. It was insane that they came out in the same draft and how severely underrated they both were.

I couldn't even come to this section of the board after the pick was made because the response to it was so negative and I didn't feel like arguing with that many people. But everyone in the draft section knew I was a huge fan of Watt.

I didn't and never would have predicted that he would become what he is. But I did think that he was a top five player in that class. I really liked him and he's still light years better than I ever thought he would be.
 
I can't remember watching Watt at Wisconson, so I didn't ever participate in that thread. In fact, I don't think I did much research on that draft class as a whole.
 
TexansSeminole said:
I can't remember watching Watt at Wisconson, so I didn't ever participate in that thread. In fact, I don't think I did much research on that draft class as a whole.
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I remember watching the rose bowl game against TCU that year & the hype on him coming into & out of that game b/c it was said he had a "knack" for batting passes. I was thinking to myself, "yeah that's b/c he's not quick/explosive enough to get to the qb..".........................yeah everybody on the forum can give me a collective facepalm for having that dumb ass thought!
 
Mr teX said:
I remember watching the rose bowl game against TCU that year & the hype on him coming into & out of that game b/c it was said he had a "knack" for batting passes. I was thinking to myself, "yeah that's b/c he's not quick/explosive enough to get to the qb..".........................yeah everybody on the forum can give me a collective facepalm for having that dumb ass thought!
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Something that we all talk about a little, truroyalty especially, is how we as fans don't have a good portion of the scouting report. All the personal, work ethic, attitude, drive, etc type of traits are huge question marks for fans because we simply don't have all the information. Teams don't either, but their access to it is significantly higher. It's hard to predict a guy will improve so dramatically without that information. A guy like Watt shows why it's so important for teams to delve into those traits and make them high priorities.
 
Predicting the Stats of Every First Round Rookie
http://page2sports.com/55950/predicting-stats-first-round-round-picks

21) Houston Texans Will Fuller WR Notre Dame Ind. (FBS)

65 Receptions, 1,100 Yards, 6 Touchdowns

Fuller is exactly what the Texans needed. He is a speedy outside complement to DeAndre Hopkins that can put the safeties back on their heels and allow Hopkins to make plays in one-on-one coverage. He is also a great aid to new quarterback Brock Osweiler who, despite looking good last year, has only seven career starts under his belt and needs all the help he can get. The last time that the Houston Texans took a first round wide receiver in the late first round, it was DeAndre Hopkins. Back then, Hopkins was chosen to create a number two threat to help star Andre Johnson. That worked out pretty well last time and all signs lead to it working out again for the Texans with Fuller.
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Sounds like every rookie is going to have a great year according to them. In this scenario, Elliot probably beats out Fuller for ROY.
 
PapaL said:
Predicting the Stats of Every First Round Rookie
http://page2sports.com/55950/predicting-stats-first-round-round-picks



Sounds like every rookie is going to have a great year according to them. In this scenario, Elliot probably beats out Fuller for ROY.
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I'm 6'4" 315 lbs (being kind).... if Fuller gets those numbers, I'll be doing Cartlon's dance.

tumblr_n47d7f7uFv1rt5pgzo1_400.gif


Well, his TDs would have to be around 10 to get the dance. But 17 ypc... yeah, that would get the blood pump'n
 
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PapaL said:
In comparision, Nuk caught 52 on 93 attempts for 802 yards and 2 TDs, 15.4 average, his rookie year at the #2 WR to AJ.

There would be A LOT of dancing going on around here!
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Yes, but he didn't have anyone throwing him the ball.
 
Looks like Will Fuller will be as good a wide receiver as Lynn Swan and as good a draft pick as JJ Watt.
 
Seegara said:
Looks like Will Fuller will be as good a wide receiver as Lynn Swan and as good a draft pick as JJ Watt.
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Do I detect sarcasm in this post?Idk kinda hard to tell.
Seems like an odd thing to just throw out there without an article or tweet pumping him up
 
Fun thread, went to first post of thread. Just like on the other site it looks like a lot of you guys will be eating some words.

I think both he and Braxton Miller will have really good rookie seasons.

Going to be an exciting season.
 
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