This is the silly season when everything is smoke and mirrors. Rumors will be flying faster and thicker than executive orders out of the oval office.
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What's your plan for QB next season?
- Thread starter xtruroyaltyx
- Start date
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
The Patriots would be fools to turn that offer down. BB is not a fool, therefore it did not happen
I also think the Texans would be foolish to offer that much. JG seems like he's worth about a 3rd to me, as he's unproven, was injured in his 2nd game this year, and has only 1 year left on his contract.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
The Patriots would be fools to turn that offer down. BB is not a fool, therefore it did not happen
I also think the Texans would be foolish to offer that much. JG seems like he's worth about a 3rd to me, as he's unproven, was injured in his 2nd game this year, and has only 1 year left on his contract.
He was drafted in the 2nd. Why has he lost value since the draft?
I'd give a 2nd for him in a heartbeat.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Well for the reasons above, and the fact that you only get him for 1 year. After that you either franchise tag him for 20+ million, or give him 18m a year on a multi-year deal like Brock Osweiller. Not exactly a great position to be in. He really hasn't done anything to prove he's a franchise QB, so I don't see why anyone would give up a 1st for him. If a team is cap strapped and desperate for a qb they might, but I don't think that's the Texans quite yet. I think we would be better off keeping our 2nd and drafting a QB than trading it for a 1 year flyer on JG.
Also, we should probably wait until after the Super Bowl to consider JG. If Brady does retire, JG will likely be off the market. If Brady is hurt during the game and JG plays well for the Patriots, his stock is going to go through the roof. A lot of things could happen, especially when you have 100+ million people watching and an entire network ready to hype every little thing possible during the offseason.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
I still think a 2 and a conditional pick (3-4 or 4-5 in 2018) is reasonable.
I liked him a lot comming out but havent done much research on the draftable qb's to compare. I might not make the deal at all if he isnt willing to restructure his contract upfront.
I liked him a lot comming out but havent done much research on the draftable qb's to compare. I might not make the deal at all if he isnt willing to restructure his contract upfront.
Not 100% sure on this, but I don't think you can make a trade until the new league year starts. The 2016 trade window closed a long time ago.
jradMIT
Veteran
Draft picks are more valuable than the player because it is versatile, it can be used on whoever or whatever and it they have the potential factor, and since most GM's believe in their scouting ability, they are highly valued not to mention the salary cap implications of 4 year control. If you look historically most of time players go for a lot less than the pick needed to replace them.
jradMIT
Veteran
I don't think its that crazy to say that they are not necessarily interested. A lot of people on here are sold on him as being a franchise QB, but he's just played 1.5 games and he got hurt. He is by no means proven, add in the fact that you have to make a decision next year about him. It's quite possible they are not sold on him for lack of track record/ coupled with something they see on the tape or his measurable's. They can like him as a player and like to bring him in at a better price, but don't think he is some sort of sure fire upper tier starter who will have a long prolific career. Therefore If the asking price is a 1st+ or at least a 1st, they feel their better suited using the pick on someone else or else's, they would rather have one of the veterans that might come available plus the player(s) they can get versus taking a shot on JG. Its not crazy its actually probably more by the book based on the situation and history especially with the thin resume he has even its aggravating and unexciting.
zshawn10
All Pro
Texans Must Draft A Quarterback If They Want To Make A Super Bowl
http://houston.cbslocal.com/2017/01...uarterback-if-they-want-to-make-a-super-bowl/
http://houston.cbslocal.com/2017/01...uarterback-if-they-want-to-make-a-super-bowl/
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Yeah, you can't do anything until March. Teams can talk all they want, and I'm sure the Patriots are spending exactly zero effort on 2017 offseason moves right now. It's probably just BS fodder for the sports news cycle during the 2 weeks of downtime before the Super Bowl.
What if the Texans dont find atleast an avg QB and in 2-3 yrs the Texans defense has to be broken up. Meanwhile the Tacks with all of those cheap young draft picks build a talented team like the ex Pats employees have done in ATL.
Or Bortles is surrounded by a great young OL and improves greatly with better OL.
Fact is Ricky made a boo boo and the Texans are exactly where they were last yr. The only difference is we know that Os is a historically bad QB and will probably be starting next yr anyway,
They're worth more, unless you find your franchise QB. Let me put it this way, how many 1st rd picks would you give up for Rodgers? Older Brees? Young Brady/Manning. I mean what would you give up for Wilson or Stafford. Rodgers I would give up 5 1st rd picks for.
Wilson/Stafford/Cam 3 1st rd picks for.
Wentz/Cousins I would give up atleast 2 1st rd picks for maybe even three.
Point is you really cant put a price on a franchise QB and you have to overpay for the chance at a franchise QB. I believe Jimmy G is a franchise QB and since I believe that I would give up much more than a 1st and a 4th for him. I get that I'm a risktaker and most people cant stomach my thought process.
BTW, I never thought this way about Os. I thought Bob/Ricky McNair overreacted to the Hoyer debacle and hoped they got lucky.
They have scouts at the Sr Bowl as we speak. Yesterday Kirwin interviewed Dimitroff at the Sr. Bowl. Some teams take personnel as it's the lifeblood of their teams. Some teams dont and let their HC's have elective surgeries during the combine.
jradMIT
Veteran
I agree IF he is a franchise QB, then it is nothing, but it's a big IF, there just isn't the track record add in the injury as well. If you take the play of the 1.5 games into consideration you have weigh in the injury as well, they go hand in hand so to speak. It's a size able risk involved in projecting out too much. And I'm not saying he won't be a Franchise guy, I like him a lot too but there is a lot of uncertainty.
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Kow does Belichick operate?
Agreed, which is why the trade will only cost a 1st and a 4th instead of atleast three 1sts that that a franchise QB would cost. I dont worry about Jimmy G's injury history, it was only a month long injury, no broken bones/ligaments/tendons. Unlike brittle bone guys like Romo. Even better news is you get a one yr look at Jimmy G to see if he's a franchise QB, before you have to pay him, unlike Os.
Is a late 1st/late 4th really that much of a risk? Who could they draft that would make this potential impact with the 25th pick in the draft? If you lose on Jimmy G how much have you really set your franchise back? If a late 1st and a late 4th sets your franchise back for more than a yr, much less 5 yrs then your GM stinks. (Well there is that) Which is why he would never do this rumored deal.
I'm going to do a mck with this trade, you should check it out.
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Smith could draft an OL in the 2-3rd rds and strengthen the OL in addition to trading for Jimmy G. Of course Ricky drafting XSF instead of Jimmy G is why we ar where we are in the 1st place. So that may be a bad idea.
Texansballer74
The Marine
He doesn't show his hand.
He doesn't let the right hand (media) know what the left hand (his team) is doing. Especially when they are about to play in the biggest game known to football.
I'm sure he's not worried about the draft right now.
However I'm sure he told Ceasari to float this rumor out there and see how it floats. See: Belichick and how he went about trading Mallett to the Texans. Chandler Jones to the Cards etc....
Texansballer74
The Marine
Texansballer74
The Marine
True
jradMIT
Veteran
Honestly we gotta sign a starting tackle in FA, and a back up Guard or T, this draft isn't deep in tackle might be too risky, the guy might not be who you thought he was or you get picked off by another team. Plus you gotta get the value where it's given to you, and this year it's not T or G for that matter, it's cb's, safeties, RB and TE. All positions that can be upgraded.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ricky didn't make a boo boo. OB made a boo boo. We've all been wanting the Texans to swing for the fences and get a franchise-ish QB. The Texans swung and missed. Franchise-ish QBs are hard to find.
We weren't in charge of finding a QB, he was and he failed. He signed a guy that had 4 of the worst statistical games since 1950 to a guaranteed 37 mil. That's the definition of a boo boo, ask anybody in the NFL and they will tell you this is what happens when a GM panics. Spin it however you like.
You want to know another boo boo is only drafting 3 QB's, none before the 4th rd in a decade. Not smart
Thanks, I would stand a better chance of finding a QB than Ricky would. Not because I know more than he does, but because I value the QB position alot more than Ricky does. 3 QB's in a decade is ridiculous.
Rocketzzz13
Practice Squad
Why not lol
Do you have any links or proof of this? Matt Schaub was a 3rd rd. pick and the Texans gave 2 2nd rd. picks for him.
You're the one spinning and hindsighting the hell out of this.
As well as being the most important position on the field, I think evaluating a college QB is one of the most difficult things in the draft. The intangibles of how a particular player is going to play with NFL defenses, under pressure, etc. I'm going to do some research today and see what QB's Smith passed on and where they are today.
For all of you Cutler "fans": Jay Cutler's 65 yard heave the longest in the NFL in 2016
Jay Cutler’s future as an NFL starting quarterback is a big question heading into the offseason, but there’s no question he still has a cannon.
In fact, according to the NFL’s Next Gen Stats, Cutler threw a football the farthest in the air of any quarterback in the NFL in 2016: 65 yards.
That came on a Hail Mary before halftime against the Buccaneers. Officially it was a 50-yard touchdown, but Cutler was standing near the numbers on the right side of the field, and threw it about eight yards deep in the end zone on the left side of the field, for a total distance of 65 yards.
There’s more to arm strength than how far a quarterback can throw, but that throw demonstrated Cutler has plenty of strength in that right arm of his. Cutler turns 34 this year and has a $16 million cap hit, so there’s a pretty good chance that the Bears will move on from him. Other teams take note: He can still chuck it
Jay Cutler’s future as an NFL starting quarterback is a big question heading into the offseason, but there’s no question he still has a cannon.
In fact, according to the NFL’s Next Gen Stats, Cutler threw a football the farthest in the air of any quarterback in the NFL in 2016: 65 yards.
That came on a Hail Mary before halftime against the Buccaneers. Officially it was a 50-yard touchdown, but Cutler was standing near the numbers on the right side of the field, and threw it about eight yards deep in the end zone on the left side of the field, for a total distance of 65 yards.
There’s more to arm strength than how far a quarterback can throw, but that throw demonstrated Cutler has plenty of strength in that right arm of his. Cutler turns 34 this year and has a $16 million cap hit, so there’s a pretty good chance that the Bears will move on from him. Other teams take note: He can still chuck it
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Maybe we can sign Cutler and see how many times he can ding Fuller in the helmet from 60 yards out.
It's not my job to find a QB it's Rick's and he has failed. (Shocking) When you sign a guy that is a historically bad QB to a $72 million and a 38 million dollars bonus that's the definition of a boo boo. You could ask any NFL GM and he would agree.
What's sad is how Rick has neglected the position for over a decade.
BTW, I was glad Rick signed Os because atleast he finally tried to solved the QB position. He failed and should be fired for 1. Not being able to identify a QB for a decade 2. Neglecting the QB position for a decade. 3. These are the latest things on the list.
Of course we know Bob will never fire his illegitimate son.
What's sad is how Rick has neglected the position for over a decade.
BTW, I was glad Rick signed Os because atleast he finally tried to solved the QB position. He failed and should be fired for 1. Not being able to identify a QB for a decade 2. Neglecting the QB position for a decade. 3. These are the latest things on the list.
Of course we know Bob will never fire his illegitimate son.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Well that's demonstrably false since Elway (strong GM model, all hail see it wins a SB, Elway) was competing for that historically bad QB with a very similar offer.
Apples vs oranges, 1st thing Elway did after he took over was cut Tebow and sign Elway and right or wrong he drafted Os in the 2nd rd to be Manning's heir apparent. (That's a plan and an investment) He also invested in a developmental guy (Semien) Then when Os shocked Elway by walking Elway reinvested in the QB position (Lynch) All of this investment has happened in Elway's first 5 yrs on the job.
Compare that investment to the investment Ricky has made in the QB position over the last decade.
jradMIT
Veteran
Look at history post salary cap era, yes there are exceptions, but more often than not, Marshall Faulk Randy Moss 2nd OToMH
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Ultimately a GM should be judged on how he evaluates talent and whether they can play in the NFL. My biggest problem is not the terrible evals, it's the lack of capital being spent on the most important position in all of sports. If evaluating QB's was easy anybody could do it.
Think of it this way, I'm sure your job has a few things in it that separates the good from the bad in your industry. If a guy neglects the most important part of his job in your industry how long would he still be employed?
The Texans- Rick McNair = a decade
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Nice attempted topic change. The issue was Oz not the Denver QB situation.
Faulk was playing hardball with Indy (something Jimmy isn't going to do), and Moss was initially traded form Minn. to Oakland for a 1st (7th overall), a 7th, and a LB. His trades after that had seen his value diminished for one reason or another.
To build on 'caks post above.
Elway believed the kid had talent. Enough to have drafted him in the 2nd round & again to offer him $30M guaranteed.
So I have to believe the talent is there, based on Elway's evaluation.
I don't knot that it is, but I'm leaning to a coaching issue being the problem with Osweiler. All the "mechanics & footwork" talk... are issues, I agree. But that didn't stop Elway from drafting him in the 2nd round or offering him $32M guaranteed.
banned1976
sleeper mode
Elway could be wrong. No GM gets them all right. Belichick has struck out many times on QB's. Look at Mallett as a recent example.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Mallet had the talent but is a meathead - only knows one speed to throw the ball which is as hard as he can.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Belichick is a defense guy. Elway is a HoF QB working with a HC that is considered a QB whisperer. That team wanted Oz. Frankly when I see people saying 'it's so obvious Oz sucks, it was obvious in Denver, it was obvious in college' I tend to move them into the 'don't know crap about QBs' column. Elway/Kubiak v. Internet Genius - not a tough call. Yes they all make mistakes, but don't tell me it was obvious or that Smith is a dumbass for sharing their opinion.
banned1976
sleeper mode
I never said any of that. Anywhere at any time. I've admitted, even after Osweiler had a really bad game that I was all in on the Brock experience. I thought it was a good, no, great move. And I liked him coming out of college. But I don't know now if he is just not a good fit here, or whether he's just not a good QB period. We'll find out because I'm sure he'll be our starting QB for the 2017 season and after that, if he hasn't improved in this scheme, he'll be somewhere else in 2018
What about Os other than his contract is an albatross and the GM that signed him wont be held accountable.
You brought up Elway so I thought you wanted to talk the way Elway values QB's vs Ricky. If you want to talk Os, everybody misses on QB's but the difference is some are willing to keep rolling the dice on QB's some aren't.
Point is they need to keep rolling the dice, If it were me I would trade for Jimmy G and invest a late rd pick in Chad Kelly this yr.
2006: draft: Vince Young and Jay Cutler are the only two QB's in that draft worth a damn. Neither are #1 over all to me.
2007 draft: Not a single noteworthy QB came out of that draft.
2008 draft: The Texans pick 18th and trade the pick to Baltimore for their #1 (26th OA) and select Duane Brown. Baltimore uses the 18th pick on Joe Flacco. I can almost call this one a wash. No other above average QB's out of this draft and the Texans had Matt Schaub.
2009 draft: Texans pick #17 OA and select Brian Cushing. Matthew Stafford went #1 OA, Mark Sanchez #5 OA and Josh Freeman #17 OA. Matthew Stafford is the only franchise QB in this draft.
2010 draft: Texans pick Kareem Jackson. Sam Bradford went #1 OA, Tebow #25 and Jimmy Clausen #48 OA. Colt McCoy is the only other really recognizable name.
2011 draft: Houston picks some guy named JJ Watt at #11 OA. Cam Newton is #1 OA. Such luminary plaers as Jake Locker, Christian Ponder and Blaine Gabbert were choices that I'm glad Smith passed on. Andy Dalton and Collin Kap were there, so I guess you could call that a miss, but with Schaub playing at a high level and the defense being the weakness at the time, I don't consider that a miss.
2012 draft: Texans pick Mercilus at #26 OA. This is the one draft, so far, that I can truthfully complain about. Nick Foles, Kirk Cousins and Russell Wilson. This is hindsight, though. The Texans had just come off of a playoff season and Schaub was playing his best football and the defense needed help. Wash, rinse, repeat.
2013 draft: Texans pick DHOP at #27 OA. EJ Manuel is the only QB taken in a bad year for QB's. Mike Glennon, whom I know some of you like(d).
2014 draft: Texans, of course, pick JDC #1 OA.This is the one where you can point a finger at Smith a little bit. I'm in agreement with those who think Bridgewater was going to be the Texans 1st pick of the 2nd round. Minnesota pulls a trade and *poof* that options gone. QB is definitely a need in this draft, so I don't have any excuse for Smith not taking Carr or maybe Jimmy G at 2:1. X isn't proving to be all that.
2015 draft: Houston picks Kevin Johnson at #18 OA. There's no way the Texans were going to trade up and get either Mariotta or Winston and there just wasn't another good signal caller in this draft. Only 7 were drafted at all.
2016 draft: The Texans take Will Fuller V at # 21 OA. There was a lot angst over this draft with a lot of people on here wanting the Texans to do what ever it takes to move up and take either Goff or Wentz. No idea how their career trajectories are going to go but in my opinion, I'm glad they didn't. Wentz started out hot but fizzled after teams got a few games of film on him. Goff was very underwhelming for LA. Just rookies, I know. Lynch is extremely raw and just no telling how he'll end up. Hackenburg? HA!!
2007 draft: Not a single noteworthy QB came out of that draft.
2008 draft: The Texans pick 18th and trade the pick to Baltimore for their #1 (26th OA) and select Duane Brown. Baltimore uses the 18th pick on Joe Flacco. I can almost call this one a wash. No other above average QB's out of this draft and the Texans had Matt Schaub.
2009 draft: Texans pick #17 OA and select Brian Cushing. Matthew Stafford went #1 OA, Mark Sanchez #5 OA and Josh Freeman #17 OA. Matthew Stafford is the only franchise QB in this draft.
2010 draft: Texans pick Kareem Jackson. Sam Bradford went #1 OA, Tebow #25 and Jimmy Clausen #48 OA. Colt McCoy is the only other really recognizable name.
2011 draft: Houston picks some guy named JJ Watt at #11 OA. Cam Newton is #1 OA. Such luminary plaers as Jake Locker, Christian Ponder and Blaine Gabbert were choices that I'm glad Smith passed on. Andy Dalton and Collin Kap were there, so I guess you could call that a miss, but with Schaub playing at a high level and the defense being the weakness at the time, I don't consider that a miss.
2012 draft: Texans pick Mercilus at #26 OA. This is the one draft, so far, that I can truthfully complain about. Nick Foles, Kirk Cousins and Russell Wilson. This is hindsight, though. The Texans had just come off of a playoff season and Schaub was playing his best football and the defense needed help. Wash, rinse, repeat.
2013 draft: Texans pick DHOP at #27 OA. EJ Manuel is the only QB taken in a bad year for QB's. Mike Glennon, whom I know some of you like(d).
2014 draft: Texans, of course, pick JDC #1 OA.This is the one where you can point a finger at Smith a little bit. I'm in agreement with those who think Bridgewater was going to be the Texans 1st pick of the 2nd round. Minnesota pulls a trade and *poof* that options gone. QB is definitely a need in this draft, so I don't have any excuse for Smith not taking Carr or maybe Jimmy G at 2:1. X isn't proving to be all that.
2015 draft: Houston picks Kevin Johnson at #18 OA. There's no way the Texans were going to trade up and get either Mariotta or Winston and there just wasn't another good signal caller in this draft. Only 7 were drafted at all.
2016 draft: The Texans take Will Fuller V at # 21 OA. There was a lot angst over this draft with a lot of people on here wanting the Texans to do what ever it takes to move up and take either Goff or Wentz. No idea how their career trajectories are going to go but in my opinion, I'm glad they didn't. Wentz started out hot but fizzled after teams got a few games of film on him. Goff was very underwhelming for LA. Just rookies, I know. Lynch is extremely raw and just no telling how he'll end up. Hackenburg? HA!!
I tend to think he's a bad fit here. He probably would've been better served to stay in a QB friendly system like Kubiak's. Here's a thought. Baby Shanny needs a new QB in SF when he gets there. He runs a very QB friendly system and is a proven QB whispering guru. Make a deal happen there.
zshawn10
All Pro
Good post; for 2016, people might be upset about not getting Prescott though although he went into the perfect situation for a QB in Dallas. I remember we did meet with him but the DUI must have turned us off.
2014: Bridgewater has a really serious knee injury he may or not come back from fully. Even then, his best year was 14 TDs and 8 INTs. Carr and Jimmy G were probably the two that got away; not sure if they didn't like Carr at all(even though BOB said he was one of the most accurate QBs they looked at) and too early to say anything on Jimmy G.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Should have made clear I was spinning off your post not saying that was your position.