Toro Bravo
Rookie
Texans making run for Trent Williams should be no brainer
Should be
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Trent Williams LT Available
- Thread starter mussop
- Start date
Should be
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Just do it
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
OK ... it's destiny that Williams lands here . Why ... cause Daniel Snyder owned Astroworld and tore it down then Travis Scott came out with a CD called Astroworld with subliminal messages for Snyder to give Williams to the Texans .
Dan Snyder owned Astroworld? Who's Travis Scott?
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Travis Scott is married to a Kardashian .
https://www.questia.com/newspaper/1P2-2149248/redskins-owner-seeks-to-stop-six-flags-astroworld
This will cost $$$$, so it's not going to happen.
Gotta win that salary cap championship.
This differences between the way the Astros/Rockets are being run is stark. Guess you dont have to be aggressive when you've made a little over 2 billion on your daddy's investment.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
How many 4-12 seasons in a row are you willing to accept in order to emulate how the Astros built a championship contender?
And stop with the Rockets. Morey has spent ridiculous amounts of money and turned the roster over numerous times with several big names and they still haven't got to the Finals after 12 years. Paul and Harden couldn't share dribbling the ball to save their lives, and you think Mr. Triple Double is going to give the ball up so Harden can dribble-dribble-dribble chuck-a-three?
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Hard to argue against 0-12 on Finals appearances for Morey and 0-7 for Harden.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
If they truly aren't in and aren't even making a play for him then yes that bothers me because it does show a lack of willingness to make a big move and being gun shy. If they do make a play and then just get outspent because some other team broke the bank, IE Raiders with Brown, then I'm fine with that. Even the best players can't win the game alone and if you would cripple your team in the future then its not worth it.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Know what else they are 0-12 on?
Being under .500 or missing the playoffs.
All while being in a league where there's only been a handful of true contenders, not spending deep into the tax and not being allowed to tank.
Their is a clear hierarchy. Astros >>>> Rockets >>> Texans
How would we know if they're in or not? What bothers me is that if they don't get him, regardless of the reason Nancy's here will be screaming about 'cheapa$$ Texans and 'OB screwed the pooch again' even if they were never given a realistic option to trade for him, or he's not traded at all
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Rockets missed the playoffs 3 years straight under Morey.....
I also wouldn't call a 41-41 season something to be proud of....
Nor getting slapped in the 1st round routinely for like 4 straight years....
That is if you're holding the Rockets to the same standard you hold the Texans to.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
They were also a sub-.500 team in '12-13 (Harden's first season on the team)
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Astros >>> Rockets>>> Dynamo>>> Skeeters>>> Sabercats>>> Dash>>> Katy football>>> Houston Outlaws>>> Texans
FIFY
sandman
Brexit Advisor
If we are having a debate about which organizations are better about trying to make moves and spend money, sure. But if it is about how successful they have been in those efforts? The Astros are the cream of MLB, much less the city of Houston.
It's hard to point to the Rockets with their two WCF participation trophies and say that their spending and constant roster turnover is what the Texans should emulate, because it hasn't brought them any success if we are measuring getting to championship games/series.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I mean that's the thing. The perception with some in here is that b/c it hasn't leaked & they haven't heard about them calling to inquire...it hasn't happened. I don't have any connections whatsoever to the FO, but I'm about 90% sure that at least 1 phone call was placed to Dan Snyder to find out what the situation was with Williams. It would be blatant job neglect for them to have not done that.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Well at least he did not throw in the independents.
- Williams turned 31 July 19th so yes he is still 31. Yes he can play another 5-6 seasons. When a contract like that is constructed it usually has no GTD money. TWs current contract is exactly that way. I don't advocate a 1st for him. IMO, Scharping is future RT. I want another vet corner and Jalen Ramsey would be target as would Patrick Peterson.
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But don't you see SteelB Cal and his moma have gotta save up their retirement. You'll understand about these things some day when you are older.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Stros = Fiscally responsible, run a balanced budget with great control over their finances & use discretionary income very well.
Rockets = Buying everything on credit to keep up with the joneses....accumulating higher & higher credit card debt & robbing peter to pay Paul (literally) in order to get by and keep up appearances.
Texans = Fiscally responsible, run a balanced budget.....but cheap as hell & don't want to spend money b/c they've been burned too many times in the past (Reed, Oz) when they have.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
The Texans are in a league where there is a lot or parity and teams still have a lot of control.
In the NBA there is much less parity, and players have tons of control. The Rockets have a well run organization for the framework they have to operate in.
Not sure what is hard to see about this.
There's tons of differences from the draft, to players wanting to go to destination cities, to Luxury tax, ect...
If the Texans had emulated the Rockets they'd have at least gotten to a conference championship. Maybe even won a SB.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I was referring to $ that transfers with his contract in trade approx 11 m and 12.5 m that Texans responsible for. Adding 4 and 2.5 to current would give him six million bonus then 4 year extension.
Mangler
Toro de España
Any chance you cut your own wrist and go away for good?
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Yes, but we'll never know if they made that call or not. But some here will make asses of themselves (assume) regardless
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
& those tons of differences you cite are the reasons why a GM in the NFL can't emulate how a GM does his thing in the NBA. Bringing in 1-2 high profile players isn't enough to dramatically change the fortunes of an NFL team the way it can in the NBA...
We're talking about a trade. The player has no preference. They could send him to Buffalo & he's got to play to get paid the remainder of his contract.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
MLB has it even better because they have no spending limit and teams with no chance of a post season start selling off their best players to teams making a post season run. It’s how we got Verlander right when we needed him most. Imagine what NFL teams could do if right before the playoffs they could bring in 2-4 all pros. You think teams like the Pats have a choke hold now you don’t want to see the death grip that would give them.
That didn't come out until long after the deal was made
Toro Bravo
Rookie
True that.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
The point has already been made that the three professional leagues operate very uniquely from one another, creating an almost impossible attempt to compare them.
If you are saying that within the construct of their own league constraints, it is Astros/Rockets/Texans then we are in agreement.
But I completely disagree that for the Texans to succeed that the GM(s) need to be like Darryl Morey or that he is even a model GM in his own league. He's had 12 years of his wheeling and dealing style and has had one post-season two years ago where they were legit.
I think it is kind of ironic that for a Texans GM it is Super Bowl or bust, but we break out the excuses for Morey and play the "well at least he got his team to a conference finals" card.
Porky
Hall of Fame
Yes all of the league's are different. What my point was is that within the confines of the league rules and how the teams generally operate, the Astros are at or very near the top of the heap.
The Trio of Crane, Lunhow, and Hinch is nearly inarguably the best owner/GM/Manager combo in the sport.
The Texans? They aren't even in the conversation for upper half of their sport. Come on, let's get real.
Cletus wouldn't even be running a lemonade stand if it wasn't for Daddy's deep pockets. There literally is no GM. And buttchin is a college coach or an NFL assistant. He's in over his head and has been for 5 years.
I'd argue this is a trio that as it stands currently is arguably the worst in the league as opposed to the best of the best for the Astros.
I do feel like there is growth potential for Cal so I'll give Cal some time.
But 5 years in, BOB has shown little to no growth. Maybe this will magically be the year. As for the GM? There isn't one so who the hell knows.
The Trio of Crane, Lunhow, and Hinch is nearly inarguably the best owner/GM/Manager combo in the sport.
The Texans? They aren't even in the conversation for upper half of their sport. Come on, let's get real.
Cletus wouldn't even be running a lemonade stand if it wasn't for Daddy's deep pockets. There literally is no GM. And buttchin is a college coach or an NFL assistant. He's in over his head and has been for 5 years.
I'd argue this is a trio that as it stands currently is arguably the worst in the league as opposed to the best of the best for the Astros.
I do feel like there is growth potential for Cal so I'll give Cal some time.
But 5 years in, BOB has shown little to no growth. Maybe this will magically be the year. As for the GM? There isn't one so who the hell knows.
Pharaohcious
Waterboy
Are you asking me to kill myself?
Seegara
Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
That picture reminds me of the ultimate challenge: Run down an escalator moving up while looking at your feet through reversed binoculars. Those who can do it are as rare as left-handed Astro pitchers.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Super Bowl or bust? How about not getting embarrassed in a 1st round home playoff game or bust?
The Astros were in a unique situation where there was just nothing in the cupboard. They almost had to strip it down and start over. And whether you agree with it or not, they came in with a plan and executed that plan to perfection.
Daryl Morey? Believe me, I have my doubts regarding him partly because of what has been mentioned already, 12 years, not even a Finals appearance, partly because he can get fixated on a player so much that by the time he is able to get his guy it's too late, but at least he always has the Rockets competitive and in championship contention. It's just unfortunate he's had to go up against one of the great dynasties in the game the last few years.
The Texans? They give a 4 year extension to a coach coming off a 4-12 season. They not only settle for a GM because they were declined Caserio the 1st time around, they settle on him for 5 years! 18 months later they're done with that, botch the 2nd attempt at Caserio, now come out with this flatter run organization bullshit to try and save face. They finally get some tackles drafted high in the draft for an o-line that has been in need for years, and those tackles look like they'll be playing guard instead. I guess we'll find out for sure in the 3rd quarter of the Saints game? They draft a bunch of TEs when they used the position the 5th least in the league last year...what the hell are they doing down there on Kirby? I want to believe that someone in those offices are picking up the phone and at least inquiring about Williams and the public just doesn't know it. They HAVE to be calling, right? And the fact they have all this money to spend and aren't it's just AHHHHHH!! Need to save that money to sign Watson later? What's the point if he's losing lungs on the field??
The leagues may operate different, but you can clearly tell who has a plan and who doesn't. The Astros have their plan. Morey has his plan. What freaking plan are the Texans implementing?
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Not only did they have a plan but they hit on a lot their picks .
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
But they missed on some too. Aiken, Appel. Their plan didn't go off without some hurdles to jump, but they had a plan.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Aiken got them Bregman .
I understand all too well.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
I agree with you that the Astros had a plan and they stuck to that plan but the point is not about whether the Astros had a plan or not, its about how fans reacted to that plan. I fully remember during those losing years that they couldn't give tickets away and games were having to be blacked out on TV because attendance was so bad. I also remember people calling for heads after back to back 100 loss seasons and the nickname of Lastros. People can rewrite history all they want but fans were not on board with the plan the Astros had, they are just enjoying the results now.
I'm still not convinced that Gaine being fired had anything to do with Caserio or BoB or the draft or anything. The speed that happened and the way it happened still suggest to me something that was a PR or business decision not a football decision. And you can't trust the reports about it because they have changed depending on what else is going around. First reports said it was because they didn't draft Dillard, then it was because of the lawsuit and finally it was because of Caserio. The reporters are changing their story to fit whatever current events are and then claiming inside knowledge because otherwise their guess is no better than anyone else's. Hell for all we know Cal walked into his office to find Gaine naked and singing I'm a little teapot.
As far as the draft goes all reports say Dillard will sit the season out himself or at least not be the starter so how does that make him or the Eagles any different than Howard or the Texans? Frankly I don't think him or Howard were really worth a first round pick. That said though as has been talked about in another thread if they get a solid interior and Watson can step into the pocket then you don't need as elite at LT and RT because of how mobile a QB Watson is. Could be that's their plan, could be not, as you said we'll see come the game against the Saints. I do feel much better with Smith as the QB coach, that's a man that knows how to mold a QB with Watson's talent set so I think you will see a much more dangerous Watson this year if he can get 3 seconds to throw the ball.
TE wise Warring might shape up to be something special and if that's the case then it doesn't matter how many TEs we have he was worth the pick. I do agree with you about not liking how we have used the TEs but a very good argument could be made that we did use the TEs but not in the way that's tracked because we had to use them for blocking so much.
Agree entirely on Williams.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Of course nobody liked the plan. Nobody likes watching your team be the laughingstock of sports in general. Keep in mind this was also at a time where there was a new owner that nobody knew what to expect, and there was a league switch that people got their panties in a wad about. A lot going on there.
Difference was, the Astros told us all what the plan was. May not have liked it at the time, but we all knew what they were doing. When the time came for Crane to open up the pocketbook like he said he would, he did it. And is still doing it.
What have the Texans told us? They told us they wanted to get aligned. They got aligned, then turns out they weren’t, now they’re going with flatter, whatever that is.
You may be right about Gaine, but given this organizations track record, you can’t take them being totally incompetent off the board.
As for the draft, the issue to me isn’t Howard vs Dillard really, or where Howard ends up playing. You won’t convince me that Howard couldn’t have been taken later and that you could have ended up with both him and Dillard, or him and a CB, or something of that nature. They drafted him 23 not knowing from day one where he was going to play. That was right out of the mouth of Gaine.
The TEs, Warring may very well be special. My point there was, they had limited picks last year and used 2 on TE. Then they proceeded to use TE the 5th least in football. Another misuse of valuable draft picks when there’s more vital positions that need attention.
And through all of that, none of us still knows what direction the Texans are going. They draft tackles to play guard, they draft TEs they don’t use, they get a speed back (Miller) to ram up the middle, and now they don’t even have a freaking GM. What are they doing, where are they going, what’s the freaking plan??!
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Yes Crane opened up the pocket book but in MLB that means much more because there is no salary cap. Think it was Cak that pointed out that up till the last two years Texans have spent like 97% of their salary cap and it was only under Gaine that dropped to like 92%. Yes we have a lot of cap space this year but it was only a couple of years ago we were in cap hell and frankly with the stupid numbers teams like the Raiders were throwing at middle of the pack players this year I'm not at all upset we haven't been much of a player in F/A.
You kind of proved my point with talking about the Astros told us the plan. they told us and people still called for their heads, the Texans have told us nothing and people are still calling for their heads. Its a catch 22, if they tell us the plan then its a stupid plan and they should be fired and if they don't then they aren't sharing information and they should be fired. Frankly though what right do we have to know what their plan is? Texans, like all NFL teams except GB, is a privately owned group and doesn't have to tell anybody anything. Would you walk into a restaurant and demand they give you their recipes?
As for the draft I'm not trying to convince you on anything. I keep saying I don't think either Howard or Dillard was worth a 1st round pick and I wanted Brown to fill in when Fuller or Coutee next go down, Jacobs would have been good to. Frankly I think the Eagles overreached more than we did because Howard didn't cost us any extra draft capital, Dillard did and its looking like they still won't play him much this year. Also again why tell people "Oh yeah he's going to be our new LT so all you other teams break out the footage and stick your best rusher on LT because that's where he will be." People are acting like 23 draft spot is a big deal but as TK said we're not talking about a top 15, 23 is closer to round two than it is 1st overall and an elite guard for a decade at 23 is a good deal. If, instead, you got a LT at 23 then all the better.
Dejaview
All Pro
Yep they did have a designed PLAN and the right one. Can’t over emphasize the importance of the draft and wisely stockpiling draft choices, not throwing them away in dumbass trades. Look at the Colts...I believe 22 draft choices the last couple of years...scary. The true measure of the correctness of this path is to look at the Browns. They haven’t had a clue for years and stumbled recently into a sea of draft choices, now look at their roster. They are primed. It’s the proven choice whether you intend it or not.
Dejaview
All Pro
TE was just one of many major needs last year...pass pro and red zone. This year should show that was a wise move.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
I don't give a flying fuck how people react. I care about the trophy case having something in it. We could go on a Patriots 2 decade run and people will find something to bitch about. Screw them.
I remember not liking the $25M payrolls the Astros had and losing 100+ games a year, but I also knew they had to start over. I was skeptical, of course, but like I said, I didn't know anything about Crane and if he'd do what he said he'd do. So, OK, you say that's your plan, we'll see. Well, they've gone and done everything they said they would. They've earned my trust. The Texans, not so much.
And you're right, the Texans don't have to tell us shit. But you'd think that an organization that needs us to buy their tickets and merchandise and beer and nachos, would point us in some kind of direction. They choose not to and that's why they're behind the Astros and Rockets in the give a damn factor right now.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Should is the key word there. We'll see. The Texans haven't earned that trust.