EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
I was waiting for TX to legalize Mary J....
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"The play on the field is a direct reflection of coaching"
- Thread starter Double Barrel
- Start date
I was waiting for TX to legalize Mary J....
speedfreek
All Pro
While I agree with your statement about the biophysical and kinesiological aspects of over training,
I have a hard time believing the strength and conditioning coach has anywhere near the
level of authority to force these veteran pro athletes to do anything that they would feel
would hurt their gameday preparation.
For example, JJ Watt has not performed nearly at the superman levels of last year.
If the S&T coach confronts JJ Watt and tells him he needs to train harder in his
physical conditioning routine -- and JJ tells him to fk off, how exactly is the S&T coach
going to force his will?
He can't.
This isn't about the mechanics of overtraining. This is about the absurdity that an S&T coach
would have the ability to force multi-year, multi-million dollar players to exert themselves
beyond the levels that they feel comfortable with.
These guys have been trained in middle school, high-school, college, and the pros -- they
know what their limits are. And there is no way they are going to let an expendable
position coach (like S&T) do anything to jeopardize their level of performance on the
field.
I just can't believe that. Specially not with the new CBA. I just don't buy it..
I have a hard time believing the strength and conditioning coach has anywhere near the
level of authority to force these veteran pro athletes to do anything that they would feel
would hurt their gameday preparation.
For example, JJ Watt has not performed nearly at the superman levels of last year.
If the S&T coach confronts JJ Watt and tells him he needs to train harder in his
physical conditioning routine -- and JJ tells him to fk off, how exactly is the S&T coach
going to force his will?
He can't.
This isn't about the mechanics of overtraining. This is about the absurdity that an S&T coach
would have the ability to force multi-year, multi-million dollar players to exert themselves
beyond the levels that they feel comfortable with.
These guys have been trained in middle school, high-school, college, and the pros -- they
know what their limits are. And there is no way they are going to let an expendable
position coach (like S&T) do anything to jeopardize their level of performance on the
field.
I just can't believe that. Specially not with the new CBA. I just don't buy it..
I probably wasn't as clear, I think its a combination of O'Brien and the SC coach. O'Brien is reportedly tough on the players, and has reportedly created a collegiate atmosphere. If O'Brien tells guys they need to get workouts in, I be shocked if they were disobeying the HC. If BOB decides they are going to work harder in practice because they have been so crappy in games, the players aren't going to argue with him. Couple that with a workout program that might be overly strenuous(Im speculating on this) and you create a situation where the athlete isn't functioning at his highest level. This isn't about overtraining, CNS fatigue and "overtraining" can be different things. I have a pro beach volleyball player that I train that has a 40" VJ, because he puts out so much energy when he jumps, his overall volume has to be kept down or he's fried the next day. He trains with another player that is a good athlete but no where near his level. The second guy can handle twice the volume the first guy can because he doesn't put out as much energy per jump as the first guy. I've had to kick the first guy out of the gym to keep him from over working during jump training sessions because he wants to keep training. We are all taught hard work produces results, however they are times when that hard work can negatively effect the athlete as a whole. It's great if you produce results in the gym, but if the on the field product suffers then all that hard work has been for naught. We all know the on the field product has been poor. I can also tell you with out a doubt, these guys more than likely do not know what their limits are.
Just to be clear, I do not think the SC has the authority to overwork players, but I believe BOB does. We've heard reports that the players are tiring of his act, maybe this is part of it.
Just to be clear, I do not think the SC has the authority to overwork players, but I believe BOB does. We've heard reports that the players are tiring of his act, maybe this is part of it.
Oh, I don't know, maybe whip out a sword and go full blown Seppuku with it.
Short of that, maybe an epic coaching meltdown, like Denny Green or Jim Mora. At least it would be entertaining.
Okay, too much to ask, how about just calling his players out for being professionals that cannot comprehend basic concepts like angle of pursuit and simple tackling techniques. Admit that his QB decisions have been a clusterf*ck and none of these QBs are worth a crap. Perhaps just go the extra step beyond saying that they have to figure out how to coach these guys and admit that he's freakin' clueless right now. Admit that play calling on both sides of the ball has been amateur and none of the coaching decisions are putting their players in a position to actually be competitive. Admit that he's lost his team.
But, I get it, coach speak. Bland, without accountability or details, and "doing the right thing" by deflecting blame from everyone that deserves blame. Because, you know, these are professionals and all, so they cannot handle criticism when it is well deserved.
This entire organization should be embarrassed to call themselves professionals. Perhaps O'Brien should have just apologized.
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
Concerning the strength coach, it's not a matter of authority, it's a matter of guidance.
If he's not allowing ample rest and recharging, he's over training. And that seems to be a college mindset of focusing on bulking kids up. The fact that Clowney is 15 pounds heavier when his key ability was his quickness may be evidence of that.
If he's not allowing ample rest and recharging, he's over training. And that seems to be a college mindset of focusing on bulking kids up. The fact that Clowney is 15 pounds heavier when his key ability was his quickness may be evidence of that.
Was listening to Duane Brown get asked about the O-Line moves on the drive home yesterday. He danced around it very uncomfortably.
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
The difference is that those guys were given time to learn their natural positions first, then build chemistry. O'Brien came in thinking he could just replicate the same success through will power.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Yes, because that is exactly what happened with terrible coaches like Jimmy Johnson, Pete Carroll, Chip Kelly, and the Harbaugh brothers.
Scooter
Funky
Yes, because that is exactly what happened with terrible coaches like Jimmy Johnson, Pete Carroll, Chip Kelly, and the Harbaugh brothers.
Jimmy I'll give you, though he only lasted 7 years in the NFL. Carroll had 15 years in the NFL before going to the Seahawks. Chip Kelly is blowing up the Eagles by trying to turn them into a college team. John was going into his 10th season with the Eagles when the Ravens hired him. Jim had a 14 year NFL career before getting into coaching.
Unlike the above coaches who had NFL experience as well as success at the college levels, Bill had all of 4 years in the NFL and a career of coaching small schools who's records got WORSE during his time there.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Well, if we're doing this by halves, the Texans record is 6-7-1. Yeah, that is a lot better than 2-5. You go Bill!!!!
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
My post was not meant to be any real defense for OB. It was more in defense of the blanket statement I had quoted suggesting that "any" college coach you hire is going to bring a college atmosphere that will be negative and ineffective as it was stated. Sure, there have been plenty of instances where it has appeared that way and coaches have failed pretty badly and went right back to college, but not all of them have. Harbaugh came right out of Stanford, and took an under performing Niners team to great levels right away. Carroll did as well. Those are recent examples of guys that came from college and accomplished a lot in a short span of time, and didn't bring this "college way" to the pros like it was suggested. If they did, it sure as hell was. Chip Kelly was pretty successful right out the gate going to the playoffs in his first two seasons having to use a trio of QB's in a two year span with pretty substantial roster turnovers in between. What he did last off season was pretty horrific and questionable for sure though. I didn't understand any of his moves, and the results are not happening well for them on the field. If Kelly wouldn't have gone nuts, I think his offensive principals and strategies work just fine. His choices of personal seem to have been what caused the avalanche for him this year. Well, that and a lot of it has to do with Sam "Badford's" continuous INT's he won't stop throwing. The season is still young though, and the Eagles could possibly still make a run at some point.
I get the notion, and it has happened in many cases. Seems to be happening on the Texans. I'm just saying it isn't as black and white as Speedy tried to paint it with his post.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
I think the biggest difference is that they have Tom Brady and a well run team.
Oline shuffling is not something I like at all. But I think when you have a good/great team you can do a lot of things and get away with it.
The Texans aren't well coached and they don't have a single qb on the roster that even inspires an inkling of hope.
When you have shitty qb's behind a jumbled oline it's going to look really bad. I can see shuffling one or two positions, but not 4 or 5. That's madness.
That means almost the entire oline is constantly having to work through some awkwardness which involves both mental and physical hurdles.
Even just going from left to right is something that takes some adjustment. Changing down to guard or out to tackle is a completely new world. And then the communication you develop with the guy next to you is out of the window.
There are a lot of moves that make me want OB gone, however this is just one more thing that makes me believe that he doesn't really understand football at all levels, or he's flat out ignoring basic things because he believes he has "the gift" or something. Like he has the special sauce to make the dish work even though he's mixing pig feet and dog vomit.
He's gotta take a step back and realize this team isn't that good and he's not coaching Jesus and his assistants aren't the freaking wise men.
McNair is not firing this clown, so the only hope I can have as a fan right now is that he improves as a coach. It's a shame that it might take a clusterfuck of a season, but if he ultimately learns from it, so be it.
Meanwhile I'm getting mentally prepared to watch these Rockets tonight. Win, lose or draw I at least believe they have people in charge that understand the landscape of the sport they are working in.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
OB should go with the every play is a season mantra.
Maybe then by the end of a series some guys will be in their contract year or beyond and be playing for that next one.
Well said, man. I'm a firm believer of the philosophy that games are won in the trenches. And as part of that perspective, it is widely understood that the longer an offensive line has to work with each other, the better they will be as a unit.
What is going on with the Texans right now spits in the face of that time proven wisdom. Like you said, O'Brien either doesn't understand this basic concept (which I would be shocked if this was the case), or - and most likely - he believes that his coaching style can ignore basic concepts and overcome through scheme and/or instruction and/or whatever.
Regardless of the mentality behind it, sending out barely mediocre QBs behind a Swiss cheese revolving line is complete folly.
I'm just a fan, so I'm not going to act like I have all the answers. However, as a fan, I have a fairly decent understanding of football history. What I do not get is the...arrogance, I guess, of disregarding decades of concepts that have been developed and tested by some of the greatest football minds in history. If a revolving line and platoon QB were feasible, it would have been implemented with success and copied many decades ago. But, history reveals the exact opposite, that these concepts have been tried repeatedly and always fail. I do not understand a modern NFL head coach doing things that have no chance of success based on football history. It is myopic, to say the least.
No concept should be implemented if it requires a HoF QB to work and you don't have a HoF QB available.
Then there's the Defense......
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
This is my thing...We can talk all night long about the offense's issues and the qb situation.......but this defense to me is the bigger problem imo. Sooo much has been spent on it over the years in terms of actual money & draft picks & at this very moment they look to be amongst the worst in the league on all levels.
I'm a team guy & believe that while the qb is the most important position on the team, a soundly built team should be the priority over all b/c qb or no qb you can still compete & win games if at least 1 side of the ball is elite. As i look at this team now, do we have at least 1 solid positional group where we don't need much help at? I mean we are terrible EVERYWHERE.
No doubt about it. Defense has got to be THE most disappointing aspect of this season. Not only do they seem constantly out of position - which points to bad play calling and schemes - but the players themselves seem slow to react, unable to swarm the ball, unmotivated to create turnovers, and perhaps worst of all, fail at basic fundamentals like angle of pursuit and TACKLING. Truly pathetic when you consider they are professionals out there.
I think we should put together an all TexansTalk group to replace the current regime.
GM - Texian; he wants the job and hell he couldn't possibly be worse.
Head Coach - Thorn; because a Head Coach should cuss and not give a sh!t what anyone thinks.
OC - xtruroyaltyx; has a much better understanding of football than anyone on the Texans staff.
DC - infantrycak; someone needs to make these MF's meaner!
Special Teams - powerfuldragon; because dragons eat people.
Medical staff- CnD; goes without saying.
QB - norg; because he'd play a lot smarter than we've seen this season.
Cheerleader inspections - that's my job, but I am taking resumes for an assistant!
GM - Texian; he wants the job and hell he couldn't possibly be worse.
Head Coach - Thorn; because a Head Coach should cuss and not give a sh!t what anyone thinks.
OC - xtruroyaltyx; has a much better understanding of football than anyone on the Texans staff.
DC - infantrycak; someone needs to make these MF's meaner!
Special Teams - powerfuldragon; because dragons eat people.
Medical staff- CnD; goes without saying.
QB - norg; because he'd play a lot smarter than we've seen this season.
Cheerleader inspections - that's my job, but I am taking resumes for an assistant!
I've got to defend the OL shuffling. That's been due, in large part, to injuries. Other than that, I agree with pretty much everything you said.
Remember Belichick's 1st couple of years in Cleveland? Not great, but damn he sure learned his lesson! Hopefully OB can do the same thing if he isn't going to get fired.
speedfreek
All Pro
Yes, because Bill Obrien won multiple Natty's, or played in them -- or made appearances in the (or
won) a superbowl.
Comparing the guys you listed to BoB is like comparing Brian Hoyer to Joe Montana, John Elway, Dan Marino, and Terry Bradshaw/Roger Staubach
won) a superbowl.
Comparing the guys you listed to BoB is like comparing Brian Hoyer to Joe Montana, John Elway, Dan Marino, and Terry Bradshaw/Roger Staubach
Yes, because that is exactly what happened with terrible coaches like Jimmy Johnson, Pete Carroll, Chip Kelly, and the Harbaugh brothers.
"Nobody talks about theHouston Texans because nobody thinks we're gonna win. And the disrespect that they show our quarterbacks? I'm tired of that, too. Because both those kids can play. They just need a chance and one of them is going to get it. Enough is enough. Every player that is out there -- all 90 players -- are players that I want for the 2015 season. When you f------ guys show up to practice tomorrow, they better be ready to f------ go."
Bill Obrian.
Bill Obrian.
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
Hervoyel
BUENO!
All you left for me was "Owner".
OK, I'll take it if I must.
By the way I'm firing all of you and going the "backup a truck of money to Eliot Wolf's house and then go looking for a HC route"
Hervoyel
BUENO!
You know, every October my stepson brings his family to Houston for a couple of weeks and we have a great time with the grandkids. They live in Indianapolis and so obviously, "Colts fan". Despite this we get along great and this year he came into town laughing about Hard Knocks. Everything was "We need some JUICE!" and "I want to see some JUICE". Basically he said "Obrian" sounds like some high school coach/PE teacher and called him a joke.
I really didn't have anything to say in response. What can I say? He's right. Hard Knocks did more damage to OB's image than anything else (OK, well all the stupid decisions didn't help) because it showed us what he really does all day at work and I really just can't blame anyone on that team for not taking this guy seriously. I don't anymore.
FuzzyLogic
Mathematically Possible
When you win your are a genius and an innovator... if you do it and lose you are an idiot, just the way analyst and well most folks are.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Our safeties, with Raheem Moore being the worst of all of them. Moore has been the worst FA signing since Reed, imo. If he's not biting on PA he's taking bogus angles and missing tackles. Three years later and Glover Quin continues to be dearly missed
Belichick actually set the Browns up for the future, and I have no doubt he would have had success if Modell had not moved the team. If you look at it objectively, Belichick established the foundation for what would eventually become the Super Bowl champion Ravens.
Check out the episode of A Football Life called "Cleveland '95", and it really sheds some light on it.
Here's a solid article, too: To understand Belichick, look what he did with Browns
I agree completely. IMO, the three most important aspects of a team and where the money should go is QB, offensive line, and secondary. And this team does not seem to value 2.5 out of the 3. We have a great LT and good CBs, but the rest are so below average that there should not be any surprise that the team is crappy right now.
Lol
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
This is just you babbling on about how you don't like OB. Nothing new.
OB's lack of success this season has nothing at all to do with what other coaches from college have done in the past or what others might do in the future. I listed several examples of other previous college coaches to refute your blanket statement that was obviously wrong. If you read my post, you'd realize it had nothing to do with whether they're comparable to OB success wise. You were discussing styles of coaching and made it seem like any college coach would be a disaster. You were wrong.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
WHy are you posting this to take shots at OB? Hell, you were just as enthusiastic as he was about the QB situation and was a lot more vicious towards anyone who questioned it than anything he ever said.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
And that's what I called "insight." I am now, for the first time, confident that there will be immediate turnaround.
Showtime100
Got JJ?
We need to send O'Brien to the showers. Second thought, he's from Penn State. Maybe we just get rid of him.
Ok you need to stop with this ****. I was never happy about the qb situation no matter how hard you try and Make it that way. I've felt Hoyer was trash from get go. Hated mallets personality but was hopeful he could improve with playing time because it was obvious he needed a lot of improvement.
That's been my stance since day 1. So stop making **** up it just makes you look stupider than you already looked.
I've given you the chance in multiple post to back up your ignorant bs about me and you passed because you know you're full of ****.
Your boy Hoyer you begged for didn't even have a first down until in the last 2 minutes of the first half. TRASH!!!!! Just like your post. You got your wish and now he is failing miserably just like you.
You made your bed with hoyer now lay in it. If you hadn't been so in love with hoyer and hated mallet so much you would of been able to see that our only hope of having a decent qb this year was if Mallet developed into one.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Kids. I have a fly swatter up here. Don't make me reach back and hit you.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Very disappointed that RAC is still here for sure.
Too late to change schemes on either side of the ball, but a different approach to things couldn't hurt.
I haven't completely given up on OBrien ...yet... but I hope he doesn't choose to go down with the ship.
Nobody gets it completely right the first time. ( except the boss
) Hope he is a quick study. Make changes...soon.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Very disappointed that RAC is still here for sure.
Too late to change schemes on either side of the ball, but a different approach to things couldn't hurt.
I haven't completely given up on OBrien ...yet... but I hope he doesn't choose to go down with the ship.
Nobody gets it completely right the first time. ( except the boss
Hope he is a quick study. Make changes...soon.
I don't know that any real significant changes will or can occur before the bye.
Hervoyel never played football & he is smarter than McNair & Smith put together.....I'M SERIOUS....this is a great post & he makes some great common sense points that are not complicated. And he has the balls to say right up front...look guys I didn't play football....but here's how I see it.....and lays down some very valid observations.Props & respect Bro....Football is not rocket science....You don't have to excell at calculus, you don't have to land a man on the moon & you don't have to figure out how the hell to get him back to earth.
As an Owner...You have to have some common sense, some experience & skill with management team building, the savy to surround yourself with people who are much smarter than you when it comes to "managing & developing" a successful NFL franchise. (I'm assuming you already possess leadership qualities if your a freakin billionaire)...Exceptional networking skills & a big ass pile of money.
Part of me agrees with u & part of me says they'll wait till end of season ( less publicized in off season).....but truthfully....I don't really have a freakin clue W/these guys WHEN or WHAT they'll do next....One thing we can ALL say they've been consistent on is.......not being consistent
LOL......some of the funniest post are the truest.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
That could be true, but if its ex players, then how accurate is that really?
Personally, I'd say that it looks like he lost them based on the way that they played last week. The effort was one of the worst I've seen in any football game.