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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread
- Thread starter Marshall
- Start date
Raise your hand if you wanted to trade Clowney for a 3rd & pay half his salary.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
The deal wasn't ideal, but Martin has come on as of late as he has gotten more time on the field; he was big in Saturday's game. The 3rd we got we flipped for Conley & he too has been balling for us. Even Mingo has been a contributor. That last pressure on Allen, Mingo was closing fast on him. I don't think anyone can say anything about the deal at this point, except those with an axe to grind.
Like draft picks, year 3 may tell an entirely different story
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Even if it were a RB, it wouldn't matter........he lowered his head to spear helmet to helmet...........no way he couldn't lift his head before impact.
NFL
USE OF THE HELMET – RULE 12, SECTION 2, ARTICLE 8
The Rule: As approved by NFL clubs in March [2018], it is a foul if a player lowers his head to initiate and make contact with his helmet against an opponent. Contact does not have to be to an opponent’s head or neck area – lowering the head and initiating contact to an opponent’s torso, hips, and lower body, is also a foul. Violations of the rule will be easier to see and officiate when they occur in open space – as opposed to close line play – but this rule applies anywhere on the field at any time. Penalties for Violation: Loss of 15 yards. If the foul is by the defense, it is also an automatic first down. The player may also be ejected. Ejection standards:
1. Player lowers his helmet to establish a linear body posture prior to initiating and making contact with the helmet
2. Unobstructed path to his opponent
3. Contact [helmet] clearly avoidable and player delivering the blow had other options
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
As far as the Clowney hit on Wentz, Wentz should have been taken to the medical tent immediately and examined for a concussion. As it was, he played a couple of plays and then came back to the bench and it wasn't until he volunteered that he was experiencing concussion symptoms that he was finally examined by the medical staff and removed from the game. Unfortunately, NFL safety and the Concussion Protocol continue to be an sham.
True dat C&D, but do you also think maybe the Eagles coaching staff had at least an inkling of the distress that Wentz was experiencing but staying alive and advancing in the P/Os was their #1 priority ?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Possible, but it's the responsibility of the medical staff and the NFL eye in the sky spotters to identify situations that are suspicious for concussion.
The deal ended up better than I thought it would
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
At least the League office is consistent in supporting poor decisions/oversights made by their on-field refs........they stand by the incidental contact call........that's what I really call co-INCIDENTAL...........
[have not spoken to any football people that would have ever come close to classifying the hit as incidental]
Watch this round table discussion:
[have not spoken to any football people that would have ever come close to classifying the hit as incidental]
Watch this round table discussion:
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Sorry, I just don't see how JD led with his helmet
Did you not watch the play?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Clowney met all 3 criteria for ejection, let alone for penalty and fine.
Intent has never been a criteria except for determining suspensions.
Incidental helmet to helmet is still a penalty.
A friend taped it and I watched real time. Real time or slowed motion, there was helmet to helmet contact. Clowney watched Wentz with his head up while Wentz was almost prostrate to the ground, and it wasn't until then that he lowered his head/helmet.
Officiating this year has been terrible...........but when egregious calls on the field are missed, the New York League officials have been even worse in honestly evaluating and reversing them. Little wonder there is so much talk throughout the country of the fix being in.
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texan279
Hall of Fame
First time I've seen this play. At minimum should have been a penalty. Looks pretty intentional to me. Horrible no call.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Again, intent has never been a criteria except when considering if the punishment includes suspension. The rule does not specifically make any exceptions for shoulder contact first then head contact. It strictly relates to helmet to helmet contact. The rule is meant to protect both players from concussion and spinal injuries.
The new rules make no distinction between a receiver or a runner when receiving a helmet to helmet hit. The revised rule only applies to the runner no longer being an exception to lowering his head and delivering a blow using his helmet as a weapon against a defender (which had long been allowed)............he now plays under the same rules as all other players.
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KoolAid Sipper
AFCEVET
I understand your point, but I think this is getting more exposure because it was a QB even though he was a runner at the time. JD should have been penalized for unnecessary roughness but I don't think it was fine nor suspension worthy (he received neither). Wentz was going down, not upright, not breaking a tackle etc, so JD should have just fell on him and not drove his shoulder which led to the incidental helmet contact IMO.
Aren't players always fined when they get an unnecessary roughness penalty? And sometimes after the fact even if no penalty
KoolAid Sipper
AFCEVET
No and Yes...Unnecessary roughness I believe is just 15yds and automatic 1st down. Ejection is possible if the penalty is deemed flagrant by the officials. The league can come back and fine even if no penalty was called. I think they also send the player a video of the infraction explaining why.
I recall seeing lots of fines announced mid-week or later
We sure could have used him today.
texan279
Hall of Fame
He's made some plays tonight for sure.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Wow.....that sounds familiar.
texan279
Hall of Fame
“I just want to win,” Clowney said, via Joe Fann of NBCSportsNorthwest.com. “I want to get that Super Bowl, by any means. That’s what I’m looking for. Who’s going to get me there? I’m not looking to get on no sorry team for no money. That ain’t gonna fly.
“I’m not going to fight through all that just to lose 16 games and go home with my check. I hate that. That ain’t what I’m doing. If I can’t do that — I’m not going to no team that can’t win.”
“I’m not going to fight through all that just to lose 16 games and go home with my check. I hate that. That ain’t what I’m doing. If I can’t do that — I’m not going to no team that can’t win.”
Jadeveon Clowney wants to play for a contender
Now that he’s had a taste of postseason success, Jadeveon Clowney wants more. The veteran defensive end, who spent the year with Seattle after coming over in trade from the Texans, said he ha…
profootballtalk.nbcsports.com
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Clowney to have surgery within the next week. The World According to Clowney evidently revolves around Clowney.
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PapaL
Loose Screw
When it’s his career, his free agency, his legacy who else should his world revolve around?
Why are you big mad he wants to play for a contender?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
How about "I want to help a team get to the SB"?
Texazan
Our HOF 34
I’m not a big Clowney fan but I’m pretty sure that he didn’t mean “I want a free ride“. Clowney stating that money alone ain’t enough implies he’s willing to work hard to be part of a great team and get to the SB.
PapaL
Loose Screw
How about not? I know you swore his knee would implode by now but it hasn’t. You can lay off the guy for wanting to win and maximizing his limited time in the league. That’s all player’s goals.
Tweet from @byAlistairCorp: Jadeveon Clowney had the 2nd best pressure rate of his career in 2019, despite getting doubled at the 3rd highest rate among EDGEs in the NFL and playing nearly half the season with a core injury.
Here's two minutes of him being the most physically imposing player on the field: https://t.co/ZIsiCb4nEB
Here's two minutes of him being the most physically imposing player on the field: https://t.co/ZIsiCb4nEB
Well I am a big Clowney fan and I appreciate his candor.
He's interested in maximizing and realizing his profit potential and as a gung-ho capitalist I've always shared that philosophy.
Oh and he also wants a Super Bowl ring.
One more thing - his honesty rules out a career in diplomacy after his NFL career is over. So what ?
PapaL
Loose Screw
30 trades that shaped the NFL season: Barnwell ranks from worst to first
Ryan Tannehill turned around a franchise, and a few other former Dolphins have shaken up the league. These are the trades that shaped the season.
www.espn.com
3. The Seahawks pay half price for a star edge rusher
Seahawks trade: 2020 third-round pick, LBs Jacob Martin and Barkevious Mingo
Texans trade: DE Jadeveon Clowney
Houston's decision to trade one season of Clowney for a third-round pick and two backup linebackers while throwing in $7 million in cash remains bizarre. The Texans likely could have netted more for Clowney via trade by franchising him a second time this offseason. They could have sorely used Clowney during the divisional round, when he produced a dominant display against the Packerswhile a banged-up Texans pass rush was mostly anonymous against the Chiefs. (Mingo did block a punt, while the Texans appear to have used this third-round pick to acquire a cornerback in Gareon Conley.)
Clowney again looked better on film and by advanced metrics than by his raw sack total, which numbered just three in 13 games. The former first overall pick racked up 10 tackles for loss and forced four fumbles. He finished second in the pass rush win rate metric, suggesting he was consistently creating pressure. The Seahawks posted a pressure rate of nearly 25% with Clowney in the lineup, but it fell to a league-worst mark just below 20% when he was unavailable. Clowney's best games of the season also came in critical moments, including the midseason win over the 49ers and his playoff performances against the Eagles and Packers.
The trade also impacted the rest of the league, as the terms of the deal barred the Seahawks from using the franchise tag on Clowney for a second time. He has publicly suggested that he wants to play for a winner, and he turned down a trade to the Dolphins before the season, but whichever winner wants to add Clowney will need to pay up. Few pass-rushers with Clowney's upside ever hit the market unfettered by tags or serious recent injuries at age 26. Bill O'Brien's mistake has already been Seattle's gain. Soon, it could be somebody else's too.
Impact grade: A-
@byAlistairCorp: After Jadeveon Clowney’s trade to Seattle, leaks from the Texans suggested they were glad to be rid of a lazy player who didn’t contribute to a winning culture.
What the Seahawks got was a tireless defender, a warrior, and a perfect culture fit: https://t.co/SmxZEqqspo
What the Seahawks got was a tireless defender, a warrior, and a perfect culture fit: https://t.co/SmxZEqqspo
PapaL
Loose Screw
Aren’t you the one that says stats don’t tell the whole story? If you think Clowney’s impact on the Seahawks defense was just 3 sacks, you have bigger delusional problems.
How many games did he miss and how many games was he ineffective due to injury?
I'm not saying Clowney isn't a very good player. I'm just saying he's not worth the $$$$ he's going to be asking for and probably will get from a team willing to bet on his upside. A bad bet with Clowney's injury history. IMHO
Texazan
Our HOF 34
Well dont look now but looks like the rest of the league may just agree with you, haha of course they do
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...deveon-clowney-hasnt-found-market-he-expected
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
********************************
Clowney had been (and still may be) seeking a $20MM annual salary, but it’s unclear if any club is willing to meet that asking price. The 27-year-old is now reportedly open to a one- or two-year pact, as Jeremy Fowler of ESPN.com reported Wednesday, adding that many around the NFL now believe Clowney will re-sign with the Seahawks.
Speaking on NFL Network earlier today, Mike Garafolo and Tom Pelissero indicated Clowney does have an offer on the table from Seattle, but it doesn’t meet the pass-rusher’s requirements for salary or length. Clowney, meanwhile, is reportedly hoping that rival clubs will express interest and pressure the Seahawks into raising their offer.
Seattle is likely proposing something in the range of $17-19MM per year, according to Bob Condotta of the Seattle Times, who adds Clowney’s health issues are likely a factor in his weak market. While Clowney’s January core muscle surgery typically wouldn’t be viewed as much of a barrier to a deal, COVID-19 restrictions currently prevent him from taking a proper physical.
LINK
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I don't think its COVID-19, its his injury history and the fact that he ain't putting up the numbers he needs to to justify paying him more... plain and simple. Advance stats my ass. In this situation, you see how much weight "pass rusher pressure rate" is worth....folks around here have been trying to use that stat to try to pump up is value...Seems like the NFL ain't buying ish..
He needs to play more than 2 great games a year..period.
I've heard that someplace before haven't you C&D ?
JDC is dam good and I wish we still had him, but he's apparently not as valuable to anybody as he seems to think he should be ?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
The Seahawks have offered him $18.5 million x 2 years (guarantee not noted). Meanwhile, while Clowney laments not being offered much more, Seattle is showing significant interest in newly-released Vikings 4-time Pro Bowl DE, Everson Griffen who at age 32 in 15 games last season logged 41 tackles, 48 pressures, 8 sacks (then an additional 1.5 in the post season), 2 PDs and 1 INT. He has had 3 double-digit sack seasons to go with it, compared to Clowney who has yet to have 1. No doubt, his price tag can be expected to be significantly lower that Clowney's.
Looks like the Clown man ain't worth what he was asking from the Texans. There seems to be an ongoing theme here.
There's no way in he** I would pay Clown man that type of $$$$ knowing his injury history and given his production. Now he's asking for that $$$$ without the team being able to give him a physical. LMAO
As PT Barnum once said, there's a sucker born everyday. and this is from (Me) a guy who thought they should've kept Clown man last yr.
There's no way in he** I would pay Clown man that type of $$$$ knowing his injury history and given his production. Now he's asking for that $$$$ without the team being able to give him a physical. LMAO
As PT Barnum once said, there's a sucker born everyday. and this is from (Me) a guy who thought they should've kept Clown man last yr.
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CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Several sources referring to the Seahawk's $18 million offer have reported that "no teams have been willing to approach that threshold to this point" and there is serious doubt that Seattle will keep that offer on the table.
Clown man better strike while the iron is hot or he will be left out in the cold.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
********************************
Here is an in depth look at what is going on with Clowney and his potential contract situation..........I wouldn't say that this is going the way Clowney had figured.
If Clowney considers short-term deal, does that favor the Seahawks?
BY BRANDON GUSTAFSON
MARCH 21, 2020 AT 4:34 PM